What are seduction tips for very low income men over age 25?

[Robertcw]

There seems to be a thing in the US where, low-income is okay if you are under 25, or under 22, as a male person but once you hit 25 or 26+ things suddenly change.

Seems the fit guys under 26 get dating easily, and then the good income guys over 26 get dating easily. But you could well go through life in neither category. What about them.

[Truthbewithyou]

I can't speak for all women, but I can give an insight of the majority.

Under 25, you have the most potential to make something of yourself. Most people assume you are in college, graduating, joining the military, or just getting out of it, or you have been working a job long enough to have been promoted a few times. After 26, you are headed to 30. By 30, there aren't many people who are just getting started or starting over. Most people are set in what they will be doing for the majority of their lives.

I too noticed a change as well. When I turned 25, I started getting the "so what do you do" questions because they expected me to have some stable job or currently establishing a career. That's where most women are and they are looking for Men who can match them, bring more or who they can become comfortable stay at home moms with.

Most of us women, tend to think about the future after 26. Why? Because you are headed into parent hood and marriage territory. The figuring it out times are coming to a close (for the majority). So, if you are low income at 27, chances are you are going to be low income at 35. Low income looks a lot worse when you start adding people.

[Robertcw]

Well it is interesting to hear from someone exactly my age. The disappointing thing with what you wrote is that most guys under 25 are basically virgins. Which means, marriage may actually be bad for most guys if it limits their pool of sexually available people. That's my opinion anyway. You know, a lot of college students are virgins. And side note, I think basically the same guy is the same guy regardless of age so there's really no more or less potential at 27 than at 25. And in fact, with covid 19 everyone is basically one year younger than their age mentally and socially for the most part. Especially single people.

I think the worst part is the biological aging. Everyone starts dying after 25. Grey hair, thinning hair, that sort of thing. Skin wrinkles, basically just regular dying stuff. But in all honesty, capitalism moves so slow that people from poor communities have zero chance of changing the course of their lives before age 25, especially if they fail school. But those are just my thoughts on the stuff you mentioned.

I wonder if any of this stuff is sort of irrational/worth reconsidering to be honest. I also feel like men our age are kind of weird and bad off compared to gen z men and older millennials. I actually feel like a lot of women are age date 30+ year olds and a lot of gen z women seem to be committed to dating men their own age leaving a weird twilight zone for the guys born in the early 90's.

[Truthbewithyou]

Well according to what you wrote fit guys under 26 are getting women. So the guys that are left over are the ones that are not desired.

Are you talking about all college students or just the male population? Why do you think that is? One of my guesses is Gen z is the generation of the gamers. Most gamers aren't getting any because they lack social skills and good self care. I'm not talking about those who play a game here and there, I'm talking about the ones that do their schooling then go back to their dorm to game all night and then repeat.

You are entitled to your opinion.

A woman's clock starts to tick after 25, it gets louder as she heads to 30 and over it. She doesn't have much time if she doesn't already have kids. Picking the partner who can provide for her and the family is the best choice. It sucks how life is for some but time waits for no one. Life goes on no matter what's happening.

Gen z wants to date people they can relate to. They can't relate to millennials the way they can each other. Not all, not all, but most.

[Robertcw]

Actually being a virgin was very common for people our age, too. Athletes were a minority of the population and even then not all of them were not virgins. I was a virgin athelete myself. I didn't even realize that working out could make me sexier until I was 23. And that's also when I lost my virginity.

But as a consequence of that, for the next two years I dedicated my life to lifting weights and flirting. And at 26, it caught up to me because I would up homeless with no career. At the same time covid19 was going on and then suddenly I was 27. And it was like 'wtf' happened. Just 5 years ago I was 22 and it feels like yesterday. Even 19 doesn't feel 'that' long ago.

So I was just saying in general, I think you know most guys under 25 are either virgins or at most they've had one girlfriend or a couple underwhelming casual experiences. Very uncommon for a teenager to have tons of sex as a man.

[Truthbewithyou]

So that first paragraph proved my point. The desired ones are being picked, the undesired ones aren't. This is the way it is for both men and women. It's harder for the men though because women do not desire sex as much as men do.

