Why didn't England and France declare war on Russia as well as Germany on September 3rd, 1939?

[Dongie]

Russia came in from Polands east and occupied it, so what was the reasoning to ignore Stalin?

Updates

1 y

Why didn't Stalin declare war on them when they war was declared on Germany seeing as how they had a non aggression pact together? Did Stalin believe he could occupy half of Poland while Germany was at war for taking the other half?

[Syntosi]

Geopolitics obviously. The Allies were convinced that they required Stalin to function as a 2nd front for the Germans so that they could win WW2 because that is how they won WW1. As a result they were completely fine with selling off the entire eastern side of Europe to maintain the USSR as a military ally and defeat Hitler. Dealing with the USSR had to wait until after the war, which they did and the karma of the USSR going against the Allies and invading Poland came back to bite the Soviet Union in its ass.

[Dongie]

Good, I agree with a bit of that. Stalin made out like a bandit, tho. He got all of Eastern Europe to Berlin.

Do you believe that WWII wouldn't have occurred and Hitler would have died in obscurity with the NAZI never coming about if not for the Versaille Treaty?

[Syntosi]

The Versaille treaty certainly did accelerate WW2 but it would have happened regardless. If not for the actions of a madman then for the actions of a nationalist, or a capitalist, or anyone else that sought power in Europe. Perhaps WW2 was perfectly timed in hindsight since we barely managed to squeak by without having nukes flying around all over the place and the end result is a much more stable Europe which probably won't spark a WW3.

[Dongie]

Hitler? Der nazi?

[Dongie]

True that as for timing.
Back track to the assassination by the Bosnian taking the archduke Ferdinand. World War escaped.

[Syntosi]

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact between Hitler and Stalin included a secret provision on how they would divide up eastern Europe between themselves (most notably Poland). Neither side had any illusions that this pact would last and they were both very much aware that the other one intended to attack the other at some point in the future. The pact was simply a stalling mechanic where Germany wanted to focus on the west where as Stalin was in full-blown panic because his army was not ready. Had Hitler waited a few more years to invade the USSR then Stalin would have attacked first, Hitler was simply faster.

As for WW1, that one was inevitable as well. Europe is almost perfectly designed to spark large conflicts between major factions, especially with the militant and hostile cultures at the time. The only thing that has successfully subdued future conflicts is the EU which has tied their mutual success to closely together to make war an economical solution.

[Dongie]

Yeah, those European countries liked to screw each other. Heh, went on for a thousand years.

[OneViewpoint]

Yeah, the treaty of Versaille was a huge part of it. It was vindictive and punitive to a fault. Really stupid. It left Germany in a position where they had nothing to lose. A situation that was ripe for an Authoritarian leader to swoop in and tell them what they wanted to hear. The German people did not reject the Nazi Party because they claimed to have answers that everyone desperately wanted to be true.

Hence at the end of WWII the victors helped rebuild Germany, Japan, and Italy and included them in the larger economy so they wouldn't have a reason to fall into the same trap again. It worked much better.

[Dongie]

Yeah, they learned a lesson. I believe President Wilson tried to talk the French down a bit, but they wanted Germany to suffer.

[Syntosi]

@OneViewpoint Even without the treaty of Versaille there would still have been a world war soon enough. The geopolitical situation in Europe at the time demanded it just like they did the first one and all the conflicts that came before. Only the creation of the EU made a significant enough difference to alter the geopolitical situation.

[AviatorTom]

The goal was to defeat Germany, and the USSR (Stalin) was helping to doing that. The USSR was an ally, though not necessarily a desirable one. The west did not want the spread of Communism.

[chrissykerdock]

england was bombed often by germany so war was eventually my guess is they didn't want to fight them russia had this huge army don't know if they had the latest toys like a nucleur bomb yet

[Cubus]

England and France believed the war would avoid them. But like Churchill said: "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war"

[Dongie]

Do you figure they were afraid of the Soviet Union?

[Cubus]

They were mates. Both during World War I and World War II,

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Till 22 Jun 1941 USSR WAS ALLIED WITH NAZY GERMANY!!!

[Dongie]

@Alexandrubaschet08

Yes, they had a non aggression pact.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Not just, USSR was providing for Germany oil, gass and other supplys for theyr west campain. This supply stay active till 21 June 1941 with 4h before the USSR invasion started

[Anonymous]

Very good question.
We in the Eastern bloc want to know the same thing.
My country declared war on the USSR and later the UK declared war on me as well, even though we did not declare war back.
The USSR was allied with Nazi Germany through the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact.
The only answer we have from Eastern Europe is that the UK, France, USSR/Russia, USA are all ordinary traitors without honor or scruples.

