Why is burning the American flag "Protected speech" but burning the "LGBTQ+ Pride" flag a hate crime?

[RingOfFire]

[PizzaDaddyo]

You may thank our founding fathers to include free speech in our constitution! Also, there are some rights that you have that aren’t listed in the constitution which means your state or township can have its own laws making it possible for punishment for anything within their own boundaries such as: j waking, weed being illegal or decriminalized, gun laws, in this case “hate crimes”.


If you really wanna take a deeper look.. wouldn’t be so unreasonable if I said anything against the government or a simple “fuck trump” and end up in hand cuffs soon after. I understand this is also about burning the flags here and how I see it, I think burning any flag is bold yet cowardly. Hey, I don’t think we should burn any flags but I can’t stop anyone anytime soon and it’s 2023. It makes sense for them to have their own laws protecting lgbtq community. I think we should all take a step back and let the gays be gays! We can’t stop them from being gay and what are they gonna burn, the straight people flag that I we all never seen or cared about.

[Miristheiss]

That is just proof of the evil of some of today's agendas.

Have you heard in the news how some pro sports teams do Pride stuff and have flag colors worked into their uniforms. Any players that object or vilified in the news and called all sorts of names... they are supposed to go to sensitivity training for their "crime" but let's flip it. Let's say you are not Jewish, are we allowed to require you to wear a Yarmulke on your head? What if we try to make you wear the Christian cross? We are violating your rights to require you to do that. It is wrong to force a person to proclaim a faith that they do not follow but it is fine to force someone to proclaim a sexual preference they do not follow.

You see how you have liberty on one hand but on the other you do not. One set of rules on one side and a different set on the other.

This stuff is getting out of hand. This is some out of control cult obsessed with this flag and this lifestyle. Parades, endless flag waving, endless demand that everyone is aware of their thing and demand we must embrace it and believe men are really women and women are really men. It is like all they think about from sun up until sun down.

[msmissydc]

Please fact check. Both are totally fine legally (even if acceptable is a difference) as long as no other crime is involved. So make sure its your own flag otherwise its a crime and hate crime can be added as the reason. Hate crime is never the actual crime!! IT is always the reason why the actual crime was committed.

[ShesRad80]

because the new America has gotten insane, people wanna burn the flag people who didn't fight for their own rights, but others died for them. yet they wanna partake in the good things America has to offer. burning the flag is worse, traitors should go to another country if they are so unhappy. hypocrites

[RingOfFire]

You are so right. God bless you for being one of the few in your generation who can see through the attempt to brainwash you. Don't let them intimidate you. Don't let them shut down your right to express yourself. Liberty and freedom are the backbone of this beautiful country.

[ShesRad80]

I'm from a generational military family.

[RingOfFire]

My Dad was wounded in WWII defending that flag and the greatest country in human history that it stands for. So I am with you all the way. 👍

[ShesRad80]

👍👍

[BeMuse]

LGBTQ+ are a folk like the Nazis. They are a foreign nation in their own mind. They believe the false promise of the Fabian Socialists that they will be allowed to form their own nation if they assist in the invasion. This is why they have their own flags. This is why they try to hang their flags on institutions of power so as to occupy the land. They are invading your country trying to seize power. Being that they are their own nation in their mind. They have their own set of laws that you did not agree to, because you are from a different nation than them. You are at war with them. You just haven't figure it out yet.

[BeMuse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6rk1mYiOAw

[AaronH03]

It is not illegal to burn a pride flag or any other flag.

[BeMuse]

@aaronh033 Where specifically are you talking about? Because in many Democrat run states, they will tack on "hate crime" in an investigation for a LGBTQ or BLM flag, but not for an American flag. Under the constitution people can burn flags if they own them. If they take someone else's flag and burn it, then it is property damage and they are liable for financial damages. Yet in Democrat run states, they have special crimes for attacking their nations' flag (i. e. LGBTQ). So say you get charged with a misdemeanor for $25 of property damage and you have to pay to purchase them a new flag, but now they tack on a year in prison for "hate crime" where as they would not do the same thing for the American flag. Well there is clear a difference there.

[BeMuse]

@AaronH03 There is a multi-tiered justice system in communist occupied territory. The party elite have their own set of rules. The folks which act as their soldiers have a different tire of justice. Then the rest of the people have another type of justice system. This is why you see BLM walking into stores and stealing $1000 worth of merchandise every single day and the police don't arrest them.

