Did Taylor Swift ruin this man's life?

[RolandCuthbert]

So I guess everyone heard about this case. Taylor Swift accused this DJ of groping her back in 2013. The DJ of course, denied he did anything wrong. He was fired from the station for this incident. She claimed they were posing for a photograph and he grabbed her bare butt under her skirt. The photograph shows his hand very low, but it doesn't show him reaching her dress. But we don't have the full video. We just have photographs.

So David Mueller sued Swift last year and lost the case. The judge awarded her a symbolic 1$ for her victory. David Mueller professes his absolute innocence.

My view is that he was a sacrificial lamb. Of course, he didn't just intentionally walk up to Taylor Swift and grab her ass. I think that is absurd. I have been in a similar situation. One time I was meeting my beautiful Polish lady friend at a D&B. And we had not seen each other in a long time. I was wearing a backpack on one shoulder. So when I went to hug her, it got caught on my arm and force my hand down and I accidentally grabbed her butt. We were friends so she just laughed and pulled me closer and made a joke.

But this was not about a criminal offense. This is about him being fired from a job. And I know people who get fired for a lot less. I still think Swift could have talked with him face to face and settled it. She did not have to use her celebrity to get him fired.

What do you guys think?

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/07/12/dj-found-guilty-groping-taylor-swift-says-singer-ruined-his-life.html

You can see how low his hand is here. But it doesn't look like it went under her dress. Hard to tell.

Updates

+1 y

Oh I allowed anonymous opinions because without it, I didn't think the guys here would participate. So come on blue anons, have a field day!

Updates

+1 y

I should have made this a poll!!!

Updates

+1 y

Anybody remember this thread?

Updates

1 y

Bumping for a friend.

[Anonymous]

She honestly does not know when to stop with her songs even the positive songs about the guys in her life seem to have a negative edge to them.

Not to mention its kinda shocking any guy would be crazy enough to date or marry her as she seems like a walking talking public diary of stuff I'm pretty sure. Many guys would prefer did not get said in public regardless if its mostly done in a anonymous fashion.

I really like the the song Wildest Dreams. But I also wonder about how the guy its obviously written about feels about the song. Plus she has a really bad temper which in many cases is justified.

But in this case Taylor Swift was physically taller in just about every aspect in this specific issue. Its pretty obvious he meant to just put his arm around her but it instead happened to be her butt. I really feel like Taylor Swift blew this out of proportion and just kinda let her natural anger get ahead of the true intentions. Girls are notorious for inflating things beyond recognition.

[RolandCuthbert]

So if your girlfriend came to you claiming that some guy grabbed her ass. . . you would just assume she blew things out of proportion?

[Opinion Owner]

If you look at their pics together her butt is litterally like two inches higher than his shoulder level WHEN STANDING. Chances he would touch her butt at all when trying to just friendly put his arm around her would be like 9 out of 10 times. What do you expect when guy is only like 5' 4 to a girl whos like almost 6 feet tall. Geniuses.

[Opinion Owner]

RolandCuthbert I'd let her deal with it its not my ass that got grabbed. I'm not some prince charming set out to fix every injustice in the world.

There is such a thing as doing things subtly and then then there is doing things loudly just to make noise. And this was just to make noise. If Taylor Swift really wanted to deal with this issue it would have been just as easy to do this privately.

[RolandCuthbert]

Hey, I just wanted you to answer the question. I don't need all your emotions.

Its weird. You are so upset, you didn't even read the post. I agree with you. But his hand was on her ass. I just think it was an accident and she should have treated it as such.

In reality, I have know many people to lose their jobs over much, much less.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm less upset and just more confused how people think this stuff is okay. Its complete abuse of ablities as a "influencer" and most of all its childish to make such a big deal out of this small incident. It could have been a lot worse than simply groping the rear. XD. I'm not saying its okay to give a blind eye to this. But it did not have to be so public nor taken this harshly. I find it kinda shocking people think its okay to just blindly blame and give harsh penalties in a way that in no way shape or form teaches a lesson.

A larger evil does not fix a lesser one.

[RolandCuthbert]

I am sorry, if I am a bit harsh. I have to admit that maybe GaG has made me a bit rough around the edge.

So let me try;

I think Taylor was wrong. She could have simply called this guy when she felt ready and told him about the incident. I do not agree that women should just sweep things under the rug like you suggest. That is silly. But we are all adults and she especially her could handle things differently. She can't claim she was intimidated. She is Taylor Swift, she hires and fires guys everyday for much less.

But all this other stuff you are suggesting throws me off. People think this stuff is okay? What people? Have you read this thread? Obviously there is much disagreement. He lost his job and that is a bit harsh. But he isn't in jail. She never accused him of a crime.

[Opinion Owner]

Well she could have asked him to simply publically apologize I guess is my point. I mean she made this a thing in 2018 when the event took place what in 2013 thats a long 5 years to let this lie dormant. Its seems that if you did not think it was a big deal at that time why throw a tantrum over it like 5 years later.

It really comes off as malicious.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't even think it needed to be public. She could have just said, "you grabbed my ass, did you do it on purpose?"

And he could have responded or explained. If he pretended it didn't happen or claimed she was crazy, then of course. . . bury the guy.

[Opinion Owner]

Exactly it could have been kept so much simpler and shorter and less expensive. And less of a drama story.

[Anonymous]

If it was ANYONE other than Taylor Swift, I might be more sympathetic to her, but just based on the fact that she absolutely thrives on drama; I don't believe a word she says.

