Did you read about the decision in the Trump civil fraud case?

[msc545]

"A New York judge on Friday handed Donald J. Trump a crushing defeat in his civil fraud case, finding the former president liable for conspiring to manipulate his net worth and ordering him to pay a penalty of nearly $355 million plus interest that could wipe out his entire stockpile of cash.

Justice Engoron barred Mr. Trump for three years from serving in top roles at any New York company, including portions of his own Trump Organization. He also imposed a two-year ban on the former president’s adult sons and ordered that they pay more than $4 million each.

The judge also ordered that they pay substantial interest, pushing the penalty for the former president to $450 million, according to the attorney general, Letitia James.

Justice Engoron criticized Mr. Trump and the other defendants for refusing to admit wrongdoing for years. “Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,” he said."

[lightbulb27]

I heard. wow... major slam. not shocking given how the process went. what happens appeal? Of what little I heard, I thought the process was strange. a liberal judge makes decisions?

what I'd wonder is if this goes through... how many more lawsuits are behind it. ya think it's the one time he fibed or over sold his value? and how many others have done the same.

all this at a time when these buildings are ghost towns, the market is shaky at best in the commercial space, and govt could use more housing and income to cover some of their decisions and choices.

I suspect the result could be... nyc continues it's decline... and a "giant sucking sound" is heard, or maybe a "slurp". Most of the smart people live in other states already, but we shall see. Reason being... they all lie... that's wall street. you own some stocks.. they lie because they have patents and trademarks and such blah blah... accounting. how about all those Jewish people in nyc passing $ around probably without paying taxes... they next? Don't forget about the chinese doing the same... under the table cash businesses.

fair's fair... should be a good tiem to be a lawyer in nyc...

[ProbablyClueless]

I'm half tempted to set up a legal practice in NYC. Might be good money

[lightbulb27]

@ProbablyClueless you'd do well. just stay away from the mob.

[ProbablyClueless]

I did read about that. The ruling wasn't surprising, when you think about how the rest of the trial was conducted, but it's just another example of the kind of behavior that I'm concerned has turned the public sentiment IN FAVOR OF TRUMP.

The trial itself was bizarre in that Trump's conduct didn't result in any injured party. Regardless of whether Trump actually committed a fraud; the lender did their own checks and agreed with Trump's valuations to approve the loans, and then Trump paid the loans back in full. There wasn't any real standing for a party to bring suit. The lender saw their money back, the tax code was upheld/followed. So the fact the case was brought at all is bizarre.

And then on top of that, the ruling was incredibly punitive and heavy-handed. On top of the money damages being paid to a party that wasn't injured; Trump is barred from conducting business in the state of NY for 3 years. The judge talks about how Trump isn't remorseful for committing fraud, but why would he be when no one got injured, he followed the law, and the banks independently verified his valuations?

A lot of people look at the way these lawsuits are being conducted and they have sympathy for Trump.

[msc545]

The lenders would have made more money had Trump not lied and engaged in fraud. He also cheated on his taxes, and the taxing agencies would have collected more money had he not done so.

[ProbablyClueless]

No they wouldn't. Lenders make more money by lending more money. And the tax agencies collect money based upon the tax code, which Trump followed.

[ProbablyClueless]

Now, there's certainly a conversation to be had about whether the tax code needs to change, but the man followed the law.

[QuietRunner]

Also if his property was overvalued will Trump be refunded taxes paid to New York State on property taxes

[msc545]

I realize this is a simple concept, but try to follow along. If you overvalue property or other things to obtain loans or if you undervalue it to pay less taxes, those things are against the law. That is what Trump did in both cases and that is how he broke the law and that is why he was prosecuted. Your assertions that he didn't break any laws are simply ignorant.

[ProbablyClueless]

I realize that this is a simple concept, but try to follow along. Banks don't just give out loans; they have people called "appraisers" to authenticate the valuations a prospective client puts in front of them. They don't trust people to be honest with their valuation.

If the bank felt that Trump's valuation was dishonest, they wouldn't have given him a loan. The IRS also has people called "Auditors" who look over people's taxes and conduct checks on businesses to verify that taxes are being completed correctly.

