Are the Russians going to admit defeat in Ukraine? Or will they literally forfeit their entire military trying to "win" this war?

[Wade12345]

The CIA recently estimated that the Russians have already suffered 80,000 Casualties in the war. They'd be idiots to keep trying to invade Ukraine. I told you guys Ukraine would bleed the Russians dry, and they have.

[Curmudgeon]

Really? Russia *is* getting bogged down and not blitzkrieg-ing through Ukraine, and perhaps many thought that was supposed to happen and Russia was supposed to have a master blitzkrieg type plan, but on the geopolitical ground Russia has largely won the following two big wins:

1. The Black Sea is under Russian control, other than the Bulgarian, Romanian, and Turkish coasts obviously. Ukraine has been cut off from Black Sea access, and will likely remain cut off.

2. The ethnic Russian dominated areas of the former on-paper Ukraine (Crimea, Donbass, Donetsk, Luhansk) have been annexed, and in fact, in the minds of the ethnic Russians living there, liberated to become one with Mother Russia again. Sadly, when empires break up, they do not break up along nice neat ethnic lines and the aftermaths of their breakups often lead to more and even nastier wars. (See the aftermath of Austria-Hungary, 1919-1939). See also the following lecture with maps showing just how divided the on-paper Ukraine was, and how the areas being taken by Russia largely follow and match the ethnic patterns and voting patterns of prior Ukraine elections, from 6:08 forward:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JrMiSQAGOS4

What has also become apparent:

1. Ukranian hyper-nationalism, leading to persecution of ethnic Russians in it, alienated the large ethnic Russian minority in Ukraine, and those ethnic Russians revolted, and Putin took advantage of that, first taking the Crimea region in 2014 under Obama, and now taking more ethnic Russian areas again under Biden. The utterly dishonest claims of Leftists, that the Trump Administration invited this, ring hollow. Gee, why no Russian aggressive moves on Ukraine when Trump was the USA president?

2. Contrary to Western propaganda, Putin *did not have* a master plan of conquest. Why can I state that confidently? Because Russian moves have been tentative and ad hoc, rather than decisive and clearly planned ahead, and other than a grinding attrition and a pushing westward towards Transnistria (the last heavily Russian exclave in Moldova just west of Ukraine, and I can see Russia annexing that too), we are just not seeing any definite Russian strategy at all.

3. Meanwhile the USA, NATO and the European Union made reckless promises to the Zelinskyy regime (NATO membership and EU membership) that they had no intention of keeping. Of course Putin is a nogoodnik, but *that's not the point*. The West should have never made promises it was in no position to keep. The Western politicians and their followers, both leftist and Neo-Conservative, are virtue-signaling with Blue and Gold and Ukranian Trident logos and hashtags, on top of a growing pile of dead bodies, and this is rather disgusting, frankly.

4. Ukraine *could* have been kept intact, with its pre-2014 borders, if the Obama Administration had simply agreed to not extend NATO and the European Union into that Ukraine, and simply agreed to keep that larger Ukraine as a neutral "buffer state" between Russia and NATO. And a lot of people would still be alive and healthy today.

5. The USA is committing itself to more foreign entanglements, when it is frankly too broke and facing too many problems at home to do this. NATO expansion may make American leaders feel good and triumphant, but it will prove to be a "booby prize" and an economic drain. (I am running out of space, more on that in another post).

So what happens next? This young YouTube scholar/commentator I think has it right:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/mhyl1RGHX2E

[Lliam]

I question the 80,000 figure. And why no mention of Ukrainian military/Nazi casualties or destruction of equipment. LOL
I always trust the word of the CIA. Spies don't lie. ROFL

Russia never planned to occupy all of Ukraine or force a coup. It set out to protect Donestk and Crimea from Israeli-like ethnic cleansing and slaughter. It stopped NATO from encroaching right up to its border. It retained its naval base at Sevastopol and access to the Mediterranean. It destroyed most of Ukraine's military capabilities. It got to play war games and test out some new weapons on Nazis. It captured valuable information from biolabs. It captured prisoners who have valuable information about war crimes against Ukrainian citizens. It demonstrated that its economy was stable and that NATO "sanctions" would not hinder it's trade relations with most of the world, including BRICS nations. It watched the EU and NATO countries damage their own energy, agriculture and trade needs. It watches as Western countries spend tax money on a manufactured boondoggle and sink deeper into bankruptcy. And it shined a light on the West's hypocrisy, corruption, dishonesty and aggressive malevolence. More info will come out as Russia reveals captured information on a number of subjects.