She feeds on it, and it's the only way she gets material for her shitty music. So I say she's full of crap.

[RolandCuthbert]

Hey Blue Anon. Well, I am not a Swift fan. I just think should could have handled things differently. I place more burden on her I guess because of the power dynamic. In her defense, he could have said something too. He could have just told her, "I am sorry, I grabbed your ass by mistake." He knew he did it.

[ciitruskiwi]

A judge ruled. Judges don't rule unless there is evidence. If he had any evidence to prove she is lying or he is telling the truth the judge would have ruled in his favor. You keep asking where is the evidence? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. You want to see the evidence go into law enforcement and see it.

I don't care about DJ whatever the fuck his name is and I don't care about Taylor that much. I'm not a fan but I'm not stupid enough to think that a judge is just gonna rule in favor of someone without any evidence. Clearly there was some sort of evidence that made the judge decide what he did.

[ciitruskiwi]

We can't say who is lying or who is telling the truth because we weren't there and we weren't in court to hear the evidence. All we can go on is the judge's word and hope the justice system and judges holds up the law fairly and that includes looking at evidence to determine who is innocent and guilty.

[Moni_1609]

This is true, the asker seems so sure that she is lying but a judge took the decision so it must have been some evidence.

[RolandCuthbert]

Do you understand that this was not a criminal case?

In fact Swift brought no charges against this guy.

Did you read my post?

[ciitruskiwi]

So what is your issue then? The fact that he got fired? Boo fucking hoo, people get fired all the damn time. It's nothing new.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Moni_1609 The "asker" is not saying she lying. Let's establish some facts;

1. He grabbed her ass.

So let's agree to that fact first, then we can proceed to where we have differences of opinion.

[ciitruskiwi]

And who knows maybe there was enough evidence for his job to fire him. What company would want someone who goes around groping and sexually assaulting women working for them? It'd be a pretty dumb move for him not to be fired.

[RolandCuthbert]

You are making a judgement of his character by claiming he intentionally groped her. But I guess you can't see that.

[ciitruskiwi]

I don't know if he did or not. I wasn't there but I am guessing that there was enough evidence to prove in favor of Taylor if the judge ruled in her favor and the DJ also got fired. I could still be wrong but I don't see why a judge would make the ruling he did without evidence and I don't see why a company would keep an employee after a judge ruled that the employee sexually assaulted someone.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think you know what the judge ruled. It doesn't seem like you are aware of the lawsuit or what was alleged.

I don't understand why people argue so hard, when they are completely ignorant of the facts.

Did you know, this case was about David Mueller suing Swift and not the other way around?

[ciitruskiwi]

It doesn't matter who was sueing who. The judge ruled in favor of Taylor, I know that much and that's all that needs to be said. I respect the judge's decision because he is the one who heard it all from both sides and most likely from witnesses as well. Not me, not you and not anyone else so we have no right to say anything about the innocence or guilt of anyone in this matter.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, you are arguing something isn't the point. The judge simply ruled that Taylor did not defame his character nor did she cause him to lose his job.

I respect the decision also. But I don't agree that he sexually harassed her.

But you don't see a difference, which I think is incredible.

[zagor]

Wrong. Since he was suing, the judge would have find evidence supporting his claim. If there was no clear evidence either way, he would lose. If this had been a criminal case, or if she was suing him, then evidence supporting her claim would have had to have been found.

[ciitruskiwi]

@zagor and he did lose. Clearly the judge found no evidence supporting his claim.

[ciitruskiwi]

Anyways this conversation was over a long time ago so bye.

[LittleSally]

Doesn't look like an accident to me... so yeah, he deserved to be judged for what he clearly did.
If it was an accident he couldn't have been photographed doing it - don't you think if you touched someone's ass by accident you would've pulled your hand asap and apologized?
Yeah, any normal person would do the same. He stood there for a photo op... so he's obviously a jackass.

He ruined his own life... Taylor Swift just made him take responsibility for his own actions.

[RolandCuthbert]

It takes less than a second to snap a photo. And I described my situation up above. I am quite certain my hand was on my friend's ass for more than a second. It was probably several. Actually it was her joke that made me realize.

And if it was so egregious, why didn't Swift just say. . . your hand is on my ass take it off?

Mel B wasn't so squeamish was she? But she didn't try to get the guy fired. She didn't try to sue or ruin the guy's life. She just said, "hey, take your hand off my ass." And I actually agree this guy was trying to get sexual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrJ_04FZQI

[COCOCHANEL]

people react differently. i know that the times i was groped on the train i was frozen and couldn't do anything. too mortified to draw anyone's attention to it. hours later i was upset. i can get advice from people and prepare myself but when that situation comes at me suddenly i can only be myself, introverted.

[RolandCuthbert]

@COCOCHANEL I understand. And I am sensitive to women who say that have had personal experiences. I get that.

I just think that Taylor Swift isn't representative of those experiences.

A word from her can destroy lives.

While someone like you will have to fight to even be heard.

I feel like she could have approached him, even a year later and simply explained she felt violated. If he didn't respond in a positive manner, I could see how she would want to make him pay.

[LittleSally]

That's one of the few things I like about Taylor Swift - when she's wronged, she doesn't hold back.
If I had that kind of power I wouldn't give the guy heads up either. I'd do exactly what she did.

