Should men be able to sue women who kill their unborn children?

[msc545]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2024/05/03/texas-abortion-investigations/?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wp_news_alert_revere&location=alert

Yes

No

[Anonymous]

It is not a nine-month inconvenience. It is an 18-year or longer commitment. I am pro-life, but I think a lot of pro-life people miss the big picture. Men need to stop having unprotected sex with women, period. It is the man's responsibility to ensure he does not unduly burden a woman he is not planning to support and commit to for the sake of children. Abortion exists because of men not taking responsibility. I know I will get a lot of anger for this, but I am tired of people claiming to be pro-life and not really grasping what it means for a pregnant teenager to surrender 20 years of her life to ridicule, shame, lack of support, inability to further her education, and men blaming her for her choice to have the baby. Do you understand the shaming that happens to single moms? The men who insult her and refuse to date single moms because they chose to let a baby live when it would have been so much easier to quietly take a pill? I don't think abortion should exist, but it exists because of men who won't take steps to make sure nothing happens, but want a good time.

[msc545]

Abortion ALSO exists because of women too lazy or stupid to use birth control.

[DrPepper12]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️👊🏻

[msc545]

@DrPepper12 TY

[Opinion Owner]

The point I am making is that once a woman becomes pregnant, the control and decision about what happens next lies with her. If men really want to stop abortion, they will not rely on women to use contraceptives. That's all.

[Joshydavid25]

It's also the woman's responsibility to make wiser chooses in guys.. It exists because both parties make impulsive choices.. Let's not only shift the blame to men..

[Joshydavid25]

Also that point of once a woman becomes pregnant on only applies if the man is not willing to take care of the baby.. Otherwise it should be both their choices.

[DrPepper12]

Facts! ❤️🎯💯👊🏻⬆️

[Opinion Owner]

So, in your view, women are responsible, period. Got it.

[Opinion Owner]

@Joshydavid25 OK, I can see that. I came on strong, I admit. But where are the men standing up for women? Where are the men keeping each other accountable? At this point, I am only seeing apologists for why men are still not at fault and why it's still mostly women's fault. Look, if we are going to be OK with sex outside of marriage, there are two people involved. My point is that if men want control, they will put a condom on. Otherwise, they have very little say with the laws as they are. If a man steps up and takes responsibility, I respect that. But the evidence is that many don't, based on the million or so abortions that happen each year. I do not support abortion, but I really feel like until we are willing to stop shaming single moms and start holding men accountable, there isn't going to be much change.

[Joshydavid25]

"But where are the men standing up for women? Where are the men keeping each other accountable?"
No disrespect but I feel like that's a silly statement.. I can't keep another accountable for his actions.. He'll do what he wants.. Especially if we are strangers.. Men (just like women) are not some conglomerate group that has meetings.. That's just like me saying "where are the women holding the 33 or more percent of women who use men who trick men into thinking they are the father? It's up to the two people involved to work things out.. We're both humans capable of sin.. Men get blamed for plenty of things.. Women need their fair share too..

[Opinion Owner]

@Joshydavid25 I can see you don't agree and that's fine. I am trying to address the question of "Should men be able to sue women who kill their unborn children?" I don't think they should, just like I don't think women should be able to sue men if they end up pregnant after consensual, unprotected sex.

[DrPepper12]

I don't know why it's so hard for men to understand once they cum all decisions after that are hers and hers alone. It's not that hard... Pun intended

[DrPepper12]

So again, it's all on her? GTFO with that shit.

[Joshydavid25]

There are women who are just selfish and maybe evil who will have an abortion despite the father being willing and able to take care of them.. So those men should be able to sue at least.. Also women don't need to sue.. Since they can just get money out of the man through the government if they have even a bit of proof that he is the father..

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 Maybe men shouldn't fuck evil and selfish women without a rain coat then? Proof of paternity is the easy part! Seen Jerry Springer? The plain fact and logical conclusion is HER CHOICE. EOS!

[Joshydavid25]

@DrPepper12 My point is that the blame is on both the man and the woman.. Not one or the other.. And the responsibility of what happens after both lies on them.. Also well, not everybody has access to paternity test.. And even then, any men still get roped into it if their name is on the birth certificate.. But nobody talks about the fact that men go through it period.. Killing the offspring shouldn't be a choice though.. But unfortunately it is..

