Why dont pro lifers admit that abortion is not murder and will never be legally defined as murder?

[Anonymous]

It's a medical procedure and will never be classified as murder. I don't care if you feel women are getting away with it, it's not up to you to punish women who get abortion.

[lightbulb27]

being mad is a defense mechanism.

proving it's not murder seems irrelevant. that's a definition and in their reality, someone is being killed... and that's wrong.

Why do people get mad when you throw a pie in their face?

Do you get mad when someone stabs you with a knife? Why? It's not murder, just a stab. The fetuses actually cease to exist and I understand the fetuses have senses and react, even when they can't express it. So maybe the thing with you would be to stab you when you are tied up voice, can't hear and can't see. Then it's about the same.

To me... that's a silly argument... it's not murder. How disgusting a thought.

I'm not opposed to it. If poeple want to murder or kill or otherwise slaughter their unborn own offspring, it's not much of my business. I'm not involved, I'm as involved as Jesus was, or Mahatma Ghandi. The times I know of this happening... the people are emotionally screwed up. In that regard, the relgious right is correct, the wages of sin is death. In this case, the weakest voice payed the price... and does not exist in time and space. It... was killed by it's parent. Murdered... I don't know nor care.

[strateguy632]

would you "mind your own business " if you knew domestic abuse? a spouse beating or hitting their spouse? society DOES interfere for victims

[lightbulb27]

@strateguy632 you have a good point, when one over powers the other, society steps in. In this case, the one cannot defend themselves... at all.
The issue is that life is dependent upon others to care for them. If they'd like to murder/kill/slaughter them dead before they breathe... are they going to properly care for their emotional/physical needs or find someone whom does?
That's the essence of my position which is... I favor life, supporting life and giving life a chance... since it has started. But if the adults... if we can call them that... see no other option, how am I going to save that life? Forcing them to exist into the hands of someone that rejects them... is highly questionable. I don't think Jesus would do that...

[strateguy632]

because truth is important and we dont wanna lie in contrast to agnostics. if nobody gets HEALED FROM ILLNESS it is not realy health... just plastic surgery with a DEAD victim.

[kylee2437]

Because pro lifers like having control over other peoples lives

[strateguy632]

control? you can choose almost anything except kill your toddler and same before birth.

[kylee2437]

@strateguy632 considering you don’t even know what age classifies a baby as a toddler, I think your dumb opinions hold no weight. ☺️

[bededazzle]

i get where you’re coming from but essentially both sides are looking for control really. in society, wanting autonomy, while a reasonable desire, represent a control over social forces

[kylee2437]

@bedrdazzle sorry but that’s bullshit. You can’t say pro choice wants control when the word choice and control do not belong in the same bin

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle

[Amuere]

I'm "pro-life" in a sense that I believe abortion should only be used in extreme circumstances (and not willy nilly).

The issue with many so called pro-lifers (a more apt name for most would be "anti-abortionists") is that they use the term "murder" which is a legal term, by definition and abortion is not a murder since a fetus does not have legal personhood. They are starting with an undefendable assertion, and get irritated when they can't convince you. It's a flaw of many ppls' ideas that they conflate legality with morality, the two are not the same.

[syncheart]

Just so everyone know where I stand. I'm pro life. With that being said, anyone who attaches some of their identity to an ideology will get upset when that ideology gets threatened. In this case, to them having an abortion is the same as if someone killed your grandpa or other family member. Those are really strong feelings and beliefs.

[Asker]

They maybe strong feelings but it's not correct or right no matter how they feel.

[Asker]

I don't care how arrogant or dismissive that sounds I'm sick of trying to understand the pro life side when most of you are just interested in slut shaming and punishing the pro choices and women who get abortions.

[syncheart]

Taking it out on me won't get you anywhere. I merely tried to answer your question.

[Asker]

Did I blame you, no I didn't maybe if you weren't so defensive and listen to the pro choice side then you wouldn't be bringing up appeal to emotion arguments and debate logically and see for yourself how the pro life side is wrong.