[RolandCuthbert]

" I'd do exactly what she did. "

So whenever you greet male friends you expect;

https://i.imgur.com/4F5O0gl.jpg

[bubble_tea]

"I just think that Taylor Swift isn't representative of those experiences.
A word from her can destroy lives. While someone like you will have to fight to even be heard. "
So you're basically saying, if you can be heard, you should shut up. If you can't be heard.. oh well, sucks to be you.

[RolandCuthbert]

@bubble_tea Nope that isn't what I said at all. I feel she has more responsibility, just like anyone else in her position. Because when she makes a claim, people like you take it as truth. She could have talked to the guy and if he was a jerk about it and completely denied it, then she could have buried him. And her millions of followers would do all the work.

Right now, this has turned into the biggest debate at GaG. People have made this into what it definitely is not. This is not a debate about sexual harassment.

It is wrong.

But not everyone who accidentally touches Taylor Swift's behind is committing sexual assault. And that is what you are refusing to admit.

[bubble_tea]

No, not everyone, but he was. And I didn't automatically believe her as I'm not even a Taylor Swift fan, but I believe her when she has witnesses that tells the same.
And she should have as little moral obligation to speak to him in private to ask whether he "intentionally" did it or just "accidentally" as @COCOCHANEL has against her perpetrators.
She is human like anyone else. You shouldn't demand one thing for common people with a little voice and another thing for famous people.

[JDavid25]

@bubble_tea I don't think he was demandin anything.. He was simply sayin that Taylor is waay more power than the average woman.. Whereas y'all don't.. Y'all cannot be heard as easily.. One word from Taylor can ruin people's lives.. A touch on the butt is wrong and assault, but if that's all he did his life didn't deserve to be ruined.. Yeah in some way he should have paid for it, but not life ruinin consequences.. Although to be fair I don't know the dude, and what he did so I can't say for sure..

[bubble_tea]

@JDavid25 All she did was report to his management what he had done, because he was representing that station. His management questioned him and fired him. She didn't request him to be fired. It seems people are suggesting she shouldn't ever speak about any harm done to her, because she could ruin someone's life who deserved it for what they've done. Her perps should remain unharmed, like the rest of perps who attack the common people.

[JDavid25]

@bubble_tea I mean if that's what happened, then that's fine.. Like I said, I don't know the dude, or if he deserved it... Sure he deserved punishment for maybe violatin the girl though.. And no nobody (at least not me) is suggestin that.. Just that she should be careful.. It's like a police officer stoppin crime wit a tazer vs. a police officer stoppin crime wit a gun.. Nobody is tellin the police officer not to use it, but that the circumstances should need to really call for it.. Also I definitely didn't say he should remain unharmed..

[RolandCuthbert]

@bubble_tea "It seems people are suggesting she shouldn't ever speak about any harm done to her, because she could ruin someone's life who deserved it for what they've done. "

Why do you keep saying that, when it is not true?

[bubble_tea]

@JDavid25 That's the thing.. why would people even assume she wasn't careful with that? Does she have a history of lying and accusing people of harassing her I don't know of?

[JDavid25]

@bubble_tea Well, even if that wasn't her intention that was the result.. Also from what I seen, he didn't actually harass her... You like said he assaulted her.. I mean can we assume that she was careful wit it, even if she don't have a record? I don't know Taylor Swift and her attitude toward the dude personally..

[RolandCuthbert]

@bubble_tea Be clear. She has one witness. The photographer. The photographer says his hand was on her butt. I think most here would look at the photograph and assume that given the position of his hand.

But it is an entirely different thing to claim she was sexually assaulted. Because if that is sexual assault, then so is this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3_D3IG96w

And you are playing into the hands of whiny men of MGTOW. Who will criminalize all such behavior just to get back at women.

[Benedek38]

@LittleSally
You clearly know nothing of the case.
1) The photo is not necessarily evidence - it doesn't show groping, only that his hand is behind Swift.
2) According to the confession of the guy, he was there with his girlfriend, who wanted to take a picture with Swift. She was talking with Swift right before the photo, while the guy was keeping distance, as he wasn't so interested. According to him, when he was called for a photo, he had to reach fast, and he just "slid" into the picture, his hand hovering behind Miss Swift.
Judging from his position, this is entirely plausable.
3) Why would you grope a celebrity RIGHT NEXT TO your own girfriend? That's like a call for a disaster.
4) Swift's hand is behind the guy's buttocks too. Should we assume SHE harassed HIM too? Sounds fair to me.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Benedek38 I am not sure what he claimed in the court room. In his interview with Tucker Carlson he appears to agree he made contact with her butt. The photographer said he definitely touched her butt.

I just think Swift could have talked to the guy before ruining his life.

But. . . from now on, we will have to take photographs like Keanu Reeves.

https://i.imgur.com/4F5O0gl.jpg

[lumos]

The judge ruled that he was guilty, and TSwift only gained a dollar from the whole ordeal. Ofc the justice system is flawed in some ways and we might never know the full truth, but looking at the facts it seems like she had very little to gain from ever exposing him or going through a trial. There was no money in it for her nor does it seem like a publicity stunt. So to me, he seems guilty, and based on that, he ruined his own life.

"Of course, he didn't just intentionally walk up to Taylor Swift and grab her ass. I think that is absurd."
People try to do absurd things to celebrities all the time. It really isn't that far-fetched that some dude would want to get handsy with a pretty celeb. Especially if he thinks there's a chance he'll get away with it (like here, where no video was taken and it was word against word). Had it been an accident, he would have quickly pulled his hand away and said "oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to do that".