[BeMuse]

That's how the Nazis do things...

rumble.com/...t-awakening-full-unedited-movie.html

[BeMuse]

[BeMuse]

@AaronH03 Logically if a normal citizen is charged for doing a "hate crime" for $25 in property damage to an LGBTQ flag and can be sentenced to a year in prison, but a Volksgemeinschaft (folk community/folk nation) is not charged at all for $1000 a day in property damage via theft in stores, then it is illegal to burn a LGBTQ flag in that territory. Because property damage is acceptable upto a certain dollar amount so long as you are part of an approved Volksgemeinschaft (LGBTQ+, BLM, etc.) in their social hierarchy.

[BeMuse]

Clearly they don't give a damn about equal protections guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States, because they see themselves as a separate nation with their own set of laws.

[richardcory]

It seems to be a question of whether it was your own flag you burned

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-burning-pride-flag/fact-check-burning-bible-or-pride-flag-is-protected-in-us-absent-other-crimes-idUSL1N37N1L5

Burning a pride flag you own is legal. Burning someone else's flag is (obviously) a crime, and apparently can be called a hate crime.

I do not like the concept of "hate crime" in general. Far to open to interpretation.

In this case though the comparison is of two different things. It legal to burn any flag you own, its not legal to destroy someone else's property

[Sasahara]

Because SJWs are major hypocrites with too much power.

Its the same reasons as why:

- A 17 year old can get kicked out of a official Pokemon card tournament for being nervous because it made the judge "uncomfortable" while being asked about his pronouns, but don't you dare not wanting a grown man in a dress being around your kids, that can only be bigotry!

- They can call black or LGBT comservatives all sorts of names, but if you dare to use the same words about a leftist you are problematic.

- Its ok to complain about how Nani in the upcoming Lilo & Stitch remake is too white, but if you complain about a character being too brown you are racist.

[AaronH03]

It’s not illegal, read a little bit please.

[Sasahara]

@AaronH03 I don't think I claimed its illegal, just that SJWs are hypocrites with too much power. And then I gave some other examples.

[AMS700CX4u2]

I think when an American flag is physically beyond service it is supposed to be burned out of respect. Some Government Service hold retirement services for a community so that a flag that has reached the end of usable service can be retired. In this way it can be put to rest out of love. But I know that this not the kind of burning you are addressing and it does seem ignorant to burn a symbol that stands for a government that guarantees a person's right to be other different. In one situation your are stating an opinion about the government, which is a principal that the government is based on, in the other situation you are stating an opinion about a group of people which is once again your right, but if the action leads to an act of discrimination. It then becomes a crime.

[abc3643]

Reuters explains it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-burning-pride-flag/fact-check-burning-bible-or-pride-flag-is-protected-in-us-absent-other-crimes-idUSL1N37N1L5

[AaronH03]

It isn’t illegal to burn a pride flag as long as when you do it, just like the American flag, you are not violating any other laws for example: setting it on fire in the Walmart frozen food section etc. Why don’t you actually do research or look elsewhere other than a Twitter or Facebook post before you decide to put a question like this up somewhere.

[Kiss_Me]

... because it adds to the narrative the alphabet community is spewing.

[DubiousIntentions]

That is a very good question. I guess that is just the way the Woke world is going. Soon everyone will have "special" rights except straight white Christians.

[RavVid]

That is an interesting distinction. In the US could I burn a NAZI flag to show my hatred of Nazi's? Does the US have a list of flags you can burn and those you can't burn? If not how do you guys ever know which flags you can pour lighter fluid on?

[HippieVeganJewslim]

No need of the apostrophe in Nazis.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Because one says "I hate this government. We need to push back against it's actions."

And the other says "I hate this group of people. We need to push back against their existence."

[RingOfFire]

1. Even if true, since when is it a crime to hate a group of people? You don't have a right to that? If it was a crime to hate a group of people, only Jesus wouldn't be in jail.

2. Why is one hating a "government" and the other NOT hating a "movement?"

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Do you know what pushing back against a group of people's existence means? It's encouraging others to attack them. Inciting violence. That's a crime.

Because it's not a "movement" to be gay or any other sexuality. There is no "government" of the gay people. There's no system of rule over gay people that could be resisted or dismantled. It's just the fucking people. And there's no non-criminal way to push back against a group of people's existence.

[nolabels]

The "other" says, "You will not usurp the wonder of the rainbow to represent a very minority group of people, no matter their unalienable right to exist and flourish.

I take extreme exception to the "rainbow" being used to promote LGBTQ+.

My own views aside, and as proud as I am to say I am who I am, the rainbow is above us all.

