Do you realize it’s a geopolitical LOSS and a Trump “back-down” if even one inch of Ukrainian territory is ceded to Putin?

[WhiteSteve]

I hear Donnie Smallhands is getting set to negotiate a peace deal with Ukraine and Russia…. that’s GREAT! War sucks, and should be stopped. Certainly no issues with that end.

BUT…. let’s not lose sight of the fact that Putin is UNQUESTIONABLY “the bad guy” in the situation, and he has no entitlement to even one square inch of Ukrainian territory.

Trump really has a chance to impress me here, and I will gladly give him FULL CREDIT if he does, honest.

But there’s only one outcome that won’t amount to “losing”, and that is complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine, a COMPLETE return of ALL land both sides (mostly Russia) took in this conflict, and monetary reparations paid to Ukraine to rebuild everything that was destroyed.

If Putin backs down COMPLETELY and does all this, and negotiates for Ukrainian admission to NATO, that’ll officially be badass on Trump’s end. Full credit WILL be given.

But no credit will be given if Ukraine loses any territory they had before Putin started wildin’. That will be a tremendous lack of backbone showed by America. Russia is CLEARLY 100% in the wrong, and any concessions made to them by America, to put it bluntly, would be pussy. I’m really hoping Trump grabs his nuts here and doesn’t bitch out in the face of Putin.

Anything less would be akin to saying to Hitler in the 1940s: “alright, look…. you can have Poland, but knock everything else off.”

We’re counting on you, Mr. President. And the world is watching. There’s only one correct outcome of full land restoration and Ukrainian NATO membership, and after all your big talk, you’d better deliver, and back Putin ALL THE WAY down, zero negotiation with terrorists. You’re supposed to be a master of The Art Of The Deal, but Putin deserves no “deal”, just a boot in the ass and to be sent to sit in the corner. Anything short of that outcome will be a HUGE blemish on Trump’s record.

[lightbulb27]

I'm on the side of end it, we'll see what they come up with...

It would only end by drawing a line in the dirt. Question is where is that line drawn and how many die and the financial cost to get to that line.

It's easy to say "can't have an inch of Ukraine"... for some.

Note: Canada (and Europe) has every right to take over USA's role, supply EVERY weapon imaginable including manpower to Ukraine until they achieve their personal goals, if that is what they think is a good idea. USA don't have to be involved...

I'd suggest you don't...

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, man, these exercises are more about firmly setting goalposts ahead of time, because it’s maddening to me watching so many of his supporters talking big about something he’s going to do, but then he doesn’t actually do it, does something different, tells his people that the change in plan/outcome is actually awesome, and then THAT becomes the new company line. I’m just not having it the second time around, haha.

Re: American involvement…. as the supposed leader of the Western World, I strongly believe it’s incumbent on us to be defenders of what is right in the world, and play a top role in establishing and maintaining world order, provided it’s done so with ultimately benevolent intentions. We didn’t have anything to do with the European theater in WW2, but we jumped in anyway, because it’s what was RIGHT. When an aggressive autocrat starts stepping out of line and trying to wrongfully expand his territory by attacking sovereign nations…. THAT’S ON US. I wouldn’t walk past a woman getting assaulted by a guy on the street, I wouldn’t walk past Putin attacking Ukraine. It’s simply “the right thing to do”, and the “cost” is of no concern to me. Ultimately, we can swing it, and our citizens simply need to have better character than “but I don’t want my taxes paying for that.” Fuck everybody’s money, do what is morally correct, no exceptions.

America IS involved, and that wasn’t Trump’s call, but it’s not like he’s just saying “we’re out of this monetarily, fight amongst yourselves.” He’s CHOOSING to be the arbiter of peace, he campaigned on it. So that’s HIS expectations that HE set. It wasn’t “I will pull us out of our involvement with the Russia-Ukraine War”, it was “I’ll end it as soon as I’m elected.” I’m holding him to his OWN campaign promise.

