Is this self-defense or just an unwarranted shooting?

[msc545]

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/banko-brown-district-attorney-brooke-jenkins-video-deadly-shooting/

Updates

+1 y

The man shot was accused of shoplifting. The security guard was not charged as the SF District Attorney decided this was "self-defense". Many people who have viewed the video do not agree, and additional investigations are pending.

[Agape93]

Neither. Not self defense, more like an execution. But oh well, play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

[msc545]

The guy who was killed was executed for SHOPLIFTING.

[Agape93]

Yeah, committing a crime. People have been killed for far less stupid reasons. Am I supposed to empathize here or something?

[msc545]

no, but the differential does call into question the lack of judgment on the part of the shooter.

[Anonymous]

Well self defence is for being attacked, the guy was walking away.

[msc545]

exactly

[Opinion Owner]

I get that shoplifting shouldn't be allowed but it should be up to the police to apprehend this guy. Could he not have a taser rather than a gun? In the UK and Ireland psychical intervention by a security guard must be done by 2 licenced guards or not at all.

[razelove]

Self-defense, though it's unlikely to make the cut for California requirements of stopping deadly threat. Most definitely it's enough to go to justifiable homicide though.

Their fight is ambiguous and heated enough to go into unintentional manslaughter too, which is when you go straight into killing someone before "the blood has cooled" from stimulus that would cause any rational man to kill.

It has been a hot minute since I've been in a fight, but I do recall the adrenaline making me jumpy as all hell. Like I hit a guy with my car once whose ass I'd just kicked because he came out while I was leaving, I didn't know if he wanted to shoot me or what, car punch and then ask.

There isn't enough to charge him with murder, maybe with negligent manslaughter, but even then he'd likely get that tossed, justifiable homicide is the definition of self-defense.

[msc545]

The guy was WALKING AWAY from the fight when the other guy shot him. Did you not see that?

[razelove]

Yeah, and in the same link you sent his statement, and on camera when it becomes blurred the guy lunges at him and spits on him. That is considered assault in California, which is when he shot him. He was not arrested for doing so, but when the video went viral.

[msc545]

I don't see him lunging but he might have taken one step forward before spitting if he actually did that. If he did, yeah, that is an assault technically, but not a reason to shoot someone. Getting spit on is also not a reason to shoot someone. I think the guard just got very pissed off and in anger pulled his gun and shot the guy.

[razelove]

Doesn't matter what you think but what a court can prove. Keep going down the path of mob courts, it won't be small security companies, but "the mob" as not everyone can afford blackwater to secure their company. Let's be honest, regardless of whether it's murder or not, I'm willing to bet theft went down in that location considerably.

[msc545]

This was a bad shooting. I predict that the guard will be convicted. None of his excuses are supported by that video. If you think theft went down there, apparently you don't know SF very well...

[razelove]

Why would I need to know San Francisco? Stores don't hire security if theft or assault are not problems. It would be a waste of money. Even the bars lack security in this town, it's unneeded with how quickly the cops respond. The Wal-Mart has police details to prevent theft though, as does Home Depot. People have stolen from them enough that it's worth it.
Your argument collapses with the reasoning for why their would be security there. Is it rape instead of theft? Murder? Enlighten me.

[msc545]

I lived in SF for a long time although I no longer do. There are a lot of homeless people with psychiatric problems living on the streets that wander into stores and harass customers and staff, and steal stuff. Thus, the need for security in at least some places. The place where this occurred was a Walgreens that I know very well.

[Kiss_Me]

OK... I carry a gun every time I leave the house... Been licensed to do so for years. I post on many gun sites that have, "How should I have handled this situation" forums.

The security guy was alone. Bad move from the start.

The fight lasted wayyyy too long. He should have the shoplifter physically under control in a few seconds. He needs training.

Where was the use of non-lethal weapons? Pepper spray?

The security guy became the aggressor. He can be seen throwing a few punches.

The security guy allowed it to get physical. ANY physical confrontation involving someone carrying a gun is a deadly force encounter. Even if the gun carrier is the "Good guy," their opponent can grab the gun and shoot.

Just before the security guard pulled his gun and fired the shot, you can see the shoplifter aggressively step toward the security guard. Even considering the preceding fight, I still fail to see this as a deadly threat.

In my opinion, this was a bad shoot. The security guard did a lot of things wrong. I'm very surprised to NOT see him charged.

Thankfully, he does not represent the MASS PERCENTAGE of gun carriers.

Then again, YMMV.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Complicated. Let's look at the time stamps.

Around 4 seconds the security guard gets pushed. That's an affirmative act demonstrating willful intent. The subsequent punches are warranted.

At 10 seconds, on the ground doesn't appear to be fighting back, can't punch any more.

14 seconds, struggles to his feet. Elevated force is justified.

Failure to comply with lawful detainment including after application of a choke hold until 28 seconds. That also shows the chokehold was not fully seated and properly applied with enough force to subdue. It happens sometimes.

~38 seconds rear mount-ish still struggling, elevated force justified to coerce compliance assuming security guards in this state have any authority as law enforcement. Otherwise it's just a dude kidnapping me.

52 seconds perp breaks free and gets up. that's not the one you want

54 seconds grabs a bag. I don't know what's all in there

57 seconds appears to square up for a final game of Fuk Around and Find Out.

I guess a lot of that depends on what happens that the tape doesn't catch. Apparently security guard says he was threatened at that time. Looks like it COULD have happened that way, but without audio on the tapes we don't know.

