Do women get alarmed by guys who pay attention to details, especially about the woman? I ask this because I once heard a woman say she was freaked out that a guy she was dating was more observant about her than she was. I also remember a girl I was dating who she too was shocked that I would observe things about her without her noticing, and she said "I'm supposed to be the one doing that."
What does everyone think? Any truth in this?
This is my experience, and find it very funny, because I have had women tell me all the time, they are very observant, and intuitive. They will tell you that, as if you live in some vacuum where they have some special superpower that men do not process.
It's not that men or women are more or less observant, but non-verbal communication is an acquired skill. But regardless of the who is doing the observation and who is being observed, women have one distinct advantage... and that is they will tell you what they observe and then expect you to address it and change somehow.
But when you tell them what you are observing, they label you toxic, processive, conceited, arrogant and controlling... like you are using some Jedi mind trick on them as means of controlling them. But when you find a woman that is in control of her man, well that's to be expected as the nature order of things.
Observant or not, does not mean that they are honest or accurate in their assumptions, and we should all know by now that when dating you should try not to make any assumptions. You should never assume the worst, but you obviously cannot assume the best.
So as a man, I sit there and observe and listen. I make no assumptions; I just observe and watch... and then as the weeks go by you get a good estimate of who and what they really are about by their pattern of behaviors. But as a man, you try to address what you are observing and think there will be a mature conversation, you are mistaken... you find yourself one word away from being ghosted.
So, is it really about observation or manipulation? Thats the game men play, is it worth commenting on, or do I just condition myself to the behavior, because as soon as I say something I will be ghosted.
Very good points. My thought is somewhat similar to yours. I notice that women tend to take pride in noticing things or being intuitive like you mentioned, but then they don't like it if a man is just as perceptive/observant and paying attention to how she is. It's as if they feel like they lose power when a man has as much clarity as she does, if not more.
exactly, and clarity is based upon your own perspective... but are instincts are all we have to go on... so you then it because this game of who can really figure out what the fuck is happening... because you observe things, she observe things... but you are not having honest conversations. Your just making assumptions and guess, but then claiming intuitive nature d clarity. When there is no clarity, and you are just assuming what you think you know verse really taking the time to find the real truth.
I think this depends on her view of the man. Does she believe that he is someone she sees herself with down the road or is it just a first date/very casual. There are certainly men and women who will make it obvious what they are noticing and make others uncomfortable. If the details you speak of or not of a sexual or erotic nature, she might find it fascinating that somebody is actually paying that much attention to her versus a phone or the world around them.
Yes, this: "If the details you speak of or not of a sexual or erotic nature, she might find it fascinating that somebody is actually paying that much attention to her versus a phone or the world around them."
That is mostly what I mean, when men are paying attention to the details of how she is, her habits, etc.
I think what "freaks them out" isn't necessarily the fact they remember, but more that they paid attention at all. A lot of the time women are told that men aren't really good listeners and only remember like 2% of what you've said. So when a man remembers something seemingly insignificant, that can be a huge deal to a woman.
I'm not saying men never pay attention, I rarely think that's the case, but I too have been surprised when someone remembers something I told them swiftly and wouldn't have thought would be remembered anyway.
Maybe we have wrongly been conditioned to think that men never pay attention, something society might need to work on.
Yes, all good points. I do think society stupidly teaches us that men are just blunt-minded and not paying attention, when in reality a lot of us take note of many, many things, especially with a woman we're into. I also think society fails to talk about how often women can be selective listeners and will get something out of what a guy said that has zero to do with it, or they will only pay attention to that one detail in what he said that is not even the whole picture.
Definitely agree on this.
The man I know are mostly observers, hence it doesn't come as a surprise they know/remember many 'insignificant' things.
But with regards to your answer, it might also 'freak her out', because it is known to be a sign that the man is interested, which could come as a surprise in itself!
For what it's worth, I can never be upset with the lack of information someone remembers (man or woman) because I know how difficult it is for myself to remember things. Anything that sticks is a win for me. 🤣
I really don't care for it when a guy is inspecting me all over. It's like he really wants to check out the merchandise. And if they get weird looks on their face when they're doing it, I just back off.
This one guy everytime he would rub my arms, legs, thighs, anywhere he always used to say the same thing "You're so soft. I can't believe how soft you are". Kinda creepy. 👁️👁️
It got me wondering what other women must feel like.
