Are some people just slated to die in your politics?

[OddBeMe]

Obviously our country’s politics prioritize lives over others. Sub Q: should it be that way?

Yes they’re some that are supposed to die

No, no one is “supposed” to die.

[MisterWack]

“People are dying, that’s true. It is what it is”
- Trump
“I’ve always played it down. Didn’t want to create a panic”
- Trump

No one’s life should be prioritized over others. You look after your country and want your people to be well, not go “Whoops! Can’t do anything about it” while giving horrible advice & broken promises.
His administration did plan to send masks, tests, etc.(free of course) and Trump killed it because it would make it seem like a real issue affecting Americans (which it was, that is why we voted him out) The next administration gave free tests & free masks & passed American Rescue Plan even getting citizens vaccinations not just medical staff (Trump)

Kamala Harris has pledged to continue free masks & free tests as Covid19 cases are predicted to rise.
Clearly there is someone prioritizing all human life not just the few.

[msc545]

Nobody is supposed to die

[exitseven]

Everybody dies. There are risks involved in most things. The individual must decide on whether or not to take the Chance.

[OddBeMe]

@exitseven trumps child separation policy was by definition a war crime.

[exitseven]

@OddBeMe People choose to break the law America cannot be held responsible for the consequences. In a lot of countries you would be shot on sight.

[OddBeMe]

Held responsible is separating families? The literal Hague definition of genocide

[OddBeMe]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention

[normalice]

Everyone is slated to die. It has nothing to do with politics. My political view is ultimately that humanity is at war with the laws of nature and it is a war we must win. Unfortunately we have too many people who prefer to be stupid monkeys thwarting our efforts to advance. But that is not necissarily a bad thing as it helps highlight where the bars of our cage are: by evaluating the social factors that lead people to prefer to be dumb monkeys we are nailing down where the monkey ends and the human begins in all of us.

[OddBeMe]

Pretty Trumps child in cages policy would say otherwise.

[exitseven]

yesh, the cages that Obama built. Nobody said a peep when Biden put children in those very same cages.

[normalice]

So, are you agreeing the person who built something should be held responsible for how someone else uses it? You must be furious at gun manufacturers by now, right?

[exitseven]

No, but I seem to remember that Trump never locked kids up in cages. I remember that when Biden first opened the border it was so jammed with illegal aliens that he had to use the cages.

[normalice]

Of course you remember something that is false. This addiction to fantasy likely has something to do with why you want christian nationalism, after all.

[OddBeMe]

Trump did lock kids in cages SEPARATELY from their family. War crime

[lightbulb27]

Good question. No

I'm open to taking over their horrible countries so they are stabilized and become additional states. Moving everyone "there" to where it is good, is going to ruin our good.

maybe I'm being selfish?

This is what we should b talking about... how do you solve these problems. Can't even get to that point. I've said before, I'd host/adopt/sponsor a migrant, under a govt program... as long as there are some rules. I'm willing to do my part to help.

[Drewtate]

The more we allow to successfully come the more we encourage to come. Look at the problems Europe has with their softness on ilegal immigration, they are feeding the problem.

I'm in favour of the policy liberals employed at Martha's vineyard. Lock them up under police guard and have the national guard remove them.

[OddBeMe]

Mmm…happiness index? Europe.
Social mobility? Europe.
GDP? Pretty much on par.

Is there actual evidence of a European crisis? Besides Putin?

[Drewtate]

Just all the drownings in the Mediterranean. The fact that right wing part are making massive in roads shows this.

[OddBeMe]

No…the right wing inroads are idiotic populism coming out of a global crisis. It’s the dumbest

[Drewtate]

Nah its all the unchecked refugees, gang rapes and violence.

[Sevenpointfive]

politicians are some of the ugliest people on the planet. i'd put most of them in prison. they might thrive among their constituents, but die quickly is more likely

[OddBeMe]

As usual you’ve missed the point entirely but saved yourself with a very bright idea, Pinky.

[Sevenpointfive]

haha, right, but where are we gonna get a jewish space laser?

[OddBeMe]

That sounds awesome. Why do we hate on the news? Best ideas

[exitseven]

When you break the laws of acountry by illegally entering it you are committing a crime. If you happen to get killed it is not the fault of the US. These people should have respected our laws

[msc545]

@exitseven Can you define the phrase "disproportionate response" or just spell it maybe?