This is what I found when I was looking for details on the case:

“I had already been in court all week and had to watch this man’s attorney bully, badger and harass my team including my mother over inane details and ridiculous minutiae, accusing them, and me, of lying,” Swift said.

She continued, “My mom was so upset after her cross-examination, she was physically too ill to come to court the day I was on the stand. I was angry. In that moment, I decided to forego any courtroom formalities and just answer the questions the way it happened. This man hadn’t considered any formalities when he assaulted me, and his lawyer didn’t hold back on my mom—why should I be polite? I’m told it was the most amount of times the word “ass” has ever been said in Colorado Federal Court.”

I dunno dude, I don't think we'll ever know, but it just doesn't seem like Taylor had ANYTHING to gain from this. The case had no monetary value for her (but did for the DJ who tried to countersue and gain 3 million out of it...), it was really upsetting to her and her family, she probably paid out of her own pocket for the lawyers so technically she lost money, and I don't really see how the public eye would view this extra positively. If anything, the standard always seems to be to blame the victim and question why they're coming forward, what their motives are and, like you believe, that the victim is just trying to ruin another person's life (why though?). So I doubt TSwift would have sued if it genuinely didn't happen.

[RolandCuthbert]

I think it is not productive to talk about what Swift could have gained from this. Some people have made her into a symbol for metoo. Obviously, she has very little in common with the average woman who has to deal with sexual harassment.

Looks like this turned into the most controversial thread I have posted. Thanks for at least trying to be objective about this.

[lumos]

Why isn't it productive to talk about what she could have gained? Why would she ruin a life without a purpose - just for fun? She would have to be a special type of sadist to want to do that, and I think that's a pretty hefty accusation to make. And she actually has quite a lot in common with other victims of sexual harassment/assault, if we don't focus on her status as a celebrity.

[RolandCuthbert]

I think Taylor Swift and her networth of 320 million dollars would not even consider who she would ruin or what would happen to them.

Having dealt with people who are just as rich, most don't have that kind of empathy.

[lumos]

What does her net worth have to do with it? Even if she does lack empathy, could you please explain what her motive for the lawsuit was if it didn't really happen to her?

[RolandCuthbert]

Look, I am not trying to get into Taylor's head. Having dealt with millionaires and multi-millionaires. Most of them don't relate to human beings like regular people. Most simply don't have that ability or lost that ability somewhere along the way.

I stated my piece on Taylor and what she could have done. If you disagree, then you disagree.

[CherryRoseChampange]

First off, his hand isn't under her skirt. You can tell because you'd see it handing over his hand or at least some indication that it has been lifted in the back. That's to start off with, yes, his hand may be on her ass but not under her dress. And as much as some of you may not like I feel like this could have been handled way better and I think she did, in fact, ruin this mans life. And it was over something she could have done in private and gotten to the top of though conversation. BUT, I think the fact that the "Me Too" and sexual assault cases are whats in now.

She jumped on board and made it seem like "Oh, I'm gonna teach this man a lesson for having his hand too low." Which I hate to break it to her, but she doesn't have much ass so I can imagine his hand slipping too low and him not thinking much of it or not noticing. Probably why he might have said he didn't know what she was talking about when she asked him. In short, I think she overreacted and made everything seem worse than it was just so she can look like a hero. But that's just me.

[CherryRoseChampange]

*through

[RolandCuthbert]

Up to the whole thing about metoo, I agree with you. Taylor Swift is not in any way shape or form similar to the women who have legitimate claims of harassment. She can have people fired with a simple glance. But a woman who works as a accounting clerk or a account coordinator in some real estate firm is facing a whole different set of circumstances.

[CherryRoseChampange]

I agree a woman in a situation like working as an accounting clerk or coordinator does face different circumstances than Taylor Swift. I think perhaps if that had been the case I would be less likely to doubt this mans innocence. Especially since all they have is a picture of where it's not only not under her skirt but he could have been lifting his hand while it was taken. I don't like the fact that he was convicted and demonized so easily.

Here it is yes, his hand is near her butt area but in this case, it's proven Taylor swift is a liar since his hand is obviously not under a skirt. Is known she's lying about some part of this case. And yet, just because there is a picture of his hand near her ass with too many variables that could go into play. He still loses this case. It should have automatically been discarded when she lied or when there was no absolute evidence or things. There is reasonable doubt here, how he lost this case bothers me.

[CherryRoseChampange]

It makes me feel like Taylor and many other girls are mocking cases like when a clerk or someone with not much power actually gets's assaulted or harassed. The comparison of something this minor to those situations annoy me. As someone who has not only been molested and sexually assaulted. Something as silly has his hand being too low or let's say he did grab her ass is pointless to go to court for. She could have settled it professionally but instead, she chose to run with it and make it something worse to look like this huge victim and compare it to real cases where terrible things happened to powerless women.

[RolandCuthbert]

He lost the case because eyewitness reports verify he had his hand on her butt. I am not doubting that his hand made contact with her butt. I just think she could have handled it differently. If she approached him about it and he was just a jerk, I could see destroying the man.

But at least give him a chance to explain.

[CherryRoseChampange]

I agree fully. Good point.

[maiave]

How should she approach him? I don’t get what you’re trying to say. She handled it in a way I would’ve handled it too. This man touches her ass, if he’s willing to do that in front of that many people + cameras, who knows what he might’ve tried in private?

