Want to know what Americans knew about fascism in 1945?

[goaded]

The tactics they said fascists would use to take power in the United States “under the guise of ‘super-patriotism’ and ‘super-Americanism.’” were three-fold:

First, they would pit religious, racial, and economic groups against one another to break down national unity. Part of that effort to divide and conquer would be a “well-planned ‘hate campaign’ against minority races, religions, and other groups.”

Second, they would deny any need for international cooperation, because that would fly in the face of their insistence that their supporters were better than everyone else. “In place of international cooperation, the fascists seek to substitute a perverted sort of ultra-nationalism which tells their people that they are the only people in the world who count. With this goes hatred and suspicion toward the people of all other nations.”

Third, fascists would insist that “the world has but two choices—either fascism or communism, and they label as ‘communists’ everyone who refuses to support them.”

It is “vitally important” to learn to spot native fascists, the government said, “even though they adopt names and slogans with popular appeal, drape themselves with the American flag, and attempt to carry out their program in the name of the democracy they are trying to destroy.”

1. "During the first two weeks of October, Trump, ... spent $21.4 million on spots about transgender healthcare, or more than a third of its ad budget."

2. Trump wants out of NATO, and is about to go to Madison Square Gardens for a repeat of the America First fascist rally there in the 1930's.

3. Trump regularly calls Harris "communist" and "fascist" (and has Republican leaders McConnell and Johnson claiming that Harris is encouraging violence when Harris, when asked a direct question of whether she thinks Trump is a fascist gives an honest answer).

[Snakeyes7]

>First, they would pit religious, racial, and economic groups against one another to break down national unity. Part of that effort to divide and conquer would be a “well-planned ‘hate campaign’ against minority races, religions, and other groups.”

Obama did that years before Trump joined the political stage. In fact, it was this rhetoric that made Trump so popular in the first place, he was against it. The white supremacists with guilty consciences that came out of the Obama presidency attacked him like piranhas, ironically calling him a fascist, just like they did to anyone who disagreed with them.

>Second, they would deny any need for international cooperation, because that would fly in the face of their insistence that their supporters were better than everyone else.

So I guess that means that Woodrow Wilson and FDR are fascists too because they tried to stay out of the world wars until they got directly threatened. Neutrality is fascism apparently.

>Third, fascists would insist that “the world has but two choices—either fascism or communism, and they label as ‘communists’ everyone who refuses to support them.”

The communists have been employing these tactics for decades, in fact this whole "Trump's a Nazi" thing reeks of it. This is from the communist directive of 1943 found in a publication by the United States Congress House Committee on Un-American Activities called "Soviet Total War, 'Historic Mission' of Violence and Deceit":

"When certain obstructionists become too irritating, label them, after suitable buildups, as fascist or Nazi or anti-Semitic and use the prestige of antifascist and tolerance organizations to discredit them. In the public mind, constantly associate those who oppose us with those names which already have a bad smell. The association will, after enough repetition, become ‘fact’ in the public mind. Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics."

Trump is pro-free speech, supports Israel, has taken measures to ensure due process on university campuses so that no one loses their ability to get an education due to a false accusation, anti-identity politics, wants to lower taxes and the overall power of the government, and more. The democrats in government have done nothing but show that they want the opposite in all this.

At this point, the logic of the left is that enjoying your constitutional rights, the very things that are supposed to prevent fascism from coming to the US, makes you a fascist somehow.

[goaded]

Well, that's both a bunch of lies and totally illogical.

Obama didn't create any division, that was down to the right, his election brought them out in droves.

Did Wilson or FDR stoke hatred towards a minority group? Didn't they both join their respective wars? The document was written by FDR's administration!

Trump has repeatedly said Harris is a "socialist, communist, fascist" (regardless of how illogical that is), Harris has just agreed when asked if Trump's a fascist as people, four-star generals, who worked for him for years say.

[Snakeyes7]

>Obama didn't create any division, that was down to the right, his election brought them out in droves.

Oh yes, there were so many white supremacists that Obama got elected twice. How horrible.

Also, it was around the time of Occupy Wall Street that the media decided to increase the use of the words "racism" and "sexism" to create a false perception of a massive increase of these issues, stoking the division we see now.

