Who will win the Hamas-Israel war?

[Anonymous]

After France, the UK has announced that it will recognize Palestine in September. This is part of a growing wave of international support. Since October 7, 2023, nine countries including Ireland, Spain, Slovenia, Armenia, and Mexico have officially recognized Palestine. As of now, 149 countries around the world recognize Palestinian State.

Two years into the war, Israel has not been able to rescue the hostages or eliminate Hamas despite extensive military operations. Instead, it is facing growing international backlash, accusations of war crimes, and increasing diplomatic isolation. Meanwhile, reports suggest that Israeli citizens are facing hostility while traveling abroad.

Some observers believe that this may have been one of Hamas’s original goals: to draw global attention to Gaza, to isolate Israel diplomatically, and to accelerate international recognition of a Palestinian state.

Whether this can be considered a victory for Hamas is open to debate. But what is clear is that Israel, both politically and morally, is in a much worse position today than it was before October 7.

Massive protests for Palestine

[Syntosi]

I mean, this is textbook terrorism tactics. As in, there are manuals and they explicitly describes this happening and why it is a goal for terrorists.

The fact that Israel fell face first into it either means they can't read or that they let it happen anyways because it plays into other motivations that they might have (such as benefiting from rally around the flag effect).

Point is that Hamas wanted to provoke Israel into assaulting Gaza which would in turn undermine Israel. Their plan worked flawlessly as far as you can consider the pain, suffering and deaths of people to be part of the process for your victory.

[Asker]

Hamas resisted well, and I still don’t understand how they haven’t been defeated. On the contrary, since October 7, Israel hasn’t gained anything, but Palestine has achieved some things.

[Syntosi]

Again, its in the manual. Attacking Hamas like this does not result in you destroying them. In fact, it becomes a good recruitment tool and advertisement for financial support. Hamas is fundraising and building up their organization based on how badly Israel is bombing them in Gaza. Its literally counterproductive.

Countries have obviously spent a lot of time and money to research how to suppress insurgencies and we have the entire history of humanity to serve as examples. We know what to do and what not to do when fighting terrorists and Israel is doing everything in their power to make the situation spiral out of control. The question is simply what has motivated them to defeating themselves like this.

[Asker]

Everything will change when Netanyahu is gone in 2026.

[Syntosi]

I think this is a far bigger problem than a single man. Also, the damage to Israel is already done. They will never be in the same privileged position as they used to enjoy and they will live under the stigma of having committed a genocide within living memory.

[Asker]

I agree. In that sense, Hamas has achieved what it wanted. Israel should have acted more strategically.
Hamas knew it couldn’t win. I knew that too because it’s obvious. An organization of about 20,000 people on its own cannot stand against the Israeli army backed by the US. Hamas also expected other Arab countries to join the fight alongside them, but the Arab countries did not join Hamas in the war. That is why Hamas will probably lose.
Still, they have gained some important things as a result. And Israel will never be the same as it was before October 7th. Even European countries now seem to be less supportive of Israel. Most people around the world now hate Israel. But Israel brought this on itself. And it continues to make the same mistakes.

[Avicenna]

As usual, Syntosi doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Hamas expected Israel’s other enemies to join in the fight. That didn’t happen, and in fact the other enemies have taken severe hits.

Israel hasn’t “won” due to the relative restraint it has showed. And the leftists and Islamists already hated it before 10/7.

[Syntosi]

@Avicenna No they did not expect Israels other enemies to join in the fight. They probably thought it was great if they did, but that was not required.

And I also find it hilarious that you consider this to be Israel demonstrating "restraint". I mean seriously, at this point why are you even claiming that? The charade of Isreal acting with restraint has obviously not worked considering the backlash it has received internationally.

If we were to take you at your word, which is something I would personally never recommend anyone do for public health reasons, then Israel is limiting themselves which has supposedly prevented them from winning against Hamas while at the same time gone too far and suffered the repercussions. You have to be pretty stupid to strike the "happy middle ground" where you get none of the benefit but pay all of the consequences but here we are.

[Pterodon]

I’d like Israel to win unconditionally but with Hamas being a proxy of Iran and Iran having no more money thanks to Trump I think a ceasefire will happen at the begging of Iran and Hamas. Israel has complete and total military superiority over both Iran and Hamas despite world condemnation except from the USA. They don’t have to stop till an unconditional surrender. Israel is not after Palestine or the Palestinians. They are only after Hamas that hides behind its civilians that voted for them to be their government

[Asker]

Israel is bombing and starving the Palestinian people in an attempt to weaken Hamas, but it also seems to be taking revenge on them. Because of this, it is being condemned by much of the international community. Netanyahu has failed to handle the situation effectively. I believe that once Netanyahu is out of office in 2026, things will start to improve.

[Pterodon]

The Palestinians did vote for and continue to support Hamas

[Asker]

Everyone can make mistakes. No one deserves to be killed just because of their beliefs. Also, the people of Israel support Netanyahu. In my opinion, there isn’t much difference between Hamas and Netanyahu’s government. Both are killing civilians, including babies. If you are against the killing of babies and civilians in war, then you should blame Netanyahu’s government just as much as you blame Hamas. Likewise, you should blame Hamas just as much as you blame Netanyahu’s government. Otherwise, you’re not being objective.

[Pterodon]

Yeah they don’t need to be killed but they choose to because of their loyalty to Hamas. So fuck em

[purplepoppy]

Hamas could have prevented this by not attacking that festival everyone's conveniently forgot about. They could stop the famine at anytime by surrendering. I doubt the leaders bellies are empty. Hamas is bent on victory at any price and that leaves no room to negotiate with them.

This stopped being an Israel Hamas war years ago, it's a Jewish Muslim war with global supporters feeding into it, there's too many people stirring the pot and not enough building bridges. It'll never end.

[Asker]

Hamas refuses to give up no matter the cost. Even if it means defeat, it still won’t surrender. I don’t believe this is a religious war because most Muslim leaders do not support Hamas. And most Muslim populations around the world are either unaware of this or don’t care. This is simply a Hamas-Israel war.

[NaultD]

The fundamental difference of punching up vs down.

With respect to united state of America history of revolution against the hierarchy king we have been on the wrong side of history supporting israel.

In the same way it was fucked up USA had similar aspirations dealing with indigenous people. Why is it any different modern day but in gaza?

[Avicenna]

You’ve misrepresented a few things, including that U. K. PM Starmer said Hamas needed to disarm and give up power. That matters because Israel doesn’t “win” if Hamas stays in power and/or still keeps its weapons.

[contentious]

Neither France the UK, Ireland, Spain, Slovenia, Armenia, or Mexico control Israeli territory. So ultimately that means nothing.

[exitseven]

I still like Israel in this war.

[Asker]

I am neutral, because both sides are doing terrible things. I don’t feel sorry for Hamas or Israeli soldiers, but I do feel sorry for Palestinian civilians and Israeli hostages.

[Dargil]

Israel will prevail.

[Asker]

But when? It’s been two years and there’s still nothing significant (except that Israel is now being labeled as a ‘genocidal state’ by the international community). I think Netanyahu has failed in this. In fact, most of the Israeli people hate him. Maybe when he leaves in 2026 and smarter leaders take over, then Israel might actually start winning.

[kavakava]

Israel will win, because there is no other option.

[Asker]

Maybe when Netanyahu leaves in 2026.

[OneViewpoint]

No one.