Do you believe it’s possible for a person to be born with a girl brain but boy body?

[Anonymous]

Do you believe it’s possible for a person to be born with a boy brain but girl body?

Do you believe it’s possible to be born inside the wrong body?

[Anonymous]

Since transgender people exist, the obvious answer to that question is yes. I would never presume to tell someone that what they experience and who they are isn’t possible.

[leahzrc]

It is hard to say. A lot of people seem more gender fluid it is something almost strange to have spiked but I guess it is intended

[goaded]

Yes. Some things you may not know about Transgenderism!

[Asker]

If Gender dysphoria is caused by a hormone imbalance I think that would make gender identity “biological”

[goaded]

To be clear, the evidence shows brain structures more typical for the desired gender, there's no one thing that can be used to distinguish between the genders or sexes.

[Asker]

I read online on multiple websites experts aren’t 100 percent sure what causes gender dysphoria but they have a belief it might be caused by hormone imbalance in the womb.
For example if a male baby while still in the womb receives to much estrogen (female hormone) to the brain it might turn out with a female gender identity despite being physically a male.

[brianamau]

Transgender women might mentally feel like a woman but biological they are not.
Biological females produce estrogen from the ovaries.
Transgender women take estrogen tablets because they don’t have ovaries

[goaded]

@brianamau I suppose it depends on whether you think that your brain or your body is "you". If you could keep a head alive and communicating, it would maintain the same gender, don't you think?

Many cis people receive hormone therapy and plastic surgery for various reasons; I don't understand why many people are fine with that but not for trans people. (Actually, I do understand, and I think they're wrong.)

[goaded]

@brianamau Oh, and I just looked it up: "While estrogen levels are significantly lower in males than in females, estrogens nevertheless have important physiological roles in males."

[brianamau]

A biological male aka transwoman taking estrogen tablets which is a female hormone isn’t the same as a biological cis-woman who is a biological female taking estrogen because of menopause.
When the cis-woman was younger she could produce estrogen from her ovaries at a much greater level than transwomen who don’t have ovaries

[Asker]

@brianamau I agree it’s not the same.
A cis-woman taking estrogen for health reasons such as menopause isn’t the same as a person born male taking estrogen because he wants to look like a female.

You wrote “ When the cis-woman was younger she could produce estrogen from her ovaries at a much greater level than transwomen who don’t have ovaries”

I am in my early 20s and have never taken estrogen pills in my life

[goaded]

I'm not quite sure what points either of you are trying to make. Is it that not every young woman needs hormone treatment? Well, that's obvious. If you don't have some kind of medical condition that requires treatment, you don't get treatment.

Estrogen treatment is available for Irregular or No Periods, Mood Swings, Insomnia, Depression, Poor libido, Dry skin, Hot Flashes, Poor Memory, Headaches, Weight gain, Urinary Tract Infections, and as a treatment for trans women.

People only seem to have a problem with that last one.

[brianamau]

Before all these health problems the cis-woman still have always had higher levels of natural estrogen without taking pills than the trans woman (person born male)

While having these health problems and taking tablets the cis-woman cause she has ovaries still likely has higher estrogen than the transwoman

Estrogen comes from ovaries
Cis-woman have ovaries
transwomen don’t cause they were born in male bodies

[goaded]

@brianamau Clearly it doesn't entirely come from ovaries, males produce estrogen (and women testosterone) too, and again I ask: what's your point? Are you suggesting that hormone therapies should be denied to trans people, and if so, why?

[Asker]

It comes mostly from the ovaries

[Asker]

Estrogen comes mostly from the ovaries and people born female have higher levels than people born male without taking pills

[Asker]

Even with health problems the cis-woman who was born in a female body and has ovaries still likely has higher estrogen levels than the transwoman who was born in male body

It’s just a fact estrogen mostly but maybe not entirely comes from ovaries which is found in female bodies

[goaded]

I'm really not arguing about the biology, I'm asking if either of you think it's wrong to treat trans people with hormone therapy and if so, why?

Personally, I think it's a good thing. There's a wellness problem and if there's a treatment that works (far?) more often than not, why wouldn't you use it? There may be better treatments in the future (maybe pre-natal tests on the mother and treatment to ensure the problem doesn't occur in the first place), but 500 years ago amputation was still better than gangrene.

[brianamau]

The young kids yes
Not the older people.

