Do Trumps government know how you pay for stuff?

[Syntosi]

Alright so I do not actually know how to start with this. Trump announced that he was interested in a mineral real with Ukraine as part of the peace negotiations in the war between Russia and Ukraine. Certainly odd that USA would be paid for that but whatever, a mineral deal is not necessarily even a bad business deal since it would involve American companies investing money to rebuild industry after the war.

Or it WOULD have been and was assumed as such by any rational person. That was NOT what Trump was meaning when he said "mineral deal". Instead, Trump wanted the right to 50% of all minerals extracted by Ukraine... period... That is stupid.

And to make this even more insane, they wanted this in return for the aid that USA had already given to Ukraine. I am sorry but that just does not make any sense.

So lets say you are Ukraine for a moment and have been given any number of aid from USA. In comes Donald Trump and proposes an offer for you. He wants 50% of all the minerals you will extract and in return he will give you the things he has already given you before AKA, NOTHING NEW.

So your options are as following; Pay Trump and get nothing or refuse to pay and also get nothing. Like what the hell? I am honestly baffled here, does anyone know what the hell is going on in the heads of these people? Are they just so rich that they dont even know how a transaction works?

[exitseven]

Trump is trying to recoup some of the 200 billion that the US spent in bankrolling their war with Russia.

[Syntosi]

First of all, they did not spend 200 billion in Ukraine and secondly, this is still stupid.

[exitseven]

@Syntosi How much did they spend? I found a source that said 174 billion as of April 2024 and i know Biden sent a pallet of cash before he left office. This is what we know of.

[Syntosi]

At a cursory glance, around 14.5 billion dollars in cash actually handed to Ukraine. The rest of that 174 billion dollars you keep bringing up is spent in USA to produce goods and services that is then handed to Ukraine. In other words, that money stayed inside USA and stimulated the economy.

[exitseven]

Anything that we sent whether it was cash or weapons was still paid for with taxpayer dollars. The US has dropped between 150-200 billion dollars on a war we have no stake in. Because the weapons were made in USA is a pretty silly argument. The cash was made in USA as well.

[Syntosi]

Most of the weapons were built like in the cold war and was rusting away in warehouses, notably costing the taxpayer money to regularly maintain or in the case of the ATACMS missiles they were in the process of being destroyed which also cost money. Ukraine was quite frankly doing USA a favor of taking that junk, but that is besides the point.

USA dropped 200~ billion dollars (minus the equipment that was already constructed etc..) on paying American companies to employ American workers to turn American resources into products.

I do not see you complaining about people having a higher wage and more jobs.

[DryGermanGuy]

Now it's even 200 billion dollars! These magic MAGA mathematics are getting wilder by the hour!

[Syntosi]

@DryGermanGuy Honestly, dont bother. These people does not know how math works and also has no concept of money in the first place. Just let it go, its a lost cause.

[exitseven]

There were some older weapons but also more current ones. Biden sent so much of our arms to Ukraine our own military is left without enough if we ever had to fight another country we would be in trouble.

[Syntosi]

What current ones did USA sent Ukraine. Ill wait.

[exitseven]

Tanks, missiles pretty much anything but nukes. There was one missile system that Biden sent that was very advanced and there was a red flag raised by several Republicans that it would rapidly escalate the war. maybe cause WW3.

[Syntosi]

That is not true. The Abrams sent to Ukraine was the old versions that is taken from surplus. They were not part of active duty and would have had to be completely rebuilt to be brought up to modern status. Same with the missiles like ATACMS.

[DryGermanGuy]

@Syntosi
Oh yeah, for these people in bizarroland it's pointless. I just don't want the kooks to rile up or dis-inform the regular readers here.

[Syntosi]

@DryGermanGuy Doing lords work then

[Snakeyes7]

Biden even sent cluster bombs which the use of was considered a war crime. But hey, you know what they say: my war crimes are good, your war crimes are bad.

[DryGermanGuy]

@Snakeyes7
For what it's worth, none of the involved countries are signers of the cluster ammunition ban. It feels also quite arbitrary, if getting killed by a regular fragmentation shell is considered morally superior to getting killed by cluster shells.

[Syntosi]

@Snakeyes7 As stated by @DryGermanGuy neither Russia, Ukraine nor USA considers clusterbombs as a war crime and Russia has used them in Ukraine since day 1 so I dont respect their rights to complain.

Also the reasons why some countries considers cluster munition as war crimes is pretty much that they have a significant chance to result in duds that in effect becomes akin to landmines. If your conflict features landmines such as *gestures broadly at the Ukraine war* then it is kind of a moot point.

