Does the Utah shooting prove your guns are pointless?

[purplepoppy]

Whenever gun control is discussed a common response is "They'll have to take it out of my cold dead hand."
However in Utah, it's just been proven that's not really an issue, in fact, it's pretty easy. I think it sends a clear message to gun nuts that they're not the force they think they are.

Thoughts?

[Lliam]

I'm struggling to understand what that case in Utah proves.
Did you get fired up by reading another anti-gun article in the Guardian or some other British tabloid?

Brits are completely ignorant about the reality of gun violence in America.

Since the covid terror campaign, beginning in 2020, firearm related homicides rose from around 15,000 or 16,000, where they had hoovered for years, to just over 20,000.

But the FBI says that 80% of gun homicides are gang related. That means that out of 21,000 last year, around 4,200 were not gang, inner city crime, or drug cartel related.

4,200 when there are over 80,000,000 legal gun owners. 4,200 out of 330 million citizens and 450 million people in the country at any one time.
Wow! The streets are literally running with blood. Nobody is safe!

Regarding Utah. Is it surprising that law enforcement was about to take out a lone old man who made death threats against public figures?
Was is surprising that authorities were able to stop post-civil war gangs like the Daltons and James'. Or the depression era gangsters like the Barkers, Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger, and Machine gun Kelly? Did we need "gun control" for that?

What is interesting, though, is that authorities seem unable to clean up modern gang activity. Do you see them invading inner cities or arresting cartel bosses?

In the end, I don't see what any of this has to do with stripping all American citizens of their self-evident, unalienable rights to defend themselves or to simply own guns if they want to. Americans are sovereign citizens under the Constitution.

Brits who love being loyal subjects of the crown can stay in the UK and celebrate their servitude.

[Soteris]

So its okey that people are suffering because they are not so many? Is that your argument? Well, its a novel take on the situation I suppose.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. Yeah it's okay. Just as nobody is bitching about 40,000 motor vehicle fatalities every year. Is anyone talking about banning cars?

If one looks at all causes of death, gun homicides don't even rank. That's why gun control advocates try to include suicides when they talk about "gun violence".

To put things in perspective, 40,000 people die from accidental poisoning. 40,000 people die from accidental falls. How many people die from over the counter or prescription meds? And there are in the neighborhood of 250,000 fatal hospital errors.

What moron would think that preventing honest people from owning firearms would have any effect on gun violence? And why is "gun" violence the issue and not violence in general?

[Soteris]

... Yes they are bitching about the 40 000 motor vehicle fatalities every year. Road safety is a massive priority and both something the government is working on as well as consumers are concerned about when for example buying new cars by looking at the crash rating.

Few things have had the funding put into it on the same level as road safety.

Same thing with accidental poisoning. Why do you think there are hazard symbols everywhere? Or for that matter, recipes required for most medication?

Society is desperately trying to reduce all these other things as much as they can, what makes guns so special that we should not even try it with them in particular?

[Lliam]

@Soteris. It depends on what they are proposing to minimize the deaths. As if there aren't already hundreds of gun laws in this country.

Why do the cities with the strongest "gun control" laws have the highest crime rates?

Besides, do you really think that the wealthy elites who are behind the "gun control" movement are actually concerned about the deaths of mere commoners? Are they motivated by compassion?

Are they trying to ban agricultural poisons on crops or injecting livestock with dangerous vaccines? Are they working to insure that food is healthy?
They don't give one fuck about human health or quality of life.

But you probably think people like Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg and Rupert Murdock are philanthropists. You probably think the New World Order/Great Rest are conspiracy theories and that UN Agenda 2030/50 are meant to benefit rather than enslave humanity.

[Soteris]

First of all, what have those gun control laws actually done? Have they forced gun manufacturers to make guns with finger print scanners for example? There are a million and one things you could do to make it harder to misuse a weapon and the only thing out of USA that I have heard is that sometimes you have to store the gun in an approved gun safe and maybe you are not allowed to buy guns if you are a known terrorist or something. You have barely lifted a pinky to address the issue.

As for the wealthy elites and all that, good point. Problem is that they are against gun control so you are just making my argument for me by pointing out that they dont care about you or your life. They live in their own little world and have no fear that the rest of the population would arm themselves and start shooting each other.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. LOL You don't have one clue.

[Soteris]

Then prove me wrong. The restrictions for all the other examples you mentioned have fundamentally altered every aspect of the product and our access to them. Cars are designed from the ground up to be safe when crashing both for the people inside and whoever it crashes into such as pedestrians for example. What have gun manufacturers done?