In the end, Russia has become stronger and the West has become weaker. Even the U. S. petrodollar is in jeopardy.

It was the U. S. and its NATO lapdogs who gave Russia no choice but to take action. And from what I've been hearing, the Russian military has behaved in a professional and humane manner.

This was never intended to be a blitzkrieg or shock and awe. It is achieving its goals.

[Wade12345]

Please stop with the Nazi nonsense. The Ukrainian president is a Jew for goodness sake.

[Lliam]

Oh, and that means that Nazis don't control him.
Are you saying that Nazi forces were not incorporated into the Ukrainian military? Yes, actual Nazis.

Do you think mainstream media is giving you truthful information about what's happening over there?

[laurieluvsit]

You're being gas-lighted Mr Wade.

The Communist News Network (CNN) and the Public BS Stations (PBS) and the other alphabet indoctrination specialists have been lying to the American people for decades.

The fact that you are not aware of this is very sad.

I know this makes you angry to hear, which reaction is also part of the training the propagandists have perpetrated upon the American people because they do not want you knowing the truth. That is what everyone should be angry about.

[JohnK123]

Go to Instagram and search president zelensky and the ministry of defense ua…. That will show the Ukrainian real estimates of the war

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

I am not sure where he is wrong?

[laurieluvsit]

@GutsNCascaBerserking
I appreciate your admission and for demonstrating my point.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@laurieluvsit
Once again, you haven't made any arguments on the contrary.
So what points of his question are factually incorrect?

[laurieluvsit]

@GutsNCascaBerserking
First, your mind is closed to the truth of what is happening in Ukraine.

The reason I know that is because if it wasn't you would know the truth already from non-communist sources, which are abundant, and would not be asking me for it so that you could spew more propaganda that you are getting from your communist handlers.

I am well aware of the training that you have received to counter the truth, whether you know it as such or not. If fact there are guys like you that are paid to counter the truth on social media sites like this and It wouldn't surprise me if you weren't one of them.

I study health and politics 3-5 hours per day, seven day per week. I share the truth with those who have an open mind for the truth. You have make it abundantly clear that you do not and are quite prepared to trample the truth as you have been so apply trained to do. If you wanted to know what is really happening in Ukraine, you would and wouldn't be asking me to tell you.

You seem to be quite comfortable in your sand box of propaganda so you can have fun there, but I won't be joining you Mr Guts, sorry.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@laurieluvsit Did you know in your entire reply
You didn't even once explain "what was happening in Ukraine"
You simply said, and I shall paraphrase

"You don't know what is happening, because your sources are wrong, and I know what is happening, because I don't use your sources"

Once again
What has he stated that is wrong?

[laurieluvsit]

@GutsNCascaBerserking
It is no wonder you don't know what is going on in the world.

I answered your question in great detail, yet you didn't see it.

You are being led by the blind and have become one of them.

Good luck Mr Guts

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Furthermore, the continued assumption this has anything to do with CNN, or my perspectives are from my "Communist Handlers" without a willingness to explain your position, or any counter arguments... is really counterproductive.
I am asking you for your perspective, and have continued asking you what specifically is wrong with his point

Regardless, of what sources you use, even the Russian state owned.
The acceptance is that the war has been costly, and that the attrition has been quite high.
The Russians were forced to remove all of their forces from the North due to the attritional costs, and inability to take Kharkiv. Which was one of their first major objectives.
This is why much of the war is now based in the South/Eastern portions of Ukraine.
The Russian media itself accepts losses of over 5,000+ KIA. (which is extremely high for a relatively short conflict). This is of course likely understated as well, with the limitation of freedom of press and information in the Russian Government.

So once again, what point does he have that is wrong?

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@laurieluvsit You didn't even attempt to create a counterpoint
You simply told the OP that he was blind, and watched too much Communist propaganda, as you claimed for me as well.

Yet, I am here asking for specifically what is wrong with his question?
What details are missing? What are details are wrong?

[Avicenna]

I don't think we can take the word of the CIA as far as casualties go, and definitely not the gaslighting leftist media.