[exitseven]

@msc545 yes, it is when one group gets treated differently by the authorities.. if you are a Democrat you can burn down a police station and get bailed out in an hour. If you are a Republucan you break a window while you protest a stolen election and you get locked up for 30 years.

[msc545]

No. It is when you kill people for failing to fill out forms as you are advocating.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Are they breaking federal law by crossing the border? (this is is a yes or no answer)

[msc545]

Is it appropriate to kill people for failing to fill out forms? (This too is a yes or no answer).

[exitseven]

@msc545 crossing the border is a crime. There are no magic forms to fill out. you just stay out until you come in legally.

[msc545]

To come in "legally" you need to fill out forms.

[exitseven]

@msc545 yes, but you do not cross illegally and then fill out a form. You apply for a visa and to do that you need a sponsor and a job. When Trump was president we did not have any of these problems. They knew there would be no handouts and they knew they would have to wait in Mexico until their hearing. As a result, they all stayed home. President Trump took a problem and he solved it. Biden took something that was working and he screwed it up and Harris did nothing but make it worse.

[msc545]

We had these problems with Trump but they were then, as they are now, not a big deal. They are actually in a perverse way good for the economy in that cheap labor stimulates business growth as an intended feature of Capitalism, odious as both thing are.

You should be pleased that the rich gods of the Republican party are making even more money off cheap labor. You cannot have things both ways much as you may want to.

[exitseven]

@msc545 No, Trump wants the middle class to make money so they make the country better by buying more stuff they don't need. He is against them coming over here and tsking jobs away from citizens.
Tyson chicken fired all the Americans and set up camps for illegals and replaced all the Americans. Tyson is just another on the list of companies I boycott. I am not alone with this either.

[exitseven]

While we are talking about people dying because of politics how about all the Americans tht have been killed or maimed by illegal aliens just so democrats have more voters. ? Is it worth hundreds of lives to make sure the democrats stay in power?
The democrats opened the southern border and offered a free ride to anybody who wants to come here.

[msc545]

This is a lie - prove it isn't:

"While we are talking about people dying because of politics how about all the Americans that have been killed or maimed by illegal aliens just so Democrats have more voters"

This is also a lie - prove it isn't too:

"The democrats opened the southern border and offered a free ride to anybody who wants to come here."

[OddBeMe]

@exitseven Why is your side so grossly inambered with illegal crossing on the southern border? Plenty of Americans commit misdemeanors- and indirectly murder cops in Jan 6.

Whats the obsession? The inspidid Graat Replacement bullshit?

[msc545]

I think that is the great replacement crap rearing its ugly head once again. We can all thank Hitler for that garbage.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Thee is plenty of video of Biden going into South America telling people that anyone who comes will not be sent back. How much more proof do you need.
Just about every day somebody is killed by one of Bidens " visitors". Yoiu need to get your news from a better source, I have to read what goes on in my state here https://nypost.com/ bvecause the local rag sheet will not print anything that makes Biden/Harris look bad. In todays paper there is a story about how one of the Marthas Vineyard "migrats" was arrested for multiple child rape charges. Just another day in Biden's America.

[msc545]

Provide links to these things please.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Here is some low hanging fruit. There are some tht have been purged from the internet.
www.npr.org/.../biden-suspends-deportations-stops-remain-in-mexico-policy

nypost.com/.../

[msc545]

1 incident makes your point?

[exitseven]

@msc545 I could do this all day but you will have to do your own research if you want the truth.

[msc545]

You have no evidence at all - just a wish

[exitseven]

@msc545 The truth is out there you just want to keep your head buried in the sand

[msc545]

No, I think you just want to keep believing in your fantasies and I don't blame you for that because they're very comforting. Undoubtedly. Unfortunately they also aren't true.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Tell that to Laken Riley's parents.

[msc545]

Sure, immigration makes people want to kill. The only people that want to kill in response to immigration are people on the right wing. And they tend to be white.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 come on dude you know that not vetting people is dangerous and we actually have very dangerous foreign gang members in our country because of the lack of vetting.