It should not be used for political purposes.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels if you have a problem with the flag, then say the flag should be changed, don't burn it. It doesn't represent itself I still represents people, and it still sends a violent message against those people to burn a flag that represents them. Nobody thinks ur angry about a peice of colorful cloth when u burn one that represents a group of people so it's not even getting the message you want to get across anyway.

Maybe say people should use the progress flag instead of the pride flag, that's the updated version anyway, and isn't a "rainbow." Just start a petition or something to have all the pride flags updated to progress flags.

[RingOfFire]

Why is burning an America flag not "pushing against" the government's existence but burning a gay flag is pushing against a group of peoples' existence?

By the way, if I say all gay people should be exterminated that is free speech and not a crime.

[nolabels]

I'd never burn a rainbow flag, nor do I condone the behavior of those who do burn it. It's abhorrent to me.

I just wish it would stop being used to represent a particular group of people, even if I'm one of the oldest members of that group.
The rainbow is above us all in terms of symbolism.

The rainbow is too sacred to be a political symbol.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Bc very few people are actually anarchists. Again, it's a lot about what message is received. When u burn an American flag most people hear u against something goverment done. If u wanna say against government existing u gotta have the anarchy A. That's the symbol. This shit all about symbolism.

Calling for violence against a group of people is still a crime. Just bc u do it w ur voice instead of w a match, doesn't make it not a crime. U may not get charged but that don't make it legal.

"It is a felony under federal law to intentionally “solicit, command, induce, or otherwise endeavor to persuade” another person to engage in a crime of violence against a person or property."

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels people use stars in flags. Those were created b4 the rainbow. N people use the sun & moon in flags. There's even crosses and lions in flags. Actual political flags as in representing a poliyical body of a country.

Again, pride flag isn't represent a political body. It just represent group of people. Maybe u think too secret secret represent anything, but just wanted to clarify again in case you didn't understand the first time.

[RingOfFire]

"Bc very few people are actually anarchists."

So you are saying that there are fewer anarchists then there are people who hate the LGBQ+ movement?

Let's say that is true. So you are saying that because there are few people who would blow up a plane full of innocent people that means that isn't a serious crime? And it means that blowing up the plane isn't worse than hating gay people because there are fewer people who would blow up a plane than there are who hate gays?

[nolabels]

You're trying to put words in my mouth.
That's not happening.
I'm against the rainbow being used as a symbol for something which I'm part of.
That is it.
Period.
You won't drag me into something which I know little of and cannot speak to.

[Xovr3]

You could say the exact same thing with the America flag and the pride flag. Burning the American flag also means "I hate this group of people." and burning the pride flag says "I don't like people who pridefully sin." Your argument is dumb.

[nolabels]

@Xovr3 Are you talking to me?

[Xovr3]

@nolabels no

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What? Obviously no. Lol

Few anarchists = few people burn US flag to say abolish government (& even then not all anarchists say use violence to do so). people who burn US flag mostly just say US did bad thing. So that's what burning flag has come to mean.

Most people who burn pride flag, on other hand, are people who want gays to not exist. So burning pride flag has come to mean wanting violence against gay people.

This is about flag burning and what it represents. Did u forget the entire question u asked?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@Xovr3 u could say, but ud be wrong lol

[Xovr3]

Goldfish_smile the America flag represents a group of people too, you are an idiot.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@Xovr3 the US flag represents a group of people led by a government. That's a big distinction. Which I mentioned in like 1st reply already.

[RingOfFire]

I think they should put the rainbow colors on a Swastika. That would actually be a pretty good fit because the LGBTABCDEFG+ movement thinks that anyone who has a different opinions than their's should be persecuted. They are a hate mob who thinks that a tiny percentage of the population has a right to impose its views on the rest of us through intimidation and violence and dictate how we must think and speak. THEY are the aggressors.

Oh look! Someone already did!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

U know that nazis famously hated lgbt+ people right? And nowadays, neo nazis also hate lgbt+ and want them dead? But yeah sure, the people nazis hate are the real nazis. Lol

[Xovr3]

And the pride flag is lead by a group of sinners and a cult lead by the far left media and far left government, what's your point?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@Xovr3 there is no elected leader or leadership structure of gay or queer people. They aren't an organization. They aren't a country. They are people. They may be members of organizations and countries, but those are not represented by pride flag. Like US flag doesn't represent fox News or Africa or China or wherever American people may have dual citizenship to, and who they may let influence them. U understand that right? That Americans have elected government and leaders, and gay people don't, bc they're not a country or organization or any shit like that. The pride flag represents people only. Those people can join whatever organization or government they want. Unlike US where u have to follow rules by the government to keep ur citizenship.