Why else have we seen the rise of Antifa and BLM years before Trump joined the political stage? These people have been soaking it all in and now they see it in places where it doesn't apply like math, the naming conventions of rooms in a house, the concept of waking up early etc. and immediately assuming these isms are in play before they know all the details. i. e George Floyd, Johnny Depp, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, etc.

Not to mention labeling everyone they disagree with as Nazis long before Kamala Harris joined the race to say what millions of the most annoying people on Earth have been crying wolf about. All of these brainwashed lunatics are why Trump got elected in the first place.

[Snakeyes7]

>Did Wilson or FDR stoke hatred towards a minority group?

Yes, especially Wilson who was a fan of the KKK film "The Wealth of Nations."

>Didn't they both join their respective wars?

Yes only because they got threatened by the Central Powers and and attacked by the Axis Powers respectively. They didn't join because they thought it would be fun.

>The document was written by FDR's administration!

What document are you talking about?

>Trump has repeatedly said Harris is a "socialist, communist, fascist" (regardless of how illogical that is), Harris has just agreed when asked if Trump's a fascist as people, four-star generals, who worked for him for years say.

Yeah because they are all rely on socialist economic systems. Immense state power found in communism, Nazism and fascism cannot exist or will have trouble forming when the private individual has control over their own means of production.

[Snakeyes7]

*Birth of a Nation not Wealth of Nations

[goaded]

"What document are you talking about?"
Tell me you didn't read the question without telling me you didn't read the question.

Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet 64, 24 March 1945.

Obama would have been re-elected a second time, if he'd been entitled to run. Racists are a minority, but the Republican party has known for generations that they can make the difference in an election.

Show me a Wilson speech where he scapegoats Jewish people. Personal opinions are one thing, open bigotry is another.

You: "all rely on socialist economic systems" - Army Talk: "they label as “communist” everyone who refuses to support them."

“Fascism is government by the few and for the few.
The objective is seizure and control of the economic,
political, social, and cultural life of the state. Why?
The democratic way of life interferes with their meth-
ods and desires for: (1) conducting business; (2)
living with their fellow-men; (3) having the final say
in matters concerning others, as well as themselves.
The basic principles of democracy stand in the way
of their desires; hence—democracy must go! Anyone
who is not a member of their inner gang has to do
what he’s told."

"Any fascist attempt to gain power in America would
not use the exact Hitler pattern. It would work under
the guise of “super-patriotism” and “super-American-
ism.” Fascist leaders are neither stupid nor naive.
They know that they must hand out a line that “sells.”
Huey Long is said to have remarked that if fascism
came to America, it would be on a program of “Ameri-
canism.”

Fascists in America may differ slightly from fascists
in other countries, but there are a number of attitudes
and practices that they have in common. Following
are three. Every person who has one of them is not
necessarily a fascist. But he is in a mental state that
lends itself to the acceptance of fascist aims."

[dustybiker2]

@Snakeyes7 If you consider hate a religion then Obama was guilty of not being haters fav president. Half the country likes people only if they sound like they will allow them the freedom to do whatever they choose. Religions themselves attempt to control their flocks by offering salvation if they apologize at the end of each week. At least half heartedly.

[Snakeyes7]

>Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet 64, 24 March 1945.

Well he is a total hypocrite and dare I say a liar because if you actually look into Mussolini's ideology and history of his regime, Fascism actually referred to giving trade unions total power based on the original symbolism of the bundle of sticks. To quote Mussolini himself: “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.”

politicalresearch.org/.../mussolini-corporate-state

So based on that definition, we technically became a fascist nation as soon as we allowed lobbying. This also has nothing to do with capitalism either as the need for competition prevents corporations from forming.

FDR also not only allowed the Jim Crow laws to persist, which rely on the same division tactics the Nazis used against the Jews (if we are to pretend that they are synonymous with Fascists), he has appointed Hugo Black to the Supreme Court, who was later revealed to have been a member of the KKK. He also placed Japanese Americans in concentration camps.

>Obama would have been re-elected a second time, if he'd been entitled to run. Racists are a minority, but the Republican party has known for generations that they can make the difference in an election.

What does this even mean? "Making the difference in an election" can mean being able to convince enough people to vote for them.

>Show me a Wilson speech where he scapegoats Jewish people. Personal opinions are one thing, open bigotry is another.

Moving the goalposts are you? First you said minority groups and now you said Jewish people. I don't know of any speech he made condemning the Jews but given that he swoons over the KKK he likely thinks that he is superior to them anyway.

