Is it DEMOCRACY when most POLITICAL ADS ask for MONEY, not your vote?

[AviatorTom]

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US, we get bombarded with political ads before elections. Most ads are requests for money, or an attack on the candidate's opponent. Very rarely does an ad ask for your vote.

Is that the way democracy is supposed to work? The candidate that gets the most money wins?

[purplepoppy]

Democracy by the wallet not the ballot as the saying goes.

Politicians know most people are stick in the muds for a particular party and it's impossible to change their mind. But getting them to vote is a different matter. It's about motivating your supporters to vote that makes the difference and that takes money.

[Dongie]

What was it you made with the oj and eggs. I missed it as being under suspension for voicing my opinion.

[purplepoppy]

A type of ice cream

[Dongie]

Oh kay

[CrazyGirl2]

No, democracy is also known as the “Tyranny of The Majority”. That’s why we are not a democracy in the US, we are a constitutional republic. If we were a true democracy, the citizenry would have to vote on every single bill which passed through congress.

I hope this helps answer your question.
Laura, 🤗 🥰 .

[goaded]

The confusion comes from the fact that the US was the first "modern" democracy. Even the Greeks had rules over who could vote, and every democracy and republic does, too.

A democracy is where the people choose their leaders (at least the ones who determine things; the UK has a king, but parliament is where things get done, and that's elected). Republics are democracies, by definition, they don't even have kings!

[CrazyGirl2]

@goaded I thought the form of government in the UK was called a Constitutional Monarchy? I know you (and my family who all still live there) vote for MP’s, councilor’s etc to represent you, and you do that using the democratic process, but I didn’t think the UK is a “democracy" per se?

[goaded]

It is, but it's still a (representative) democracy, like the US, because we vote for the people who make and enforce laws. Both countries have been touting democracy (as opposed to dictatorships) all my life. Republicans in America have only been making the case against democracy by equating it with pure democracy (where everybody votes on everything) recently, to justify their tyranny of the minority; 40% of the population controlling everybody's lives.

"the great rediscovery of the 1980's has been that, lo and behold, the moral way of government is the practical way of government: Democracy, the profoundly good, is also the profoundly productive." Ronald Reagan's farewell address www.reaganlibrary.gov/.../farewell-address-nation

"The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy which, by legislation and convention, operates as a unitary parliamentary democracy." en.wikipedia.org/.../Politics_of_the_United_Kingdom

[CrazyGirl2]

@goaded Thanks. I think we are talking at cross purposes. I agree with you on everything you wrote. (Except for the thing about US Republicans wanting a tyranny!) I may despise Donald Trump, but he was already president for 4 years… If he wanted to rule over us as a tyrant, then he would have done it then! Logically it just does not hold water. Who would plan to become a tyrannical leader, but only IF he gets a second term? That’s absurd on its' face! But I’m not having this discussion. I fucking hate politics, and I REALLY hate talking about politics!

[CrazyGirl2]

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@goaded Also, there is no confusion. True democracy (or pure democracy) does not need a qualifier, that’s just called Democracy. All OTHER forms of democratic government that merely utilize the democratic process to elect representatives, they need the qualifier in the title. In “Representative Republic” the qualifier, (which is “Democratic”) is silent. Therefore, the full title of the form of government in the US would be, “Democratic Representative Republic”, just like how England is a "Democratic Constitutional Monarchy”. But we drop the word “Democratic” because it’s redundant in a representative form of government. You are free to disagree, but that’s how I learned it in my Governmental studies class. As my professor said, we just call the stuff we breathe “Air", not “Pure Air”, likewise we drink “water", not “pure water” even if it IS PURE!
Well Ditto with Democracy! The only form of democracy that does not need a qualifier is “Pure Democracy” aka “True Democracy”. It’s kinda hard to call the US a democracy, when the citizens don’t even vote for our president, we vote for a “Slate of Electors” to vote in the Electoral College, and THEY vote for the president. This is important, because the Electoral College is under NO legal obligation to actually vote for the candidate their state voted for! If they do not vote for the candidate that their state voted for, they are called “Faithless Electors” and it is all perfectly legal and written into the constitution! How can THAT be called a “Democracy”? That’s why the US is not , and by design has never been a democracy!

[CrazyGirl2]

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As Chat GPT states really well, “While the U. S. is a democracy only in the sense that it allows the participation of its citizens in the electoral process, it is specifically a democratic representative republic because it operates under a system of elected representatives and a rule of law. This is illustrated by how citizens of the United States do not directly vote for the president. Instead, they vote for a group of representatives known as the Electoral College to actually vote for the president, and in the 2000, and 2016, both Al Gore, and Hillary Clinton won the most votes, but did not become president because of the Electoral College. This would not happen in a democracy, where the person with the most vote wins!”

That was my only point, sweetie.
Laura 🤗 🥰

[goaded]

Since you don't like talking about it, and I see what you mean, I'll be brief and leave it there.

I disagree that "democracy" implies a pure democracy, because pure democracy is totally impractical and for decades, if not centuries, the word has been used to describe any government chosen by its people (which would, of course, include "pure democracies", like "pure water", if one existed).