[bededazzle]

I believe disagreement happens on both sides if the convictions are strong

[Amuere]

I'm pro-life, and agree that most people how claim the title have no actual interest in the lives involved, not the mother, nor the child. Like the rest of their positions, since these people are usually conservatives, their interests are in controlling people namely women.

The most illogical version of it is full abortion bans, which really can't be morally defended in good faith.

[strateguy632]

exactly, we all hear about censoring "offensive" but pro choice is offensive and should equally get censored.
similarly claiming no god is offensive too, but nobody cares if christian gets "offended". we are lower than others who get offended?

[bededazzle]

@strateguy632 no one should be censored. you have a right to your belief. people have a right to offend others. what might help people in general is letting go of the idea that they can change the convictions of others. i am not christian and i still don’t think abortion in general is so great. but i also don’t really want to see a woman raped by her uncle have to bear his child. seems like it might not be so cut and dry. nothing is inherently offensive.

[Anonymous]

Because they know legal definitions can change, unlike the people who shares political views with the leftistfounders of the KKK, says racist shit about Clarence Thomas because SCOTUS made decisions they didn’t like and seeth over that black people have the option to vote, and choose to vote Right. You know the same racists who thinks people who are not white are too stupid to enter college on equal terms.

[BoopBoopBeep]

You can't logically disprove an emotional issue any more than you can dance about architecture.

[bededazzle]

thank you boopboopbeep

[BoopBoopBeep]

@bededazzle every so often i get a good one... that's my one for the day ;)

[jahaims]

Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Abortion is literally considered murder where it is illegal.

[Asker]

It is not legally defnied as murder so get over it.

[slatyb]

Why do religious believers become angry when you disagree with their beliefs?

[Unit1]

They want control.

If they were running a country, they'd turn it into something like China or Africa.

[strateguy632]

false fear tactics we already passed the abortion law in the house that doesn't do what you described despite rnc had the House and senate in 2016.

[Unit1]

@strateguy632 i have little understanding what you just said but if you mean some states have banned abortion and the country has not yet turned into China or Africa, that's kind of only the first step

[bededazzle]

lots of factions want control, especially those with their identities held together by their beliefs, which means both sides

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of abortion. Off topic

[Unit1]

@kylee2437 He was referring to the pro-life and pro-choice factions.

[kylee2437]

@Unit1 I think he was more so sending shots at people that identify as they/them etc , off topic

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 i was responding to unit1’s comment “they want control”. i think it was exploring the aspect of control to this issue

[bededazzle]

by the way no disrespect. i think you raise an interesting point

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle you cannot put choice and control in the same category.

[Unit1]

@bededazzle You got a point!

[Unit1]

@kylee2437 That's a good point too. Control here implies a person does not get to have a choice (on aborting or not).

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 really? could you explain? some people argue, as i think unit 1 was that prolife tries to control women’s bodies? if you disagree that’s cool

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle pro-choice caters to both spectrums whilst pro-life only caters to one side. Pro-choice is not forcing anyone to do anything - they just want options available to everyone around

[bededazzle]

oh no i assure you this isn’t the case

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 hm we may have to agree to disagree there

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle what I just stated is factual - if there’s choices for all that would mean you can live life not having any abortions whilst someone that needs /wants one can. It’s a fact. You sniffing your nose into another persons abortion is pure control and force of your own beliefs onto another person

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 the fight for autonomy is reasonable, but it is control over other pressures of society. nothing about this complex issue is really so factual i don’t think. but i mean, i respect your beliefs

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle where in your life have you seen any pro-choice person force someone to get an abortion?