I very much doubt that Putin wanted to try to occupy and control such a large territory as the whole of Ukraine. The Russian-dominated areas and strategic locations? Of course, and they're also the parts of the country that matter most economically. Putin can also move more ethnic Russians from Russia into the parts of Ukraine that he has or will annex.

There has already been a large cost to the US, and we are currently paying Ukrainian government workers' salaries as well as Ukrainian government pensions.

[Avicenna]

But the Russian way of war is to take lots of casualties if necessary and to not weep about it, so that's far from the best metric of success or failure.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Russia themselves admit to over 5,000+ KIA, and consider the typical structure of the Russian state own media, it can be assumed to be higher than that.
80,000+ Casualties as the CIA estimate, would likely include around 20,000 KIA, and 60,000 WIA.
Perhaps its "overestimated"
But its likely realistic that Russian losses are over 10,000
and that doesn't include the Republic of Donestk and Luhansk (which one of them claimed 2,500 KIA among their own forces).

[Avicenna]

@GutsNCascaBerserking: Again, casualty figures alone tell us little.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

It shows that it is an attritional conflict, where Russia has made very few gains.
They have been forced on several occasions to change their stated war objectives.
Let us be real.
1. Russia was forced to abandon their plans for a complete coup.
2. Russia was forced to abandon all of their campaigns in the northern portion of Ukraine, due to the inability to capture Kharkiv.
3. Russia has conquered very little outside of Donbass, and Crimea... which were territories already under their control prior to the invasion.

It is not a good look, and the consistent military leadership change ups looks quite poorly on them.
If anything, I think it shows the Russian military suffers from some of the same problems the Afghan Military suffered from... though not quite to the same extremes.
Corruption, Low morale, too many inexperience/poorly trained men, poor leadership.. etc.
Russia didn't even take control of the skies, which only exacerbated the casualty issue..
CLEARLY Russia has a more powerful airforce.

It was poorly organized on all levels
and the whole structure of the nation (which is basically an Oligarchy with Putin on top) only made the situation worse.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

I will further add, that I am unsure if its something that they can afford to continue, with the near collapse of their economy, the heavy anti-war movement that the Government has been forced to put down... etc.

Can they scrap something from this? Possibly... but I am unsure if the cost is even worth it now.
they can barely control the territory in Ukraine they now possess.

If we look at for example the USA military adventures in Iraq/Afghanistan
the Invasions were the easy parts (and quick victories)
the complexities came from the civil wars that happened afterwards
and the incompetent, corruption, etc of the host nations (iraq/afghanistan) governments that the USA attempted to set up...
^ Afghanistan is a VERY prime example
a nation that had a successful election in 2014..
took control of its own security
and then through its own corruption, and divisions (only worsened by USA corporate interests)...
it didn't take long for them to collapse when the USA removed its influences

But with the Russian conflict
they haven't even successfully gained any real momentum in the war
that makes it seem they can defeat the Ukranian military...
that is quite humiliating.

[BCA6010]

You do realize that "casualties" also includes wounded and missing, right? Just because soldiers are wounded doesn't mean they're out of the fight or not coming back once they recover. This is a very popular metric to go by when trying to sway public opinion because most people assume it means KIA.

I'd take a claim by the CIA with a grain of salt. No doubt they know the real numbers behind closed doors, but anything they're willing to publicly announce should be treated as soft propaganda at best. The reality is that Ukraine has also taken a pounding and the most likely outcome of this war is both sides will agree to a cease-fire under negotiations, and depending on the state they're in at that time, and it'll probably favor Ukraine.

[DryGermanGuy]

I agree, the metrics are murky at best. My own guesstimate would be ~20.000+ killed and ~40.000+ wounded.
Then again, the Russian high command still shows not much concern for their soldiers. I have seen current field interviews with Ukrainian anti-tank gunners who still wipe out whole columns of badly trained Russian grunts. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

The Russians themselves admit to at least 5,000+ KIA.
That is likely an understatement by them.