[msc545]

No abortion exists because of selfish women who initially don't want to use birth control and then when they get pregnant want to murder. The baby. Men do not cause abortions. Women cause abortions by choosing to have them.

[DrPepper12]

Maybe you missed one of those primary lessons on the birds and the bees...

[Justneedtokno]

Abortion is such a tricky subject.
If there was some type of trauma to the child, did the man offer to take care of the child fully after it’s born and decided to take the rights to do so and legal action to do so there has to be some type of paperwork to this. Nine months to carry create and make a baby and not have the support to keep the child afterwards because you have to understand 18 years it doesn’t stop your parent for life until death and even beyond the grave there’s no opting out on either side. And if you want to go Bible, it takes a mother and a father to raise a child and if neither one of you are ready, that’s a really hard thing to put on one person to do just because that’s hard

[MaybeTony]

In today's culture, it seems strange that we're encouraged to view the termination of life as a standard ethical practice without even considering the impact on everybody involved. A woman aborting a child because she failed to use some form of a contraceptive is extremely selfish to me. Even before I became a Christian later in life, something within me always questioned the ethics of abortion. I believe 100 years from now, the historic consensus of this will be viewed as barbaric.

[CrabCakes11]

Isn’t the man being extremely selfish by not using contraceptives and expecting a woman to risk her life because he wanted to have sex with her?

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 If he doesn't want to step up and take responsibility for his baby then yeah he's being selfish.. But if he's willing to step up and take care of the baby, the woman is the only one selfish here.

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 You are extremely selfish for not donating a kidney. You don’t need both of them when another person needs your body to survive, apparently you should hand it over.

[Faith18letsgo]

What do you mean, the woman not bringing contraceptives? She didn’t bring the sperm.

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 False equivalent... The woman and the man are directly responsible for the baby.. I'm not responsible for anybody not having a kidney especially when I don't know who does or doesn't need one..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 interesting. Apparently it’s both the man and women’s responsibility, yet you’re only bashing the woman

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 Because the focus is on the woman.. She's given the ultimate power over another life just because her body is the one nourishing the child's growth.. The man in the situation virtually has no Rights.. Accept to get in line with whatever the woman says apparently.. Now I do fault those men for no taking responsibility for what they helped bring into the world..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 Exactly. The woman should have power over her own body. She doesn’t have to sacrifice her body for another thing.

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 She does have power over her own body.. If she wants to pierce herself up or do anything else to her body, most people won't stop her.. It's really about the baby's body.. It's not a sacrifice since pregnancy is the natural result of sex and many women even crave to be pregnant..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 The “baby” isn’t a person with rights. Pregnancy is 100% a sacrifice. Just because you want to do something and it’s natural doesn’t make it not a sacrifice. Do you know what a sacrifice is?

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 Obviously, or they wouldn't get aborted.. LOL.. In a way it is a sacrifice, I agree, but you made it sound sacrificial.. It's a sacrifice many women want, and if you don't maybe don't do the thing designed to make them or just track you ovulation cycle..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 Or you could get an abortion.

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 You do know that abortions negatively effect the woman too right.. They're digging through her belly to scrape the baby out.. So, abortions should never be used as birth control..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 an abortion is way safer and way less harmful than being pregnant

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️.. You did not just say that.. The delusion is real.. But no, abortions harm the women as well.. There are complications for women who get abortions..

[DrPepper12]

Yes. The future will reveal that Christo-fascist authorianism is indeed barbaric

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 Correct. Fuck around and find out. Now get in line.

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 many women have a D&C for reasons other than abortion and most abortions are via pills now

[Joshydavid25]

@DrPepper12 I'm starting to wonder where that asteroid is.. We kinda deserve it.. Lmao..

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 name 3 complications from abortion that are both more common and worse than complications that come from pregnancy

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 Well 20 percent of women experience hemorrhaging, perforation of the uterus, cardiac arrest, endo-toxic shock, injuries to adjacent organs, infection resulting in hospitalization, convulsions, ectopic pregnancy, cervical laceration, uterine rupture and even death. Also mild to severe gravity.

bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/.../s12905-020-00962-2

29 percent the of women experience signs of potential infection post abortion.

