Is Democracy a bad idea?

[Siri137]

Look at me! Look at me!

Aren't elections just popularity contests where the one with the greatest media exposure (and cash, to pay for that exposure) ends up winning? Isn't 'democracy' basically mob rule? Are ordinary schmucks really qualified to select the person or party that will in the end up running a nation? I mean, just look at those people in the photo there. Do you think any one of them is even qualified to run a chook raffle?

Updates

+1 y

Okay, a few (simple) definitions:
Democracy - rule of the majority via representation.
Republic - non hereditary head of state, referred to as a president.
Monarchy - hereditary form of government, that can be either absolutist or democratic (ex. Spain, Denmark).
Dictatorship - a tyrannical government that acquired power via brute force, and basically does what it pleases, and this form of governance can be established as either a monarchy or a republic (but it's almost always a republic).

[ProbablyClueless]

Democracy is an awful idea, but we don't seem to have a better one available to us at the moment.

I've really been coming around to the idea of a monarchy lately though.

[goaded]

Monarchy did finally get rid of Mussolini.

[Siri137]

Italy under Mussolini was a monarchy. People here really don't seem to understand what terms like 'democracy', 'republic' and 'fascism' actually mean!

[Dargil]

Pure Democracy (mob rule) is bad.
Representative Democracy (a Republic) is good.

[blueonblack22]

So what the alternative? Dictatorships?

Although I will admit the two party election system in the USA is completely broken. I think the RNC and the DNC should be forced to give Americans the top three candidates. Not just one.

Really pissed off and disgusted about how leftists called anybody and everybody who voted for Trump in 2016 a “Trump supporter” all the way trough 2020. You don’t see republicans calling everybody who voted for Biden a “Biden supporter” despite his gross incompetence at being president.

[Siri137]

Actually, you do come across Republicans (as in, the party in the U. S. and not the way I mean the word in this question) calling people "Biden supporters". Maybe it doesn't happen as often, but it does happen.

[blueonblack22]

I have never in my life heard a Republican use the exact phrase “Biden supporter” to label a Democrat. Maybe it has happened. But if so it’s exceedingly rare.

[monorprise]

@blueonblack22
The 2 party system does force both candidates to generally get a majority support of the whole union. As appose to what you get with simply the largest and most radical minority in a multi-party system.

Where it fails is where one or both parties rig their own primaries or simply refuse to have them such as the democrats are now doing.

[blueonblack22]

@monorprise what do you propose for a change? Why can’t it be on the DNC side: Biden, RFK, Joe Manchin and the RNC side: Trump, DeSantis and Nikki Haley? We can’t we have all those candidates on the ticket in a general election?

I am not opposed to the idea of popular vote vs. electoral vote if the multi DNC and RNC candidate nomination existed too.

If this existed then:

- candidates would waste less time and money beating the sh*t out of each other in the primaries.
- candidates could be more authentic in their campaigning vs changing their messaging just to beat out other candidates.
- people could actually vote for the candidate they really want vs. the one they are forced to settle with.
- people could vote more for what they really want vs voting AGAINST who they don’t want
- even if the unpopular candidate wins via the party you align with at least you can say you didn’t for the asshole.

I personally would of never voted Trump in the general election if they were two other RNC backed. But hell would have to freeze over before I voted for any modern era democratic candidates. Maybe and distant maybe I would vote for RFK or Joe Manchin. But Biden no and f*ck no.

[monorprise]

In any 'democracy' the more different people and issues involved the smaller the level of possable agreement. It really doesn't matter how you resolve those difference, the fact that nearly everyone is in a minority on most issues in reality means almost everyone won't like the compromise regardless of how it is made.

@blueonblack22 What you are suggesting would only give you an agreeable first round pick who for nearly everyone would go on to lose to one of the "more agreeable" first round picks of anther section of the union.

Either via them being the largest minority ( we are talking maybe less than 1/15th at our federal level), or via some higher level game theory compromising such as we already see in party primaries.

Either way nearly everyone ends up with an equally disagreeable outcome.

Your not changing anything by simply changing the place where the compromise takes place. Alternative voting systems such as instant run offs might make backroom dealing less likely but your still going to get the same disagreeable outcome.

If you want a more agreeable goverment or the freedom to try something new you got to have a decentralized system where people can choose to live among those who agree with them. IE segregate themselfs.