[Wade12345]

People who get hit by bombs in modern warfare or who get hit by an IED in urban warfare are generally out of the fight. You lose an arm or leg or both eyes if you get hit by an IED even, much less real military grade explosives.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 You are absolutely correct.
80,000 casualties, with 20,000 of them dead, and 60,000 wounded.
would imply that many of those wounded men are no longer going to be in the fight

[Wade12345]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Even small arms fire can blow your arm clean off. If you get hit by all 3 rounds from an M16 set to 3 round burst, you could be cut damn near clean in half.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 you are exactly right
Lots of replies here make me sad.
Seems like peoples understandings of war and history come specifically from Call of Duty.

[Wade12345]

@GutsNCascaBerserking

Correct.
If a Civil War era mini-ball hit the other solder in the Femur, the strongest bone in the body, it disintegrates bone and even if it didn't blow your leg off in one go, the field surgeon needs to amputated your leg.

The machine guns they have now are twice as destructive PER ROUND as a civil war era musket.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 These guys probably just assume there are medpacs that give instant heals, and spawn points after death.

[Wade12345]

@GutsNCascaBerserking

Exactly. Warfare injuries are usually not a "Boo Boo" that you can heal back from.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 Honestly, the level of ignorance if seen from people posting here is insanely depressing.

[Wade12345]

And Gangrene is still a bitch. It killed more people in the Civil war than did the bullets, and it still kills people> you get a bad enough case of gangrene going and you can lose both arms and both legs and be reduced to a vegetable or dead, or better off dead anyway.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 no doubt about that.

[BCA6010]

I'd actually be willing to bet that the number of KIA to WIA is probably disproportionately high compared to how most western countries perform in combat. US deaths would be significantly higher in the last couple decades if we hadn't overhauled our tactical casualty care/first response training, and the fact so many Russian losses have been against isolated vehicle crews, it's unlikely trained medics are readily available to them. Another detail I left out of my original answer is that no numerical data that I've seen even notes friendly fire incidents. With both countries using largely the same types of vehicles with few exceptions, even with special markings there's no way that hasn't been a problem too. In fact we *know* Russian ADA crews have been very hesitant to engage aircraft explicitly because of friendly fire. This was something that NATO ran into during the Gulf War that Russia and Ukraine previously never had to deal with. It's probably not unrealistic to assume that both sides have inflicted significant damage against themselves by accident too.

[RealMarek]

That CIA figure is propaganda and comes straight from the Ukrainians. If the Russians suffered 80,000 casualties they would not be methodically breaking through fortifications near Bakhmut and Adviivka; instead the war would be over already. The BBC did a detailed investigation in Russia and estimated (perversely, to their disappointment because the number was lower than expected) perhaps 5,000 dead, most during the opening of the conflict. Add to that another 2,000 from LPR and DPR allied forces and another 500 from the Wagner Group. The Ukrainians, on the other hand, according to a leaked document, have suffered over 190,000 casualties (killed and wounded), and the rate at which Ukrainians are being killed is increasing because they’re reduced to throwing masses of poorly trained and equipped men into the front.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

I am truly depressed by the amount of fools that have answered this question.

Clearly Russia is suffering massive losses (and its accepted as much), and has lost certain fronts of this war. At best, they are looking at a long and costly attritional fight, with very little achieved.

They will need to move the goalposts further to make any sort of success look honest. At this point, they have lost the entire Northern front, and have barely moved outside of Crimea and Donbass.. which were already under Russian control before the invasion. The whole idea of steamrolling through Ukraine (which even the West thought would happen) is clearly unrealistic, and even the idea of overthrowing the government... not likely going to happen now. So what are the new goals? Further minor annexations?

Please people educate yourselves.

You all make me feel like the Western world is a lost cause.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

The amount of people on here who prefer narrative over facts/research/evidence... provide the most perfect picture of why the West is decaying into an inevitable collapse.

[DryGermanGuy]

They will try till the last minute to achieve some sort of victory, by all means available. Currently they are recruiting in Russian prisons and cancelling military hardware sales to foreign countries.
It has been reported that the top brass is keeping Putin in the dark about the actual situation on the ground because they fear his wrath.

[Wade12345]

Then they are even dumber than I thought. Putin has had a stroke and can't even use his right hand or leg. He can barely even stand. If anyone in Russia had a brain they'd remove him from power ASAP given how irrational he's become.

[Sixgunsound]

Look at what they invested in worthless Afghanistan? It’s not in them to quit once they throw good money after bad. The egos of national leaders take over as long as they aren’t on the battlefield bleeding out or funding the war with their personal wealth. It’s easy to order someone else to suffer and spend someone else’s money to pay for it. As a former US service member whose political leaders do the exact same thing, I have seen this firsthand.