[brianamau]

It’s possible some of these kids who think they are trans might grow out of it because their mind hasn’t fully developed yet or they could just end up being gay and not trans

[goaded]

@brianamau Thanks for the answer. There's a lot of hurdles a child (and their parents/guardians, who are always involved) have to get over before any medical treatment is started. Professionals are quite aware that there are tomboys, etc.. As I understand it, true trans people are as likely to "grow out of it" as other people are to grow out of being left handed.

[brianamau]

Yes that is a good response.

[brianamau]

It’s not my business what other people do with their bodies but i and imagine a lot of other people as well do think it’s wrong for a 7 year old to be taking puberty blockers

[goaded]

@brianamau Thanks. Again, there are developmental problems where those treatments are used for children who aren't trans: www.mayoclinic.org/.../syc-20351811 www.webmd.com/.../what-to-know-delayed-puberty (although the latter will obviously be started at later ages).

[brianamau]

What are the alternatives?

[goaded]

@brianamau Progressing with unwanted male or female puberty. Getting all hairy, or all curvy, when your brain doesn't think that should happen, I guess.

[brianamau]

I think it’s possible to transition in adulthood as well like Cher daughter did.
I don’t hate trans people but some of them seem a bit strange to me. Blaire White seems normal to me.
Dylan Mulvaney makes me cringe

[Asker]

It’s probably less harmful for a cis-woman who was born in a female body to take estrogen tablets.
It’s probably more harmful for a trans woman who was born in a male body to take estrogen tablets than a cis-woman.

I’m not a doctor or anything but this does seem true and makes sense to me. Also I and many other cis-girls or women don’t take estrogen tablets because we have it naturally from our ovaries

[goaded]

@brianamau It's generally not as effective to transition after puberty, the changes are still visible and require more work. Did you ever see The Craft: Legacy?

[brianamau]

No, I have never seen the craft but I have heard about Cher daughter transitioning into a man during adulthood.

[rigmarole]

Nope.

[AngryCarl2]

No, I don't think brains are binary in that way.

[TonyMetal___86]

Nope unless they were abnormal

[goaded]

Well, it's obviously not "normal", nor is being left-handed. Both are natural, though.

[brianamau]

@goaded being left handed isn’t a sickness.
Gender dysphria is a disorder trans people have

[goaded]

@brianamau Is it? Aren't both about how that individual's brain structure has developed? Aren't they both examples of how the brain can develop independently of the body? There are some people who have their hearts on the right, but they're much rarer than left-handed people. They're all variations on the theme.

[brianamau]

@goaded being left handed doesn’t cause a person psychological problems.

Trans people have psychological problems. They feel unhappy, stressed and sometimes even suicidal because they constantly feel they are in the wrong body. Some trans people even go through expensive plastic surgery and remove perfectly functioning body parts

I guessing it’s quite like trans people rather be left handed than feel like they are in the wrong body

[goaded]

@brianamau Being left-handed used to open you to accusations of being evil (sinister), to be beaten and forced to write with your right hand. I'm sure they felt "unhappy, stressed and sometimes even suicidal because they constantly [felt they were] in the wrong body", too. More recently, the same things were said about homosexuals. Things have changed for the better.

[brianamau]

@goaded accusations doesn’t make something a fact.
It’s a fact being left handed isn’t a psychological problem and it’s not a good idea to compare people from 200 years ago to people today. People from there lacked scientific knowledge compared to today people.

In the 21st it is also it is a fact gender dsyphria is a disorder and these people feel unhappy without being beaten.

[brianamau]

@goaded being left handed may be uncommon but it isn’t a sickness
Gender dysphria is a sickness
I haven’t made a survey but I assume it’s quite likely trans people would much rather be left handed than have gender dysphria

[goaded]

@brianamau You don't think trans people experience bigotry? You're doing it right now! Is being gay a "psychological problem"? Why not? It was a "disorder" listed in the DSM from 1952 to 2013.

[brianamau]

@goaded No, that’s wrong. They removed being “gay” as being an illness in 1973

[brianamau]

I want to stop arguing with you now but one last thing being gay isn’t considered an illness in 2023 and hasn’t been since 1973 but gender dysphria is still considered a disorder as of 2023. This is a fact

[goaded]

@brianamau Yes, it was changed to being "sexual orientation disturbance" (is that better?) I was also wrong about when it started: 1918.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_DSM

[goaded]

@brianamau I think we've had a constructive discussion, I'm quite happy to end it here. Thanks.

[BarryLiverstone]

If it is, it’s rare

[Anonymous]

Nope.