Do you believe war crimes are war crimes, no matter who commits them?

[msc545]

[Screenwriter]

Yep. It doesn't matter who is the aggressor. Killing unarmed civilians puts any side low on the totem pole.

But, during WWII, America bombed Germany into dust and no one said much about the U. S. being war criminals BECAUSE of how ruthless Hitler had been killing practically every group of people he didn't want to have in the Third Reich. In addition, the U. S. dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The majority of people in those cities were civilians. Sure, they were manufacturing munitions, and war support, but 90 percent of what went on in those cities was people simply living lives.

The whole point of carpet bombing is precisely to DEMORALIZE the citizenry, government and military to stop fighting, because otherwise, the more powerful side might crush the other. This often works, though in the case of Vietnam, it failed miserably. It's hard to squash guerrilla warfare.

Hamas, however, is a philosophy that has morphed into an armed group. This reminds me of the IRA in Ireland. It took a loooong time for "The Troubles" to be resolved. It seems that the Hamas debacle is cut from the same cloth.

And in Ireland, the difference between the two groups, similarly, was religion. In Israel/Palestine, there is religion, but also language and culture. Similarly, there is a socio-economic divide, whereas Catholics were second-class, just as Islamic people are second-class in Israel, and in general.

When a singularly group is kept down, eventually, a social explosion occurs. Sometimes it can be more peaceful, like M. L. King tried to do with black people in America. But this hasn't been the case in Israel. I don't know what the difference is. But this seething level of hate has to be resolved, or both sides will end up sorry.

Northern Ireland is a good case in point.

[Daniela1982]

You mean like how the US firebombed civilians during WWII in both Japan and Germany, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians? But no, that was war, just like it is in Palestine and initiated by Hamas.

[Screenwriter]

@Daniela1982 That is precisely what I spoke about above. The IRA firebombed and killed people in the same way Hamas has done: blowing up and killing their own people. Hiding beneath hospitals, mosques and schools, and placing their munitions and/or hiding there. Yep. It's war. And it's all about winning by any means possible. Sad to say.

[Daniela1982]

@Screenwriter Turns out that Hamas has been building tunnels into Israel. If you recall during WWI both sides dug tunnels under the trenches and packed them with tons of explosives. Then they detonated them and killed many thousands of enemy soldiers. Could this be the reason of the Hamas tunnels too?

[msc545]

I think the tunnels were dug primarily to allow people in Gaza to pass into Israel and back and forth without having to encounter the Israeli military and border police who used to torment and shoot them. I doubt the tunnels were used from munitions given how carefully they were made and how comfortable they appeared, at least for tunnels.

[Screenwriter]

The interesting thing is that Israel knew of these tunnels and appeared to take a "wait and see" attitude about them. Someone I know said she thought Israel was looking for an excuse to attack Hamas, so therefore did NOT stop the tunneling. I don't know what to think about it.

[AutumnSerenity]

I’m politically independent and I don’t care for biases so, yes, I agree that war crimes are war crimes - no matter who commits them.

[BoopBoopBeep]

I don't believe in war crimes. I believe in total war. I've seen what happens when we drag war out for 20 years and that's not kind to the belligerents either. Be fast and dirty and win decisively. Japan beat Afghanistan any day of the week. Most of the Japanese and Afghans would agree with that. Then you don't end up with generational conflict, you're done in a couple years, tops.

Pragmatically, "War crimes" only apply to signatories of outdated conventions who aren't likely to go to war anyways. The protections of the geneva convention were never provided to me in the first place because I wasn't fighting anyone who gave a shite about them, but even if I'd been fighting another signatory power, saboteurs and spies are still subject to summary execution, so they still wouldn't have applied.

We used to line up across the field from one another, fire and march, rinse and repeat. War changes. If people saw how ugly it REALLY was, and especially how ugly it is when the gloves come off, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to start them and send other people to fight them.

[msc545]

Not to mention the criminal things that are done to the men that actually have to fight these wars. Nobody asks for their permission.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Yeah... it's going to suck either way. It's going to be horrible for everybody, but it should. Cause people to think about who they're letting make decisions.

[msc545]

I think you have more experience with this than I do, but in my limited experience it seems to me that the people that make these bad decisions wind up getting a lot of support, at least from people who are uninvolved in the war but are also the people who have the power to elect them or put them in power. I know that's a mess but it's early in the morning here and I'm sort of tired. Sorry.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Yeah, except it's not just the MIC that's in favor of it. All the do-gooders that follow are just as to blame for it. We go into afghanistan, F 'em up. Could have pulled out in a year, but everybody wants to build shite and make it a new democracy despite the fact that just don't work for some people, and "let's stay and feed the farmers" and that happy horseshite... well you can't do any of that stuff if the guys with guns go home, so now that's going to compound the violence because you're "let's empower the women" nonsense only works as long as foreigners with guns are there keeping those "empowered" women from getting stoned to death. People at home love to vote for shiny happy shite so they can feel good about their lack of ACTUAL give a shite, so we'll "peacekeep" the hell out of some people. Forgot who said it, but an apology is best received after a punch in the nose.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

I don't believe in war crimes.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Thanks for MHO :)

[NathanDavis]

war is always a crime by itself...

that's my belief

[Worrying]

Exactly!

[AMS700CX4u2]

Crimes against Humanity? War Crimes? I think when a society turns it's weaponry upon it's own citizens. Then the world becomes the judge. How far back are we limiting our exposure to.

[RealMarek]

Yes, of course, even though the USG disagrees. I’m used to hearing a lot of complicated statements about this from hawkish Americans.

[Anonymous]

Yes. For instance the Palestinians executed many Jews

[Worrying]

To me, all wars are crime.

[Anonymous]

Indeedz execution should be metered out in all cases

[grega239]

Yes. But then again the concept of war crimes is a joke.

[exitseven]

No if Americans do it they are not war crimes.

[msc545]

They are not treated as war crimes. They are STILL war crimes.

[exitseven]

If it walks like a duck...

[AngryCarl]

No, only losers commit war crimes.

[Astarlessnightsky]

Sure

[CovetedDUCHESS]

Obviously?

[miaorkitty]

Only losers complain about war crimes.

[msc545]

That is because losers tend to be the victims of war crimes.