I agree. I too feel like i was just 22. At, 27 you're still young enough to turn things around. So a seduction tip would be assuring your partner that you are taking steps to get your life together because you've hit a rough patch in your life like a lot of people in the country have. If you're not planning on changing your life, you're going to have a hard time unless you're attractive.

That may be true but that doesn't have much to do with the original question and statements you wrote. My take was based on this: "There seems to be a thing in the US where, low-income is okay if you are under 25, or under 22, as a male person but once you hit 25 or 26+ things suddenly change.

Seems the fit guys under 26 get dating easily, and then the good income guys over 26 get dating easily. But you could well go through life in neither category. What about them."

[Truthbewithyou]

There are virgins who want to be and there are virgins who don't want to be virgins. The ones who don't want to be virgins are most likely males. If he doesn't want to a virgin but is, it is going to be evident that this male doesn't have many attractive traits or doesn't know how to talk to women. This is from a woman's perspective.

I'm not a "study" person but there is a study that shows most women find over 80% of men to be unattractive. That is a big percentage. However for men, it is much lower when considering women. In highschool, I was acquaintances with a lot of attractive males. They had no problem getting sex back then but it's very obvious that that was because they were hot. The same is going to happen for the college student. The hot ones are going to have no problem. The ugly/socially inept ones are.
It's very uncommon for a teenager to have tons of sex in general when you lump them in together. Take the attractive ones out of the group and asking them how it's going? They're getting girls.

[Robertcw]

Hmm I just don't know about that. I think it is possible to be oblivious to people thst try to date you, too. In my case, I had opportunities at 29/20 (parties, coworkers, a few classmates) but was brainwashed by catholicism to remain celibate until marriage. Then at 21/22 I had a breakdown where I realized that was a mistake.

Between 21 and 23 I had less opportunities (I think) than when I wad 19/20. But there was one girl who was 20-ish, lived across the dorm and we talked a lot and flirted, she started liking my social media posts etc but I was too chicken to ask her out back then.

Then between 23 and 26 I was in my prime. I think I had the most attention I've ever had at age 25.

Then 26 was 'fine.' Now 27 wouldn't be ad bad ad it currently is if I wasn't low income for the last year anf half or so. It has taken a toll on my body not bring able to eat what I want when I want it. Having to cancel gym memberships and even for a time being unable to purchase skin care products because they were too expensive.

[Robertcw]

I've been a student from 18 - 22, and then again from 23 - 25. So in those years, I have been financially dependent. And basically, at 26 I was forced to work near minimum wage for about 4 months. And then I switched over to a slightly better than minimum wage position in a field I am pursing as a career -- but the deal is this, I don't want to be liked for money anyway, and I don't want to be disliked for not having money as well.

Mostly, I just want things to be as innocent as they were at 19. Basically, just people being themselves and living their lives, socializing, flirting and being non-judgemental.

Maybe it is a college thing, maybe the people who never pursue school are just ruder or cruder personality wise, more judgmental (?). I don't really know, hut the field I'm going into is a hobby of mone and I'm doing it without the need for any formal education and am living among uneducated people in the poorest neighborhoods in the area. I get along better with educated people I'd say, overall, but I'm excluded from their social circles (sort of).

Also, I expected aging to be less bad than it actually is. At 25 I was you know basically invincible -- with a caveat. I was spending $2,000/month on food on my mom's credit cards. Take out, mostly. Vietnamese, chinese, mexican, smoothies basically whatever I felt like eating whenever I felt like it. This kept me in great physical shape and in very good health. I also was buying and using expensive skin care products with active ingredients from nutrogena and tru skin. Experimenting with retinal and topical vit. c. At 22 I began shaving regularly to look younger to try and fit in better with undergrads (and it worked, pretty much). At 19/20 I had full stubble all the time.

[Robertcw]

But I also didn't graduate from school. And when I was basically in my last term I was dating a very pretty 20 y/o and basically once I was removed from the school I lost contact with her and moved 300 miles. Then covid 19 happened just months after and that was that.

But the thing is, nowadays, I don't have any idea of how to relate to the opposite sex anymore because I can't relate to people buying houses and stuff like that. I'm basically trying to save $4,000 just to move in to a studio apartment. So basically, I'm still in the same sort of life stage as a 18 y/o who decides not to go to college, basically. But I'm doing that at 27 y/o, with the aging process taking place at the same time. Which makes me wonder, would anything be different if I was already married? Would I get divorced because of this sort of situation and etc?