[WhiteSteve]

BUT…he can “end” something and still lose. It looks like a loss in Gaza. No two-state solution was arrived at, he basically is just going to ethnically cleanse the region after rooting on Israel to blow the place to smithereens. So the fighting may end, but under these terms, I would NEVER even begin to fix my mouth to say we achieved “peace in the Middle East.” He’s turning it into a goddamn real estate deal for fuck sake. So no credit will be given for that issue from me.

Ukraine, as I said, clearly the victim. There’s no way to construe otherwise. There are no concentration camps, but these are Hitler moves from Putin. There doesn’t need to be a Holocaust for it to be an atrocity.

FDR grabbed his nuts and said “no fuckin’ way.” There were no negotiations. No concessions. Against someone like Hitler or Putin, nothing short of unconditional surrender is sufficient. But for some reason, Trump wants to hear the clear-cut “bad guys” out, and it seems as if they have the leverage in the negotiations. It’s 2025, we need to abandon this attitude of “welp, sometimes there are wars and land is lost or gained through immoral means🤷‍♂️”, we CAN and SHOULD be evolving past this. Enabling Putin does not work towards that, and it will make Trump and America look VERY weak on the world stage.

[OneViewpoint]

Putin is not the bad guy in tRump's mind. Putin is tRumps BFF. And tRump is Putin's bitch. Any idiot could end the war by extorting Ukraine to give Putin what he wants by threatening to cut off military aid. Surrender. There, wasn't that easy?

But that is exactly what tRump is going to try and force Ukraine to do. Putin's investment in tRump has paid off really well. Almost as well as the investment by Reich Wing Oligarch's behind Project 2025 in tRump has paid off domestically.

Politics is a dirty business and with tRump everything is for sale.

NATO is actively working to adjust to a world where they are pinned between a Russian dictatorship/Oligarchy and a US dictatorship/Oligarchy. It may be the end game of European Colonialism.

[beefcakebradybatson]

"Reich Wing of the REPIGLIKSWINE!!!" Wish I'd thought of that one, OneViewpoint !!! Congrats, boyo !!!

[Caroline91]

Well, considering that he wants to take over Canada, the Panama Canal and Gaza, I think it is highly likely that he will continue to support the idea that Russia should maintain control of all captured parts of Ukraine. I believe, not only should all of that territory be immediately returned to Ukrainian control, but so should all parts of Ukraine previously grabbed by Russia be returned to Ukrainian control. AND, Russia should be made to pay for Ukraine to rebuild what this war has destroyed. Aggression on the part of one country against another sovereign state should never be rewarded.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, I mean, if I wanted to be a stickler about it, I’d ask for the return of Crimea too…. but I’m trying to be understanding here😝

[NoDecision]

Why should it be a blemish on Trump? Biden didn't do anything except throw our money at them. Don't you think it would be better, with more lives saved in the long run, if a deal was made in some way just to stop it? What good does carrying it on do? There have been over 1.5 million killed and both Russian and Ukraine cities are in ruins. I think if Trump can get it stopped period, it is a win.

[WhiteSteve]

Because the entire point of U. S. involvement in the entire skirmish was to stop Putin from expanding his territory, and help Ukraine beat him back just enough without getting U. S. troops involved, and potentially sparking a larger conflict between NATO countries vs Russia and THEIR allies, namely China, Iran, and North Korea. And Biden was doing a decent job navigating it.

My dad, who I don’t think has ever voted Democrat in his life, was almost about to vote Biden, solely because Putin and the American response is his top concern, he’s 93 and witnessed World War II, so he definitely views Putin like the Hitler of our day, and he’s an American Exceptionalist, so to him, USA’s number one role is “World Policeman.”

Ultimately he was just too old and racist to go through with voting Democrat when it wasn’t an old white man running anymore (seriously, lmao), but his biggest concern is still Trump fumbling this and bending the knee to Putin in any measure. Even HE gets it, and we don’t agree on much of anything politically.