10 to 15 percent of women (likely more) will have an incomplete abortion which would cause a myriad of complications.

www.researchgate.net/.../10935697_Long-Term_Physical_and_Psychological_Health_Consequences_of_Induced_Abortion_Review_of_the_Evidence

Placentia previa, where a baby’s placenta covers the cervix, increases 70 percent after one abortion and 200 percent after multiple.

[CrabCakes11]

@Joshydavid25 You’re proving yourself wrong

[Joshydavid25]

@CrabCakes11 She says without actually explaining anything.. Keep in mind that there's probably much more problems but because of the political climate, they are most likely deliberately hiding the info..

[MaybeTony]

@CrabCakes11 The end result should be to accept responsibility and raise the child. That, or at least give the child up for adoption. Risk her life? That’s a highly melodramatic response and quite irrational. You risk your life everyday by driving in a vehicle as well.

[CrabCakes11]

Pregnancy is actively dangerous. It’s not melodramatic

[DrPepper12]

@CrabCakes11 he's too far down the rabbit hole and late for tea. You can't reach this one @Joshydavid25

[CriticalCatDad]

Absolutely. Women like to make things all about them. As if the child is only hers and not also her partner’s child. This, apart from the fact that I consider myself asexual, is why I’m never having children. I prefer not to give a woman the privilege of having my child.

[CrabCakes11]

Don’t worry, nobody wants your children

[MzAsh]

The pregnancy is hers, not his. So yes, she had authority with that.

[msc545]

The baby is both of theirs. The pregnancy is a 9- month inconvenience. Which do you suppose is more important?

[msc545]

Also, if it really is hers and not his, then you can pay for the whole damn thing. Including the child support that comes afterwards since according to you, only women are entitled to make decisions about children and babies. You want to make the decisions you pay the price.

[Faith18letsgo]

It’s her body. It is about her.

[CriticalCatDad]

Agreed, @msc545

[DrPepper12]

No. It's hers

[MzAsh]

No. Men are going to have to accept this isn’t of their control. And before anyone starts running their mouths about money, you can keep your money.

[msc545]

Do you think you're talking to children here? The scolding is completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

[MzAsh]

I’ve had this conversation on this topic many times. I know how it usually goes.

[msc545]

You want the money.

[MzAsh]

I have my own money and I’ll use it to keep people out my business

[DarkLegacy]

Men do not have to accept anything, otherwise there is plenty of things that women need to accept

[MzAsh]

You’re right. If someone doesn’t want to accept it, they don’t have to and can just stay mad about it.

[Joshydavid25]

It's their offspring as well.. Men should have a say in half of their DNA.. The woman doesn't have a monopoly over another being just because it's forming in her body..

[MzAsh]

Yeah I agree a man’s feelings should be considered when it comes to their dna. But at the end of the day, it’s on the woman to make the decision.

[msc545]

Good. Do you want to make the decision you pay the bills. It is completely unreasonable to expect me to finance your choices. This includes child support, medical bills, and everything else that goes with it.

[MzAsh]

Uh yeah. I said that lol

[msc545]

Good, of course you don't mean it. First chance you get if someone gets you pregnant you're going to be in court asking for child support. Just like every other woman.

[MzAsh]

Oh no either I’d have kids with a man who’s cool with being a stay at home dad. Or not at all.

[msc545]

Tell you what. Upon consideration, I need to be paid for the contribution of my valuable genetics in DNA to what you consider to be your child exclusively. Let's say one half of your gross income every year for the next 18 years. You know, like courts impose upon men for child support.

[msc545]

If you don't pay it, I'll sue you and tie you up in court for the next 18 years. You know, just like women do to men using lawyers the men are forced to pay for.

[MzAsh]

Do you realize how little sperm costs at a sperm bank?

[Joshydavid25]

If the father is agreeing to take care of them both, it's just as much his decision since they would both leech of of him if we go by the logic often brought up..

[msc545]

If you want MY sperm, it will cost you.

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 that's EXACTLY the reason they do!!!

[DrPepper12]

Correct @MzAsh

[Joshydavid25]

@DrPepper12 Nah, because like I mentioned, it's not only theirs to squander.. You're basically telling women it's okay to be selfish..

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 no. I'm telling YOU they have agency and autonomy over their bodies and all contents therein.

[msc545]

@DrPepper12 excluding an unborn child of course. That is not property.