[Snakeyes7]

>Army Talk: "they label as “communist” everyone who refuses to support them."

As I have shown before, Communists do the same thing. Nazis, Fascists and Communists all rely on total state control with the only difference being the excuse for doing so and they are in this never ending ideological battle to prove that their crackpot ideology is better.

This may come as a surprise to you but the majority of Americans think that all three of these things are retarded and that is why they are in favor of the bill of rights as it is the secret weapon against any of the three from forming in the US.

>"The objective is seizure and control of the economic, political, social, and cultural life of the state."

This right here proves my previous point. None of this division of the people can be done in the absence of a government abusing its power.

>"The basic principles of democracy stand in the way of their desires; hence—democracy must go!"

This is rich considering that of the two candidates, Trump was the only one who got to where he is through democratic means. No one voted for Harris and the only reason she even made it to her position is because she is not white and is a woman. Biden's words not mine.

What's even funnier? Trump actually won both the electoral AND the popular vote. People aren't falling for the lefts "Orange Hitler" talk anymore it seems.

>"Any fascist attempt to gain power in America would not use the exact Hitler pattern."

Right because Fascism is not Hitler. Hitler is National Socialism. Equally retarded but there is a big difference.

[Snakeyes7]

>It would work under the guise of “super-patriotism” and “super-American-ism.” Fascist leaders are neither stupid nor naive. They know that they must hand out a line that “sells.” Huey Long is said to have remarked that if fascism came to America, it would be on a program of “Americanism.”

An authoritarian regime can arise from any talking points. The USSR has their own as well such as referring to the country as the motherland.

A patriotic message is not enough to determine if there is a rise of any of the three forming. The advocation of total state control needs to be there also, which I do not see Trump doing considering the democrats are the ones complaining about the spread of misinformation (censorship), private gun ownership (disarming Americans to do something they would be shot for) and "cis/straight/white/male privilege." (racial and gendered divisive language)

>"... there are a number of attitudes and practices that they have in common. Following are three. Every person who has one of them is not necessarily a fascist. But he is in a mental state that lends itself to the acceptance of fascist aims."

This is divisive in it of itself. This is like if a republican came up to you and said that wanting universal healthcare is a gateway to becoming a communist.

[Snakeyes7]

@dustybiker2 He might be, I would argue that the fact that Biden was Obama's VP was a massive advantage for him in 2020 because they wanted to relive the Obama years. We relived the Obama years alright.

[goaded]

Did you even bother reading the text at your link? It explains how that quote is almost certainly made up, and his attitude was diametrically opposed to it.

politicalresearch.org/.../mussolini-corporate-state
"Where the quote comes from remains a mystery, and while it is possible Mussolini said it someplace at some time, a number of researchers have been unable to find it after months of research."

[Snakeyes7]

Let's assume that it is a fake quote. We can reference other works such as Sorel's Reflections on Violence stating: "Through strikes it intended to bring capitalism to an end, replacing it not by state socialism but by a society of producers" which is synonymous with state socialism, the word "state" is even more redundant.

Oxford Dictionary says that a state is "a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government." A society that organizes itself politically and governs itself is a State. This is also why it is often referred to as a "collective."

Therefore Fascism is a socialist ideology as it takes the means of production away from the private individual and leave it up to the state to control it.

Still don't believe me? Let's take a look at the word itself. In Italian, the word "fascio" means "bundle" and if we remember the infamous "bundle of sticks" analogy and what is a union if not a "bundle?" Fascism therefore means "the totalitarian, cooperative, and ethical state - the final collectivist synthesis of nationalism, syndicalism, and Actualism" according to A. James Gregor in his book Mussolini's Intellectuals.

This means that these trade unions have become "organs of the state" which is where we got the term "corporation" from.

[Snakeyes7]

Now let's get into Giovanni Gentile who was the actual inventor of Fascism. According to Nicolas Farrell in his book Mussolini: A New Life, "Gentile... believed that the true state - his ethical state - was a corpus - a body politic - hence corporate state - and that the state was more important than the parts - the individuals - who comprised it because if the state was strong and free so too would be the individuals within it; therefore the state had more rights than the individual. Only within the ethical state could individuals realize themselves as proper individuals."