After the shooting the guard does not appear to render any aid. That's just dumb with cameras all around. Not say I would be jumping on saving whoever I shoot, but at least go through the motions.

Is it a bad shoot? well like I said, depends on the law there and what happened that we can't tell from the video. Also in the "that said..." category, jury nullification exists for a reason, and I'm not losing sleep over one less violent thief in the world, so if he was without a doubt shoplifting, then I'm voting for not guilty on the jury even though he clearly shot him.

[Anonymous]

Does not appear to me to be in self defense. The officer started right out the gate by being aggressive, shoving the other man. He could have just let him go, called the cops like you’re supposed to but he wanted to jolt him. He could have secured the items in hand that were being shoplifted easily. Which he had the chance once he started nailing the dude, the bag as well as all the other items fell on the ground. As far as throwing punches, not necessary as I didn’t even see a need for that. As far as I can see the assailant never even threw a punch. He was too busy cowering on the ground. The first initial punch was thrown by the officer who had the man’s right wrist locked up. Once that happened, when he had the dude from behind he could have helped “escort” him out those two front middle doors w out items in hand. This was more of a I’m going to whoop your ass. As far as I can see the shoplifter never threatened the officer physically other than when he was at the door as he made a motion of lunging at the officer, which is assault. The entire video was him trying to defend himself from getting pummeled. Last as far as the shooting, dude was walking away. At that point he’s no longer a threat to you even though I didn’t think he was a threat at all. As far as audio well there was none so you don’t know what was said.

[lightbulb27]

This is another case of a human that was poorly trained thinking they have a right to steal, there are no consequences. they were wrong.

It's another case of parents, school system and society failing.

I don't put much of this on the security guy, a little. Do I think he needed to shoot. no, not from what I saw. The guy was leaving... but the robber say? "I'm gona kill you MFer?" That changes the equation. But if we put him in jail, lets jail a bunch of others or at least beat them for their failings.

The only reason this isn't a riot and BLM protest with Al Sharpton swooping in is both were "dark". Thank God, I'm seeing more "dark" security guards. Be nice to see some real changes in society.

[Astarlessnightsky]

First the guy in black brutally and heavily assaulted the dude in white and than murdered him on the street with a shot.

The guy in black is definetly a murder and psychopath.

And all the people just calmly walking by should charged as well for not helping.

[LiamJHayden]

I do not see self-defense here. As the shoplifter had not left the store yet, unless he broke open and removed items from the packages his crime had not occurred before the guard impeded him, pushed him, and assaulted him. If this is the totality, to me the guard instigated the confrontation over a misdemeanor that had not yet been committed and should be charged.

[John_Doesnt]

I had a guard card at one point in California and I know as a security guard you are not supposed to draw your gun on people unless threatened with a weapon. I also know that you are supposed to call the real police for a shoplifting case. Yes the security guard did his job wrong, but as a regular citizen it was self defense. He did nothing legally wrong, but he probably shouldn't be a security guard either.

[exitseven]

A bag of candy does not warrant a death sentence? How about a bag of candy and a box of Vanill Wafers, ? Where does the lone get drawn? How are security guards supposed to make a decision like that while. Wrestling with a criminal? I would rather they err on the side of the store keepers. They are the ones paying all the bills. Anybody who enters a place of business with the intent to rob, steal, threaten or assault should be aware that there is a good chance that somebody will end their life and have to make the decision is my life worth a bag of candy. I hope Wallgreens gave the security guard a bonus for his actions. He rid the world of one more asshole.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The thief is trash but you just can't have people killing people when there's no physical threat at all.

The security just shot him because he felt like it, not because he was in danger.

[msc545]

@exitseven This is the US, not Saudi Arabia. We do not execute people for shoplifting much as you wish we did. That security guard is in a lot of trouble and rightfully so.

[exitseven]

Yes, unfortunately this happened in a Democrat state where justice is upside down. The criminals go free and the victims go to prison.

[msc545]

The victim in this is the guy who was choked to death.

[exitseven]

no, he was the criminal. Democrats only see that when they are the ones getting robbed.

[msc545]

The store got robbed - not a person.

[exitseven]

Whan a store gets robbed all the citizens end up paying for it. The store has to charge higher prices, insurance costs gobup and finally the store closes and you have to travel 20 miles to get a prescription filled.

[msc545]

@exitseven You might want to reconsider the viability of your position given that nearly everyone here disagrees with you regarding this matter.

[exitseven]

I do not subscribe to the herd mentality. It is hard to ignore the facts that many chain stores like CVS and Target are closing their stores in Democrat cities because of crime and the employees have been assaulted. I guess people must want to live like that because they keep on voting for democrats.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

The guy was walking away. What I would do is video record him on my phone and give it to the police, at least this has more chances of him being caught. If I'm wrong, then I do accept that too.

[Jamie05rhs]

It's self-defense if these motherfuckers are driving up our prices with their thievery. If they keep increasing the inflation to where none of us law-abiding citizens can buy the goods that we need to survive, then we will literally die. Therefore, yes, it is self-defense.

[FreyaRed]

Shooting at someone who moves away shouldn't be considered as self-defense.

[Iron_Man]

You never shoot anybody for shoplifting my yard man works at a grocery store. He says he’s always hearing about shoplifting for food.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No. The suspect was leaving and was far enough from the security guard where his life wasn't in danger; its murder.

The security guard shot the suspect out of spite and bitterness.

[Anonymous]

Guy holding unpaid merchandise leaving the store = “accused shoplifter”

Guy confronting shoplifter defending himself = ”killer”

This could’ve been written by the shoplifter himself. Pathetic article.