[RingOfFire]

"U know that nazis famously hated lgbt+ people right?"

You know that the Democrat Party was founded to represent slave owners and preserve black slavery and the Republican Party was founded to abolish slavery right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_YQ8560E1w

[GOLDFISH_smile]

U again forget ur question is about flag burning, specifically the American & pride flag? Stop changing the topic.

[Xovr3]

@GOLDFISH_smile Ye gay pride has tons of organization, and those organizations have elected leaders. Some of those organizations are left wing media who have elected people to help run a company and purposely push pride propaganda for money. A country and a group are the exact same thing, when you say "group of people" that also applies to a country. Also, people in the US can join whatever organization or government they want to. Lastly people get kicked out of LGBT pride groups ALL the time for not following there cult like rules.

[RingOfFire]

I like GOLDFISH_smile. She is not one of the nasty hate filled left that attacks people who disagree AND she shows signs of being able to tolerate different views and remain open minded about them rather than just digging in to a position and refusing to change her view even if her argument obviously makes no sense.

I think her view on this topic is wrong, but she is young, a pretty good debater for her age (especially when she is stuck taking the losing side in the debate), and I think there is still plenty of hope for her to see the light as she matures.

[nolabels]

I'm starting an anti-rainbow flag "people like me" organization then, with the concept of a blue sky in mind , signifying that the world is my oyster, and every day is a new one to enjoy.
Who'll join me?
Sky-blue people, unite with me in proclaiming your individual freedom to just live!
What's that?
We already have a blue sky to signify freedom.
All right!
There'll be no need for more flags, then.
Just live, for goodness sake!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@Xovr3 oh, im sorry I didn't realize nobody taught u the difference btwn having a sexuality and being literally owned by a government. Can those "pride" organizations draft people to war? Can they send people to jail, lawfully execute them, imprison them, etc? Organizations and government can by run by people who are gay, like it can be run by Americans. An organization cannot be gay tho. & it can be American. Stop being a silly goose now k? thanks. I'm don't talking to u.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels u don't want a flag ok. Go talk to people about getting the flag meaning changed then to exclude u. Personally I'd like to not be represented by the American flag, but alas I am a citizen at least until I can afford to leave the country and can gain citizenship elsewhere. I'm not in charge of any of that shit what do u want me to do about it?

[nolabels]

@RingOfFire
GOLDFISH_smile does like to stay strictly on topic, doesn't she.
A master debater ploy.
Yet the subject does demand a wider view than she will allow for.
Points awarded for staying on topic, or deducted for refusal to engage in the broadening of the subject matter?
I've made my decision.

[Xovr3]

@GOLDFISH_smile Some of these pride events are ABOVE THE LAW, sometimes they get half naked or even flash their genitals in front of litle kids at drag shows and don't get arrested. LGBT people break they law all the time and get away with it because of the gaint cult they are who are backed by the media and the government and allow them to break laws.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

thanks I took debate in a conservative organization in hs, & studied philosophy in a conservative college. I'm glad I learned enough to keep being able to communicate with people who still think that way even tho I no longer do. At least when those people can also discuss reasonably.

[nolabels]

@GOLDFISH_smile
I can afford to do the same, but why would I, being a citizen of the greatest country ever to exist on this Earth.
Goodbye, world citizen.

[nolabels]

@Xovr3
Above the law type of illicit behavior is not cool.
I have my own "out-of-the-norm" proclivities.
I don't feel a need to proclaim myself as being in some way special, or to be bitching about which restroom I will use.
I'm a man.
I use men's restrooms, as all men should.
I keep my proclivities to myself, to my intimate friends, and to forums addressing such subjects, not to be used as shock value, to freak out those who are not so inclined.
What purpose is served by inflaming those who would not necessarily be against a group, except that that flag-waving group feels that it must promote and indoctrinate the rest of the world with their inclinations?
Who can imagine that that behavior won't piss off a majority of people, among many queers also, myself included.
It's not right, and it's self-defeating in the long run.
Just live and let live.
There are always going to be fringe hate groups.
Why give them more to pseudo-hate?
Just frickin' live.
Forget about the flags and organizations, just live.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels man I'm with u I'm trying to just live. It's hard when the US government be trying to outlaw my family's existence tho.