Besides, immigration is a privilege and not a right. We can make the process of immigration as arbitrary as we want and we can completely close up the border and execute anyone who illegally crosses at our leisure.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose There is no good way to vet people, and I say this as a professional trained to do this and much more.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 yes there absolutely is otherwise there would be no point in having a border. Countries that loosen borders to such an insane point start to see some pretty insane problems.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose Tell me, in detail, what you think it is and why you think it works and who you think should perform it and at what cost?

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 man I'm not going to fucking write some damn research paper for you.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose You don't need to - I already have the degrees and the knowledge behind my saying that it doesn't work.

You should not advocate for things you know nothing about.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 whatever you say man. Sure, let the borders be wide open and see what happens.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose I did not say that. I simply said that vetting people doesn't work - and it doesn't.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 well obviously having a border does work and it helps keep out terrorist scum and hardcore criminal gangs. Trump's presidency had less criminal aliens pouring into the country and that is a net positive.

[OddBeMe]

Again, Biden is a politician. WHAT MAKES YOU GUYS SOOOO OBSESSED WITH THE SOUTHERN BORDER?

[OddBeMe]

Letting them in and tracking them would be 10x more safe than ICE's gestapo

[Juxtapose]

You're a lunatic if you think ICE is a Gestapo organization. Shame on you.

[OddBeMe]

madison.com/.../...99d-56b3-82de-f681ae8d0c07.html

[Juxtapose]

I'm not paying to subscribe to them.

[exitseven]

Each illegal alien costs the taxpayers between 35 and 50 thousand dollars. That is per year, per illegal alien , year after year forever. . In 2023 $480,000,000 was spent on illegal aliens by the feds. , That is almost half a trillion dollars. This does not count the billions that cities a d states are shelling out. Even if it costs a trillion dollars to get rid of them it will seem like a bargain.

[OddBeMe]

Half of illegals are using fake slls... which means they're paying taxes

[OddBeMe]

www.nbcnews.com/.../fact-check-how-much-does-illegal-immigration-cost-america-not-n950981

[msc545]

@Juxtapose And you know all this how exactly?

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 I have a brain and also can Google immigration numbers.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose How nice for you.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose yet not enough brains to compare cost versus returns from taxes and doing jobs no American wants.

[Juxtapose]

Even if that was hypothetically correct (which it is not and how the fuck can you be okay with them having fake Social Security numbers man?), the cultural damage criminal aliens do is incalculable. They do not share our values.

[Juxtapose]

Springfield Ohio has 60,000 residents and had 20,000 injected into the system. Taxes went up, costs went up, police are being overwhelmed and prisons had to be emptied... yikes!

[Juxtapose]

I guess the Democrats really want their slave class back.

[msc545]

No that's you people. None of you have ever forgotten how good it was for you economically when you had slaves prior to the civil war and you can't wait to get back to it.

[Juxtapose]

I am a classical liberal that is not registered to any party so you can take your assumptions to the garbage where they belong.

The Democrats were the ones who fought against civil rights for many years and they even said "we will get those n words voting for us for years". The Republican party was founded as the abolition party and meant to free slaves.

The great switch by the way is a lie, there was 10 Dixiecrats that switched to the Republican side and Richard Nixon stayed away from that racist shit and criticized them for bringing that to the Republican party.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose You are playing that old trick of confusing party names. Won't work.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 nope.

The big switch was fabricated? ↗

[msc545]

@Juxtapose Not fabricated but merely a change of terminology.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 it was absolutely fabricated. It never happened.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose Prove it.

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 I literally already did.

[msc545]

@Juxtapose How did you prove it - because you wrote it?

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 omfg did you even read it? 😂

[msc545]

Answer the question. How did you prove anything?

[Juxtapose]

@msc545 the fact that you act like my link was only my words shows me you did not read it and you are not arguing in good faith.

[msc545]

I have no idea what link you're talking about. Why don't you repost it and I'll read it.

[Anonymous]

Tell me why are theses people coming here illegally in the first place? Why not anywhere else? Why not stay where they are?

That is the reason they are risking their lives.

[OddBeMe]

Because we’ve ducked up their countries with American drug habits and easily smuggled American-made guns.