[RoseySarah]

Really probably kinda?

Most people don't want to deal with voting now.

Voter fraud is all time high and no one arrested for violations.

At least the rules need to be inforced.

Many times people just break the system go to like 8 voter polls and use their info or just make crap up.

Pretty easy to pay someone to do like 100 votes for the person you want.

Simply it is a popularity contest but a good leader should be able to win it.

Yet now it's just who is hot and viral for president.

[KhunMike]

The notion of a representative Republic is a failed experiment. The leader of the free world has dementia.
He's the laughing stock of the world.
His approval rate is in the toilet.

Rose,
Let me ask you a few questions.

1. Do you want our border to be open to terrorists?
2. Do you think we need term limits on these career dinosaurs in politics?
3. Should we give drug addicts more drugs?
4. Should homeless Americans be living on the sidewalk, while illegal aliens are put up in fancy hotels?
If you and I could vote on these issues, we can fix the country.

[sparklycoconut]

just lie upon lie

[sparklycoconut]

@KhunMike there are terrorists within our own borders. they're called qanon, proud boys, boogaloo boys, christian and white nationalists. but their terror doesn't impact your life so i guess that doesn't matter to you

[KhunMike]

@sparklycoconut

I was talking to the OTHER Rosey.
Grow the fuck up.

[sparklycoconut]

@KhunMike your world view is uninformed and uncurious. i would change that if i were you

[KhunMike]

@sparklycoconut

How much can I pay you to shut the fuck up and go away? You're a loser. I wanted to talk to Rosey.
She interests me, and you're a dork. Can you take a hint?

[RoseySarah]

@KhunMike love how both of you are proud keyboard warriors

Byes

Fix schools 🏫 and free pills not condoms in schools

[KhunMike]

As are you.

[sparklycoconut]

@KhunMike lol it's an open forum. block me then

[sparklycoconut]

"everyone's a keyboard warrior except for me"
literally keyboard warrior means nothing.

[WilmaReportц]

Rest assured, should your inquiry transform into a platform for hate speech, discrimination, or the promotion of violence, I will not hesitate to activate my trusty rainbow-colored vibrator. It shall buzz with the intensity of justice as I report any violations of our community guidelines to the esteemed administrators and make this platform

SAFE FOR DEMOCRACY

Consider this a gentle reminder to engage with respect and open-mindedness, for failure to comply with these principles may result in the formidable vibration of my report button.

[Anonymous]

Yes democracy is a terrible system, thats why America was founded as a Constitutional Republic. That is to stay an indirect democracy with rules built upon the very widespread consent of the governed.

We lost that republic when the hand picked politicians in black robes ceased to be checked by anyone with any interest in the limits of that Constitutions. Thus making them and the politicians who hand picked them effectively lawless.

This happened depending upon your point of view at different points in history to different degrees, case by case enforcement by encroachment.

The final straw which really prevented the people from ever restoring the consent of the govern was the 'Civil War' where we lost the right to walk away.

If we want to restore the Republic we have figure out how to make politicians elected and otherwise accountable to the limits of the constitution.

[strateguy632]

i partially agree democracy flawed so better a republic.

not about exposure, proof is: ALL advertise, that doesn't help, so not about popularity, because only some CONVINCE voters.

about mob rule, that is why u. s. used indirdct electoral. if the mob chose "wrong" like immoral, the elector can go against majority but usually all electors are whichever majority. with a few exceptions. like Washington state etc.

[Siri137]

Yet another person who doesn't seem to understand that democratic nations can also be republics. In fact, many of them are.

[Anonymous]

Republicans, fascists and dictators all say it is. So I'm going to say no it isn't.

It's only recently that the GOP are brave enough to say the quiet part out loud, that for all their talk of States rights they really really don't like giving the public a choice or a voice.

[Siri137]

Republicans? Many democracies are republics as well.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm talking about the right-wing political party of America which is openly embracing totalitarianism now. Look at what they say, from Santorum the other day back to Senator Mick Lee in 2020.

[Siri137]

Ah, don't be so melodramatic!

[Opinion Owner]

When a fascist tells you he's a fascist, believe him. They've openly admitted their goals now.

[Siri137]

No, don't talk rubbish. Now you're just lying, and I hate liars.