Besides, what was she going to say? “Hey you touched my ass and I didn’t like it.” Even more ridiculous point, what do you think he’d respond? “Oh I’m sorry.” And then everything would be alright?

What she did was that she reported it to the radio station, in fear what he might do to other young female artists, and they fired him as a consequence, since everyone in the room saw it too and it’s not fitting to touch young women’s asses in an industry where you’re always meeting them.

In what way would you have ha does the situation?

[maiave]

Addition: In the photo he doesn’t have his hand HIGH under her skirt. It’s possible it’s sneaking up under it, though. Or the photo being taken seconds before he did it.

[CherryRoseChampange]

@maiave I would have brought him to the side and said "During that picture your hand was on my ass. I'd like to give you a simple warning right here and right now. As of now, I have enough evidence of sexual harassment, and the ability to not only get you fired but take this to the media and even court if need be. Make an example out of you for millions to see. I'm sure you're fully aware of what that would mean for you. I'd like to keep this under wraps, these types of things happen and I want to leave you with this warning. I'm not quite sure what your intent was but don't let it happen again. If I EVER find out any woman has experienced something anywhere close to this with you in the future. Know I will support her fully and make it my business to not only get you fired but humiliated. Remember this the next time you try something like that. I'll be in touch, I'm sure you won't mind doing something for me if I ever need it now. Have a good day."

[CherryRoseChampange]

@maiave I'd have kept him close because he is now obviously a stunt where I could use him to make me look like a hero. (Like she used him to be.) Not only that, but I feel like taking his job right then and there is harsh, One, it's much better to have people under your belt and connections. It's huge in the industry. Even if they are simple people, it matters to some extent. Not only that but it would teach him to be more careful without completely fucking over his life. That's a waste of resources and overboard for something so small.

[RolandCuthbert]

@maiave You are absolutely certain that this guy was out to touch Taylor's bare ass, in front of his girlfriend, in front of all those cameras and in public. That doesn't even sound sane.

But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. So I said at least give him a chance to explain.

I guess this isn't about justice. This is about Dave Mueller being a sacrificial lamb that all victims of sexual harassment can stab and then feel better.

Maybe that's wrong, is what I am saying.

[karahiri]

Nah. This doesn't seem like an accident. I don't know how you accidentally grab a person's ass under a skirt. There was another story last year about a man who touched a woman's bare back because her shirt went up and like his hand touched her skin and he apologized for it since she recoiled. Now that's an accident. That guy doesn't deserve to be penalized. This DJ... lol. I don't know what you think would have happened privately. Some people deny, deny, deny. Sometimes you need to throw some light on the issue.

[RolandCuthbert]

The photo does not verify his hand is under her skirt. But it looks like it is on her butt. I don't see how it is not an accident. I don't get it. If a guy is groping you intentionally, that is criminal intent. If he had criminal intent, then he should be in jail.

[Pamina]

Believing her without evidence is as unreasonable as assuming she's lying. All we have is the judge's rule. And the judge ruled.

But as I understand it, that's not what you're asking. Should she have talked to him before? I'm not gonna tell others how to handle such situations. Would I have? Probably. But that's easy for me to say.

I don't have a strong opinion on this one one way or another, I guess.

[RolandCuthbert]

Understood.

Thanks for posting.

[Anonymous]

No, he ruined his own life by grabbing her ass. It's time men realize they too are responsible for their actions. It's not the woman's fault if you harass her. It's not her fault if you rape her. It's not her fault if you get her pregnant because you don't want to use a condom or it broke, it's YOUR fault. Sexually harass someone and you may ruin your life. Rape someone and end up in jail and obviously have your life ruined. Have sex and risk having a kid. That's how it works. It's not up to the woman in question to protect you and keep you from suffering from your own mistakes.

And yeah, many women need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions too, however we're not talking about women right now are we.

[RolandCuthbert]

i don't think you read my post. So if a man accidentally grabs your ass, he does not have a right to a life anymore?

[maiave]

Accidentally, no. But this was obviously not an accident.

[RolandCuthbert]

@maiave Your opinion of the incident is not fact. Neither is Taylor's and it it were "obvious" he would be in jail for sexual assault.

[maiave]

My opinion obviously isn’t. Everyone who was there is though. I’m trusting what she and everyone is around says. I don’t get why you want to stand up for this gross dude? I get it if you kinda recognise the situation but everyone says that’s what happened, of course, except the guy who did it.

[RolandCuthbert]

@maiave No, that is pretty much objective fact. Opinions are not facts. That is a standard agreed upon in this society. Because if this were fact, then factually he would be in jail. Look around this thread. It is obvious that people disagree that a sexual assault took place. And your jury pool would be drawn from a group pretty similar to this if there was a criminal trial.

And everyone does not agree it happened. Like I said, sexual assault is a criminal offense.

[maiave]

I agree. Opinions are not facts.

However, you’re the one saying that right now, not me.

I said
Fact: Everyone in the room agreed that his hand was squeezing her ass.

Right now, YOU’RE telling me that opinions are facts. “Look around this thread, it’s obvious people disagree that a sexual assault took place”. So what if the majority think it doesn’t happen? They weren’t there, it’s impossible to tell from a picture and story.

You can’t decide if it’s “a fact” or not by seeing that a majority thinks it’s not, since they weren’t even there, even if that’s what you so obviously want to believe.