[Dongie]

USA, how so?

[Opinion Owner]

The USA did not want to land in the Balkans and thus cut off the Soviets' path to protect the victim countries in the east. The USA together with the UK and the USSR met at Yalta without inviting the victim countries, discussing their territorial integrity and the payment of war damages only between the 3 nations.
This is the same as the Munich Pact of 1938, in which Czechoslovakia was cut up against its will.
Later, after the elections in Eastern Europe were rigged in favor of the communists, the USA did not intervene in any way to protect these nations, as it had committed to for the western ones.
The UK and the USA abandoned us to the clutches of the devil USSR/Russia!!!

[Dongie]

Oh yes, I agree. Those countries were fed to the communist beast. I completely agree. It would have more than likely taken war with Stalin but it should have been in my opinion. Patton was ready to keep rolling. I believe they killed him to avoid war. They disliked him anyway.

[Opinion Owner]

MacArthur he was an anti-communist, demanding the nuclear bomb on China in the Korean War. He should have been listened to, and Beijing would have been reduced to ashes.
Churchill could have been a truly honorable fighter if he had implemented the "unthinkable" operation.

[Dongie]

They could have avoided the Cold War with one bomb.

[Opinion Owner]

no one, but Russia should had been treated like Nazy Germany

[Dongie]

My thoughts as well, but maybe it turned out better for the world, who knows.

[Opinion Owner]

it didn't Eastern block suffer the hell of them

[Dongie]

I know you all did.

[Opinion Owner]

We face war with Communism and NAZY and afther suffer for 45 yares under communism. East Europe is the only one entitle to talk about the justice of WW2.

[Dongie]

I don't much believe in entitlements. It would have been worse had Hitler won. It took huge sacrifices of blood and more to defeat that monster, and I believe the freedom salvaged gives anyone the right to speak of this atrocity. Maybe avoid repeating it.

[Opinion Owner]

I will rader go wit Hitler then Stalin, at last Hitler modernizate Germany and make it rich, not like USSR who whas pure like never before and kill even more people. NAZY kill 70 milions people, COMMUNISM +400 milions, the communism number is still growing till today.

[Dongie]

Yep!

[DrPepper12]

Because the Molotov-Ribbontropf pact was secret.

[Dongie]

It was, wasn't it. But they knew it was a joint effort by the two.

[Dongie]

I couldn't really recollect, and that is an issue.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Even if the pact was secret all Europe know they are allied because Hitler invade at 1 April 1939 Poland and Stalin at 17 April 1939.
Later one Germany is taking Netherland, Belgium, Denmark, Norway.
In the same time USSR was invading Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania!!!
And all thous country pointed from 1917 that Russia is becoming a bloody monster like never before.
Every body know, it was a surprise to finde out that they work so good togeder to sign papers. But theyr actions show that USSR is allied with Germany.

[Jamie05rhs]

Because Poland wasn't the issue. Nazi Germany was the issue.

[Dongie]

Yes, but still. That's not a reason to ignore their partner in invasion.

[Jamie05rhs]

Sometimes you have to form alliances strategically.

[NathanDavis]

because they were allies...

[Dongie]

I don't think Stalin had ANY allies. He didn't trust anybody until Hitler and that he paid for.

[NathanDavis]

yet, he joined the Allies... and they all fought Hitler, and others

[Dongie]

Look how that ended up. Patton wanted to roll on into Moscow. I don't think Churchill wanted to stop without Stalin in the bag either.

[NathanDavis]

fortunate sons...

[Dongie]

They risked their lives in battle, both. Born rich but didn't really act like it.

[NathanDavis]

those who really risked it... lost it

generals always go there for the ride

[Dongie]

Patton walked no-mans land alongside McArthur and Churchill was said to be fearless.

[NathanDavis]

exactly... took pictures then said what they said

that's war propaganda

[Dongie]

Do you know what no-mans land is?

[NathanDavis]

yes... the Dallas Cowboys headquarters

[Dongie]

It was the field that divided the German trench from the French trench during WWI.

[Surely]

Kind of like now. With Ukraine. Let someone else do it!

[TwoToTooTutu2]

They signed an agreement to protect Poland against German agression in particular.

[Dongie]

True.

[Anonymous]

At that time, Russia was not independent country, it was a part of USSR.

Nazi Germany was the enemy of UK and France... they expected to convert Stalin into their ally.

[masterSir]

they were more worried about NAZIS

[Anonymous]

Cause war is bad

[Dongie]

Nope!