[MzAsh]

An entity that a woman and her body governs while pregnant,

[Joshydavid25]

@DrPepper12 Abortion has nothing to do with their body.. They lost that choice once they decided to let a man enter their loins.. Just like men would loose the choice as to whether he'll go to war or not if selective service was mandatory.. We have less autonomy over our bodies than women..

[DrPepper12]

@Joshydavid25 what kind of medieval misogyny are you spouting? They don't lose autonomy because they had sex!! GTFO with that craziness!!

[msc545]

That does not give you the right to kill it.

[msc545]

@DrPepper12 The point is that the woman HAS autonomy over her own body, but does not have autonomy over the body of the unborn child - and no right to kill it.

[Joshydavid25]

@DrPepper12 A little late responding my guy.. It's not misogyny.. I kinda forgot the point I was making with the lost choice statement but it wasn't about their personal autonomy..

[MzAsh]

Msc you don’t have the right to tell women what to do with their pregnancy, and neither does anyone else.

[Joshydavid25]

@MzAsh It seems that the government does have the right..

[MzAsh]

They like to think they do. The Janes showed them what they thought of that in the 70s and today there are various programs that do the same.

[Joshydavid25]

Abortion skyrocketed once Roe V Wade hit, so I guess they really didn't show them too much..

[MzAsh]

There’s also been an 11% increase in 2023 since the restrictions.

[Joshydavid25]

Some States restricted them, mostly the red states, but also... Politics..

[Faith18letsgo]

It’s the woman’s body. If a guy wants a kid, he needs to find someone who wants a kid. He can’t just impregnate someone.

[DrPepper12]

HER BODY. HER CHOICE. PERIOD.

[exitseven]

You can sue anybody for just about anything. I am not sure what a jury would find.

[MsProsperity]

Should woman be able to sue men who get them pregnant but not marry them?

[MsProsperity]

Women

[MysteriousDarkness]

@MsProsperity
Then why are there women who don't want to get pregnant but consent to having unprotected sex and on top of it don't use birth control? How about those who wanted to be pregnant until they actually become pregnant?

[Iron_Man]

Absolutely if my woman ever did that to my child I would have a fit

[CrabCakes11]

That makes sense m. A childish response to match a immature little man

[Iron_Man]

@CrabCakes11 it figures a murderer

[CrabCakes11]

Are you murdering everyone on the kidney transplant list by not giving them a kidney? Then women aren’t killing “babies” by now allowing them to use their bodies to survive

[Faith18letsgo]

So don’t empregnant someone who doesn’t want to child.

[Paul09]

Nope. It takes two to make a baby.. next time wear a condom or keep it in your pants.

[Meropatrick]

Most of the time the woman is the one who wants the baby really. I never seen a guy making a fuss about an abortion

[DarkLegacy]

Where have to been all your life

[Joshydavid25]

Yeah, if he wanted the baby.. He should have the some part of the reproductive right..

[LazerBean]

Absolutely, and men who get women pregnant should be forced to marry those women.

[Paul09]

Lol it takes two to tango tho.

[LazerBean]

Exactly

[slatyb]

That's no such thing as an unborn child. A child is the result of a live birth.

[msc545]

Of course there is such a thing as an unborn child. Changing the words around to make yourself feel better is not going to fix anything.

[slatyb]

We have words for that: "zygote", "embryo", "fetus".

[msc545]

Yes, words that you use deliberately to avoid using the word child because if you did so it would make you feel terrible and make you have to realize that an abortion amounts to murder.

[msc545]

Changing the name of something does not change the essence of it.

[DrPepper12]

I was always partial to blastula

[slatyb]

No, and calling a microscope embryo a child does not make it a person.

[msc545]

I see you're back to the whole person argument. Sadly, based on past conversations you cannot really define what a person is. Sort of pointless isn't it?

[Apple1996]

It's impossible to kill something that isn't alive yet

[CriticalCatDad]

So when a pregnant woman is murdered it shouldn’t be considered a double homicide? 🤔

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad probably shouldn't be but I don't see how much difference that would make legally for it to be 1 vs 2 murders. Wouldn't both those cause the murderer to be locked up for life?

[CriticalCatDad]

Yes but it would also prove that there is a separate entity within the woman that is killable.

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad the baby isn't alive yet. It's just part of the woman's body

[CriticalCatDad]

That’s your opinion doesn’t make it fact. End of discussion

[msc545]

Can I suppose you think that when it's born it just magically comes alive. Jesus at least go to the biology class.