[Snakeyes7]

@Syntosi @DryGermanGuy Fair enough. I heard that it was a war crime to use them because sometimes a part of the cluster ends up being a dud. It hits the ground and remains there for who knows how long. Someone might find it in the future long after the war ended and gets blown up if they got too close.

But people call it the Geneva suggestion for a reason. I don't think anyone cares about what is considered a war crime anymore.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[msc545]

This is a typical Trump offer - pay him and get nothing. OR don't pay him and get nothing and get nothing in the future (which you won't anyway). Can you see why other countries and businessmen love him?

[Syntosi]

It is such a bizarre move. If Trump just did a normal mineral rights agreement with Ukraine then that would have been seen as a win but I guess he just can't help himself from being... well, stupid I guess?

[Anonymous]

Trump is a greedy b*st*rd who is high on his election win, even as a criminal. He is going to push until he is stopped.

[Syntosi]

Yeah that sounds about right if I am honest.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

yet more desperate fabrications to TRY to undermine Trump performance

[Syntosi]

Oh? Which part of what I said is wrong?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

if you can cough up some real evidence such as bills, executive orders, or policies from the Trump administration that show any attempt to track how people pay for things I will buy it

[Syntosi]

I used an example in my original question though?

[beefcakebradybatson]

They don't care. They're broligarchal swindlers bent on squeezing the last nickel from the 99.999999999999999%!!!

[Agape93]

Nope. Most of my stuffs in cash.

[DryGermanGuy]

That's very German! :-)

[Agape93]

And very Paranoid lol government can't track your cash spending.

[Anonymous]

Ukraine should pay instead of being a leech

[Syntosi]

That is a terrible strategy if you want USA to succeed as a world power.

[Opinion Owner]

America's allies need America more than America needs them

terrible strategy or not, America is not gonna be a sucker for other countries to take advantage of

[Syntosi]

That is the attitude of a spoiled brat. No one said that America could not have benefited from Ukraine (even if I would like to point out that Ukraine winning is worth way more than 200 billion for USA from a purely geopolitical point of view) but this is not how you do it.

For example, USA could have said that they had the first right to invest in mining inside Ukraine which would imply that private corporations inside USA could build and operate profitable mining operations there which helps both USA and Ukraine. That is what people originally believed Trump was going to suggest when they heard "mineral rights".. because it is normal and not insane.

The deal that Trump actually gave however just distances Ukraine from USA and means that they will give less in return going forward, if anything at all. A failed offer that insults the other party only serves to undermine your own future profits, that is basic deal-making. What I am basically saying is that Trump sucks at this.

[Opinion Owner]

attitude of a spoilt brat? lol. we're not all cucks like you who enjoy funding lifestyles for gold-diggers who cheat on them. keep being upset America actually has a backbone to stand up against "allies"

[Syntosi]

Oh really? First of all Trump is asking Ukraine of a bigger debt than Germany got pressured into in their peace deal after WW1. It is a retarded request by any sense of the word.

Secondly, Ukraine is not going to give it to USA anyways and that was obvious. In other words, Trump just made himself look like a fool for literally no reason.

Thirdly:


Yes, he is behaving like a brat.

[Opinion Owner]

nope. Ukraine is "relying" on US money to "defend" itself against Russia. Trump can simply cut that funding off and Zelensky would be exposed for either his corruption or gross incompetence where he has no choice but to stop the war on his side.

once Ukraine stops their side, Trump can focus on getting Putin to stop his side

if you have a better solution to stopping the war, then let's hear it

[Syntosi]

That is not accurate. Ukraine is "relying" on "US money" to WIN the war against Russia. They require no further funding from USA nor the west to just maintain the current stalemate. Russia is simply not strong enough to defeat Ukraine in a conventional war at this point even if all Ukraine had left was shovels and molotovs, which is ignoring the fact that Ukraine is one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the entire world and is perfectly capable of building their own shit.

[Opinion Owner]

Russia has nukes to destroy Ukraine but their goal isn't to destroy Ukraine but to absorb it

Ukraine being largest weapons manufacturer shouldn't need US money or US involvement for that matter yet they continue to scam the US

[Syntosi]

I for one am very skeptical about the condition of Russias nuclear arsenal. Nukes are incredibly expensive to maintain and Russia has had big problems in up-keeping their normal military equipment, much less complicated and specialized equipment like nukes. If I was a gambling man then I would say that even if Putin gave the order to launch the nukes there would not be anything that followed.

But that is besides the point. Russia can't use nukes against Ukraine, not because they want to capture it but because that would mean that Russia loses regardless. Also, I am not even sure that a successful nuclear attack would even be enough to break Ukraine in the first place. Nukes are not nearly as useful of a military weapon as people think and works best as a nuclear deterrent than actual battlefield weapons.

So no. No nukes for Russia in this war.