Opinion
17Opinion
I’ve always been quite observant. It’s just how I’ve dated people. I want to be sure whether or not we’re compatible and could have a future together. If it’s a bad match, I don’t drag things out before letting them know. That way, I can respect their time and they can respect mine. So, I observe to gauge our chemistry and compatibility for a long term relationship. I don’t artificially create situations to test them though. I just pay attention to how they go through life and how they handle naturally-arising situations.
@ManOnFire I’m glad we agree on this. 🥂
Yeah, I believe that creating artificial test scenarios is both unethical and inaccurate.
Putting your partner into distress on purpose, to see what happens?
They’re not supposed to be some involuntary human experiment.
They’re you’re partner, and they’ve entrusted you with their trust.
To create artificial scenarios that cause them distress and to treat them like experiments is manipulative and just wrong.
It’s also inaccurate — because different people interpret things differently.
If he/she does X then it means he/she is Y.
That kind of thinking is very assumptive and would only be accurate if there truly isn’t any other possible explanation.
Like, ‘I told him I was fine with him going to the event with his friends. But if he goes. That means spending time with his friends is more important than spending time with me.’
For the scenario above, it would really depend on a lot of things.
How much of the time is he out with friends versus out with her?
When he asked if she was really okay with him going, was that not him trying to make sure that she was truly okay with this decision? Did he not trust her to be honest with him?
How good is he at reading between the lines? Is this something he’s been really good at in the past? Or has he never been good at reading between the lines?
Why is she putting him through mind-reading tests anyway, where her yes doesn’t mean yes and her no doesn’t mean no? She’s just purposely creating miscommunication and seeing if he understands her anyway.
If she’s hellbent on testing, the least she can do is come up with more fool-proof tests that don’t require her partner to read her mind.
But in a relationship, one shouldn’t put their partner through dozens of experiments.
Instead, they should have the maturity to practice honest and open communication.
If you want to know something about your partner, just ask. And if they aren’t honest with you, why are you together?
I have no idea. My SO freaks out because she says I am so non-observant.
Well, they are women... so they are "freaked... in". They are playing their game to catch and gain control and let in a male. They are a bit freaked, but they like it, as long as they like the attention. Otherwise, he's a creep and she excludes him.
I think its intriguing to me. I’m a little bit more reserved but when I feel comfortable around people i’m not as “quiet.” I’m not freaked out by guys who are observant, more I want to get to know them. They’re so mysterious like actually. It’s interesting because they will notice everything & remember specific details most people wouldn’t. I’m a very observant person too & I feel like a lot of people are becoming less and less observant & lacking social awareness. I like other people who are observant. So definitely not freaked out, but definitely intrigued & draws me in. Keep being you tho even if you’re not as observant.
A guy recently was messaging me saying he thought my freckles were cute (a guy I thought was a mate actually) and it freaked me out a bit as they aren’t that obvious and so he misty have been looking pretty hard and it made me feel a bit exposed.. what else did he notice? All my imperfections possibly 🤣🤣
This seems to be a double edged sword. If you wouldn’t notice a new dress 👗 or a new hair style. Most women would be upset.
I get it that noticing every minute detail might be creepy. But, after four decades at a job that not being observant could mean my life or limb. I probably notice a lot more than most.
Highly observant guys tend to be deep thinkers. Deep thinkers have a harder time being funny and being truly in the moment. They are constantly thinking.
I know most women don’t like that.
Depends on what dating process you have going on, online dating then meeting up is great. A quiet guy is thoughtful and observant he can take his time while messaging and will probably pick up on ques that other guys might not pick up on. When you study a person's character you can have more of a feel if you like them or not. I'm quiet around people I don't know too, I just don't have the added pressure of being a guy.
@19magic online used to be a joke for the pathetic computer nerds and really big girls. Then it got more popular with plenty of fish. Then it trendy with Tinder. But then it got abused with catfishers and worse. It also got political (bumble was horrible) which was completely asinine because dating apps are supposed to bring people to together and pushing ideologies drove people apart. Then it went from bad to worse when gobs of OF models promoted their business on dating apps.
@19magic I definitely identify as that guy who is thoughtful and observant while messaging, and I do also tend to pick up on situations and cues that a lot of other guys are not noticing, yeah. I think it's because most guys are taught to be extroverted and to throw their weight around, and taught to be assertive as a man - even in groups with other men. They are taught to be the ones to do all the talking, be seen and heard by others, etc. So because a lot of men do do these things, they don't know how to listen and quietly observe things.
My sense of humor is a little more complex. I'm not one of those guys who can come up with hilarious one-liners at any given moment, I tend to be funny more often with people I really like and feel very comfortable with.