We can, however, decide if it’s a fact or not by the people who were at the scene. Everyone - EVERYONE - in the room said he did this inappropriate thing. Keep in mind - not only Taylor’s staff, but the people from the radio station that accompanied this man.

[RolandCuthbert]

@maiave You don't understand civil proceedings vs criminal cases do you?

The issue in a civil trial is that the burden of poor is a lot lower than in a criminal matter. She just had to prove it was more likely than not. She did not have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am not saying opinions are facts. That's what you are saying. In a criminal court case, you claim he would be convicted of the crime of sexual assault. That proposition is iffy at best. Because if that is sexual assault, then so is this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQBjaZSJWo

[nalaa]

Firstly - "Of course, he didn't just intentionally walk up to Taylor Swift and grab her ass" -- ehm you'd be surprised. I'm pretty sure every woman has experience a man walking up to her, dancing next to her, standing next her... and then out of nowhere grabbing her ass.
And i've also accidentally "grabbed" someone's ass before and that was NOT it

Secondly Taylor Swift didn't file charges here. She complained to her manager or whatever, who complained to the station.
Then HE filed a lawsuit against her. And only after that did she file a counter-suit which she now won.
So why didn't HE talk to her face to face first?

And thirdly maybe she did ruin is live and maybe he deserved it. He was just found guilty of groping her.
If it was me and it happened and I had the same amount of influence ans money she has, I'd make sure he never finds a job again. Actions have consequences and some people apparently still need to learn that

[RolandCuthbert]

Mam, he was found guilty. . . in a civil suit. Not a criminal trial. Do you really think he should be in jail over touching Taylor Swift's butt?

As for his actions, sure, he had bad judgement. He could have talked to her, but he didn't think he did anything wrong. Taylor is the one who felt aggrieved. Why couldn't she just say "hey, you touched my ass, that was not cool." And if he responded like a jerk, she could have buried him.

Mel B didn't sue try to ruin this guy's life and this was on video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrJ_04FZQI

[nalaa]

Yes guilty in a civil suit and guilty still.
No one said anything about jail

"Why couldn't she just say "hey, you touched my ass, that was not cool."" -- well do you really think that needs saying? It seems to me that groping someone is "not cool" by definition. Should go without saying.

Well what you do when you are being groped is up to the victim, wouldn't you agree? Just because this girl didn't press charges... or to be more accurate... defend herself in lawsuit he filed, doesn't mean Taylor Swift is a horrible person for doing that

And again, I know it seems hard to grasp for some people BUT actions have consequences. What he did was wrong and he should live with the consequences of it. Grow up!!

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh, the thing is I would have be cool with Mel B. bringing charges against this guy. He is on video and I think his intention was pretty evident. And Taylor didn't bring charges. She told his boss. I just think before blacklisting the guy, she could have told him. If you don't then we disagree.

As for the whole thing of actions and consequences. You shouldn't lost your career over an accident.

[nalaa]

like I said "or to be more accurate... defend herself in lawsuit "

And again.. he was found guilty. That means she could prove that it was not an accident.

[RolandCuthbert]

She cannot prove it was intentional beyond a reasonable doubt. Otherwise, he would be in jail. And in that case, throw Katy Perry in jail also.

[nalaa]

NO!
He wouldn't be jail.
First of all sexual harassment of that degree does not give you a jail sentence, you get a fine at worst

And second of all, even if it did. As you correctly pointed out this was a Civil lawsuit. Civil lawsuit never end in jail sentences, only criminal lawsuits can

[RolandCuthbert]

Sexual harassment can land you in prison up to three years depending on the state you committed the crime in.

[Izumiblu]

I don’t see a back pack on his arm.

Say what you want she made complaint to the station saying he grabbed her butt. There is a photograph that shows his hand way below her waist and nothing forcing him to put it there.

He lost her s job over it then chose to sue her... for what?

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, he said her complaint lead to his firing. That's true, right?

And you didn't read my post. The situation about the backpack involved me.

[Izumiblu]

I read the post.

What imaginary force led to his hand being placed on her ass?

Maybe an invisible backpack?

Did she ask for him to be fired? No.

The radio station said she made a complaint and that the option to fire him was their choice.

There were two witnesses , her mom and her then body guard not to mention the picture.

It’s really simple. He places his hand on her ass she has every right to say something about it.

It’s then up there the station how they want to deal with it.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah, you didn't read the post. Everything you just typed has nothing to do with my point.

My point was he should have been given the opportunity to explain.

Taylor Swift is not the average woman or person. She can end people's careers with an opinion. So at least be certain. And I know of only one witness, the photographer who said he did touch her butt.

All of this is about intent. And if you know what his intent was, then you should stop hanging around GaG and go into mind-reading.

Big money in that field.

[Izumiblu]

Ehh whatever. You can’t even have a basic discussion. Any time someone says something you don’t know how to counter you just brush it off by saying absurd stuff.

He was given a chance to explain to his management. It’s really easy to keep your hands off someone’s ass.

In short, it’s his own fault for not managing himself professionally. Further he opted to sue her for millions of dollars because she simply reported what he did. That was his choice not hers.

So he worked himself into what he got.

[RolandCuthbert]

I am having sixty discussions simultaneously. So if you want "attention" you need to address the points I bring up in my question. If you can't, then I don't have the time.

And no, I don't care if you are offended by that.

