Why dont BJJ/judo/jujitsu guys accept that if a guy who boxes can tag you at all its game over?

[Just_Ken]

Now I trained Judo & boxing growing up & some Sambo. I've a few buddies that do judo, jujitsu and BJJ. They are grappling purists. We did a few sparing experiments in the dojo a few years ago. I was wearing boxing gloves and they were demonstrating how they could take me down, throw or submit me which they did but every time before they did I was able to pepper them with shots they couldn't block or defend, i was too fast. Now it was only light sparing and they each declared victory because they were able to take me down not accepting that if I actually hit them without gloves and real heavy shots theyd not be able to take me down at all. A few months ago my BJJ buddy got his eyesocket shattered by a drunk guy he got into a scrap with at a bar, he tried the jujitsu stuff to get him down but the guy caught him with a heavy shot to the face and it was game over.

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5 d

https://youtu.be/r84fveVbVss?is=ZRoFAyGADLyH9Fzc

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3 h

Tried it again last night at the gym. BJJ guys getting caught real easy with heavy shots

[Phunk_Fenomenon]

they really bought into the hype that "grappling always beats striking" I knew this was horse shit since day one as that video that Renzo Gracie posted on YouTube over a decade ago with him beating all those fighters in a row pretty much reveals it.

1. those fighters he fought looked like they were past their prime.

2. the floor was padded up, which is the main thing that gives BJJ its advantage.

3. there were rules in the dojo he was in that prohibits certain techniques that can do a number on BJJ.

and I think I can keep on going

[Just_Ken]

I do agree. When I was still doing a lot of judo we spared BJJ guys but it always had to be by their rules. I know some traditional Jujitsu guys say the same.

The Gracies basically did what a lot of martial arts companies do, they set up fights and tournaments they know they will win against other marrial artists to promote their dojo. Asia is notorious for usually with kung fu or taekondo vs each other against karate or muay Thai.
I did Judo like I said, I see no real difference between Gracie Jujitsu and Judo, basically Gracie Jujitsu is just the ground techniques of Judo and Traditional Jujitsu.

[Phunk_Fenomenon]

its been said that BJJ originated from Judo instead of Jujutsu.

the reason why is not called Brazilian Judo is supposedly because when Mitsuyo Maeda introduced Judo in Brazil it was still constantly overlapping with traditional Jujutsu.

whenever I hear UFC and Tapout fans claiming that BJJ itself is the best martial arts ever I always them...

"let me know when you see a BJJ fighter win in a real street fight"

but what really makes me laugh is when they say Bruce Lee would not last a second in a round against modern day MMA fighters, even in his prime because supposedly martial arts has evolved a lot since his days.

[Just_Ken]

Judo and jujitsu back then had little separation. It was at the time being spread throughout the world and influencing other martial arts like sambo.

[Phunk_Fenomenon]

exactly, all BJJ did was capitalize ground fighting with the idea that 90% of the fights end on the ground which I dont think is true. you can't still knock the fuck out of your opponent without actually bringing them to the ground itself.

[Just_Ken]

Most fights I've ever seen or been involved with ended with at least one person on thd ground and if was rarely me.

[Phunk_Fenomenon]

oh I met to say can*

my damn autocorrector likes to betray me every now and then

[OneViewpoint]

It may be game over but it's far from guaranteed. Punches can be slipped or blocked. Punchers often don't land a clean blow or miss completely. But your point about a demonstration where the grappler can go full steam while the puncher has to pull his shots because of the risk of injury is not reality. That's why no MMA fighters are only boxers or grapplers or kickers. Mike Tyson in his speedy prime would have destroyed a lot of MMA fighters. Put lighters gloves on him and he would have killed people. Boxing gloves 12-16 oz. MMA gloves 4 oz. Ouch!

[Just_Ken]

Just for the record I was landing clean most of the time. They'd no head movement. I could pick my punches as they tried to take me down.
Your right about the MMA and the gloves. Even myself if I got into a fight with a giy I know can box no matter if im better than him im going to use judo on him.

[AI Opinion]

Striker vs grappler ego wars never end 😅

Your experience is super common. Pure grapplers often mentally “score” only the takedown or submission, while pure strikers mentally “score” the clean shot that would’ve slept someone bare-knuckle. In a real fight, a clean punch can absolutely be game over, but so can a clean takedown on concrete.

The truth from what I’ve seen training is this: whoever lands first with intent and awareness of distance usually wins. A good boxer who understands takedown defense is terrifying. A good BJJ/Judo guy who has trained against strikes is also terrifying. Style purism is the real loser here, not striking or grappling 🥊🤼‍♂️

[Just_Ken]

@SeekerOfTruth007

[molonski2]

Mind you a combination of all is pretty useful.

But seriously a street fight , bar fight , sharp edges , concrete floors , rarely one on one , you need to be strategic , quick and hit as hard as you can , defense , attack.. all that.