The whole thing is about standing up to bullies on the world stage, defending democracy EVERYWHERE, particularly instances like this when there’s a clear “bad guy”, and not saying “but I don’t want my taxes to pay for it” when it comes down to it. We went without A LOT during World War II. My dad always tells me they had to ball up a shirt to use for a football when he was playing with friends growing up, because you couldn’t get leather products, the leather supply chain was all allotted to the war effort. His family had a beach house, and since it was on the coast, they’d have “black-outs” at night: you had to have dark curtains blocking out your home lights, no street lights on, and they had to put black tape over the top half or your car headlights, all just in case there was an offshore German submarine, it made the mainland harder to target in a nighttime attack.

[WhiteSteve]

Point is: Americans, even civilians, made TONS of lifestyle sacrifices for the effort to defeat Hitler, and did so happily and patriotically…for not much other reason than it was the right thing to do. THAT’S the America my dad knows and reveres. THAT’S who we used to be in the world, and we were respected for it. Isolationism wasn’t any part of the plan, and oddly enough, the years right after World War II are the time period a lot of the MAGA folks harken back to as America being “great.” But being isolationist and running America with the attitude of running a monetarily successful corporation, rather than the ideal situation of running it as a stable society (not one and the same) isn’t the way to go, morally.

America has a moral obligation to protect our allies against egregious aggression from nefarious actors on the international stage. The question should be “how do we win?”, not “how much is this going to cost us?” That’s selling your soul for money and worldly possessions, and I’d like to see us not be that kind of country. We haven’t really been “the good guys” in a clear-cut sense SINCE World War II, and now is when we would be. But due to this change in leadership, it doesn’t seem that “doing the right thing morally” is much of a concern anymore.

[WhiteSteve]

So, again…”stopping =/= winning”, it’s HOW it stops. There’s no way to argue that Putin is entitled to any land in Ukraine. He attacked them out of the blue, for no reason other than expansionism to regain old Soviet territory (we had a whole Cold War for decades just to stop that…I’m old enough to remember the Berlin Wall coming down, and that was just such a joyous occasion for most of the world. I’m not a huge Reagan guy for domestic economics reasons (over the long term), but credit where due, he was the guy who stood up to the Soviets and announced to world “Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR! DOWN! THAT! WALL!”, and we watched East and West Germany just become “Germany” again, East and West Berlin just become “Berlin” again, as Germans were literally out there with sledgehammers and pick-axes demolishing said wall. I was young, probably in 6th grade, but even at that age, I realized that was a huge historic event I was witnessing.

Now it’s 2025, and we just have a guy concerned with rebranding the Gulf Of Mexico and Mount Denali, HE’S talking about taking over sovereign people’s land, with vaguery when it comes to “how?” Won’t even guarantee that he won’t take these places by some kind of economic or military pressure…. this is NOT who America is supposed to be.

[WhiteSteve]

It’s about maintaining order in the world. We’re the toughest kid on the block, we have to hold down our neighborhood of allies when the bullies from the next neighborhood over show up looking for trouble. Maybe the cost comes to us if we rip our shirt or scuff our sneakers in the fight, but the point is defending the little guys from our neighborhood, shirt and sneaker budget be damned. You don’t let Russia or China or whoever walk in and take over the park you hang out at just because you don’t want to get grass stains on your favorite jeans. You just do the right thing, period, end of story. Otherwise, where does it end. What message does this send to China about Taiwan, as an example? “America is out of the business of protecting others, now is the time to strike!”

And if we shrug our shoulders and say “welp…sucks to be Taiwan”, then we’ve negatively changed, man, as a country and as a people. It’s about the principle.

[TheSmellOfVictoria]

Under your own admission, Putin started the war, NOT Trump. Trump wasn't even president lol Trump is under no obligation to appease you or anyone. If concessions are made to Russia, are you going to let Zelenskyy off the hook and blame Trump? Your entire post is childish and stupid.

[WhiteSteve]

This reads like: “I know Trump is going to bitch out to Putin so I need to attack the premise of the argument instead.”🤔

This is all based upon Trump volunteering himself to be the negotiator of peace. That was his campaign promise, not mine. I don’t think he even really gives a shit, he just wants credit for it.

Zelensky is over a barrel now. His strongest ally turned on him, via election. He’s the good guy, and now he’s here on the sideline while Trump and Putin talk by themselves? That’s pretty fuckin’ weird.