My point is she could have given him a chance to explain. This has nothing to do with his lawsuit. He even took two lie detector tests, which he passed.

[RolandCuthbert]

here you go!

memegenerator.net/.../...t-girl-some-attention.jpg

[TuMeManques]

It looks like he is definitely grabbing her butt in that picture and her body language is saying "get me away from him now".
I definitely think he deserved to be fired for such unprofessionalism. I also don't see why you think it matters if his hand went up her dress or not, either way it's sexual harassment.

[kaskas19]

Don't know. Wasn't there. Can't say. If it really happened, he ruined his own life. But I can't pass judgement on something I didn't see.

[RolandCuthbert]

Thank you for that comment.

That is common sense.

[kaskas19]

Thank you.

[BellePepper]

He DID walk up and intentionally grope her though.

He still insists he didn’t even touch her. He’s a liar who’s trying to blame her for his shitty actions. He does NOT deserve your sympathy. Save that for people who actually deserve it

[RolandCuthbert]

He said that he did not grab her. He said he did not put his hand under her skirt or open his hand. He also said his hand did not go under her skirt.

But I think he admits he made contact with her butt.

[BellePepper]

You can clearly see his hand under her skirt Roland 🤨

[crazy8000]

How could you see that? 🤨

[BellePepper]

@crazy8000 how could you not?

[crazy8000]

Look again on the pic, what can you really see in the pic and how much are assuming what's going on?

[RolandCuthbert]

We even see the photo differently!!! @crazy8000, do you get it?

She sees his hand under the skirt. I see his hand is probably on her ass, but not under her skirt.

We even see different realities!!!

[BellePepper]

even if what you say was true and his hand was on her butt over her skirt that’s STILL sexual assault and he STILL ruined his own life.

[RolandCuthbert]

Accidents are not sexual assault.

Look it up.

[BellePepper]

You don’t grope someone by accident

[RolandCuthbert]

But you can touch them by accident. And again, if he sexually assaulted her, he should be in jail.

That is what you are saying.

[BellePepper]

I agree he should be in jail and I don’t get why he’s not

[RolandCuthbert]

And that is where we have to part ways. Because if he belongs in jail then so does Katy Perry.

Good luck in this new world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3_D3IG96w

[BellePepper]

Did I ever say she doesn’t?

[RolandCuthbert]

Nope you didn't.

And again. . . good luck. You are much younger than I and these new rules will affect you and yours much more than me and mine.

[BellePepper]

I thought it was always a rule to treat others respectfully

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think Katy Perry would say she was disrespectful. She, like many other women, would probably say it was supposed to be a cute little joke. Obviously it was not to this teenager who really wanted his first kiss to be special.

To her credit, she has been kissed by strangers in public and has not sued any them or complained about being assaulted.

[BellePepper]

It made him uncomfortable so of course it’s disrespectful.

[maiave]

I think she’s in a position to tell if it was an accident or not. You’re explaining your friend situation obviously you took your hand away immediately and you explained you both laughed about it.

Like she say, if you wanted to ruin a mans career, you wouldn’t accuse him of sexual assault.

I think she did right.

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh, no I didn't my hand away immediately. I didn't even realize what I feeling until she said "oh roland!" and laughed. I refuse to believe that Taylor Swift identifies with the average woman who get sexually harassed. She could have asked the guy about it.

[maiave]

See, your friend realised it was an accident because she knows you. You kind of know if it’s an accident or not.

[RolandCuthbert]

And if we did not know each other, your opinion is that I would belong in jail.

That's where we disagree.

[maiave]

No, I’m saying you can tell when it’s accidental. I’ve gotten my ass grabbed by many people involuntary. You can definetely tell when it’s an accident or not. If you feel someone grab it, and then quickly remove their hand, most likely it’s an accident. If they grab it, hold their hand there (don’t act like they won’t notice their hand is in someone else’s ass), or while grabbing it squeezing it, obviously they can’t say they didn’t mean to do it.

Why are you fighting so much for this creep? I’m sure you’re a great guy but why are you standing on his side in this? Doesn’t make any sense.

[RolandCuthbert]

You totally misinterpret my point. This guy might be a creep. I don't know. And I probably never will. But touching a woman's butt should not be a criminal offense. Which appears to be what at least half of the people in this thread are saying. If it is a criminal offense, then lock him up.

And lock up Katy Perry too. And admit that she is a creep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQBjaZSJWo

[Miss_missy77]

Let's be honest or you wouldn't be asking, yes she did for whatever reasons. It was totally on purpose. He could've even been more of an angry emotional outlet for her, due to previous not so good experiences with men. I don't know tho!

[RolandCuthbert]

Thanks for at least saying there is some doubt.

[Miss_missy77]

Whatever he did, it struck a chord with Taylor Swift, and that reaaaally pissed her off and she made it a point to be evil. Also, there is the Metoo movement going on, and she probably used that to her full advantage.

[Kelsea7]

In the photo it obvious he put his hand on her ass no doubt about it even on his face you can tell he's doing something inappropriate. her face too you can see thats she's uncomfortable and the way she's leaning her waist towards the lady, sorry but I don't know her name, anyway it obviously by the body language that she's being groped.

I photos where the hem of her skirt is not being hidden by news headlines you can clearly see the way the fabric has been moved by his hand. It obviously evidence that's she being inappropriately touched.

