Should people who want to run for public office have a mandatory psychiatric examination?

[msc545]

I ask because mental health problems among politicians are very common and very destructive since the politician can affect a very large number of people when they do inappropriate things. A Mental health examination prior to running for office might be a reasonable thing to do. I think we all know that we have politicians in office right now who very clearly have mental health problems and those mental health problems seriously affect their ability to do their work.

Yes mental health exams

No mental health exams because

[lightbulb27]

I think so. But this seems very suspect upon whom is performing and likely need 3, maybe a whole court to sort out whom is or whom isn't.

Probably best if all candidates go do this first before being added to the ballot. It's part of their "portfolio" they bring forth.

[msc545]

good idea.

[exitseven]

No, it would have come in handy during the Biden administration but it should not be mandatory. The public should be able to see their candidate perform a simple interview without a teleprompter or a press conference without cue card. Or not.

[msc545]

why shouldn't it be mandatory. It is mandatory for things like VA benefits or SSI disability.

[exitseven]

Because nobody bothered to check Biden even thought it was apparent he was senile in 2020 when he was running for President. Instead the democrats colluded with the fake news to hide his mental issues and keep him hidden most of the time. He racked up more vacation time than any other president in history. This was a crime against the whole country.

[msc545]

It was not "apparent" at all. You just need to say it was apparent so you have a reason to trash everyone around him. He is still not "senile" nor does he have dementia and I will again remind you that you are still totally unqualified to diagnose these things. The election is over - for God's sake drop this.

[exitseven]

It was apparent to anyone that works with the elderly. My wife pointed out the things to look for like his gait and his eyes. Sometimes he would zone out and just stare ahead for a few seconds. The lights were on but nobody was home.
My wife identified it as elder abuse almost 5 years ago,

[msc545]

That is not how dementia is diagnosed.

[exitseven]

@msc545 I call them as i see them. Even the NY Times had to report that when Biden went to see some rich donor he had to bring a teleprompter. Face it, the democrats kept him hidden away for the whole 4 years. If he did not run during the pandemic they never would have gotten away with it.

[msc545]

You can call them as you want but you are not qualified to diagnose dementia no matter what you think. None of the things you mentioned are indicative of dementia.

[exitseven]

if it walks like a duck...

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[msc545]

The AI gave you that MHO, not me.

[exitseven]

@msc545 I think that you might be suffering from dementia.

[Anonymous]

Who decides what sanity is? Who decides what is truth and what is not. Does the Matrix need more systems of control

[Anonymous]

Trump would have just bribed the psychiatrist like he did the doctor to say he had bone spurs to avoid the draft.

[Anonymous]

No. Their ability to do the job matters, not whether they're perfectly able-bodied and neurotypical. If someone with mental health problems can still do the job, and they want to, and the people want them to... why should they not be allowed? Abraham Lincoln was depressed, and he still did a good job.

[msc545]

People with certain cognitive problem and emotional disorders cannot do the job properly because it requires clear thinking and good decision making, and both of those are impaired in certain psychiatric disorders.

[Opinion Owner]

If that's true then it will be apparent once they get the job, and they can be removed once they've proved themself incapable. Nobody should be ruled out of a position they are otherwise qualified for just because of a personal condition. That's mad ableist. As i said already, Abraham Lincoln was "disordered," should he have been presumed incapable because of his mental or emotional struggles?

[msc545]

I want people to be examined before they run. They can stay in office for a long time and do a lot of damage if they win, and it turns into a legal dispute, as we have already seen.

[Opinion Owner]

If you rule people out before they even run, just because a test says they might not be as good at the job as someone else, then you will rule out many people who could do a great job or a good job or a fine job, just because you assume the worst of them and do not give them a chance. Again, this is ableist, and I do not support it in any way. No one should be preemptively disqualified from government position because of their personal struggles or medical history.

[msc545]

Better to rule out a few unsuitable people than endure 4 years of damage. You think what we do involves assumptions and chance. It does not.

[msc545]

Really - ? How many Psychiatric exams have you performed or even observed in person? How do you know Lincoln had mental health problems - did you examine him?

[Opinion Owner]

He had depression. This is agreed on by people who do those exams, he had all the symptoms enough to have been diagnosed at least. Do you think this should have barred him from being president, or don't you? It's a mental health problem they would have been flagged in an evaluation.

[msc545]

What people - who were they and what were their qualifications, and what are yours?

[Opinion Owner]

Psychologists and psychiatrists and such, you know, actual doctors who diagnose these conditions. What are your qualifications to say he didn't have condition? Who has said that he wasn't depressed that has credibility to make the claim?

[msc545]

There were no Psychologists and Psychiatrists back then.