On a final point, Gentile himself stated from the book Gentile, Origins and Doctrine of Fascism: "The great social and constitutional reform that Fascism is accomplishing, instituting the corporative syndicalist regime as a substitute for the [old fashioned capitalist] liberal State, arose out of the very character of the Fascist State."

[goaded]

Come on. You're sort of sounding reasonable on the surface, but then you say things like: ""Through strikes it intended to bring capitalism to an end, replacing it not by state socialism but by a society of producers" which is synonymous with state socialism, the word "state" is even more redundant."

The quote you're using to boost your argument (from authority) literally says they're different things and you're saying they're the same. That makes no sense.

[Snakeyes7]

I am saying that there is no need to make the distinction becuase "state socialism" and a "society of producers" are the same thing and are redundant. "State" and "socialism" are also synonymous because socialism is state control of the means of production.

[goaded]

And yet, the text you quote says the opposite: "not by state socialism but by a society of producers". It's right, you're wrong.

If ""State" and "socialism" are also synonymous", then the United States is a collection of socialists. That's ridiculous.

[Danzigdawson]

Trumpism is fascism.

Trump is stupid and naive, he's always been a bull in a china shop who makes it all about himself; but he's surrounded by people who knows exactly what's going on and how they may profit from the rise of a governement of the trumptard, by the trumptard and for the trumptard.

[goaded]

Page 4: "We once laughed Hitler off as a harmless little clown with a funny mustache."

He, like Vance, really knew what he was doing. Trump's doing it to stay out of prison and for the power it gives him.

[beefcakebradybatson]

There's a new book about how Trump, his family and the Fourth Estate (press for you youngsters) connived to hyperinflate his wealth and overlook his casino haircuts.

[dustybiker2]

If the right doesn't have any dirt on someone they always always always lean toward the pedophile angle too. Such predictable BS. They have a manual I am sure. Demonic potions stirring.

Stay tuned. The show starts shortly. It will be years of digging out the mess, however had won. Each candidate would put the country in the pit. It was a no-win election for the US. Worst election yet.

[dustybiker2]

* whoever

[goaded]

In retrospect, Biden should have announced that he wasn't running again and allowed a proper primary. Once he'd got the nomination, had the party not gone for the VP who was already on the ticket, they'd have deserved to have done even worse.

[dustybiker2]

Agreed

[Gwendoline]

Isn't that how any radical group takes power? As well as seeking to deny political opponents a platform and displays of religion in public?

[goaded]

Not necessarily; communists take power by convincing the masses to rise up in a revolution against the ruling class by pointing out that people's lives are shit (which they were) and should be better. Fascists use the levers of power in the existing system to make their actions lawful and become that ruling class.

For example, they might stack a supreme court with ideologues, nominate judges that will avoid bringing their leaders to trial, take over and break the electoral process, etc.

Sound familiar?

[Gwendoline]

Not always the case. I think the fascists in Spain seized power from the legitimately elected republican government. Pretty sure there plenty of elected communist governments that used the levers of power ie eastern Europe

[goaded]

I forgot to mention that fascists have the assistance of the rich and corporations. Like how two major newspapers were going to endorse Harris for president, only for the owners to veto it (in one case, it seems, in exchange for his space company to have a meeting with Trump). And Musk, of course, spent billions (with the help of Russians) to buy and break Twitter and spread fascist propaganda to millions.

[Gwendoline]

Newspapers shouldn't be endorsing political candidates, nor should any media organisation. Newspapers should be reporting the news rather than acting as a propaganda wing of a political party.

[Gwendoline]

Musk's intrest in twitter seems to be greed. Twitter was being used for left wing propaganda but now it's more neutral.

[goaded]

"Not always the case." True; some fascists took power using the might of the military in a coup. That's still using/corrupting (what should be) government power against the people, though, and also (at least in the case of Spain) with the aid of "most landowners, and many businessmen".

[goaded]

Forgot the link: https://www.britannica.com/event/Spanish-Civil-War

[Gwendoline]

I think it was largely split down the middle in the spainish civil war. Franco basically landed I think with the spainish foreign legion based in north Africa and ruled until his death in the 80s.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Fascists convince the majority that some minority is the bane of their existence, then when in power, move to squelch their numerically smaller enemies while convincing the working and middle classes that allowing business to rob them is "patriotic," thus retaining and consolidating their strength.