[Unit1]

I prefer democracy over whatever the governments of Russia, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Congo, North Korea and China are doing.

But of course democracy isn't real either. The handful politicians with the biggest power, money and influence rule their nations. Voting is just a show to distract us or in some cases expose the "enemies of the state".

[Unit1]

In other words, I prefer whatever is going on where the average citizen lives like so




NOT like so

[Siri137]

The first two images look really nice. I'd love to live in a neighbourhood like that :)

[Unit1]

Exactly my point.
Now simply speaking, these areas are more accessible to average citizens in regions, where - guess what? - has some type of "democracy". No other system known to me offers these same comforts to the average citizen.

[RavVid]

I don't think the people in the pic could organize a fuck in a brothel.

Yeah it's a conundrum. The worst of it is that buying votes works. So subsidizing various segments just keeps growing which of course screws other segments.

I have to ask how well does democracy work when gov'ts can keep increasing taxes on alcohol and gas/petrol? Democracy should result in no taxes given the number of drinkers and drivers there are.

[andreasderjuengere]

Each good idea sooner or later is perverted by some 'wrong' people.

Democracy nowadays is mostly a mix of entertainment for the masses, brainwash/manipulation and self delusion.

Anyhow: with too many sheep on this planet, we as well can stick with it.

[Exterminatore]

Yeah it’s a bad idea. We vote for our representatives and they pretend to represent us…. while they stuff their pockets full of corporate money. The whole thing is an illusion. Not one of these whores care about anything other then filling their bank accounts while pretending to represent people other than their corporate masters.

[SotiCoto]

It doesn't achieve anything, if that is what you're asking.
Most countries are ruled by capitalist cunts one way or another, and "democracy" is just a means of tricking the regular people into believing they have any sort of say in it, or worse yet, that they're responsible for it.

[bolverk]

No, Democracy is nor a bad idea, as long as the elections are secure and cannot be tampered with by any of the political parties, We've seen in this article that tampering by political parties exist and elections have to be secure to prevent this. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/nyregion/bridgeport-connecticut-mayor-election.html

[sparklycoconut]

there is no evidence that this kind of election insecurity is anything to worry about

[sawno]

Democracy is a great idea for a sufficiently harmonized country, but we don't have many democracies. Democratically elected dictatorships don't work and thats the majority of "Democracies" out there.

[goaded]

Wouldn't Republicans and other fascists want you to believe that? As long as you can have genuine elections, you can change the direction of your country. Why else would fascists want to suspend constitutions and elections?

[Siri137]

Fascism was established by Benito Mussolini in Italy, which at the time was a monarchy, not a republic. So no, republicans aren't necessarily fascists. You cannot equate the two.

[goaded]

I used a capital R for a reason! Lower case means nothing more than not wanting a monarchy as head of state, afaik.

[Siri137]

Afaik? Is that Arabic?

[goaded]

As Far As I Know. (That is to say, that's what it's an acronym for, not that I think it might be an arabic word. I wonder if it is!)

[coachTanthony]

Yes just elect me for 20 years and if you speak out you will go to jail. I will lay the hammer down on everyone.

[AaronKrieger]

This post reminded me of this video

https://www.youtube.com/embed/De4_ZqMwuOg

[NathanDavis]

democracy with only two options and none of other... is not the actual concept of democracy

[goaded]

Instant runoff voting and a dozen candidates for president!

[NathanDavis]

@goaded it would be a lot more difficult for lobbyists and all those big companies to get a hold and to bribe more than just, always the same two parties...

the more people that want the same cake... the smaller the slices will be... and the more difficult to keep them satisfied

both Democrat and Republicans have too much to gain and little to lose as they serve those who pay them under the table

they've never been by the people nor for the people... not since I've around, anyway

[slatyb]

@goaded Who would you like to see running for President! I would pick Gretchen Whitmer.

[goaded]

@slatyb Bernie! Or someone like him.

[Exterminatore]

@nathan

Right, you have option A who is a whore for corporate money and option B who is exactly the same. Oh they sound different but they are not when we look at their voting records and when we see the policies they pass.

[Joshydavid25]

Full on Democracy is a bad idea.. Mob choice isn't always a good thing, but democracy with representation or a "Republic" while not perfect, seemed to work well enough..