Or do you argue against the wealthy elite being against gun control? Who do you think funds the propaganda against gun control? Who do you think owns and profits from gun manufacturers? Who do you think benefits from a population that is more concerned about arguing over the 2nd amendment than being concerned about what the rich are doing?

[Lliam]

@Soteris. Elites like the ones I mentioned and others fund the gun control movement and create astroturf organizations to make it seem popular. They also control the corporate media and internet giants, which push the propaganda and give the illusion of consensus, just like the did with covid and are now doing with climate change.

Why? Because American citizens and the idea of liberty are a major impediment to plans for the New World Order/One World Government/Great Reset.

Grass roots organizations support the Constitution and gun rights. Here is a list of the national organizations, not counting state and local organizations.
Liberal Rifle Association, Gun Loving Liberal, Liberals for Gun Rights, Democrats for Gun Ownership, Blue Steel Democrat, Pink Pistols, Armed Equality (LGBTQ), Women Against Gun Control, Mother's Arms, 1 Million Moms Against Gun Control, Liberty Belles, Babes with Bullets, Women's Firearm Network, A Girl & A Gun, Second Amendment Sisters, the National African-American Gun Association, Black Guns Matter, Brown Girls With Guns, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), Jews Can Shoot, Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Law Students for the Second Amendment, Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership, National Shooting Sports Foundation, Gun Owners of America, National Association for Gun Rights, Second Amendment Foundation, American Firearms Institute, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Every 2nd Matters, Firearms Policy Coalition, Rifles and Reason, the National Rifle Association, the International Association for the Protection of Civil Arms Rights, and Firearms United.

[Soteris]

Elites loves two things, power and money. They dont just do things for shits and giggles, if it does not lead them towards power or money then that is not something they are interested in as a group. What part of funding gun control gives the elites more power and money?

I also love how you want me to believe that the WEALTHY ELITES wants to promote measures against CLIMATE CHANGE. You know, against industries like OIL AND COAL MINING. Like seriously, how retarded are you? The rich and powerful ARE the people who owns the coal and oil, they are not going to produce propaganda against themselves.

I would also hate to be the one who points out that America is falling behind the rest of the developed world on the subjects of liberty and whatnot. You and the American people are regressive, you are falling behind the times. You are becoming the thing that the founding fathers fought against and what they feared might happen in America. When even Britain has managed to progress further than you then you know you fucked up.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. That coming from someone living in a provincial backwater.

I wasted way too much time engaging with you. It's like debating an adolescent who thinks they know everything but doesn't have one single clue what's going on in the real world.

I won't humor you anymore. Carry on masturbating.

[Soteris]

Hahaha! You literally claimed that the rich elite wants to ruin the oil industry and then you tell me I dont know anything? Pathetic. At least try to not sound insane next time.

[Bricealan]

I own a hand gun, simply because I went through a law enforcement program, otherwise I would not own a hand gun. I know those that have a dozen firearms and never understood why? I never take the gun out of all of the things I store it in, except to clean and oil it once a fortnight. (ever how long that is)

I am not a gun enthusiast nor part of the lunatic fringe, vowing to resist gun control.

I try to avoid looking at or listening to the latest shooting and the upheaval that follows

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Why is this question only ever asked when there’s been a mass shooting? And never any mention or attention paid to when a licensed citizen used their firearm to stop themselves or others from being a victim of crime? Also ask yourself why they mass report those mass shootings and not the other?

[ShadezMcgee]

This wasn't a mass shooting just for perspective. It was regarding the FBI going into Utah the day before the president was supposed to visit and acting on a man's open statement that he would kill Biden. They went to his house and killed him Wednesday morning.

Poppy neglected to put any context to the question.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@ShadezMcgee still though one nut doesn’t represent all people that own or carry guns🤷‍♀️ and only time I’ve seen someone post about people that actually saved lives because they were packing was the take I did lol

[BLP11520]

Very good point made

[ShadezMcgee]

@Brainsbeforebeauty I agree completely, one guy doesn't represent the whole gun population as a whole.

[ShadezMcgee]

Context Poppy. Is this regarding the Old Man that was killed for posting on Facebook about wanting to kill Biden?

If so, well, no shit. Posting something like that will not only get attention from people, but especially if the president is going to that spot exactly. They sent the FBI in.

To put it simply though, no. I say it only shows why they want to take guns away even more. They can't take on an entire nation and there is no way every federal official or soldier would follow through with it.

[BoopBoopBeep]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/utah-man-suspected-of-threatening-biden-shot-and-killed-as-fbi-served-warrant/ar-AA1f5zBm

This one? Admit I haven't been following it and only skimmed it just now. Since they actually did take it out of his cold dead hands doesn't that prove the gun advocates right?