And also, I wonder a lot about how to even stay attracted to someone after they start aging. Basically, 18-26 everyone looks good. But over 26, it is different and it seems weird to me because looking online all the 30 y/o stock photos look great and healthy, no grey hair etc. But then you start asking people their age and suddenly the people I though were 30-ish were actually 23/24 and the people who were actually 30 I thought were maybe 40/50. So my entire ability to judge people's age correctly is way off now too so I don't really even have any idea how old anybody is out in public anymore tbh.

[Truthbewithyou]

"Now 27 wouldn't be ad bad ad it currently is if I wasn't low income for the last year and half or so. It has taken a toll on my body not bring able to eat what I want when I want it. Having to cancel gym memberships and even for a time being unable to purchase skin care products because they were too expensive." - Exactly... I rest my case.

"but the deal is this, I don't want to be liked for money anyway, and I don't want to be disliked for not having money as well." I understand. But there is a difference between a gold digger and a woman who is looking for a provider. This is natural. It is survival. It's reality.

I get what you are saying. You are basically at a point in your life where you are starting over. So am I. I too do not have the things my age group (where I live) has. I feel behind in life. But on the bright side, I have no kids, and no spouse to answer to. I have the time and freedom they do not have. Reflecting on the past and comparing to others can be a good thing but is more of a waste than it is helpful unless you are learning. If there is nothing to be learned then replaying the past in your head is just you living in your memories. The past has happened. It is done. It is history.

I think when you fall in love with someone, their aging won't bother you. I think, if it does, they're not the one. Aging sucks, but is going to happen to all of us. I think being unacceptance of aging or not viewing how a person can still be beautiful with grey hair is a stuck mindset. Mainly caused by the programing of how youth is better and women should spend their aging days chasing it. So we can go around saying "I'm 45 but I look 32". because looking young is glorified. A woman is only seen as beautiful if she looks youthful but a man can still be seen as handsome in his old age. I think it's sad.

[Truthbewithyou]

Thanks for choosing my answer lol. Times may be rough but you got this. What you desire will come.

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

I wish I had the answer for this rather than just theories... but I'll share one of those anyways.

You got to become what you want to attract, so if you think being financially well off and physically attractive is what's necessary then the answer would be to looks-max and improve your income, how you would go about doing that is entirely up to you and what makes sense/what's available... And if that doesn't work, well at least you improved your wealth & health and overall happiness.

I know for myself I'm attracted to women with an athletic build so it only makes sense to get into shape to attract a partner like that BECAUSE you don't attract what you want, you attracted what you are (even if that is PUA mantra I still view it as true)

[Robertcw]

Well actually I think this is flawed too because you know let's assume an athletic guy over 26 who is also very low income who wants to date an athletic girl who is also very low income?

Who is she gonna pick, the chubby lawyer or the athletic low income guy? Probably the lawyer.

Then, let's throw in an age gap of + or - 5 years, who's the younger athletic girl gonna choose? Probably a younger athletic guy. Ergo, the older athletic low income guy seems to be unchosen hypothetically.

[Robertcw]

Could also have a guy who was unathletic when younger, and also low income when younger and then became athletic when older but remained low income because of focusing on becoming athletic instead of financially stable.

Would that be the worst possible scenario?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

I don't know man, it's hard to say, those are all hypotheticals.

When I was 28 I had a 3 month fling with this cute/hot 19 year old blonde who looked a lot like Bailey Brooke (she's a p*rnstar lol) she use to drive 40 mintues to my house just to fuck me. I was starting to get into the worst shape of my life at the time, I was a flabby 190 - 200 lbs at 5'8 living at my parents house with no job along with a bunch of other unattractive traits (that are mocked in the red pill/manosphere). My point behind sharing that is not to brag but rather - that life doesn't really make sense, sometimes things just happen. That's why it's best to just focus on what makes you happy because this dating shit is so random, every single time I think I have it figured out I realize I don't shortly after.

In the past I've driven myself insane with hypotheticals and overthinking things that don't matter (I still get lost in those thoughts even to this day)

Ever since the beginning of the pandemic, I've been focusing on improving myself BUT I'm doing that for me because what else is there to do.