[Opinion Owner]

That doesn't mean depression didn't exist. They can use documented behavior and statements from him to assess when they aren't able to have a face to face evaluation. Again, what qualified people have said that he was NOT depressed? None.

[msc545]

They can use documents and statements to make guesses and they can speculate. I don't thnk you really understand how these things are normally done.

I also don't think it matters at this point whether or not Lincoln was depressed or not.

[Opinion Owner]

Exactly. It doesn't matter because it didn't stop him from doing his job. Mental issues don't automatically make someone incapable or should be banned from having a job they are qualified for. I'm glad we agree.

[msc545]

we don't agree. People with mental disorders cannot, by definition, make good decisions or exercise good judgment. That is the basic effect of most serious mental disorders.

Depression, the one you cited without proof in your lone example, is a spectrum-type disorder and can be classified as mild, moderate, or severe (Per DSM IV) Mild or even moderate depression will generally not interfere with occupational functioning to a significant degree.

Would you now care to speculate on the degree of severity of Lincoln's alleged Depressive Disorder that you insist he had?

[Opinion Owner]

By WHAT definition of "mental disorders"? Definitely not by the definition of people qualified to define it, like psychologists.

And can I assume you are abandoning your original stance of anyone with "mental health problems" being banned from government, and now are arguing from a new and much more narrow position that only those with "most serious mental disorders" be banned?

And in either case, I've provided an example of someone I believe shouldn't have been banned and you presumably (since you have still not denied it) agree he shouldn't have been banned on the basis of depression alone (but only be banned if it is to a certain degree). So now can YOU provide an example of someone you believe SHOULD HAVE been banned on the basis of their "Most serious mental disorder"?

[msc545]

I am a PhD Psychologist.

[msc545]

I have better things to do than argue this with you.

[goaded]

Better education in spotting marketing techniques and other cons should be better.

[Cookingnaked1126]

It sounds great, until, "your guy" is found unfit for office. Then what do you do? Only one president, that I know of, was pretty much found unfit for office. Not only by his peers, but by a special prosecutor. Now you're gonna try to convince America, once again, that Trump is? Are gonna demand a "cognitive" test? You never did for Biden!

[goaded]

This would you lying about Hur, said no such thing but who also said:

"Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview, and in other ways cooperated with the investigation."

[Cookingnaked1126]

@goaded Skip the BS! Yes or NO, did Joe Biden break federal law by having classified documents? Keep in mind, he was Senator!

[Cookingnaked1126]

I should say, CLASSIFIED documents!

[goaded]

Again, I quote Hur: "We have concluded that there is not a prosecutable case against Biden. Although there was a basis to open the investigation based on the fact that classified documents were found in Biden’s homes and office space, that is ***insufficient to establish a crime was committed***. The illegal retention or dissemination of national defense information ***requires*** that he knew of the existence of such documents and that he knew they contained national defense information. It is ***not a crime*** without those additional elements."

So, no, Biden didn't commit a crime. Trump, on the other hand: "allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview, and in other ways cooperated with the investigation."

www.justice.gov/.../...ert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf

(Of course, private citizen Trump also showed classified war plans to journalists with no clearance while being recorded.)

[Cookingnaked1126]

@goaded FALSE! Joe Biden took classified documents out of a secure location as a senator and as a VP, which is without question illegal. We all know Hur wouldn't prosecute Biden because he was basically unfit to stand trial! How dumb are you? You keep bringing up "obstruction", that doesn't dismiss the underlying crime! Again, did Biden break federal law by having classified documents in an unsecure location, after he stole them as a senator and VP?

[goaded]

So you know the law better than the Special Council you were just erroneously claiming found Biden "pretty much... unfit for office"?

The very first sentence of the report reads: "We conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter. We would reach the same conclusion even if Department of Justice policy did not foreclose criminal charges against a sitting president." (In marked contrast to Mueller's conclusions about Trump and Russia.)

It goes on to say: "... for the reasons summarized below, we conclude that the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

You can read it yourself, if you like: www.justice.gov/.../...ert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf

[msc545]

I was thinking that anyone running for President should first be examined...

[msc545]

People who want to run for office should be examined before they run.

[msc545]

It would be more like unfit to run for office.

[Sevenpointfive]

you obviously would've voted for joe another term. to me that means you're crazy. your exam is done. now go vote

[Anonymous]

Yes they should, we just elected a Sociopath.

[Anonymous]

we should extend that to voters too

[DrPepper12]

Great goal but impossible to administer.

[Dargil]

A mental cognitive test and an IQ Test.

[msc545]

Sure. IQ testing IS cognitive testing. In addition to that, you want a straight up clinical exam since IQ testing doesn't usually reveal psychopathology.