[MarkRet]

80,000 seems like too high of a number to me. Maybe 20,000. The Russians will just move the goalposts, like they've already done. I think Putin thought he could just roll into Ukraine in a few days and be hailed as a conquering hero. When that failed, he had his troops withdraw to solidify control of the eastern ethnic Russian areas, and then claim it was part of his plan all along. The Russians will NEVER give up the areas they have now.

[jshm2]

The CIA always talks shit, remember Saddam's "WMD's"?

It's got away with crying wolf too many times, and this time it got caught out. This attrition is sustained only by the Wests proxy war. Ukraine itself lost on the first day and it will be the New Iraq in the region as it will never repay the financial debt it will owe NATO.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Other than the fact that Russia was forced to remove all of its forces from Northern Ukraine?
Not to mention its made very little territorial gains outside of what it already controlled prior to the invasion (Donbass and Crimea). Perhaps, less than 10% to 20% of Ukraine is controlled by Russia.
On top of this, that is at the cost of many 1000s of the Russian military...
depletion of its resources, and a near collapse of its economy.

[bean2k21]

They're Russians. They'll never say the word 'defeat.'. Even if the entire population is starving and the U. S. is sending them potted meat in the mail, after their bellies are full, they'll talk about how we're trying to meddle in their affairs.

[OddBeMe]

I don't know. Its kinda weird how bad theyre doing. I dont know overall facts. Russians do take over Ukraine cities but it seems like the defending army is kicking their ass. Which is a phenomenon thats happened before…all the Afghan wars, Vietnam, etc…

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Quite a bit of a difference.
1. Russia hasn't successfully taken even the majority of major cities in Ukraine, and was forced to remove its forces out of Northern Ukraine completely.
2. The Afghan/Vietnam wars did not see a "major" military lose cities. Instead those wars saw trained host nation forces surrender cities. This is what we saw with the collapse of the ANDSF in 2021, and the collapse of the ARVN in 1975. Both of those militaries were of the nation that collapsed.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

^ Same thing applies to the Collapse of the Najibullah Government (Republic of Afghanistan) in 1992.

[Wade12345]

Russian Air Force cannot establish Air Dominance. It's foolish to invade another nation without air dominance your tanks and supply convoys will get shredded by the other nation's remaining air power.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

So basically you are attempting to compare
1. A National Military fighting against another National Military, and failing to subdue it, or even control the majority of the nation. In the process, suffering high attritional costs, and forced to remove its forces from certain fronts due to complete failure.
to
2. Civil Wars, between vying government (or Government vs Guerilla) forces, where the National Army collapses (ANDSF, ARVN, Republic of Afghanistan), to either a Rival National Force (North Vietnam/NVA), or Insurgent forces (Taliban/Mujhadeen). Largely due to a lack of outside support, or involvement, corruption, morale.. etc.
^ Specifically
1. The ARVN collapsed, 3 years after any USA military involvement, and largely due to a cutting of funds and support (Case Church Amendment, Congressional Budget). The USA had no interest or involvement in the war in 1975.
2. The Republic of Afghanistan collapsed in 1992, 3 years after the Soviet Military removed its involvement and support.
3. The Afghan Government collapsed in 2021, after 7 years of the USA (and allied) military mission being over since 2014. In this case, there was a lack of USA involvement, heavy corruption in the Afghan government/military, and a slow collapse of the Afghan forces from 2014-21 (Look at the Long War Journal, and how slowly the Afghan Forces were destroyed over those years without much USA involvement or support).

Quite a bit different from a Russia military attempting a coup in Ukraine, and suffering high attritional losses, and being forced to abandon certain regions (like the North).

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 You are correct.
This is precisely what the USA successfully did in Vietnam/Afghanistan etc.
The failure began once the USA involvement ended, and the Host Nation (South Vietnam, Afghanistan), took control of the military mission.

Russia never took control over the skies in Ukraine.

[OddBeMe]

@Wade12345 Agreed, that is a good reason.
@GutsNCascaBerserking Sure, its hard to compare any wars. But i was simply stating a defending force is more driven than invaders.

[OddBeMe]

@GutsNCascaBerserking You have a lot of weird interest in this. Kremlin payheck?