And the people that are say they don't believe her because of her music and so on need a life. Just because you don't like someone does NOT mean they deserve to get assaulted. Your just sad lonely trolls that need to get off you fat ass and get out of your mummy's basement and try not having a heartattack on the way out, get a job and fuck off.

[PondyPand]

The photo doesn't show any disruption from her skirt- not hiked, or crinkled more if his hand had gone under. From what i know, she's a bit of bitch anyway, so it's just petty of her and downright immature. There's a way to deal with anything like that, and that was not it. Besides, it's easy to rule in taylor's favour since she's a celebrity. And a court ruling doesn't always mean justice to the right person.

[RolandCuthbert]

I just think she could have handled it differently. I could see taking the guy down if he was a jerk about it and refused to apologize.

[PondyPand]

Of course.

[TrixiePooch]

It didn't look under her dress as his hand was a lot higher than the hem of her skirt. And why would she wait 5 years to say anything? I have no love for Taylor Swift. I think she was jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else now what they got their fame. If they had not gotten famous and worked slinging hash they wouldn't have said anything.

[RolandCuthbert]

Truthfully, she did not wait. She approached him immediately. And in her defense, he claimed he did not know what she was talking about.

[maiave]

She didn’t wait five years. She reported him to the radio station, he got fired.

It was he who waited years to sue her of 3 million because she got him fired years ago.

[RolandCuthbert]

Sorry. . . she didn't "personally" talk to him. She sent one of her minions.

[chrisbigman]

I can understand accidents. But typically guys who actually have respect of other people keep their hands above their waist and mind of themselves when they get close and around other people, whether it's women or men. Did Taylor Swift ruin this man's life? Only if it was truly an accident. I'm not certain it was or wasn't. I only see a picture and it's not exactly a clear-cut, open and shut case. It doesn't look real good for Mueller, but I'm not completely convinced. I understand the case was already settled and Swift won, but that doesn't necessarily mean Swift should've won. Judges have been wrong before. They're human, just as much as you and me. I'm not going to automatically believe Swift just because she's a celebrity or a woman. But I'm not going to automatically believe Mueller either, just because he's a guy or a (former) DJ.

[linds34]

Why would he be touching her butt, over or under her skirt? He deserved to get fired and besides, he has a new job with another station so I don't see how his life is ruined. w

[RolandCuthbert]

He has been credibly accused of sexual molestation by a very powerful celebrity.

You don't think that is a serious accusation?

[linds34]

It is a serious accusation, that wasn't the question.

[RolandCuthbert]

The question was why would he be touching her butt.

Answer.

It was an accident.

[linds34]

Lol, if I touched someone by accident, I would remove my hand, not pose for a picture like that!

[RolandCuthbert]

Uhm how long does it take for a photo? You act like he was standing there with his hand on her ass for five minutes.

That's one photo.

[linds34]

Well I don't think he's believable, and the court agreed with me. Taylor Swift is a lot more credible than this creep.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think you know what the court agreed to. In fact, I don't think you even know what the court case was about.

Please try reading at the link. There is a video there if you don't like reading.

[linds34]

If you're going to be that condescending, I"m done talking to you.

[RolandCuthbert]

Bye!

[Angelina25]

Well I think if you touch someone's ass by mistake, you should and would immediately withdraw your hand and apologise. But he didn't! That's courtesy dude, unless of course you did it intentionally.
So, I don't think Swift ruined his life, doesn't he deserve to get punishment for doing something like that?

[vaibhav29]

yeah i am agree with you because touching the ass is not a big deal

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't know how you make the claim he did not withdraw his hand immediately. That is what Swift said. But we don't know.

[lotv56]

I looked into this when this came out on the news. I don't remember the exact details but I'm pretty sure I read that he has sexually assaulted women in the workplace so that's why they fired him because that was basically the last straw. I don't feel bad for him at all.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't have any information on that at all. There is nothing out there verifying he had other complaints against him. This was his job. He had met numerous celebrities for publicity shoots and photo-ops.

[Benedek38]

That's a blatant lie.

[lporter]

Dude. You play that game you take the risk of losing. Look where his hand is. No one does that shit on a normal photo. Even if he didn’t grab her ass he’s up to no good.
And she didn’t get him fired the station did that. And by the way I can’t stand Taylor Swift so I’m not defending her at all

[RolandCuthbert]

I think he could be given the benefit of the doubt. His hand is low and I admit that's her ass. But it was only for a second. I have to admit if I was there, I would have said, "dude you are grabbing some ass".

But give the guy an opportunity to apologize or explain. If he doesn't, then bury him.

[lporter]

I think that’s the point. I’m no expert but I don’t recall him apologizing

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah, I think I said she should have given him the opportunity. . . you know like. . ."Hey Dave, its Taylor, you grabbed my ass, wanna apologize?"

[lporter]

Why should she give him the opportunity to apologize exactly? He should step up and do it. She doesn’t have to go out of her way to say “Dude, I’m gonna do you a solid here” when he’s the one who f’ed up. Makes no sense bro

[RolandCuthbert]

I admit that he should have said something especially since he seems to admit he did touch her. But he probably didn't think too much of it. I think we have to make a distinction, "grabbing" is not touching.

Yes, if I was there, I would have definitely asked did he grab Swift's ass. But I can't tell from the photo. I can only assume his hand is making contact with her dress below her waist. And truthfully, if we are going to make that the standard then a lot of people are going to be out of work.

Swift is the one who felt violated. I think the burden was on her to say something.