Whose side are you on in the Gaza affair?

[Anonymous]

Israel

Hamas

Neither

[DaisyM23]

there's so much to say about this:
1) this didn't start on October 7th, israel have been ethnically cleansing and committing genocide against palestinians for decades, they have killed civilians for years, and yet when there is an inevitable defence against them, they act like the victims - hamas also killed civilians but the war crimes committed on both sides is insane to compare when one side has killed over 14k children in 8 months - also i have seen video after video of children dying or crying over dead family or starving, there is no question of why children seeing war grow up to join movements who promise retribution and defence when no one else helps them
2) israel is a settler colony state, their right to exist came from zionists in america and Europe who wanted to kick jewish people out of their countries - this can only apply as reparations for the holocaust if every wronged group in history can also get reparations
3) people who deny genocide are those who are zionists, the same way turkish people may deny the armenian genocide and how nazis deny the holocaust - find someone objective AKA south africa at the icj

[Asker]

wow, 14,000 children? And what legitimate source is that from? Oh yeah, the hamas controlled Gaza health ministry. Even the un said those numbers are BS.

[WintersDaughter]

"ethnically cleansing" yet their population has grown nonstop and over 2 million Arabs live happily in Israel.

Israel has been around for thousands of years. You do know that the Dome of the Rock was built ON TOP of the remains of the Jewish Temple... right? Jews have always been there. They are literally indigenous to the land. There are coins and artifacts dating back thousands of years with the Hebrew writing, using terms like Jerusalem and Judea.

Also, recheck your facts. The UN admitted those numbers were wrong and 14k children have NOT been killed. They reduced their numbers by over 50%.

[DaisyM23]

@WintersDaughter yes i know Jewish people were there first before Muslims and Christians at least, and they are indigenous to the land but they are indigenous from 2000 years ago, by your and Israeli logic, Native Americans, who were put in reservations and were also ethnically cleansed in the last 500 years, can just take back all of America right? and African-Americans who were LITERALLY stolen and sold from their homes within the last 300 years can just go back to various African countries and reclaim that land? the descendants of refugees forced to leave their homes can go back to a country THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN TO and just claim it? My parents were forced to leave their home country because of civil war, I haven't been there since I was a baby, in 50 years can my grandchildren go take whatever land they had? that's not how the world works, especially since most Israelis now have ancestors from Europe and America, their claim to the Middle East is from literally a thousand years ago, can i also do a DNA test and find out where my ancestors were from and just steal that land? why doesn't everyone get to do that right? There are literally billions of people around the world who have been harmed by colonialism, why don't they all get reparations since this is what Israel was supposedly created for? I can't believe I have to explain it but NO ONE HAS CLAIM TO ANY LAND BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION. Muslims and Christians aren't fighting for the Middle East, they TRIED centuries ago during the Crusades but no one's claiming they all go live there. Hindus don't have claim to India. WHY do Jewish people believe in their claim to Israel so much?

And the UN ARE reporting high death counts because there is a high death rate, and that's as far as we know since there are people also missing. There are also support workers from other countries who were targeted and killed. Journalists and doctors. There is nothing moral or just about this 'war'

[DaisyM23]

And I'm sorry but how many Palestinians do you need before you call it ethnic cleansing? The Nakba displaced 750k people from their homes 70 years ago. Palestinians have been massacred for decades since. People like you are the biggest problem. I'm sure the Germans also used this exact same logic when they were committing genocide against Jewish people and other groups in the 40s. Do you need the whole population to die before you call it genocide? What is WRONG with you.

[WintersDaughter]

You seem to be under the impression that Jews LEFT. Jews have been in that land for thousands of years, Jews have been going to that land for thousands of years. Long before the Arabs arrived. Jews have always yearned to return home, and when given the chance they always took it. Their claim to the land has always been there since they literally never left.

The UN openly admitted they were wrong about the death counts by 50%.