Both the IRS and lending banks have performed many audits and many verifications of Trump's finances over the years. They found that Trump followed the law.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Trump, got his relatives who will supply him with lots of money, we got to remember if they don't do what daddy says they will be up to shit creek without a paddle as the old saying LMAO

[msc545]

Your overlooking the fact that his relatives got all or at least most of their money from his criminal enterprises. Those are not going to make money anymore.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, you are right

[coachTanthony]

I think a lot of this stuff is a witch hunt but having said that you can't lie about how much you make in order to get a better loan... if that is what happened then he should pay.

[goaded]

He did, and he should.

[coachTanthony]

@goaded LOL

[QuietRunner]

So can I sue any car dealer now that doesn't list prices by the Kelly Blue Book value?

If someone values a thing at at certain amount and someone else agrees, what is wrong?

Do we need third party validation on egg prices at the grocery store?

[HouseMoat]

Long time coming. He'll try and appeal it, and even take it to the supreme court but, this is long time coming for him. He had to start a go fund me, LMAO

[Dargil]

All the cases will ultimately fail ant he will be inaugurated next year.

[exitseven]

It will be overturned on appeal. Trump will be elected in a landslide and the Bidens will pe prosecuted and nor for some fake, made up charge. It will be for bribery and treason

[msc545]

Good luck with this.

[exitseven]

They brought this on themselves.

[msc545]

No conversely Trump brought this on himself. He decided to try and save money by undervaluing property and decided to try and get more money from lenders by overvaluing property. Unless he is even more stupid than I think he is, he knew the potential consequences when he did this.

[exitseven]

No, democrats have weaponized the justice system. Thys are finding out that even with the DOJ making uop all these fake charges , the American people are not fooled.
When Trump gets back in the White House he has already vowed to hire a REAL prosecutor and have the Biden crime family totally investigated and charged for all the crimes that they have committed. Biden will not have any Presidential immunity since it has been denied President.
Trump. Joe Biden might be spared a prison sentence due to his age and mental stratus but his son will certainly do a nice long stretch.

[msc545]

Bet me some real money. When your cult leader is finally in prison, What will you say then?

[exitseven]

He is not going to spend a day in jail. The next stop for him is the White House. That fake judge in New York did him a favor. Even the in the tank Associated Press has come out and said "An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses."

[RefriedBeans]

Did the judge say who the victim (s) are?

[msc545]

Yes, the victims are the institutions that loaned him money or were supposed to collect taxes from him.

[RefriedBeans]

So why didn't the institutions sue him for the damages they suffered? Why is the government doing this?

Have you ever looked at the property value of coastal real estate in Florida? If not, do it right now. It's very easy to see. Have you seen Mar-A-Lago? It's between the Florida coast, and the Intercoastal Waterway.

Do you believe in logic, or do you just believe in your blind-hatred for Trump? When Trump is gone, who will be your new villain in life? Do you need a villain in order to be happy in your life?

The special council said that it's OK that Biden broke the law while storing classified documents in his garage, because he's senile. Wait, what? You can commit crimes if you're senile?

So does your hatred for the orange man, override the fact that your guy can commit crimes, because he's senile? Really?

[msc545]

The reason the government prosecuted him is because he broke the law. Perhaps you've heard of breaking the law and the usual consequences for most people? Despite the fact that he has money, apparently Trump is no different from the rest of us. In that he too needs to follow the law and if he doesn't, there are consequences. You can impute any motivation you want to those that prosecute him, but they would do the same and often do to people with far less money or notoriety.

What he did was actually a form of theft and as it turns out theft is illegal. We prosecute thieves. We do that to discourage others from committing theft. It's a very antisocial crime.

[RefriedBeans]

"form of theft" What did he steal?

"We prosecute thieves. " Not if their name is Biden.

Just admit it, there isn't a Democrat that can beat Trump, so they're just getting rid of him.

[msc545]

What he stole was financial opportunities. More importantly, we don't really have to debate that given the fact that he broke old black letter laws that are not in question at this time. Looks like you're going to need a new cult leader because this isn't the end of his troubles. This is just the beginning.

[msc545]

If you think Biden has stolen something, then provide the evidence. Your fellow cultists in the Republican party don't seem capable of providing any evidence and about all they can do is run their mouths.

[Drewtate]

Biden regime strikes again.