[Apple1996]

It's not alive on its own until its born and detaches from the placenta. Before that it's just part of the mom

[Apple1996]

I've had 5 babies so I'm well aware of how it works

[SixFootSexy]

While technically the fetus is attached, it also has unique DNA from the moment of conception. Scientifically, without intervention, it will ONLY develop into a baby. All the other arguments are simply a moral kangaroo court.

[Apple1996]

@SixFootSexy 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage so it's acutally a decent chance that it might not turn into a baby

[DarkLegacy]

@CriticalCatDad Good comment and if it is not possible to kill anything not alive then then killing feminists is not murder

[CrabCakes11]

@CriticalCatDad no. It’s not a double homocide

[msc545]

Yes legally as a matter of fact it is a double homicide. There is a reason for that and the reason for that is because two living beings are killed. Just like in an abortion when a living being is killed.

[MysteriousDarkness]

Its either a living organism, a dead organism, or it's an inanimate object. Which is it?

[Apple1996]

@MysteriousDarkness the mother is living

[CriticalCatDad]

The mother isn’t more important. She lived her life the life inside her hasn’t yet she should die to let it live

[CriticalCatDad]

Otherwise on the other side of the coin men shouldn’t risk their lives if women shouldn’t have to risk theirs in childbirth

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad the mother is most important even after the baby is alive and born since the baby depends on the mother to feed and care for it

[CriticalCatDad]

So you’re saying men are irrelevant when it comes to children. I already know that.

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad for babies yes because the dad should focus on caring for the mom so then the mom can care for the baby

[CriticalCatDad]

Who cares for the dad?

[CriticalCatDad]

Why should the dad care for the mom when no one is caring for him? All she does is bitch at him every day

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad the dad didn't have to go through any physical trauma to get the baby here. He's fully healthy

[CriticalCatDad]

Oh cry me a fucking River it must be so difficult for a woman to do what she was designed to do sooooo traumatic

[CriticalCatDad]

His health deteriorates the longer he has to put up with a bitch

[Apple1996]

@CriticalCatDad probably because she's going through something more difficult then he is 😂

[CriticalCatDad]

Right. Doing what you were made to do is difficult and should mean women deserve to be catered to by a man who is essentially a slave to her.

[CriticalCatDad]

Women are so pathetic

[CriticalCatDad]

Maybe I don’t want to get laid

[CriticalCatDad]

Sorry no one’s raped you yet

[CrabCakes11]

No. That’s illogical

[Anonymous]

They should be able to do what they like to punish the woman, no limits.

[DrPepper12]

Donald is that you?

[Opinion Owner]

@DrPepper12 White knights make me wanna puke. Pass the sick bucket, although you are just another outdated old man.

[Opinion Owner]

@drpepper12 we are talking about punishing women who abort our child, so they would not be pregnant, try reading the question

[AngryCarl]

What part of "her body, her choice" don't Republitards understand?

[msc545]

Because it isn't her body. The body that you are proposing to destroy actually belongs to The unborn child not to the mother. The mother is simply a container that contains the growing unborn child for the first 9 months of its life. After that, the child doesn't need the container anymore and is able to continue growing without it. To assert otherwise is to say that a house controls the absolute fate of its occupants. This is not the case obviously.

[msc545]

Since you assert that it really is her body, then it follows that she should pay the bills. Right?

[DrPepper12]

It
Is
Not
A
Child
!

[AngryCarl]

@msc545 "The mother is simply a container" You don't talk to women much, do you?

[TheRealPepperPotts]

Listen, I am pro-life. But abortion will not stop until men decide they don't want to kill an unborn child and wear protection/get vasectomies. Women do take birth control, but men should also use a contraceptive. I used to have the same perspective as you, but then I realized that... Duh, men are getting women pregnant because condoms are uncomfortable. How selfish is that? And calling women containers is just, um, well... I think I got some insight into how you view women...

[msc545]

@DrPepper12 Of course it is a child. Making up different names for it to justify killing it doesn't change what it is.

[Anonymous]

Gosh msc i always thought you were one of the good ones on here, now i realize you're a misogynistic pos. stop huffing on the red pill/incel paint bro.

[msc545]

stop simping, coward.

[gorydetails]

Sounds like a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Of course not, that's retarded.

[laly520]

oh my..

[Dongie]

at least.