So , you'd be a good bar fighter Ken.

[NathanDavis]

this is mostly about the person... rather than the skill

a puncher could have a weak punch and would not be enough... nor fast enough, then he would be toasted against an experienced grappler... also, there's a lot of guys out there who can't throw a punch but they can take a few very well, if you add arachnid skills to that... you will be wrapped for dinner as well, sort of speak... lol

[Billlewis]

I understand your point, but I think it also gets emphasized too much sometimes. For example, in 1985, there was a now infamous boxing match between Marvin Hagler and Sugar Ray Leonard. Hagler, a power puncher, beat the living crap out of Leonard, but the judges scored it as a win for Sugar Ray, simply because he connected on a bunch of light, soft rabbit punches. I promised myself never to watch a boxing match again, and I haven't.

[David318578]

Probably because a BJJ is not going to just stand there and trade punches?

The boxer has absolutely no way to force the BJJ into a boxing match. A BJJ is going to take the boxer down to the ground and then what is the boxer going to do?

[Just_Ken]

Like I said we spared, the fact that it was so easy to tag the meant that in real life theyd be knocked out b4 the takedown. Even my BJJ black belt buddy got his eye socket shattered from a single punch

[David318578]

Yeah mma kind of proved what you said is BS. Ever single mma fighter has a ground game. Pure boxers would get destroyed.

[Just_Ken]

Every single MMA fighter has a striking game to not just a ground game anymore. BJJ is there but doesn't dominate the way it did at the start.

[David318578]

Of course they do. But a bjj will absolutely dominate someone who has no ground game. If both have a ground game then it can end up who is the better striker. But your premise was a boxer, which is the absolute worst in a real world fight, as far as trained fighters go. They have absolutely no ground game at all, and no ground defense at all. The reason that absolutely every mma fighter has BJJ training is because they are screwed without it.

[Just_Ken]

BJJ guy has no stand up game. And often against a trained boxer they can get dropped before the take down. The reason every MMA fighter has striking is because they are screwed without it.

[David318578]

In UFC 1 and 2 every fighter had striking and kicking. Every single martial art was invited including a boxer, there was no weight classes and they all got destroyed by a much smaller BJJ.

A boxer has absolutely no take down defense, mma fighters are all trained in BJJ so know how to take someone down, and also defend against being taken down. A Boxer has no answer to a ground game, a boxer has no answer to kicks, boxing is a fighting style that only works against untrained people or other Boxers.

[Just_Ken]

UFC 1&2 were hand picked fighters for Royce Gracie. Most had never stepped into a ring with a grappler or had grappling experience.
You notice there were no serious Judoka there.
Boxer Goiti Yamauchi very famously knocked out a Gracie with an uppercut.
Boxer Takanori Gomi also knocked out a Gracie.
Both Japanese, but then the Japanese have a history of beating Gracies. We all remember the Gracie hunter Kazushi Sakuraba

[David318578]

Goiti Yamauchi is a MMA fighter trained in BJJ, Muay Thai, kickboxing and Boxing

Takanori Gomi is a Shooto trained MMA fighter. Shooto is a hybrid of
Shoot wrestling, Catch wrestling, Boxing, Kickboxing, Full contact karate, Muay Thai, Sambo, Judo

So when I say a Boxer has no ground game defense you come back with 2 fighters trained in ground fighting?

Also Ken Shamrock was a ground fighter in UFC1

When it comes to pure boxing vs pure BJJ.. the BJJ will drop the boxer to the ground and submit him 9 times out of 10. Pure boxing is way to limited in the training and rules to complete with other martial arts

[exitseven]

Somebody who is very strong can just grab hold of one of these Kung fu guys and its game over.

[Just_Ken]

Judo/jujitsu guys tend to be very strong

[exitseven]

So do very strong guys.

[Just_Ken]

Of thats all they got they get choked out

[exitseven]

I saw a guy when I was in the sir force that got unto a fight with somebody who was doing all this king-Fu stuff , He tried a kick and the other guy grabbed he leg and it was over pretty quick.

[Just_Ken]

Seen karate black belts get knocked out by hooks. They didn't know how to deal with them and because no head punching is allowed in karate training just werent prepared for the possibility

[AngryCarl3]

The problem with the pure wrestling types is that they don't know how to block/slip punches, and they basically don't have a chin. If you look at MMA the winners are almost always the guys with a good ground game, but they need an all-around skill set.

[Staximus]

Because they think training in the gym is real fighting and it’s not. I’ve been in plenty of street fights. Once somebody lands a good shot on your melon and you’re stunned, all your plans go out the window. It’s happened to me a couple times

[Shiprex]

Because that guy HAS to tag you before you get in and if you're quick enough you can deck him and he's screwed.

[Iron_Man]

I agree with you boxing is the best

[Just_Ken]

there's no martial art out there that can end a fight faster on the street.

[Iron_Man]

Right

[Cidknee]

🤣 thats funny!