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@OddBeMe
In the case of Afghanistan, the forces that collapsed, were the defending forces.
The ANDSF, were made up of Afghans, and they were the ones that successfully defeated the Taliban in 2001. They were the ones that fought a Civil War with the Taliban from 1996-2001.
Ghani for example, was one of their leaders during that era (before even becoming President).
from 2014-2021, the Afghan Military suffered around 50,000+ KIA.

The ARVN, were the South Vietnamese, who had been fighting a Civil War with the North for decades before the collapse in 1975.
It was the ARVN that collapsed, surrendered cities, and suffered 10s of thousands of dead in that period of time.

the same thing applies to the Nabijullah Government in 1992, which was once again, an Afghan Government, supported by the Soviet Union.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@OddBeMe Yes, the Kremlin is paying me to make them look bad.

[OddBeMe]

@GutsNCascaBerserking They certainly dont need help with that. I just can't get through your absent minded posts

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@OddBeMe Please explain to me what makes my post absent minded?

[Anonymous]

No they are the distraction from the real war, the stealth war of the CCP like a game of Monopoly, one of the best plays is controlling the resources much like the means of production and well the water is drying up across the planet, transport and energy costs are sky-high so not they won't until they are told too

[Kichbazp_]

@Wade12345 No India will help Russia, India has a Big Military and India should send 2,00000 Army to Russia to help them !

[DryGermanGuy]

Stop talking nonsense. No Indian prime minister is sending his soldiers into the Ukrainian meat grinder!

[Kichbazp_]

@DryGermanGuy If they send then solders will get a New WAR experience which can be use Against China in case of War

[DryGermanGuy]

People without arms or legs won’t help you in that war against China. Your idea is pure fantasy.

[Kichbazp_]

@DryGermanGuy 😳😳😳

Trust me Ukraine has No Answer to India's Brahmos Missile... it will Wipe out Ukraine in 1 Hour

https://youtu.be/u7cJyrLfPA4

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Why would India have any interest in sending troops to aid Russia?
This is a silly idea.

[DryGermanGuy]

Trust me, where Russia failed to achieve victory in three days as their shills so confidently announced, India won’t be able to do better. But again, nothing of the sort will happen anyway.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@DryGermanGuy True, and Russia is a far more powerful military than India.

[Kichbazp_]

@DryGermanGuy Russian Army live in Peace all the time... they are lazy & cozy but in India situation is different... we have surrounded by 2 Nuclear capable Enemies, China & Pakistan and No day Pass without firing or bleeding, So Indian Army is more WAR prepared then RUSSIA

[Kichbazp_]

@DryGermanGuy **Than to Russian Army

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Russia is quite often considered the 2nd most powerful military on the planet. Clearly, this war has proven that they are marred by the same issues the Afghan Military was plagued with.. Corruption, Low Morale, Inexperienced units used as fodder.. etc
Be careful the ridiculous claims that you make.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Russia is India's Most Trust worthy friend in the world So we know more about Russian than to you, I am only saying Russian Army was not prepared for war Against Ukraine, Russian Borders are not as Sensitive as India-China-Pakistan So obviously Army of India, China & Pakistan is more WAR Ready than to Russia !

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Once again, if Russia is incapable of defeating the Ukranian military.
It is unlikely India will stand much of a chance.
Russia has some of the most elite military units on the planet
Spetsnaz, is often compared to the USA's Navy Seals or Delta Force in its level of training and capabilities.

On top of this, we both know that India is not going to be sending troops to Ukraine.
There is no discussion about this, and such an action would lose India most of its trading partners and influence.

Which if you didn't know, the USA is the largest trading partner of India.

[Wade12345]

@GutsNCascaBerserking INdia is no threat to Ukraine. If Russia can't beat them from right across the border, hw do you expect India to beat them from 5000 miles away? They haven't fought an offensive war in thousands of years. Why would they start now?

[Kichbazp_]

@Wade12345 then Pakistan or China Can do

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_
@Wade12345

Wow, seriously?
Pakistan will do it? China?
*facepalm*

[Wade12345]

Dude. You're a nut job. I'ts literally against both India and China's respective religions to fight an offensive war, which is why they never do it. All they do is play defense for thousands of years at a time.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@Wade12345 I agree, its not even a discussion India or China are currently having.
If anything, China has clearly shown attempts to remove itself from the conflict.