I’m just saying that, as a historical analogy, Putin’s Russia is Hitler’s Germany, bent on expanding their territory against the will of sovereign nations. America USED TO oppose that. I’m just saying FDR would have NEVER buckled and gave up or endorsed the “good guys” giving up concessions. Trump will look really weak if Putin gains ANYTHING out of this bullshit. And I hope Trump surprises me, I’ll come back here and tell you he did a great job with this issue if that’s how it plays out.

But I’m just not giving credit or talking about Nobel Peace Prizes if we just say “sorry, Palestine/Ukraine…. you lose. But at least we stopped the war!”

[AyChingao]

Putin is already a war criminal for starting a war of aggression with Ukraine, whp did nothing but sit there and exist on the Russian border.
I seem to remember awhile back that Trump said something to the effect of "ukraine doesn't exist anymore, the buildinds are destroyed, the people are dead, They should be smart and do whatever they have to do to stop the fighting (paraphrase)
Pretty well tells you where he stands. He obviously admires Putin a great deal and wants arrenrion from him much like the arrention he could never get from his own father... I predict he'll advocate for total surrender with all Ukrainian territory being ceded to Russia

[beefcakebradybatson]

Putin wants to return to the "Greater Russia" days of the Tsars, which is why he attacked Crimea in 2014, and when not challenged, hit Ukraine next. Trump wants to re-colonize the world, so he and Putin are kindred spirits.

[Still-alive]

I watched a talk by historian Timothy Snyder where he said that Ukraine is not only fighting for their independence but also fighting back against the very old idea of empire territorial expansion altogether. so if Ukraine fails it signals to the rest of the world like China that they can expand their territories through force too...

so for our futures sake Ukraine must not fall!

[WhiteSteve]

Exactly. This will make us look weak as fuck.

[purplepoppy]

Trump's plan to end the war seems to be nothing more than telling Ukraine to surrender or else. Even the right wing uk tabloids are speaking of Russia pushing into other European countries emboldened by Trumps support. I would not put it past Trump to order an American attack on Ukraine to force them to accept Putin and Trumps plan.

Trump wants Europe tied up in a war with Russia so America can invade Greenland unopposed.

[TheSmellOfVictoria]

"even UK tabloids" Goddamn, that is rich!

[dustybiker2]

@TheSmellOfVictoria You overlooked her "right wing" part of that quote. And yes. They are rich.

[loveslongnails]

Giving Putin ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME is a loss for the world. Putin will get what he wants out of it and Scump will be his boy puppet in the end. Of course, Scump will spin it like he wins and got what HE wanted, IF there even IS a deal. NOW, from New York... It's Saturday Night Live !!! We're living in an SNL sketch.

[WhiteSteve]

Lmao, fuckin A right. How is this real life?🤦‍♂️😂

[Agape93]

His cucks won't care. He could sodomize a baby on TV, execute it and claim he was christ himself, and not one of his cucks will disagree

[WhiteSteve]

Real talk. Wild time to be alive🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Agape93]

Gotta love it

[bellicose]

No it's not moron. That was a Democrat war start by Obama & Biden. It is a loss for Democrats. Quiet frank, real Americans say the diamonds have to come back and don't give two shits about your Nazi brethren in Ukraine. I hope all your relatives in Azov got put in the ground.

[bellicose]

started
frankly

[WhiteSteve]

I was waiting for how long it’d be before we got our first “Ukraine is the REAL bad guy” comment🤦‍♂️😂

Ending the war for the sake of ending it ain’t shit. I’ll be impressed if he sticks to the correct guns, recognizes Putin as the bad guy, and doesn’t pussy out to him.

No American started this war, and it’s foolish to claim it would or wouldn’t have started due to anything having to do with America. Helping Ukraine was the correct thing to do, unless you’re a Putin-sympathizer. Is this Tulsi I’m talking to?😂

[bellicose]

The problem for you is that nobody is trying to impress you. You narcissistic Nazi shit stain with no power. Your fall on def ears. Get use to not mattering. You're irreverent moron.