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 in other words, this “freedom” is obviously not desired by all

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle a person wanting an abortion is not putting any pressure on anyone else that doesn’t believe in abortions

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle so if it’s not desired by all, mind your business and don’t have an abortion. Being pro life without an consideration is such a Karen stance

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle sorry but I don’t respect your opinion and that’s because your opinion affects my life

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 hm i believe they have to put pressure to fight for their beliefs. i get what you mean, but the situation is as it is. it’s maybe the most important social issue in our country. mind your business sounds nice if you believe in something, but that’s not the way things work. but i mean, you are maybe more personally invested than i am. i am an observer of both sides

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle but that’s the issue. How often are people on the pro life side not even phased by the topic because to you it’s just a belief? I’m fighting for my freedom, meanwhile you are fighting for your belief. That’s problematic

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 how do you know what i am fighting for? also i’m pretty sure pro lifers are a bit phased lol

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle you are phased about what someone else’s doing when it doesn’t affect you (definition of a Karen) and you said it yourself what you are fighting for! Your belief! You keep repeating the word belief!

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 it does affect you. some people feel concerned for the rights of the unborn, even if they are their children. international interest is why we have laws. no, i fight for peace. i see both sides, and i think a compromise may be possible, or who knows. but i understand both sides.

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 also, i would fight for your right to your beliefs as well

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle but are they actually concerned or is it more so they seem concerned because it gives validation to their control tactics?

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 i mean, i guess i can’t tell you for 100% sure, but iam pretty sure in this issue and many others that are complex, people will have opinions that come from a very personal, or a well-thought over place. but i don’t know all the pro-lifers, and i don’t usually talk to those people with big pictures of aborted fetuses lol

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle but again that’s the issue lol I can literally live my entire life without telling people I had an abortion (I didn’t but still) and not one single pro lifer would be affected or offended by me. If a pro lifer opens their mouth and is now placed into office here I am being affected on my ability to have a choice. Mind you I want kids, but I don’t want a kid for all the wrong reasons and that should be my choice

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 well, you’ll probably be good because the whole thing could take a while

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle but that’s not the point. I had a situation happy to me where I thankfully didn’t end up pregnant but if I did, I would’ve opted for an abortion and it’s because of circumstances in many different factors. But pro - lifers don’t care about anything else beyond that singular cell growing

[kylee2437]

Happen to me*

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 well, it may serve you, as it serves me, to talk to more people who don’t agree with you, as may happen on here. it doesn’t have to change your beliefs, but you may see the humanity in those who disagree, and they may have their own tragic stories. thank you for discussing with me! i wish you well! (don’t worry i will read any closing comments :)

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle but their tragic story is not my tragic story. I was 17 and raped by a guy I was mildly dating, and while I was not fit to be a parent, he is now in jail for 37 years for murder. Just thought I’d open up to give you a little insight that my story is not anyone else’s to toy with to rip apart to fit their own beliefs. People can fuck off

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 i’m so sorry to hear about that :( jeez that’s terrible. fair enough, you don’t have to do what i do obviously. i just hope you have peace in life

[kylee2437]

@bededazzle accepted but a better sorry would be for people to give that 17 year old girl, which mind you can be any other girl besides me a chance to decide what’s best for you because I definitely don’t and wouldn’t ever want a child from a situation like that

[kylee2437]

What’s best for her*

[bededazzle]

@kylee2437 can’t blame ya

[Friendlybro79]

Because they don't accept your logic. They reject it. It's that simple.

[Snakeyes7]

The only way you can disprove that is by pointing out that abortion is not legally classified as murder in the place you happen to be in.

[Twalli]

Because they say it's a human life. Nobody denies that it's alive though.

[strateguy632]

and its chromosomes are human.

[Twalli]

@strateguy632 yet at a certain point it is identical in look to that of an elephant's and pig's.

[kylee2437]

@strateguy632 your lack of knowledge when it comes to child developmental is problematic.

[kylee2437]

Development*

[Twalli]

@kylee2437 actually I know a fair bit, yet I don't consider a fetus a child.

[kylee2437]

@Twalli exactly my point. @strateguy632 also called an unborn fetus a toddler on my comment , which is just scary that people dabble into talk about this topic without even knowing words that they are using

[bededazzle]

it's a bit of a sensitive issue