[exitseven]

Trump does not want to exit NATO. He wants all the member countries to pay their share of their GDP that they agreed to , to pay for defense. Trump is not the one putting one group against another. Obama started the division we see in America today. White people are oppressors. Cops are fascists. Black people should be getting reparations and America is a country based on slavery. Biden and the democrats have only continued this trend.

So what if Trump ran commercials about transgender healthcare. No sane taxpaying citizen would vote for somebody who has supported giving sex chance operations for illegal aliens that are being held in detention.

[lightbulb27]

good response!

[goaded]

@lightbulb27 Not really.

[goaded]

The 2% target is a “guideline” that does not create bills, debts or legal obligations if it is not met and doesn’t require payments to NATO or the US at all. When Obama was elected the right lost its mind and all the racists crawled out of the woodwork to vote for Trump. America IS a country founded (not based) on slavery, half the country went to war with the other half to defend their right to own people, and then treated freed slaves, their descendants, and people who looked like them badly for another century or more.

The reason Trump is running commercials about transgender healthcare is to get people to hate: it's a “well-planned ‘hate campaign’ against minority races, religions, and other groups.” You don't get much more minority that a dozen people in prison. They want you to hate people who will never do you any harm at all.

Other examples are his comments about Latinos, and Muslims, and people fleeing dangerous countries.

[exitseven]

@goadedTrump runs those commercials to illustrate the insanity of the democrats. Letting in 20 million freeloaders and then to put the cherry on top , pay for their sex change operations is nuckin futz.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 "pulling out of the defense pack" Oh, look, so Trump is looking for an excuse to pull out of NATO. (Germany spends more than 2% on defence, in time for when the target kicked in.)

Not surprising, his own DNI thinks he's being blackmailed by Putin.

[Jersey2]

Germany put a stopgap measure in place. It is supposed to be spending a one-time $100 billion on the military which has atrophied. Germany dropped its spending 77% on the military since the 1990s.

There are still arguments in Germany if they will spend the money. The Germans say they cannot legally increase to 2% due to its own self imposed constitution, which of course can be changed. We don’t care. If there is an attack we should send some helmets and perhaps a medical team and that’s it. It is the German way.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 In case you didn't notice, after the 1990's Germany no longer had a border with an enemy.

[goaded]

@exitseven I don't suppose you can point to even one instance of that happening, let alone explain how it could conceivably affect 99% of the population. It's classic targetting of a minority group for hate.

[Jersey2]

“ In case you didn't notice, after the 1990's Germany no longer had a border with an enemy.”. Lol. Neither do we in the USA. And neither did Russia 1941. SMH. That was a dumb answer. I may not agree with you but your answers are usually better even if they are passing along fake documents.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 After the fall of the USSR, the US also had a "peace dividend" and reduced military spending massively under Reagan and HW Bush between 1985 and 1993 and spending stayed flat under Clinton. GW Bush started two wars that just ended up messing up the Middle East. Germany hasn't started any for quite a long time, now, and the idea they should have kept up military spending at cold war levels is ridiculous.

[Jersey2]

It wasn’t a ridiculous idea.

“Peace through strength”.

Now Germany is weak and cannot defend itself. Worse yet, it refuses to defend itself even with the end of a more peaceful world and a new set of threats. Because of this, they are an anchor around or feet and should be let go. Unfortunately that will mean the end of the Baltics and perhaps some others.

The new mark is 3%. Germany won’t make it. We can’t let them hold us back and drain us of money of which we do not have and are incurring massive debt. No to Germany.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 Strong enough to defend yourself against your neighbours is a lot cheaper when your neighbour is no longer the Warsaw Pact and most neighbours are members of NATO.

And did anyone really want a re-unified Germany to be heavily armed?

The US already spends more than 3% on "defence", so increasing the guideline would just be an excuse to drop out of NATO, like I've been saying.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 So why isn't Russia invading Germany or France instead of Ukraine? If you want to take land, it helps if you can reach it. Yes, you can fire rockets at far countries, but what does that gain you?

[RavVid]

You do know that Mussolini was an internationale communist leader don't you? He edited the Avanti communist news paper.

During WWI he noticed that socialists/communists still were patriotic instead of refusing to fight fellow proletarians as they rightly should have. So Mussolini decided to replace the proletariat with the nation. It was still Marxism, just with a different oppressed class.