The difference in him and most gun owners is that he said dumb ist online and got a warrant served against him. You can't just go door to door and take all of them from everyone. As soon as word gets out you no longer control the tempo of violence nor the direction of momentum, and it turns into a logistical CF.

[Soteris]

If there is an increase in the "tempo of violence" then that will just ensure that those people who misuse their guns will lose them quicker. Neither the government nor society at large will tolerate such a thing after all so you just made enemies of everyone else and signed your own death warrant more surely than saying dumb shit online and getting a warrant on your ass.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Soteris Not quite what the phrase means, but I get your point.

[Anonymous]

I think it's outrageous; you can't just goto a guys house and murder him which is exactly what has happened here.

There is a lot of road between posting that sort of shit and actually doing it.

THE GUY WAS INSIDE HIS OWN FUCKING HOUSE.

You people need to fucking wake up.

IT'S NOT FUCKING JUSTIFIED, YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHIT.

Is there any wonder why he had a problem with state who literally came to his house and murdered him?

Wtf is wrong with you all?

Where is the fucking video which even justifies lethal force even if you accept the idea that the FBI should have gone door knocking?

We are just supposed to take the word, of the US government that it's all ok?

Fuck off, the is no entity on Earth with less credibility, I would sooner take the word of an obviously deranged and drunken bum over the US government every single time, it's not even close.

[Hanrej]

Gun control is never about protecting people but the few individuals in power. People are gonna kill eachother any ways... Besides, the only people effected by Gun control would be law abiding citizens since criminals would carry a gun regardless of any restrictions. In effect this just makes the law abiding part of the population less able to defend themselves against criminals, meaning they would have to depend more on law enforcement.

Ironically, the left is usually the ones arguing for Gun control AND defunding the police. Talk about putting law abiding peoples lives in hands of criminals.

[goaded]

Three year old brings a gun to school in Texas, response: ban backpacks.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/gun-found-3-year-old-backpack-at-pre-k-4-sa-18297900.php

[John_Doesnt]

Gun nuts believe in their guns like religion. They don't care about logic or facts. They believe in the right to own guns on an emotional and borderline retarded level. Talk to any gun nut and they very emotional when you talk about taking away their guns. It's not because it's rational, it's because these are religious people who are easily manipulated into believing anything the GOP tells them to.

[molonski2]

And here they go again ! Up , up and awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ..

To threaten the president of the US , with violence / death , and you dont expect a call from the FBI? Nothing is more sacred than the office , no matter who you support.

There are far too many firearms of all description in the wonderful US of A , but that will never change , too much power held by the gun lobby. See you at the next mass shooting , it never seems to be far away.

[richardcory]

There are lots of different scenarios. Personal gun ownership helps in some, makes things worse in others.

Guns in the hands of an organized resistance make it difficult for an oppressive government to take over. OTOH in the event of a civil war the are likely to make things far worse by causing the war to drag on for a very long time.

[Fuentes]

@purplepoppy who lives in UTah? Look at that population of that state lol its a fly over state that means many do not stay there. It's not on the map nor is it even mentioned.

The 2nd amendment exist and if our government wants to take it, a civil war will come about and those dumb ass authoritative liberals will all be placed down in a commie island where crime and pedophilia and weapons don't exist there and they can just sit there and run a nasty liberal muck.

[bolverk]

The guy that the FBI SHOT WAS OVER 300LBS and needed a walking stick to even walk across the room, his only 'crime' was making threats against the US President, the FBI turned up at his house with a SWAT TEAM instead of just sending a couple of agents to talk to him, sounds as though the FBI over reacted. No further details have been released about the shooting, which is under review by the FBI.

[Anonymous]

No. It shows the the gun free zones are pointless. It also shows that there is a bigger problem with society itself that no one wants to talk about. My grandfather was able to take his rifle to school and so was my father. It's not the guns, but rather people who just don't care and have no moral foundation.

[riverrat3]

dear blue anon, to qualify this, i am a gun owner, there are far too many gun owners that have no moral foundation. too many do not know or understand the first four words of the 2nd amendment

[Opinion Owner]

True, but it's something that has to be figured out on an individual basis instead of a one size fits all solution. Because rights are far too important to risk losing them out of fear of what someone else may do.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

You're an adult woman so how can you be this incredibly naive and stupid?

Guns literally saves thousands of lives a year from devils who attack other people with guns, break into their homes in the middle of the night etc something the media doesn't show you on a daily.

I don't care who you are, if dozens of FBI agents attack your home with guns and there's a shoot out then you're going to die.