Next?

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme Just because they choose to make and trade drugs doesn't mean America is to blame. Unless America is equally blameless for being unable to stop choosing to buy the addictive drugs.

As for guns, if you have that kind of money you will have them even if you buy them from the Government.

[OddBeMe]

So Mexico Colombia etc has no real industry except making Nike shoes at 12 cents an hour. But there’s an American demand for cocaine and a need for guns to enforce the drug trade…. you have no empathy?

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme
In Mexico and Columbia you are allowed to live in expensively enough to survive at such low wages.

Have some empathy for Americans who are thanks to Democrat made laws not so allowed.

Americans who are generally as unwelcomed in their country as they are in ours.

[OddBeMe]

Well that's a non reply. Americans have zero affect from illegals. Zero.

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme American do indeed suffer significantly due to immigration:

1: Wages. Wages like everything is driven in reality by market demand for the labor required. Add more labor means the value of said labor is reduced. So large scale importation of labor means large scale reduction of the value of said labor.

2: Housing and food: Housing and food are both commodities and their value like labor is determined by demand. The more people looking to buy either which is inherit finite in the short run the higher the prices. As such Large scale importation of people also means large scale increase in domestic prices of theses goods.

3: Community: A community is the local population who's common attributes allow them to work together successfully. The most important of theses is language, followed by cultural values like religion and politics. Import large numbers of people who don't share theses and the community is divided and disrupted.

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme Of course I have empathy, I just have it for Americans too and recognize everyone is better off if they respect each-other's boundaries.

[OddBeMe]

Wrong. Corporations keep wages down. Illegals aren't taking American jobs. They're doing the jobs Americans don't want

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme
Tell me how is it that a "Corporation" can force anyone to work for them at any wage?

[OddBeMe]

Uhhh Walmart making taxpayers pay for food stamps for the majority of their workforce?

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme You mean like the welfare payment the goverment gives to subside illegal immigrants too?

Walmart pays the going rate, if they did not they would go out of business to those that do. The fact that everything else costs soo much relative to the value housing and food that said employees require food stamps is a statement of the low value of their low to unskilled labor. Among imported world of people with similarly set skills.

I get why rich companies and the individuals who own might want to maintain open borders and such trade to keep such costs down relative to the value of their own skilled labor. But the employees available to work dictate the wages not them.

We need theses people complaining about a labor shortage as was the case during the trump era to motivate them to drive up wages and create more higher skilled position via automation.

[OddBeMe]

And who lobbies for the going rate? If standard of living for minimum wage were kept up then it would be $30/hrs

And WHY are you obsessed with illegals? Even if they're getting some type of welfare it's a drop in the bucket compared to wall street.

See the real enemy

[Opinion Owner]

I am not going to tell you that the people in New York city are not unfairly advantaged by their access to the dollar via the federal reserve and superior position of information and market value value.

This is in fact the whole point in that their relatively small numbers compared to the less educated and positioned, is very much amplified by the trading and immigration situation which enabled them to be the financial elite of many billions of largely uneducated people not simply the 300 million Americans from which they came.
As such their relative local power over the local market is indeed quite abusively disproportionate. Being able to draw from a supporting workforce of ~10 times as many unskilled people.

I would furthermore not disagree with you @oddbeme If you really wanted a minimum wage you would index it locally to the cost of housing & food within a "reasonable" commute of the place of work. Not set an arbitrary number which is NOT valid in my state where I live.

Granted the effect of this is to either provide for lower cost of local living or drive this elite to more evenly disperse their wealth.

[OddBeMe]

Woah, we found some common ground. Cool.

It’s always strange when right wingers fight so hard against migrants but now for higher wages by the rich,

[Opinion Owner]

Its only common ground @oddbeme If you recognize the world is NOT the same as your little area of it. Thus agree to go about select goals differently via localized and dynamic changes that don't effect anyone outside.
That means No federal domestic policy changes are relevant.

[Juxtapose]

The lives of foreigners are not our concerned whatsoever and nor should it be. America comes first even at the expense of every other country on Earth.

[Juxtapose]

*our concern

[Ladsin2]

I suppose A. We all die. Nobody's made it out alive yet. Pretending otherwise is just juvenile.