It’s true. Women tend to gravitate towards the man who shows the perception of dominance in the group. I say perception because he might showing false confidence but it doesn’t matter. Optics is what matters to women and first impressions make or break the dating opportunity.
So this often leads to guys throwing each other the bus to impress women. Sadly many fall for that. They should judge men on other things but that perception of “confidence” is what matters.
That really sucks, I was going to join one of the paid sites that match qualities and all that stuff OkCupid or something. After Christmas and give casual to more dating a try. I knew OF is around but the ones I've seen (not on dating sites) are all very much obvious as in - immediate pictures of girls in bikinis, or girls licking bananas or similar objects, sexual poses for the camera. I figured that'll be someone a guy would actually swipe left to. But if I don't try I'll never date anyone so it's my only option anyhow 🤷♀️
Until those guys ask you out then it's a no, then half the time they pester you, you say you're not interested, and you walk away and they follow you out the building and then down the street and you say yes or hand out your number just to get rid of them. That confidence trait is seen as horrible real quick. The guy who was working as an arcade attendant who filled my penny machine with more knock knacks, and came to check on me 3 times before asking for my number very shyly, was one of my favourite memories. He told me a week later the reason he asked for my number rather than simply type it into his phone was cause he had a Nokia and couldn't afford a proper one.
@19magic “ then half the time they pester you, you say you're not interested, and you walk away and they follow you out the building and then down the street and you say yes or hand out your number just to get rid of them.”
I have never in my life followed a woman down the street to get her number. Has this really happened to you more than once in your life?
To that extreme measure only twice, but the constant asking and followed out that room maybe 5/6 times. Just being constantly asked the same thing after saying no or I don't want to probably about a dozen times.
And I never meant to imply that you were the one who did it, just that it happens and often enough for it to be recognised.
@19magic more often then not women don’t initially straight up say no to men though. They give a wishy washy response. Reason being they like the affirmation/attention they are found attractive but they also don’t like the person they are getting it from. This especially true of a “nice guy” they don’t find attractive asks them out. They think being indirect with their rejection will lessen the blow.
On the flip side some women are unnecessarily very rude on rejection. They try to scold the guy or “give him advice” on how to approach women (never do that right after rejecting a guy”. No the best way you can respond is the following:
“Hey I appreciate you approaching me. I really do respect that. But I have to be honest I am just not interested. Just want to be fair with you.”
Just LEAVE IT AT THAT. If the guy keeps it up after that trying to get you to change your mind (or worse gets angry and insults you) THEN you are welcome to be nasty as possible with him.
But in my experience only 1 out of 10 women I’ve approached in my life have handled it the right when they weren’t interested. They are usually wishy washy or they were horrible. Rarely have I had a woman acknowledge the courage it took for me to approach, respect it but at the same time was honest with me OUT of respect.
And I’ve probably approached well over a 100 women in my life time by the way. Few handle things right when they are not interested. Very few.
I mean you're not wrong, but you're missing out on the guilt part of it. It doesn't happen too often, but anytime I've realised I've got a male friend who's interested in me I feel an enormous amount of guilt that I don't want to get with him or jump his bones. He'll be great, I'm just not attracted to him. And I have tried it in the past I forced myself to try with a guy whom I had zero attraction to and it just doesn't work.
I would like to say I'm sorry but I'm not interested, but a) that feels like I'm mocking him rather than generally feeling sorry for him. b) I'm worried it'll be a punch in the gut and that he won't try again and I wouldn't want that. c) if it's a friendship thing, you're mourning the friendship as it will never be the same again as now your watching every word that comes out of your mouth, reflecting on every action that you do, making sure there's a suitable distance between you at all times, making sure you're never alone together.
Everything else though 100% some girls think they're god's gift to men, when in fact they're the devils spawn. Watched one video today of 'I want 500k a year man and my engagement ring must be 500k at least', makes you wonder what's gunna happen to the human race come another 50/100 years.
@19magic “ ut you're missing out on the guilt part of it.”
Alright here is a big fundamental misunderstanding between men and women. Huge one.
Men do not seek out women just to be friends with them. They might become friends via mutual activities (school, work, etc). But men have their minds made up 99.99% of the time if they are attracted to a woman or not within 30 seconds of meeting them. Rarely if ever do they not initially find a woman attractive, just wants to be friends and changes his mind later. At best he was on the fence and grew to like her. But that attraction was always there and women KNOW it.
It’s 10 times more painful for a woman to be wishy washy to avoid “guilt”. Truth is there is selfish part of her that doesn’t want to lose his attention. She might even be in self denial about that but it’s true.