Please research what the Nakba was 😂. It was literally Arab states that started a war with Israel. They TOLD the Arabs living in Israel to leave so they could wipe the Jews out, then failed miserably. The term Nakba (catastrophe) was coined by Dr. Constantine Zureiq in his 1948 book "The Meaning of Nakba". He wrote that the catastrophe was the failure of the Arab states. More than 800,000 Arab Jews had to flee from their homes. Once Israel won, they conquered more land. The 150,000 Arabs that refused to leave Israel are still living there today, there are more than 2 million Arabs living peacefully and happily in Israel.

So no, the Nakba didn't "displace" 750k people, they were ordered by their own people to leave with the promise of returning once the Jews were dead. So sad that didn't happen 🙄.

Ethnic cleansing is what the Arabs did to the Jews living in Arab states. In 1948, there were over 800,000 Jews living in Arab states, in 2012 there were less than 5,000.

Genocide is the Jewish population in Europe going from 9.5 million to 3.5 million in 12 years (1933-1945). Genocide is when it's been decades since the Holocaust and the Jewish population is STILL lower than it was pre Holocaust.

In 1967, there were just under 2 million Palestinians in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. In 2016, there's almost 4.5 million. THAT'S NOT GENOCIDE OR ETHNIC CLEANSING.

[DaisyM23]

@WintersDaughter Israeli politicians have shown intent to kill Palestinians, they have indiscriminately killed them for years. Yes, the Holocaust did happen and it was one of the worst events and crimes in history, wiping out a whole group of people solely for their religion and the belief in stereotypes and hatred, but denying one genocide in place of another is idiotic. What do you call what's happening in Palestine then? Will you wait for the population to fall considerably, and THEN call it genocide? No one just throws around the term genocide, every single 'genocide' which have happened have significant claims behind it.

And talking about the wars between Arab states and Jewish people, I'm pretty sure throughout history every country or group have fought against who they've seen as an invading force. Jewish people entered into their lands as colonisers, there is no other way to describe it, there was peaceful coexistence before zionism was established as the dominant ideology

Where are you even getting your numbers from, that there were less than 5k Jewish people in 2012? Wouldn't it make sense for those in the Middle East to easily travel to and have access to live in Israel, so what is your point that they have left Arab states, they haven't been murdered, they left to the colonising neighbouring state no?

There is a difference between Arab Jewish people, who have remained in that land and thus have claim, and those from America and Europe, whose only trace to the Middle East is from centuries ago. As I said before, only Israelis make and sustain this claim to land, no other group of people do so, even when their claim is more sustainable or short.

Israel's right to exist, no matter when if it existed thousands of years ago, can only be legitimate when every single group who have been wronged throughout history also get THEIR homeland.

[WintersDaughter]

Incorrect. Israeli politicians talk about destroying HAMAS and their ideology (aka wiping out all Jews/Israel). Genocide is INTENTION. It's DELIBERATE. It's not the casualties of war with a people that deliberately hide behind children and citizens and blames Israel for every single death. There is nothing to back up the "genocide" claim. There IS significant evidence to back up Hamas and Palestine wanting to commit genocide against Israel and the Jews. “from the river to the sea” is literally a call for genocide!!!

Dude, you really need to get your history straight. The Jewish people are not colonizers. They didn't enter anyone's land, they had their own. Again, you seem to be under the impression that all the Jews left thousands of years ago. In the 2nd century, Jews lost sovereignty in Israel after the Bar Kokhvah revolt, the Romans renamed the land from Judea to Syria Palestina and forced a lot of Jews to Europe. However, there was still a Jewish majority in Israel. In the 4th century, there was a revolt against the Romans (the Gallus Revolt). Later, the Roman emperor tried to give the Jews their land back. In the 7th century, there was still a Jewish majority (and christian) and another Jewish revolt where they tried to gain independence in their homeland (Heraclius revolt). They joined forces with the Persians and regained independence for five years. Even after the Arab occupation, there was still Jewish presence in the land. In the 11th century, when the crusaders came, Jews and Muslims fought together. In the 16th century, there was a Jewish majority in the city of Safed because the Jewish community never left. Even the Jews that were expelled from the land of Israel tried to return and regain independence.