There was a whole philosophy which is mostly about individuals suborning themselves to the state. Much the same as communism. No real difference.

Fascist is just a cheap easy insult now and has little to do with what it was.

[goaded]

Mussolini was kicked out of the socialist party and went the other way, creating fascism, extreme nationalism. Fascism is not "a cheap easy insult now", it's taken years for the media and Democratic party leaders to come around to admit the obvious. Trump is a fascist.

[RavVid]

I want to be clear I am leveling criticism at the international left socialists as I try to stay aloof from US politics.

In the Left's usage, nazism and fascism are used synonymously - in great ignorance because they were never the same political philosophy. Nazi did not call themselves fascist and fascists did not call themselves nazi in the same way that socialists would call them self communist and communists would call themselves socialist. They saw nazi and fascism as different.

Fascism stems from syndicalists or unions with the corpus being the whole state. Hitler simply kicked out the proletariate from the Marxist framework and replaced it with the germanic people as the oppressed class.

In WW1 Mussolinini observed that the proletariat was all too happy to support the state with their lives. So he concluded nationalism was stronger than internationalism and therefore tying into nationalism was a stronger way to proceed. Lenin rounded on Italian communists saying "Why did you let him leave? He was the only one amongst you that could lead a revolution".

Both Mussolini and Hitler were Marxist as Stalin but their modifications made fascism quite different nazism and different to internationale communism. Mussolini was quite happy with having a Jewish mistress and with having Jewish fascists.

The international Left either uses fascist and nazi devoid of meaning or redefines them. Either are simply Goebbelsian but that is a core feature of the Left after all.

[goaded]

I didn't read further than "In the Left's usage, nazism and fascism are used synonymously"

That's utter bullshit. The only people who have done that are the American right.

Jonah Goldberg wrote a book, "Liberal Fascism", lying that "the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler's National Socialism and Mussolini's Fascism.".

www.abc.net.au/.../10214302

[RavVid]

I can't speak on US left or right or Woodrow Wilson to Hilary Clinton or even US liberalism which is quite a bit different to elsewhere.

However it is quite clear that international socialists do you use fascist and nazi synomously when they call someone fascist then nazi in the next breath. There are numerous "explainers" of fascism that group fascism nazism incorrectly together.

However much I respect the reasoned argument of Bullshit it doesn't gel with the reality of how the international Left speaks and writes. But it doesn't really matter greatly.

A lot of people - including the authors of the piece you linked - seem to have difficulty understanding why one marxist state would fight another. Because they hated each other's guts of course. it didn't stop Catholics and Protestants fighting devastating wars that they worshiped the same God. Apostates can be the bitterest enemies.

From circa 1800 there were many forms of socialism and they certainly had great hatred of each other. The First and Second Internationales were failure for this.

In Hitlers table talks why did he say "I learnt everything I needed to know from Marx" and that "If it weren't for race, national socialism would be indistinguishable from internationale communism" if he didn't mean exactly that?

As you don't like my characterization of fascism and nazism then what is yours? Perhaps we could find agreement.

[goaded]

The Nazis promised everybody everything they wanted in order to gain power. A bit like Trump promising health care that everybody can afford, even if they're poor. (Nine years later, it turns out that he might have a concept of a plan.) Their actual actions define them, not their populist rhetoric.

I'm happy with the characterization of fascism and nazism as written in 1945, above.

[Jersey2]

That is a fake document. I won’t explain how I know because you will change it. It is FAKE! No one believes the lying Left or Germans like you who do not want to pay more for their own defense anyway so it doesn’t much matter as people see through this.

[goaded]

Don't you think your life would be better if you didn't have to lie all the time?

archive.org/.../ArmyTalkOrientationFactSheet64-Fascism

[Jersey2]

It’s fake. And I don’t click links on here. It’s obviously fake.

Even if it weren’t, which it is, it does not apply here at all. My father and uncles killed your relatives in Aachen and the North Atlantic and I was to go to Fulda Gap with my Armored Division so don’t lecture me you who sat at home when you could have joined and you who voted no to increase your defense spending.

[goaded]

It's not fake, you're simply lying. Also, you clearly know nothing about me or my family. Despite that, you're going to make assertions you have no way of knowing the accuracy of. Typical.

[Jersey2]

So you’re not “really” German. I suspected as much.

