Do you think women care more about abortion or having children?

[SolitarySolace]

If women cared more about having children as opposed to getting abortions, abortion wouldn’t even be an option.

I think women care more about abortion

I think women care more about having children

[Lliam]

Oh yeah. Women just love getting abortions.
Get serious.
Or maybe the unplanned pregnancy sometimes occurs and an early-term abortion is better than having a baby that she can't care for.

[Billlewis]

Right now, I think most of them are more concerned with Roe vs Wade than anything...

[SolitarySolace]

You think women will vote for democrats because of roe v wade and not against them because of their blatant antisemitism?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It's more like they care more about having the choice to do it than abortion itself

[SolitarySolace]

If that were true than why did they vote for abortion up to north (9 months) in Ohio? If that’s not a pro abortion stance I don’t know what is.

[SolitarySolace]

Birth*

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Ok then tell me what's the case? If it's the woman in ohio wanting the choice to abort her unborn baby, then it's the choice she wanted which is what those women are supporting. Unless they're really forcing her to abort it even if she didn't want to. So yes that would still fall under choice. If a woman gets pregnant accidentally want just want to keep her fetus until it's born, then she's also given the choice to keep it. If your stance is women who support choice are just pro abortion, then I can just make strawman arguments like saying pro lifes are just anti choice and supremacists of their own point of views. Also hypocrites if they're childless and not adopting any children themselves.

[msc545]

Women do not want to have the inconvenience of not being able to kill children when they feel like it. In other words, women do not want the law to apply to them.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@msc545 Because abortion is suppose to be not against the law. Killing children is a different story. But if you view abortion as killing children, your point of view is not the only thing that matters. If they don't want the law to apply to them just for having abortion then would it be fair if one advocates a law for pro lifes if they ever force women to keep their fetus and give birth, they should be arrested. But ofcourse you wouldn't want it.

[msc545]

@Aiko_E_Lara All of that save your last sentence is self-evident. Why do you feel the need to state the obvious?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Oh now it is obvious? When you literally have the opposite idea. If what I said was obvious then you would have agreed with what I said and not contradict everything.

[msc545]

Nobody is forced to have an abortion. Your logic is hard to follow.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It doesn't really take a genius. If nobody is forced to have an abortion then nobody should be forced to keep their fetus and give birth. But since there are a lot of pro lifes out there who wants to make loss for anyone having abortion then therefore pro-choice should also try to make loss for anyone forcing women to give birth just to be fair. If my logic is hard to follow then maybe it's too much for your small brain to process

[msc545]

Does the unborn child deserve fairness?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@msc545 It's a fetus so I'm not giving it human rights. If that's case, masturbation should be banned because sperms are alive technically. But if you like to say a sperm and a fetus are different, then it's not different if I say a fetus is different to a born baby. Your point of view is not the only thing that matters.

[msc545]

You really like to indulge in false equivalences, don't you? Not buying this one or the preceding one.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

In your perspective it is a false equivalence. You're supremacy is showing by by indulging your own point of view to be the superior one by just calling other point of views false.

[msc545]

My point of view just like yours is a value judgment. Of course. I think my point of view is morally superior. Just as you think yours is. I don't see a clear resolution to this conflict at all. You are certainly welcome to your beliefs and I am welcome to mine I expect. This is a very difficult issue and I hope on that point we could both agree.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yeah you're welcome to have your own belief until you're trying to put law for anyone disagreeing with you. That's what pro life do. They like to make abortion illegal because they believe their point of view is morally superior. Reminds me of Hitler in a way saying being a Jew should be illegal.

[SolitarySolace]

I know this isn’t my convo to butt in on but just wanted to add, @Aiko_E_Lara, the liberal left are the ones being more like Hitler with their antisemitism. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[msc545]

No. Abortion is no different than murder - and that's why it needs to be illegal.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That is still your point of view. If that's the case we should make pro-lifes illegal just to be fair. You just said we are welcome to our beliefs and you are welcome to yours so what is it the case that you're making our beliefs illegal? You're just contradicting things.

@SolitarySolace look if you want to accuse me of being a liberal left just like Hitler then aren't we the ones trying to make laws for your point of view? No? However it's the other way around. Like you trying to make a death penalty for anyone who aborts. Sounds ironic if you say that.

[SolitarySolace]

Never once said I was for the death penalty, @Aiko_E_Lara. Don’t assume shit

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It doesn't have to be death penalty. It is still in fact that you are advocating it to be illegal. And yes in other places, anyone who does abortion gets death penalty and they are pro-lifes. And who is it who assumed about me being a liberal at first?

[slatyb]

They didn't, except when the life of the mother is endangered.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@slatyb A lot of the times they don't make any exceptions. And if you say "The mother's life is endangered", that applies to most accidental pregnancy which is harmful to the parents and even the child growing up for being unwanted.

[slatyb]

Women care about their own lives and being able to plan their families.

[SolitarySolace]

How is preventing a child from being born helping plan a family?

[slatyb]

By allowing her to delay having children until she is able to care for them.

Also a fetus is not a child.

[SolitarySolace]

You speak as if she’s the only one taking care of the child. As if a man didn’t participate in the creation of said child and also wanted to be a parent. He is the one who would be paying child support, not her. In my honest opinion I think child support should be abolished. That or at least only used as a punishment.

[slatyb]

Child support is not a punishment for the father -- it's literally for the support of the child he fathered.

[msc545]

You apparently think names mean something, and you keep referring to them as if they actually described the thing named: A fetus IS a child no matter what names you make up for it.

And conveniently, it IS a financial punishment for the father. Its called support, but most often women spend it on themselves.

[slatyb]

@msc545 A fetus is not a child no matter how much you want to pretend that it is.

[msc545]

Yes, well calling you to fetus does not make it anything different. Americans have a bad habit of making up names for people that they intend to kill or punish, which makes it easier for them to live with their bad behavior. In this case, the only reason you want to call it a fetus is because you are in favor of women murdering it and therefore calling it a fetus makes it easier for you to support such things. Even though you feel guilty about it as well, you should.

[slatyb]

@msc545 I'm calling a fetus because that is the word we use. Most importantly, it is clear that consciousness doesn't begin until well into the third trimester. Until then there's no one there.

[msc545]

I see. Well, since you have such opinions about consciousness, why don't you just go ahead and describe for everyone what consciousness is and where in the brain or where in the body where in the world it resides? You really cannot just simply mention consciousness without being able to do these minimal things.

[slatyb]

@msc545 I don't have to do that. Unless you believe in magic, and I don't, consciousness is an emergent phenomenon from brain development. We kill food animals by the millions that are far more conscious than a 12-week fetus.

[msc545]

Define consciousness.

[slatyb]

@msc545 I don't have to that either. It's on you to explain why a microscopic blob of protoplasm has any rights.

[Redstang88]

Nope