[WintersDaughter]

During the time of the Ottoman Empire, Jews decided to legally purchase land in Israel. The UN split the land so all the areas where a lot of Arabs lived (Hebron, Shchem, Safed, etc) remained with Arab land. The Jews got all of the uninhabited land in the Negev (where, by the way, no one could grow anything so no one lived there) and areas where the Jewish people lived. Jews said yes, Arabs got angry and launched attacks on Jews (aka the Nakba). They told their people to leave so they could murder all the Jews, most of them did. Over 850k Jews living in the Arab countries that attacked were expelled, so they fled to Israel (the ones that weren’t murdered). Which is why most of the Jews living in Israel today don’t have any connection to Europe, they were already in the Middle East.

ARABS ARE COLONIZERS. Look up the Arab-Islamic conquest.

The Arab Empire conquered the region of modern-day Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and parts of Turkey in the seventh century, over 1,600 years after the establishment of the Kingdom of Israel. Before this, Israel (in the year 136, Romans renamed it Palestine as an insult to the Jews. Palestine is NOT AN ARAB WORD. It comes from the word Philistine, an enemy of the Jews, meaning invader) had been occupied by the Neo-Assyrian Empire, the Neo-Babylonian Empire, the Sassanid Empire (aka Persians), the Greeks and Macedonians, the Roman Empire, and the Byzantin Empire.

[WintersDaughter]

In 636, they conquered Jerusalem. Byzantines surrended in 637. In 688, the Arabs constructed the Dome of the Rock and, later, the al-Aqsa Mosque atop the ruins of the destroyed sacred Jewish Temple. By the ninth century, as a result of forced conversions, coercion, proselytization, and Arab migration, Islam became the majority religion in Palestine, and Arabic had replaced the previously-used languages. LEARN HISTORY!!!

Zionism and Judaism go hand in hand, it's always been around and it always will be. It literally means Jews have a right to live in their ancestral homeland.

Also, there was NOT peace before Israel was established.

There was not peace in the middle east before Israel. In the 20th century, the Armenians and the Assryians were murdered (read: GENOCIDE) by the Islamic Turks of the Ottoman Empire. There’s a LONG list of massacres committed against the Jews by Arabs before. The massacre in Fez in 1465, in Constantine Algeria in 1934, in Tripoli Libya in 1945, the Farhud in Iraq in 1941. Look up Hebron 1929 massacre, Petah Tikvah massacre in 1886, the Jaffa massacre in 1908, the Dania massacre in 1920/1921, the Menahemia massacre in 1921, and a whole lot more. That’s BARELY even scratching the service on the attacks on Jews BEFORE Israel was recognized as a state.

[WintersDaughter]

Every single Jew has a right to live in Israel. No matter where they were born, it is considered their ancestral homeland. The Jewish majority that remained in Israel for all these thousands of years agree.

By your own logic, no Arab (aka Palestine) is able to claim this land as theirs, since they invaded and colonized it. However, Israel is more than willing and happy to live peacefully beside the Arabs. That's why they kept offering two state solutions.

[WintersDaughter]

Also, I find it hilarious that you will mention European and American Jews returning to Israel, but haven't mentioned African Jews that returned to Israel.

[Zbrody1997]

Why should anyone outside the conflict care? Sure if you have an actual invested interest by all means, however our country is falling to shit with its own issues. Fix our problems before fixing everyone elses

[legalboxers]

[Serkee]

Not my circus, not my monkeys. I just wish my taxes weren't going over there.

[Anonymous]

The side of the innocent civilians that are getting displaced and are being killed, abused and starved by both sides.

[WintersDaughter]

Israel 🇮🇱💪