[goaded]

What, from all the times I've said that I'm British and living in Germany? Amazing detective instincts you have there.

[Jersey2]

I don’t keep up with your ramblings.

[goaded]

You also don't care if you're right when you claim something you don't like is a fake.

[noohair]

1. The trans-gender issue is about protecting minors. That is all.
2. The tactics that uses are so easy to see yet people are oblivious. When he says he wants out of
NATO, it is a message to Europe to pay up.
3. Harris calls him a Nazi, Trump responds.

[goaded]

No it's not, it's about finding a group to hate and lying about them. Do you really think children are coming home from school having had surgery?

Trump's Director of National Intelligence thinks Trump is probably being blackmailed by Putin. The Putin who would be the biggest beneficiary of the end of NATO.

No, Trump has repeatedly called Harris names like communist, socialist, fascist, she, on the other hand, once answered "yes" to the question "do you think Trump is a fascist?" - what should she have done, lied like Trump?

People who worked with and for Trump say he's a fascist.

[sawno]

You just whatever credibility you have left with this one.

[goaded]

LMAO! FFS. How?

[Juxtapose]

Your argument might be somewhat interesting if it was at all based in reality. It's not, we have already had four years of Trump.

Drop whatever drugs you are doing.

[goaded]

We had four years of a Trump who expected to lose and grift off the lie that the 2016 election was stolen (Roger Stone registered http://stopthesteal.org before the election). He had no ground plan, no pool of people who promised to be loyal to him over the constitution, so he was stuck with patiots who weren't. This time he does, provided by the Heritage Foundation, and probably even more loyal to them (and Vance) than Trump.

Trump will be happy if he avoids prison for his many crimes. (Crimes, by the way, that almost nobody denies he committed, they just claim he was allowed to commit them.)

[Juxtapose]

He is perfectly within his rights to question the election and he never got anybody to do anything on his behalf over it except investigate the matter.

He is completely innocent.

*

A local prosecutor magically turned a single state misdemeanor into 34 federal felonies in a state court in front of a judge with direct ties with the Biden administration, and whom also instructed the jury that they could still find the Defendant guilty even if they couldn't "find" or "identify" the crime. Stop gaslighting people with your disingenuous dangerous socialism bullshit and stop deliberately spreading disinformation."

[goaded]

A judge Trump appointed exceeded her authority to delay the trial of Trump for years, then dismissed the case based on the idea that special counsel aren't legal despite having been used for decades. Even she doesn't claim he didn't steal the documents, hide them and lie about them, obstructing justice, disclosed national security documents to people with no clearance, etc..

She's now on the shortlist for attorney general.

[goaded]

Trump was entitled to bring valid lawsuits, if he had evidence of fraud, he had none. Many of the lawyers who brought them have been disbarred for bringing them. After they were all done, he had no right to try and change the results of the election and he certainly had no right to send a mob to attack the Capitol.

[Juxtapose]

No you're not going to direct this to your bullshit. Answer why a misdemeanor was turned into 34 felonies.

[Juxtapose]

And Trump did not send a mob lol. TDS.

[goaded]

Because that's what the law says; falsifying business documents (and they always do one count per document, otherwise the whole case would collapse if just one was found to be genuine) is a felony if it's to cover up for a crime. Of course the jury determined that all 34 documents were falsified to cover up a crime, so Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts.

Of course Trump sent the mob. It was part of a plan that had been hatched over weeks if not years. Remember http://stopthesteal.org was registered in 2016, in anticipation of Trump's loss. There wouldn't have been anyone there if they hadn't spent millions encouraging people to turn up.

[Juxtapose]

Literally every businessman in New York would be criminal then since they do what Trump does and also the banks involved in that case testified on Trump's behalf and they were cool. They were satisfied with the business and wanted to do more business with Trump. This is a case of find me the man and I can find you the crime. We are over regulated to death.

No he did not and you have absolutely zero proof.

[Juxtapose]

Well I should not say "we" because this is none of your business. You're not American and you're probably not even German. I don't know what the fuck you are.

[goaded]

If "every businessman in New York" falsifies their documents they should be charged for misdemeanours, or felonies, if it was to cover up a crime. I have no problem with that, why are you cool with them breaking the law? Secondly, you're confusing the two NY cases Trump lost recently, you're talking about the $half billion civil case.