2 days ago I went on a date with a 23 year old who does part time modeling work, not sure if anything will come of that but I don't fit into that top 20-10% of men that are so highly talked about but my dating life is pretty random & sporadic as well though so I don't know.

So back to your question - maybe she would take the chubby lawyer or maybe she'd take the low income athletic guy or maybe she'd take both or neither and fuck the DJ/rapper or drug dealer or an unemployed average looking guy who lives at home lol, who knows.

[Robertcw]

Actually that's probably the most sane thing I've read in a long time. I can definitely relate to the feeling that things are truly random.

[Anonymous]

The others are known as incels. No joke

[Robertcw]

Damn man, that's some BS if you ask me. Not because you're wrong, but because that is slightly annoying/offensive as a general trend.

I know it's not universally true, but it is probably a trend.

Thing is, the same guy is still the same guy whether he is 20, 22, 25 or 27 or 33 etc. Boggles the mind how his attraction depends on extrinsic circumstances rather than him himself. Doesn't seem right to me.

[Opinion Owner]

Women want men like that but most men dont match their requirements. So those guys fuck the vast majority of these women but they will never ever marry one and most won't be monogamous with one because why would they do anything tp stop the endless line of easy women

[Robertcw]

Ehh I mean... maybe but I don't think this is actually the norm. I wrote a take a while back about a tinder experiment and all that and basically it isn't even agreed upon what is hot and what isn't in regards to men.

I think the income thing applies kind of objectively but mostly because of society not because of objectivity. Honestly, I'm starting to think it is basically random. Check out the comment by the user 'WhateverMayBeWillBe' above. Dude's 5'8", was 28, living with parents, kinda fat, unemployed, broke and had a 3 month fling with a hot 19 y/o that drove 40 min for sex for 3 months. I mean.. none of that is consistent with any theory of attraction pretty much anywhere.

I'm truly starting to believe that women are actually just opportunistic creatures, sporadic, random and basically incoherent for no apparent reason when it comes to sex.

For all I know, a low income could literally just block a dude out because of pure logistics being at the wrong place at the wrong times or in the wrong place for too long or unable to afford to pay to enter the right place at the right time, etc. Like just sporadic timing and randomness. Truly.

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

@Robertcw ding ding ding, fucking bingo, you figure it out, it's randomness and right place/right time, there are things that could increase your odds but those aren't always guaranteed (like Looks Money Status). I was an incel before incels had a name (virgin until mid 20s) things change for me because I was putting myself out there and was trying to leave the house as frequently as possible.

*side note - pua is pretty much bullshit, there's some good aspects about it but there's so much more useless and hurtful advice that those grifters peddle - I should write mytake about that at some point.*

As for that 19 year old, how I met her was absolutely random - a friend of mine sent her a friend request on Facebook, she didn't know who he was so she creeped his profile, he had recently post a video audio clip of me noodling around on guitar (nothing really special or impressive in my opinion) something about it caught her attention so she creeped my profile on Facebook & Instagram, then she DMed me on IG about something else I had posted on Facebook. That started a conversation back & forth, a few days later I felt prompted to invite her to an open mic that I would regularly attend, she showed up and after I perfromed a few poems we both got invited to an after party, we stayed the night & slept together on the couch (we didn't have sex or even kiss). In morning as she was getting ready to leave she asked if she could kiss me, we made out in the car and a few days later she wanted to meet up, she drove 40 minutes from a different town out to me and we had sex a few hours later... none of it makes any sense, I did barely anything to seduce other than "be myself" (lol another concept that I could argue/discuss) but it was just utter randomness.

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

My love & dating life isn't great and I struggle to this day but that's more so base on the concept of "when preparation meet opportunity" (or the lack there of) along with having the wrong mindset. A lot of guys get hung up on stupid bullshit that isn't worth the time when in actuality it's all simple and complex simultaneously. MGTOW, red pill, black pill, purple pill, blue pill, PUA, Incels and so on are all right and all wrong based on circumstances & situations.

You could do everything right and you could fail, you could do everything wrong and still succeed... I should know, because I have done both.

[Anonymous]

Yeah that sucks 😩