[normalice]

It proves that guns haven't made anyone feel safer. Instead it made insecure people feel powerful, which is extremely not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Being a limey we wouldn't expect you to understand. Right to bare arms is a fundamental right of all Americans. It's our last line of defense against tyranny, not our first. The second amendment was written when we and big brother both had muskets. Yes it's largely symbolic anymore, as big brother firepower has increased substantially. But it's still our right!

[AviatorTom]

The Utah doesn't prove anything. The FBI correctly identified a man who threatened the President and tried to arrest him. Then who knows what happened and the man died.

[exitseven]

I find it hard to believe that an elderly man with health problems could not be taken into custody without lethal force. I know that I was not there but if the guy was black it would gave nmbeen a different outcome. This was a statement aimed at all Trump supporters.

[gorydetails]

No one gives a fuck what a person from the UK thinks the US should do. I think we made that clear in 1776.

[Z1pTD]

💀💀💀
Fax
Also though we only "won" that war because we literally weren't worth the bother. They could have crushed us if they wanted to.

[RoosterBreast]

@Z1pTD do you mean that south won the war which started as an act of northern aggression? Ask @boobslayer for the facts.

[BoobSlayer]

@RoosterBreast It's the truth. The South won the Civil War. We kept slavery alive for 100 years after we shot Tyrant Abe in the head. I wouldn't be surprised if the U. K. has a similar political strategy. But calling us 'gun nuts' isn't as effective as say, making it illegal for gun nuts to use the same bathroom as peace-loving humanitarians.

[BoobSlayer]

@RoosterBreast Now that I think about it, the South used the media to make John Wilkes Booth look like a crazy "gun nut", when he was actually Confederate Secret Service... Maybe the British are behind the Utah shootings.

[Z1pTD]

@RoosterBreast was the civil war in 1776
Fuck outta here bitch I'm not implying anything about any other war so don't put words in my mouth.

[BoobSlayer]

@Z1pTD It's true though. The so-called "surrender" was just Robert E Lee agreeing to call it quits for the day, knowing full well that the Confederate Secret Service was about to blow the fucking heads of Abe Lincoln and Edwin Stanton, the Secretary of War. In a theatre, no doubt. It's like we rebels were saying "All the world's a stage." Now, get ready for the biggest theatritcs of your life, because we'll find a loophole in your 13th Amendment. Bada boom bad bing! Got ourselves from criminals to do the hard labor, and some of those folks didn't leave the plantation for 100 years. So, yeah, the feds can suck it just like the British tyrants.

[Z1pTD]

@BoobSlayer I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying I was not commenting on that.

[JoeMichael67]

Responsible gun owners don't act stupid and make online death threats.

[Anonymous]

I think it proves more than anything that the US isn't the country it used to be. Times have changed. Mental illness is rampant and guns shouldn't be handed out to kids like candy. Many many parents literally buy their kids guns for their birthday.

[Surely]

If you remember. The Democrats were promoting violence against the Supreme Court Justices after they ruled on the abortion issue.
Did any of them get arrested?

[Z1pTD]

For eeacg American there are legally 1.2 guns. If most gun owners were "gun nuts" we'd all be dead. Legal guns aren't the problem, black market guns are 🤷

[jshm2]

Just Muricans being Muricans. Let them kill each other. Saves us doing it, again.

[Avicenna]

Did you Brits ever succeed in disarming the IRA?

[exitseven]

The FBI got lucky this time. Next time they might not be so lucky. Remember Ruby Ridge?

[BLP11520]

People have changed guns are pretty much the same the Parkland shooter said he heard voices telling him to kill. What voices do you think that they were? It was not God or angels

[BLP11520]

The FBI refused to admit that evil exists once again showing their lack of intelligence

[Anonymous]

Do something... Stop arguing and test... This is why I hate politics. It's all words.

[Dargil]

The Utah shooting proves evil is on the loose.

[AngryCarl2]

Of course they are. Real life isn't like an old-time Western movie where the hero never draws first but always kills the bad guy.

[LiamJHayden]

That is reading far too much into trained professionals taking out a septuagenarian.

[KostasKouvalis]

How has it been proven? What happened in Utah?

[jahaims]

Zero evidence or context so no one can disprove you I assume

[Reorx]

I have a.38 ruger & a sub compact glock, neither are as dangerous as the chemicals under my sink.

[Twalli]

Until any mentally unstable person cannot get a gun without a background check at a gun show, the laws lack the ability to be enforceable.

[jimmy2]

Utah is a Morons state not the best state to show that about guns

[Miristheiss]

What are you talking about?

[Kelly6]

For Americans guns are religion

[legalboxers]

not to the cult...