[Twalli]

I guarantee you that will not happen. Trump's plan was to give Russia all of Ukraine they already hold. He may have xhsnged hus mind, but he was campaigning with that plan.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, definitely won’t. This is more trolling/receipt-collecting😝

[dustybiker2]

You have a rock (putin) and a dipshit (trump). putin isn't losing. They've always been buddies over some inside deal though, maybe that will keep it from flicking toward USA.

[Ngs54]

I love how y'all went from "Ukraine will win the war" to "oMigoD, we must at least keep a few Ukrainian cities.'"

[goaded]

Kinda like "Russia will have Ukraine in a week" to three years later...

[Ngs54]

@goaded It's funny to see people still believing in "Putin said; in a week", which is US propaganda.

[goaded]

I didn't say that, and you know it.

[Spencer10]

Yes its a loss for US policy and International Law.

[RavVid]

Putin's application to join NATO was rejected so I don't think he can negotiate for Ukraine.

I think the task is to resurrect the cold war and destroy the Russian economy completely That's the deal I want.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, I either wrote that awkwardly or autocorrect took away a key word (doing that routinely lately…gets worse with each update🤦‍♂️), it’s Trump who needs to negotiate for Putin to drop his stipulation of no NATO membership for Ukraine.

Another Cold War isn’t necessarily where I want to go with it, but I prefer that to basically surrendering to Putin and telling him he can keep stolen land and we’ll back off and allow him.

[RavVid]

Oh I don't think it was awkward. It does take quite some time to join NATO. It has to be unanimous and a country current cannot have a disputed border. Hungry & Turkey are likely to reject in order to extract benefits from EU.

The history is that Russia is problematic in terms of invading other countries. Will it ever be otherwise? So as Russia is badly hurt currently. so no better time to finish them off financially. Trump famously tried to stop the Nord stream gas pipelines in his first term.

They need to stay closed down to keep Russia very poor.

[DrPepper12]

He's right. Status quo ante would be impressive. I'd be a one day cult fluffers if he got crimea back too!

[beefcakebradybatson]

I do, but Traitor Trump wants to appease his Massa.

[Lliam]

Try reading a history book instead of getting all your opinions from corporate media.

[WhiteSteve]

My degree is literally in History. And I don’t watch corporate media🤷‍♂️

I just see the situation for what it is. Biden was keeping an aggressor at relative bay for years, without getting directly involved and setting off a domino effect of Russia getting China or Iran involved.

Trump’s only concern is American money and looking like he brokered peace. And I’m just saying “peace” isn’t the desired goal, defending sovereign land and throughly snuffing out an aggressor is. Simply ending the war is not a win. Ending the war and Ukraine is the winner and Russia is the loser is the only way to “win.”

And I’m just very concerned that he’s walking into the whole thing way too Russia-friendly. All this guy ever does is talk big, and throw his weight around. He’s fucking with our closest allies over a wildly overblown and mischaracterized “border crisis.” He got punked by both countries, didn’t get much of anything that wasn’t already coming and agreed upon before he even took office, and he immediately backed down because the stock market was TANKING at the open on that first Monday. But of course he doesn’t tell us that, he tells us Mexico and Canada folded, and his supporters believe it🤦‍♂️😂

All Trump’s tough talk, this is the time for it. “Hey Putin…back the fuck up or shit is about to get REAL. I’m not gonna tell you twice.”

We need that Marlo Stanfield energy towards Putin right now…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc0rHhZpOH0

[Pterodon]

Remember when Biden said to Putin a minor incursion is ok

[WhiteSteve]

Source? Also, Joe Biden is retired. Trump has the Presidency, the House AND the Senate, and a right-wing biased Supreme Court that doesn’t even seem neutral anymore. NO FUCKING EXCUSES, Trump and Republicans are on the hook for EVERYTHING that happens the next four years. You can’t duck blame anymore, this is 100% you guys’ show. You better come with great results, or we’ll be out here spotlighting every failure.

[Pterodon]

It was all over the news