[nolabels]

A new subject has been introduced.
How so is your family being outlawed?
I may have views contrary to yours, I must warn you, but as a fellow human being, I'll give you all the leeway that I feel that I can.

[Xovr3]

@nolabels LGBT, Antifa, BLM, get away with breaking the law all the time.

Also, if someone wants to burn the America flag or the pride flag I say go for it you should be aloud to. My problem is when people want to act like one is crime and the other is not.

[nolabels]

@Xovr3 I'm with you, brother.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels diff states trying to ban from getting Healthcare. Ban from even be in public life. Ban from having kids, & splitting up families. Is fucking insane. I rlly would rather everybody just live and let live. But they not give that option for us unfortunately.

[nolabels]

How so?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

@nolabels "how so" wtf question is that? I just said.

[AaronH03]

It is not a crime to burn it

[BadApple69]

The American flag doesn’t represent the government. It represents the American people.

[Anonymous]

i like the comments on this. So many dumbass idiots. "it's not illegal, it's not illegal". But people are being charged with hate crimes for leaving fucking tire marks on gay rainbow fucking painted crosswalks on the ROAD. Obviously they'll shit bricks if you mess with their flag of hatred. It's just bat shit crazy. That's all there is too it. Nazis, trying to lock up anyone who doesn't follow their line of thinking.

[Adam1978]

It's just flags burn them if you want who cares. Throw some holy books on the pile when you are at it. Aslong it's your property it's all fine, I just don't understand why you would own something you don't like.

[Anonymous]

Because wokeness is a cult-like religion. The cult members can't offer any objective facts to support their beliefs, so they just yell them louder and stifle debate by attacking dissenters for blasphemy.

[AviatorTom]

Excellent question. I guess the distinction is that the LGBTQ flag is about a protected class of individuals, while the American flag is only about a country, no specific class of people.

[RingOfFire]

Thanks for your comment but I have to disagree with your assessment. The American flag is without a doubt about a specific class of people... American citizens: the class of people that our elected officials are sworn under oath to protect and defend and put before all others.

[AviatorTom]

@RingOfFire By protected class, I'm referring to laws that protect specific people. In the case if LGBTQ, there are laws against sex discrimination. There are no laws that protect the average American citizen.

[RingOfFire]

Have to disagree with you again. There are no laws that protect the average American citizen? May want to think that one over. ALL laws protect the average American citizen. And the flag represents the country... a country of laws. So when you burn an American flag you are burning a flag that is about protecting the class that includes ALL American citizens. In my book that is an even more egregious act than burning a flag that represents only a tiny number of American citizens.

[William4447]

I think both could be considered extremely rude but shouldn't be "illegal" per se but I guess they think the one would hurt a presently or at least historically dehumanized group and burning an American flag is not that problematic

i think both are unnecessary. if there is problems within this country, there is better ways to fix it, than to burn the flag. the other one is unnecessarily rude.

[Anonymous]

because persecuting and targeting minorities does more harm, the American flag is not as personal, your right to exist and be an equal citizen trumps your nationality

[RingOfFire]

The American flag is not personal? My father was wounded and nearly killed defending that American flag in order to protect your right to say what you just said without going to prison. I'd say that's pretty personal.

[Opinion Owner]

your argument is incoherent - so you want people to go to jail for burning the American flag? the reason some minorities are protected is because they face persecution for bigoted morons - I don't see why any reasonable person would have a problem with safeguarding people who are persecuted just because of who they are - your dad is not under attack because someone set fire to the American flag because everyone in america identifies under the American flag - it's pretty obvious - the true underlying point you seem to be making is you want to bring back the good old days of minorities being second class citizens - sounds like that would make you happy

[RingOfFire]

Sorry honey but it's your argument that is incoherent. You are so far off the mark that I don't have time to straighten you out.

[Opinion Owner]

why don't you just try to be kind towards other people - is that really so difficult for you

[RingOfFire]

You are a real piece of work!

Kind like this maybe?

"the reason some minorities are protected is because they face persecution for bigoted morons"

[Opinion Owner]

being a bigoted moron is not kind is it?

[loveslongnails]

I don't believe you have your facts straight. As far as I know, it's legal to burn any flag in the USA, from any country or any group, so long as you own the flag.

[Ironic_Method]

It's not a crime to burn your own flag. You're just trying to find reasons to hate gay people more than you already do. Simmer down and take your Metamucil.

[slatyb]

"... burning the pride flag is a hate crime?" Where did you get that?

[strateguy632]

kuz America is a mix not a "certain group" getting targeted