Why is Trump so angry about Allies refusing to support Iran war when he didn't consult with them, but know says he doesn't need them?

[yulbsari]

[Anonymous]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe NATO is a defensive alliance and if a country starts a war, they can't invoke Article 5.
Since the USA started the War in Iran they can’t invoke Article 5.

This also means other NATO countries aren’t required to help the USA.

[Effably]

You are technically correct. The only time NATO has had to support anyone so far was when USA invaded Afghanistan following 9/11.

It was only creatively seen as an attack as terrorism, especially after being eliminated, can not really be seen as a threat against all. Even so most of us agreed it was a good enough cause.

This time it is a hard sell. Alienate your allies for a year. Do everything you can to take advantage of and put them down. Declare an illegal war-not-war not even backed by your own country and ask your former allies now maybe-allies to come save you from the pretty tame and civil by comparison pushback? It is a rather odd view.

At the absolute least for any country to help, USA needs to internally agree on what is going on. It is not for any other country to say that an internally deemed illegal strategic-preemptive-attack and not-war is a defensive war.

[Opinion Owner]

@Effably I believe if Iran attacked the USA first that means NATO would have been required to help out the USA then.
That is not what happened though. Iran didn’t start the war. The USA did so NATO countries don’t have to help the USA in Iran.

[Effably]

Yep. It also isn't legally a war and technically an illegal act of aggression. Does not help.

[Opinion Owner]

@Effably I think NATO was created to help ally countries who are under attack.
The USA is not under attack. They aren’t the country who is having missles targeting them.
Iran is the country that is under attack.

[Opinion Owner]

@Effably I am a bit confused. How is it not a war?
According to Google the definition of war is
War is a state of organized, armed conflict between nations, states, or distinct groups, characterized by extreme violence, aggression, and the use of force to achieve political, economic, or ideological objectives.

What is happening between the USA/Isarel and Iran definitely seems to me to fall under the definition of war.

[Opinion Owner]

Wanting a regime change is a political objective. The USA/Israel has said they want to end or change the Iranian regime.

According to Google the definition of war is
War is a state of organized, armed conflict between nations, states, or distinct groups, characterized by extreme violence, aggression, and the use of force to achieve political, economic, or ideological objectives

[Effably]

I was poking some fun at it. But the basic is that the US President, Donald Trump, can not legally declare a war. Doing so would be criminal. Only Congress can do that.

Congress has not done that. So to avoid labeling the fraud and convicted felon a criminal again US government is spinning it as a tactical isolated operation. Not a war. Which would allow Trump to issue the order. All is well, sort of.

Of course the act is actually a war. And of course he broke USA's law. Which is why it is an illegal war. Which is why no ally of USA, even if they wanted to, can help. Because legally it is a military operation at most. If they help, which they can not in an offensive war under article 5 anyway, it is a war in which case it becomes illegal. There is no way for any ally to help because the act of helping confirms it as a war and makes it illegal and it being illegal makes the help unlawful.

Does that make sense?

[Opinion Owner]

@Effably Yes, I understand what article 5 is about and what Donald Trump did was not approved by congress. Donald Trump is probably aware what he did is illegal he will just make excuses or try to shift the blame.
He tried to claim that Iran has tomahawks and they were the ones who blew up the school that killed over 100 girls.
The USA is the only country that manufactures tomahawks. The USA would never give weapons to Iran.

I think Trump was most likely aware that Iran wasn’t responsible for the school missle attack that killed over 100 girls. I think he was just trying to shift the blame to try and make the US army look less bad.

[Pohjolan]

Well technically Iran hit Israel first but Israel is not a NATO member so...

[Abbycado]

"You need to understand that if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you," - Donald J Trump

Guess they are reciprocating.

[yulbsari]

Scary that this moronic, narcissistic ass wipe is POTUS! I don't think he gives a shit about anyone but himself and his rich, pedophile, misogynist, racist, miscreant friends!

[Abbycado]

He certainly does not care about anyone. I doubt he cares about his own family much.

[Abbycado]

Ty for mho!

[OneViewpoint]

This is human relations for kindergarteners. Insult all your friends. Ruin them all economically. Unilaterally start a war that damages everyone.

... Then come whining to all your ex friends you've insulted and damaged financially and demand they help you in the war you started because you're stuck in a trap you created.

Bwahahahahahahahahha! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

MAGA has betrayed their country and elected a mentally ill moron to turn the USA into a 3rd world economy isolated from the rest of the world. tRump is remaking the USA in his own image. Failed economics and utter contempt from every other country on the planet.

[Pohjolan]

Ego. Guy even refused aid offered before because the war was already won.

Now he is suprised that no means no.

[Jeff51]

Looks like we don't need them. Trump should had reached out 1st then maybe he would have them to help. Looks like its only missiles a d no troops.

[yulbsari]

So, why did he even bother to ask, and why is he so upset that they didn't jump to attention when he did ask? Makes no sense...

[Jeff51]

Politicians in general make no sense. I don't think he cares anyway on what they think.

[Pohjolan]

Some admirals might have liked the mine sweepers and mine hunters offered but Donnie understands naval warfare better.