The court has hundreds of pages of evidence that Trump and his cronies spent months, if not years, planning to steal the presidency. You can even read a lot of it yourself. It's all about avoiding the votes being counted as they should be, either by persuading Pence to break the law or, finally, to attack the Capitol.

[Juxtapose]

Oh my fucking god you're talking about that January 6th bullshit? Dude, that doesn't even make sense. If he was going to take over, he would do it in the middle of his first term because he would still have a long time to control the military and set this up. He would use the military, not a bunch of civilians that do so little only one person dies and that is a civilian. What kind of fucking insurrection is that?

Occupying a building also would not shut down the government. It would have no long-term prospects and just makes no sense. It only makes sense if you have Trump derangement syndrome.

[goaded]

You just want to pretend it wasn't anything much and we should all ignore the evidence of our eyes (as well as the evidence at the Jan 6 investigation and indictment). I'm sure you know "that Jan 6 bullshit" was just the final, desperate attempt to stay in power after all the other legal and illegal means Trump tried had failed.

The military would not have followed such illegal orders, and rightly so; their loyalty is to the constitution, not the president.

The plan was (and probably is for this year's election) to avoid having the electoral college votes counted and confirmed so that the House, with a Republican majority of states, gets to install Trump as president with the thinnest veneer of legitimacy.

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

[Juxtapose]

It is so obviously bullshit and completely overblown. That is not how you stage an insurrection lol. Americans are well aware what an actual revolution looks like because that is how we were founded.

That is such a load of idealistic bullshit. The military follows orders and they will commit atrocities if they are commanded to just like cops will. You're ignoring history.

That's your fever dream.

Ironic that one of the most Orwellian users here is quoting him.

[goaded]

It's how you steal the US presidency against the will of the voters. And it looks like Trump and Johnson have got a plan to try again next year.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah it was about an illogical false equivalency. Lack of nuance is fascist.

[CuriousMufuxka]

I'm sure they were glad just to not use food rationing coupons anymore!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ppbNGu_Y1OE

[goaded]

That carried on long after the war in Britain.

[captain_voidwalker]

Your still accusing trump and his supporters of bieng fascists... yeah keep doin that it's working out real well for ya.

[goaded]

No, I'm explaining in detail exactly why his former CoS and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are saying Trump's a fascist.

[captain_voidwalker]

You mean the one he fired because he sucked at his job.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Did they know the democrat party would call anyone they disagree with politically a "fascist" then feign ignorance at why the country is so divided?

[goaded]

How often has Trump called Harris a socialist, communist, Marxist, fascist?

They cover that on page 5:
"Many fascists make the spurious claim that the world has but two choices—either fascism or communism, and they label as “communist” everyone who refuses to support them. By attacking our free enterprise, capitalist democracy and by denying the effectiveness of our way of life they hope to trap many people."

Republicans have been doing that for a century now, by the way.

[seeyounexttuesday]

And kamala is a child of a marxist who things the 1st and 2nd amendment needs to be curtailed and that the government should centrally plan what stores can charge for their products. So like actual communist behavior.

[goaded]

"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution," Donald Trump.

Laws against price gouging are not central planning and determining "what stores can charge for their products", and they're already in place in multiple states.

[goaded]

No, he just ignored the constitution and his oath to uphold it throughout his administration as he committed crimes against the country and finally tried to steal the presidency in defiance of the will of the people.

Next time, he'll be prepared.

[seeyounexttuesday]

You mean Biden who said he'd ignore the supreme court to push forward his plans?

[goaded]

Lie.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Biden isn't saying that? "The supreme court blocked us, but that didn't stop us"

https://x.com/Huberton/status/1777451377280581761

[goaded]

That's not the same as ignoring them, it simply means he'll try to find another way to fulfill his promise.

[seeyounexttuesday]

like circumventing the scotus? hm.

[goaded]

No. Like finding another legal way to help people with crippling debt.

[seeyounexttuesday]

There is no legal way for a president to pay off college debt.

[goaded]

"... the total amount of student loan cancellation to more than $175 billion for nearly 5 million people since President Joe Biden took office. That’s roughly equal to 11% of all outstanding federal student loan debt."
edition.cnn.com/.../index.html

[seeyounexttuesday]

11% too much.

[beefcakebradybatson]

The more things change...