[KostasKouvalis]

Someone's feeling political

I think we should just leave Someone in office until people get tired of them. If they're doing a shit job, like Biden, why leave them. And if they're doing a good job, why replace them?

[Anonymous]

Hitler and Plato said it was a bad idea. You need a strong leader at the top. Hitler said politicians just allow their country to be sold off. Thats why he got Germany out of the third word and into the richest country on earth. The politicians allowed it so he stopped this.

[RingOfFire]

Democracy is a terrible idea!

The only kind of government that is worse is all the others.

[Anonymous]

My people for centuries lived under the tyranny of a monarch. It was no picnic.

[Rangers]

Only people who know what they're doing should vote

[love_conquers_lust]

Liberal democracy is what the US is. Not all votes are created equally.

[KrakenAttackin]

I used to think so, but we are voting our way into tyranny. You can only shoot your way out of tyranny.

[Amur8711]

If we were a true democracy in the US, people that live in the country sides voices would never be heard.

[dudeinohio]

I'd prefer a nice military dictatorship based on law and order... but that's just me.

[CaptainSmartass]

Politics is a bad idea, full stop.

Simples...

[m33ladEmjay]

Voting means nothing.. Voting is all just one big show.

[QuietRunner]

Democracies are bad ideas yes

Republics are great ideas

[Siri137]

A republic can also be a democracy. The two are not mutually exclusive, and, in fact, many nations now are both.

[QuietRunner]

I"m talking about the strict definitions. The two are mutually exclusive. Otherwise you'd be voting on every issue.

[Siri137]

Oh for goodness sake! People here don't seem to understand even the basic definitions of the terms I've used.
In a democracy you don't - do NOT - "vote on every issue". Germany is a republic. As is France. They're both democracies, so no, you're wrong about the two being mutually exclusive. They're both representative democracies.

[Snakeyes7]

Very bad idea. It is nicknamed "mob rule" for a reason.

[BLP11520]

The founding fathers did a good job modern CROOKED politicians messed it up.

[Anonymous]

I like that photo of all those professional paid protestors.

[midnightmoon05]

You have a better system?

[gorydetails]

Yup. A constitutional representative republic.

[Siri137]

Maybe, maybe not. The point is that democratic systems of governance do have some serious flaws, and too often these are overlooked.

[sparklycoconut]

maybe not? there are pros and cons to all systems of government except ones that centralize power.

[Siri137]

@gorydetails In other words, a democracy. Constitutional representative republics are democracies. How could you not know that?

[gorydetails]

That’s not a democracy. Jesus. A democracy is majority rule.

[Siri137]

@gorydetails Yes, majority rule. That's what I say in my update above, but the majority select REPRESENTATIVES do they not? And don't blaspheme!

[sparklycoconut]

it's not a direct democracy 🤦🏽‍♀️

[Siri137]

@sparklycoconut But it's still a democracy; a representative one! Democracies don't have to be "direct" you know.

[gorydetails]

Does the pledge of allegiance say “and to the republic for which it stands”?

[Siri137]

@gorydetails How would I know? I'm not a Yank, I've never said it.

[gorydetails]

So then how do you presume to school me over whether the US is a democracy or a republic?

[Siri137]

@gorydetails The US is BOTH. In theory at least anyway.

[gorydetails]

The representatives are democratically elected, that doesn’t make the US a democracy.

[Siri137]

@gorydetails Did you even READ what you wrote here? They're "democratically" ELECTED, but the US still isn't a democracy. You are one really confused individual.

[gorydetails]

What I typed is correct. I really don’t know how to explain it anymore to someone as dumb as you.

[Radiate143]

Yeah. Really shit system.

[gorydetails]

Democracy is tyranny of the majority.

[Siri137]

I suppose that's better than the tyranny of the minority.

[gorydetails]

Better hope you’re never on a deserted island with three guys who are voting on who gets fucked

[Siri137]

That doesn't address my objection. Would you rather be ruled by a group that represents perhaps less than 20% of the people?

[BoobMan]

Compared to what?

[ChefPapiChulo]

you need to work on your education.

[OddBeMe]

If only voters were smarter.

[whistlingwh0res]

Republicans are

[whistlingwh0res]

I don't know.. all I know is meow

[jimmy2]

No it's ideal until they cheat