You have had a lot of idiots answer this question.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Yes Pakistan or Iran can fight a war against Ukraine ! Pakistan has a history of doing Stupid things So No wonder !

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Pakistan and Iran have a history of losing wars.
none the less, where has this been a discussion among those governments?
When have they shown any interests of being involved militarily?

[Kichbazp_]

@Wade12345 @GutsNCascaBerserking Why not then Russia use Hydrogen Bomb? 15-20 Hydrogen Bomb will Annihilate Ukraine

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Why would they do that, if other Nuclear powers won't do the same thing?
You are asking questions that suggest to me you are actually a child.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Seriously? Can any country dare to fight a Nuclear War Against Russia? Do you know how many Nukes Russia has?

Russia - 6,255 nuclear warheads.
United States of America - 5,550 nuclear warheads.
China - 350 nuclear warheads.
France - 290 nuclear warheads.
United Kingdom - 225 nuclear warheads.
Pakistan - 165 nuclear warheads.
India - 156 nuclear warheads.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ You are completely missing the point.
Why would Russia use Nuclear warheads in Ukraine
When you have nations like the USA, that have a stockpile that is nearly the same size.

You are dreaming.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Russia has S-400 & S-500
militarywatchmagazine.com/.../...945_79570508.jpeg

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Good for them
Once again, they won't be using these in Ukraine.
No one has used Nuclear Wars for War since World War 2.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking India Also have S-400

https://youtu.be/z3nWL2h3Ce4

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Yes! Once again
India has never used Nuclear Weapons in War.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking India has lots of People and Army So they are enough, No Need of Nukes

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Once again, you are missing a very important point.
India has stated no interest in sending troops to Ukraine.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Bcoz Indian PM is a Stupid 👩‍🔧

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ So why make arguments about the Indian military in Ukraine? We both know its not going to happen.
We also know India lacks the professionalism and capabilities.
You act as if Russia hasn't fought a war in decades.
There are Russian forces in the CAR, specifically Contractors in the form of the Wagner Group
Russian Forces that involved themselves in Syria
Russian Forces that defeated Georgia in 2008
Russian Forces that defeated the Chechen Rebels in a 10 year long conflict from late 90s to late 2000s.

They have lots of experience
and arguably more than India.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

That is just naming SOME of the conflicts the Russian military has been involved in over the past 20 years. This is why the Russian failures in Ukraine are so significant.

They are VERY similar to the quick collapse of the ANDSF in Afghanistan.
the Afghan military was "professional" but quickly collapsed after the USA removed its involvement and support.
the Afghan government went from controlling most of the country, to losing all of it within a few weeks.

Most of this due to corruption, low morale, and heavy dependence on USA involvement and support.

Russia has shown in Ukraine that it suffers from similar struggles
ITS FAR MORE powerful than Ukraine
but there is clearly a great deal of corruption, ineptness, and units that lack training

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Listen... 1. China can beat US in war any time 2. US army is legging behind in Technology... US don't have a Hypersonic Missile or Near it... where as Russia/China/India are more ahead of US

3. If India had fought a war against Ukraine in 2022 then by Now Ukraine has been Ripped in 2 Parts like Pakistan

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

1. China actually lacks the military experience.
The USA military would likely defeat it today.
China also relies heavily on stealing USA technology.
2. Ukraine hasn't even been ripped into "2 parts"
Russia forces have barely moved far outside of Crimea or the Donbass region, which was already controlled by Russian more than 5 years ago.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Please check...

https://youtu.be/_1X8D_5y4Xs

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ You are speaking about one military race.
It is like looking at the Cold War, and comparing the United States vs the Soviet Union in the Space Race in 1957.

This is one avenue of competition.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

So once again
No, China is the greatest competitor to the United States, and has clearly opened a new "Cold War"
However, the United States won the last Cold War, and can easily win this one.

The Soviet Union at times were defeating the USA in certain races (like the Space Race), just to lose them later.
There were things the USA lagged behind during portions of the Cold War, but ended up defeating the Soviets in.

You think you are making some great argument
But you clearly have very little knowledge on how these things work.
Especially a nation like China, that requires on stealing for its innovation.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking Don't you think Once Hypersonic Missile gets Deployed then The ALL scenario will Change over Night?