I agree with you that the EC is a terrible form of democracy, but elected politicians aren't forced to vote the way their electors wanted, either. Look at George Santos!

You only get a say every few years, but that should be enough.

[CrazyGirl2]

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@goaded I’m so sorry, but I don’t know who George Santos is. When I looked it up it all I found was "George Santos is a U. S. politician who has served as a member of the U. S. House of Representatives since 2023, representing New York’s 3rd congressional district. It was revealed that Santos had fabricated and exaggerated significant parts of his biography, including his education, work history, and personal background. These revelations led to widespread media attention and criticism, with many calling for his resignation. Santos was eventually expelled from Congress on December 1, 2023. The primary reasons for Santos’ expulsion were the multiple scandals and criminal charges he faced, including allegations of fraud, campaign finance violations, and lying about his background. An investigation by the House Ethics Committee found overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing, which lead to the decision to expel him.” But I don’t know what that has to do with democracy, or the forms of government under which we live. But never mind.
Continued...

[CrazyGirl2]

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Either way, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. A courtesy that has long been missing from discourse within Western society. Which is a shame, because far too many people have lost friends and even family over disagreements regarding the body politic. That's one of the main reasons why I despise politics so much. Both of my parents lost friends, and my mother lost one of her cousins, because she refused to vote for the candidate that her cousin preferred in 2016. they still have not spoken to this day, despite m mom’s attempts at a reconciliation! That was when my eyes were opened to the fact that merely talking about politics is like walking through an intellectual minefield! There is zero upside, but a potentially massive detrimental downside. Over the years, I've gotten so used to not discussing politics, that I now despise anything to do with politics. however, I was under the impression that this discussion was about democracy, and not partisan politics. however, I am more than happy to not discuss it any further, as I find you to be a very polite, nice guy whom I would miss if we were no longer on speaking terms.

Your friend, Laura 🤗 🥰

[goaded]

My point was simply that once you've elected a representative, you don't have any control over them, just like EC voters.

[CrazyGirl2]

@goaded I certainly agree with that!

It was really nice chatting with you, even though we did not agree on everything. I commend you for your ability to discuss politically divisive things when you don’t agree with the other person. You were polite, and kind! I really appreciate that.

Laura 🤗 🥰

[RebelinSteel]

I think it’s crap when politicians try to get cash from their voters. It’s also pretty obscene the amount of money spent on US elections.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/02/2020-cycle-cost-14p4-billion-doubling-16/

the last lot were circa $14 Billion

[exitseven]

Unfortunately it is somewhat true that the candidate that raises the most money ends up winning the election. There are plenty of exceptions to this rule but you cannot win an election without boatloads of cash.

[goaded]

So most House members spend half their time chasing money, not doing their jobs. Not the best system. AOC relies on lots of small donations and doesn't have to beg.

[exitseven]

@goaded Yes, term limits would fix most of this problem. Also the Supreme Court backed Super PACs a few years back which allowed candidates to accept money from foreign agents through their Super PACs. This needs to be addressed. Maybe outlaw PACs altogether., We need to take the money out of politics as much as possible.

[goaded]

I don't know that term limits are such a great thing for elected positions, it would take a (usually positive) choice away from the voters.

I agree completely about the Super PACs and money in politics. I will point out that it was the right wing of the court that decided that case, which was pushed by Republican donors.

Corporations are not people, they shouldn't have a voice.

Two funny videos on the subject of congressional fundraising and Super PACs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylomy1Aw9Hk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijxvjL7KJlk

[RetroReviews]

I'm used to ads I watch ads every 20 minutes to get 2 Atlas bucks in the metaverse so I can buy virtual land in Atlas Earth

https://r.atlasearth.com/VBQuCPaAQLb

[normalice]

Not at all. This is the inevitable result of the Citizens Unites ruling. Removing the price cap from political advertising has turned all of politics into a money race. Now if democrats could have any confidence that left leaning people would show up to vote for them and not be dissuaded by right wing media's relentless and deeply funded efforts to dissuade them, it would all go away. But they don't. So they have to fight fire with fire..

[chrissykerdock]

some countries don't allow money fundrising about 10 years ago they ran it through congress and it was voted to continue fundrisising as you can pocket the money

[msc545]

I don't think it's really the way democracy is supposed to work but nobody is paying attention to that. This is the United States where the single most important thing is money and everything else is rendered unimportant unless it relates to money. It's not surprising that political campaigns are mostly ways of asking for money.

[DJB72]

Nope. But then the US is a Republic, not a democracy

[DryGermanGuy]

A republic is a form of democracy, how many times does this have to be explained?

[SugarSugarplum]

It's not democracy per se, it's just MERCHANDISING

[goaded]

All politics is. And that's why children should be educated about how advertising works.

[SugarSugarplum]

@goaded You'll get no argument from me about THAT.

[goaded]

In Germany, my kids were taught the difference between brand products and off-brand products, and that's it's practically nothing but the price. I really appreciated that.