And Ukraine has already demonstrated that they do not need US money or equipment to maintain the stalemate in the war... Since.. You know.. USA stopped their donations a while back and Russia did not get shit done.

[Opinion Owner]

whether or not Russia's nukes align with their goals or not, it is still a powerful weapon capable of wiping out millions of people

Trump's goal is to stop as many lives being lost as possible. this means both sides need to stop fighting. not just one side wins and the other side loses because everyone loses.

[Syntosi]

If Trumps goal is to stop as many lives being lost as possible then this demand of his was an abject failure. It is not going to stop the war. If Ukraine declines then there can't be any peace. If Ukraine agrees then Zelensky will lose the election and the pro-war candidate will come into power and instantly draft 500,000 more Ukrainians and expand the conflict while rejecting peace negotiations.

[Opinion Owner]

how would you stop the war then without losing lives?

Ukrainians have already been drafted into war since the invasion

[Syntosi]

Kill Putin maybe? Russia is the aggressor, the only one who can decide that no more dies today is Russia who can just pack up their stuff and go home any day they want.

Ukraine is not Russia nor is USA which means that we have to "convince" Russia to go home without killing any more. This is done by killing them at such a rate that their perceived reward for continuing to fight is less than the cost to themselves.

And yes, Ukraine has been drafting people into their army but they are a population of 33 million. They can easily put a few more million men and women into uniform and push them to the front if they truly wanted. During WW2 Germany conscripted around 22% of their population which if translated to Ukraine would be 7.2 million troops. Ukraine is probably around 1 million right now.

If you think that either side of this conflict is anywhere near going all-out yet then you are fairly uninformed I feel like.

[Opinion Owner]

assassinating Putin would only escalate the war. assassinations have been the cause of many wars and nearly created one in US had Trump been assassinated

it doesn't matter who is and isn't the aggressor. the war needs to stop

"convincing" Russia involves getting all leaders Trump, Putin and Zelensky together to negotiate a deal, something Biden should've tried to do years earlier

Ukraine shouldn't even be drafting anyone in the first place but since it's men who are mostly being drafted and dying, nobody gives a shit about stopping the war except for Trump

of course both sides aren't going all-out because there's no reason Zelensky should be receiving all that money from the US. with the amount given, he should've defeated Russia and ended the war but he hasn't and is purposely dragging out to drain US of its money

[Syntosi]

You are missing the point. Only a change in the opinion of Putin (which is not going to happen) or a change in Russian leadership even has a chance to end the war in Ukraine on short notice. If your demand is to do it in a day then only an assassination even has a chance to work irrespective of how likely it is.

You can not convince Putin to stop. You can not convince Zelensky to give up resisting. Negotiations are a waste of everyones time. Their differences are simply irreconcilable.

And no, it matters very much who is the aggressor. If you convince Putin to stop the war then the war stops. If you convince Zelensky to stop resisting then the war continues regardless.

As for if Ukraine should be allowed to draft? Of course they can. They are a sovereign nation. It is well within their rights to draft their own citizens into the army.

And no, its stupid to assume that Zelensky is purposefully dragging out the war to drain USA of money and if you want to end the war sooner rather than later then you would need to draft more soldiers, arm them, train them and then overwhelm the opposition. Currently Ukraine believes that this war will continue for many more years so they are planning their strategy accordingly. Furthermore, they do not want to destroy their own demographics and economy in the war so that they can recover afterwards which limits who they can and can't draft.

Honestly, it sounds like you have very little understanding of what is going on.

[seeyounexttuesday]

They owe us.

[Syntosi]

No they dont, and even if they did they would not pay you back because you "asked nicely" like this. If I wanted to make sure that I would never see that money again then this would have been a perfect negotiation strategy.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Yes, they do. They never should have gotten a dime. But we had a president who liked enriching his pockets over the good of the country.

[Syntosi]

Good that you confirm that you have no idea how geopolitics works. USA did not support Ukraine because they were feeling charitable that day, they did it through entirely "American first" interests. You are just too dumb to see it.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Bahahahaha. Maybe to launder money back to the democrats, certainly not for the good of Americans.

[Syntosi]

As I said: Good that you confirm that you have no idea how geopolitics works. USA did not support Ukraine because they were feeling charitable that day, they did it through entirely "American first" interests. You are just too dumb to see it.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Well Biden's pockets first.

[Syntosi]

And how would Biden benefit from destroying the enemies of USA?

[seeyounexttuesday]

Biden was the main recipient of the money laundering scheme.

[Syntosi]

Bullshit

[seeyounexttuesday]

uh huh. Zelensky got on video and mentioned he can't account for 100 billion in US aid.

[Syntosi]

1: That is not true and 2: Literally nobody cares.

You are as usual completely missing the point of why US aid exist and what it does.