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ When did the USA or Soviet Union launch nukes at each other during the Cold War?

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking You are " Underestimating " Capability of China... China is India's Neighbor So we know how far Chinese can think & Reach

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking I am taking about Hypersonic Cruise Missile... No system can detect and intercept... when a Cruise Missile comes with speed of Mach 7- Mach-8... So killing probability is 100 %

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Clearly not well enough.
Because you assume China is going to launch missiles at the USA
You sound like a deadhead.

China has a debt crisis, far greater than the USA
it grew $2.5 Trillion in the last Q (compared to the USA $1.5 Trillion debt growth)
China has a debt that is much larger in GDP% than the USA
and it relies heavily on USA consumerism
just as the USA relies on China for many of its companies factories.

Grow up some
and learn how the world works

the Soviet Union and the USA, which had little to no economic ties
still didn't go as far as launching nukes...
or even meeting in a military confrontation
because MAD, was recognized as a reality
it was more about the political games

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ No you are just showing your ignorance of how competitions between nations like this happen.
This has all happened before.
Learn how these things work.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking You are Naïve... No One fire a Single Missile but in Next 25-30 years US will loose its Influence like Once Brittan lost it all Influence in 1940-1950

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ You seem quite naive, in assuming a loss of influence requires a hypersonic missile being launched.
That is my point
it is a competition between the USA and China
Winning doesn't require missiles or war.
USA may lose in the end
China may lose in the end
But it is clear those are the 2 most powerful nation on the planet, with the greatest reach, and both of them are competing for control.

Once again, my point is
Your assumption India, or China, or Pakistan, will invade Ukraine
is ridiculous, and naive.
Your assumption that China will launch missiles at the USA
is ridiculous, and naive

Learn how the world works.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking that is what CHINA Wants... reduce influence of US over Gulf countries, Prevent Gulf countries selling crude oil in US $$... it will bring down the demand of US $ and it will affect stability of US Currency

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

@kichbazp_ Once again, these Chinese "Wants"
have nothing to do with China, India, or Pakistan.. sending troops to Ukraine to aid the Russians.
You can't stay on topic with anything.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking See this Video Below on YouTube... Mr Putin Visited India in December 2021 just 1 Month Ago when Russia invaded Ukraine... Putin Only Visited to India So clearly He wants India to send its Troops there... Like Russia had helped India in 1971 when US & UK were Supporting Pakistan

https://youtu.be/tLcgGHXFJIE

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Once again, India has shown no interest in sending troops to Ukraine.
You admitted that.
Get over it.

[Kichbazp_]

@GutsNCascaBerserking @Wade12345 @DryGermanGuy Indian have some Most deadly weapons of the World also India bought weapons from Israel, France, America and Russia, So obviously Indian Arsenals have much better weapons then Russian have Alone ! Also Now India is buying Tu-160 Strategic Bomber from Russia

https://youtu.be/M5TYujSl2lU

[Dargil]

They haven't won. Expect a guerilla war for decades, just like the Irish against the Brits.

[JohnK123]

And the Irish won

[Jamesshinobi]

ha ha ha ha ha. the Ukrain has lost 1/2 of its territory and you think they are winnimg? ha ha ha ha.

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

Half? are you serious?
1. Russia was forced to remove its force from all of Northern Ukraine, after its inability to take Kharkiv.
2. The Donbass Region, and Crimea have already been under control by Russia (and its allies) for years.
3. The total amount of Ukranian territories captured by Russia to this point has been less than a 10% of so gain. (if that), and that as at the cost of many 1000s of men.

[Jamesshinobi]

i am Ukrain. all you said is TV lies.

[anylolone]

They will declare victory, somehow, even if it's just for the "de-nazification" of ukraine.

[Wise4myage]

No. Puken will go nuclear before he admits defeat.

[jimmy2]

Well they are attacking nuclear plants so after they kill off the towns like Chebornal then they claim victory

[Anonymous]

You believe the CIA?

🥴😂

[GutsNCascaBerserking]

The Russians themselves admit to over 5,000+ KIA.
That is easily an assumption of roughly 20,000+ overall casualties.
They are not known for being transparent with losses.

[FilmGuy93]

I doubt it.

[hafinjun]

And your point is?