What do you think of late stage capitalism where companies won't even help the police without payment?

[Juxtapose]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2023/02/28/volkswagen-car-net-abducted-child-gps-subscription-expired/amp/

This would be a bit unrealistic to me in a fictional book but I guess it's reality now. Wow.

[genericname85]

what do you mean "late stage" capitalism? as if capitalism had "stages" (the only source that mentiones stages of capitalism is the Marxist manifesto... are you a freaking communist?) and as if companies in any system would help the police outside of legal boundaries.

[Juxtapose]

A 2 minute Google search proved you wrong.

"Late capitalism, late-stage capitalism, or end-stage capitalism is a term first used in print by German economist Werner Sombart around the turn of the 20th century."

[Juxtapose]

Are you serious? Do you really think the company should not have helped? The company response to this says differently and they even lay blame upon a third party so even they know better than you do.

[genericname85]

oh so you're saying that werner sombart isn't a freaking socialist? xD

a company has no interst in doing the polices job. a companies purpose is to generate profit or value for it's members and customrs. not to prosecute criminals. in fact helping prosecuting certain criminals can be in direct violation of their purpose of generating profit.

in a functionally differenciated society it makes no sense whatsoever for a company to help the police do their job.

[genericname85]

only in a communist system would companies and police be the same entity. cause there's no provate ownership.

[genericname85]

so you're a commie... good for you xD

[Juxtapose]

No, he's a Marxist (big difference) and was not involved with the specific book you mentioned. You are still wrong.

So you think holding where a kidnapped child is hostage behind a paywall is cool? You're fucked up.

You're a sociopath, congratulations.

[genericname85]

oh. so you're following ideologies that hitler, stalin, mao and moussolini were following but i'm the sociopath :D ok dude.

[Juxtapose]

So Stalin was a classical liberal in the same vein as the founding fathers of America?

[Part2603]

In case you didn't know, it was actually Marx himself that invented the word "capitalism" since he was critiquing the status quo and he needed a retronym for it. Also Marx predates Sombart, so there.

This story, or perhaps the way you're framing it, sounds like propaganda. You make it sound like the call center operator was holding the data hostage behind a paywall, when I wouldn't be surprised if actually procedures were in place to immediately comply and that Volkswagen then sent the police department a bill in the mail afterwards.

After all it's hard to say they "didn't cooperate" when they did in fact cooperate. There are procedures to follow and insisting that people follow the procedures does NOT mean they're not cooperating.

After all, if you phone your professor and say, I'm sick I'm gonna need a reschedule of the upcoming test, and he says, "Okay, I'm gonna need a doctor's note." and then you don't give him the doctor's note, can you really accuse him of "not cooperating"? When the police ask to question you and you insist on time to prepare and hire a lawyer, are you being uncooperative? Or are you just following procedure?

[Juxtapose]

@Part2603 I can tell you didn't actually look into the story because you don't know how it went down.

The cops call to get the coordinates, the third party the corporation hired to deal with the coordinates acted inappropriately and demanded to be paid before providing the coordinates. All the companies involved say that the person that denied the police the coordinates was acting inappropriately and they are being investigated.

The coordinates to a kidnapped child was literally paywalled by an employee in this third party company.

[Juxtapose]

Kind of rich coming from the guy literally living in a socialist country.

I specifically told you I am a classical liberal. Do not know what that is?

[Part2603]

Ok, so if the companies involved say the person was acting inappropriately then it wasn't the company, it wasn't "late stage capitalism", it was a rogue employee.

[Juxtapose]

@Part2603 that's if you were the precious sort of person that believes everything the companies say.

Remember, there are places in the USA where they will let your house burn down if you don't pay the fire department annually.

[Part2603]

Newsflash: CNN is a "company" too, dummy.

If I were to steelman your argument, maybe I'd say "Capitalism causes perverse incentives that allows sociopathic behavior in the individual actors in capitalist institutions."

The problem with that assessment is that it's simplistic. The typical socialist panacea to this is to dismantle capitalism and take away everybody's freedom to own property and work a job without also being a stock holder and board member in the day to day administration of said business.

Because property = sin or some nonsense like that.

If you understood anything at all, you'd understand that capitalism and it's associated mechanisms such as investment, loans, wage labor, supply and demand, market research, market competition, and decentralized business actors are necessary for our quality of life.

"Capitalism" is no more the "root cause of exploitation" than frat parties are the root cause of date rape. To say one is the consequence of the other is highly reductive, and negates the personal responsibility of the individual actors. Holding actual people accountable for their actual crimes or policy violations is much more useful at addressing the issue than railing against the institutions that by your own admission, already have policies that explicitly prohibit bad behavior in the first place.

[Juxtapose]

I can criticize late stage capitalism and still be for capitalism in general. Kind of a silly thing to assume I don't.

[Part2603]

Ah! Typical double speaking leftist. "I don't oppose capitalism, I just believe that capitalism is a transitory system that will eventually be replaced by all the things that are diametrically opposite to it."

🤣

Bro, I know your pilpul. Do you or do you not believe that the solution to one bad actor in the Volkswagen corporation violating corporate policy is to transition into a "stateless, classless, moneyless society"?

[Juxtapose]

I am a classical liberal you weirdo.

"Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; civil liberties under the rule of law with especial emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech."

[Part2603]

So, no?
Glad to hear it.

[Soteris]

That is not late stage capitalism. Not truly. Go back in time where you had to hire private fire fighters and private law enforcement yourself and if you did not they would just not help you such as standing next to your burning building just to make sure your fire did not spread to houses that did actually pay.

What a glorious future we have to look forward to.

[Juxtapose]

That literally happens in some US states already. If you don't pay the fire department, they will let your house burn.

[AngryCarl2]

Capitalism without controls always ends up eating itself.

[Juxtapose]

Exactly, the people don't want to hear that and end up calling you a communist. I hate communism, but I'm just being realistic about what capitalism actually is.

[Leopard23]

I think its case of poor customer support staff. Companies don't look after customers anymore once they have your money, in the old days an after sales department would be happy to advise you for free.

[NostalgiaSenpi]

It's a terrible situation, but what happens if they decide to put a backdoor into them to help the police. At point do we have a breach of customer privacy for something that the customer didn't even want. It's always a slippery slope.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

That's capitalism for you. As the name states, capital is what matters.