Men want to be RESPECTFULLY told the truth. Sure it hurts a lot. He might not thank you but he will be thankful. It’s because he knows where he stands. Women really need to understand that about men. We desire to be respected above all else. It’s more important to us then even sex.
Also with your “ I'm worried it'll be a punch in the gut and that he won't try again and I wouldn't want that. ”
Do you mean “try again” with you or someone else? Mature men can handle tactful rejection. I had someone do that to me a year ago. I was angry at the outcome but not at her. There is a difference.
I don’t regret trying though. Because I rather know the truth vs. not asking her out when she was hoping I would. You also see a lot of woman complaining that guys they like don’t approach them.
But thanks for pointing out some of the bs “modern” women are doing nowadays. We need more women calling out that crap.
I think you have way too much faith in women, had I known the attraction was there then I would act completely differently. Two different guys I thought were great friends told me they were bi, we literally checked out guys together. One even had a grinder account and told me about a date he went on, showed me messages and we talked about how he could get in with the other dude. Then months later comes some kind of revelation that he likes me. I now act completely differently as I don't want to lead him on, nor do I want to give mixed messages. And he never explicitly told me he liked me, but was wishy washy about it.
I had a m2f friend and when we hugged goodnight she kissed me and I looked at her for about 15 seconds, squeaked sorry and ran out of the room. I then spent the next 4 days panicking as I had no idea what to say or do.
But I can't speak for other girls but I'm sure I'm not the only one like this. But I've never thought I'm pretty or attractive, I mean I know if I make an effort and do my hair and make-up and a nice outfit I might make a 6/7. But these people see my everyday half the time baggy clothes, no makeup, unstyled hair typically in a ponytail look maybe a 5, and if I add on lack of sleep and eyebags I don't even think I reach a 4. So to say women know men are attracted to her is a stretch, for almost 10 years I've believed I was ugly, and now I just believe I'm average.
The last time I had a male friend who was attracted to me, get a girlfriend. All I felt was bags and bags of relief, and thankfulness that I no longer had to deal with his attraction to me. With the previous time feeling a mixture of being creeped out, awkward, nervous, anxious if that is me liking the attention then sign me up for a head exam.
Say it happens, but I do know a good portion of girls feel the same way and not a minor 1%.
I put a clarification comment on that already - with someone else.
I've had a couple of negative experiences and unfortunately that makes me cautious of all future experiences. One time I was walking home from the club and this guy walked up next to me and asked me if I needed any help, I said not really. And he fell into step, noticing this I walked faster to try and walk away from him, so did he 'wait up why you walking so fast'. I told him I'm not interested in f-ing him, he said that was okay. Then he kept asking if he could hold my hand, I said no and I didn't want to, several times then he hooks his arm between my elbow and pulls me into him. Finally we get to a turn off where I had a couple of turns before my road. I twist out of his arm then say well this is my stop, he said he thought he was walking me to my door I said that was never the plan, he then asked for my number and when I refused to give it to him, he got pissed off called me a dicktease then proceeded to turn around and boot the lamppost, seeing that I turned and ran down a street in the opposite direction to mine, so if he was following me he would know where I lived. He didn't follow and when I went back to the corner he wasn't there and I hurried home.
@19magic any guy who approaches a woman in the middle of the night when she’s alone can’t expect her to be at all nice to him. That’s a whole different scenario.
But I am talking about scenarios when a woman has gotten to know the guy and plays dumb for her own ends. That’s take a LOT out of the man in that scenario.
Of course men have it rough and a lot of women don't seem to see it. Though I can probably say that's cause I was raised by a guy, and I definitely picked up a lot of his thinking skills and I always see hypocrisies in women.
I remember being 17 in school and the girls were moaning about yet another actress in bras and shorts in movies and top less in movies. Then then the next sentence was talking about Thor's bath scene, with him just in a towel (is it Chris Hemsworth? I'm bad at linking actors to characters) and how gorgeous his chest and arms was. I was in agreement that the scene was hot, but I called her out on it - you were just moaning about actresses being half naked, but now you're ogling a guy half naked, her response was well its different if it's a guy. I said it's the same damn thing half naked women are for the men, and half naked men are for the women. She changed the subject on me, and my opinion of her changed.
You are right about “putting too much faith in women”. There is this really toxic and screwed up predicament men are facing nowadays. They were raised to be chivalrous to women only to be taken advantage of. If this happens more than once it leads to deep resentment.
@19magic I give you huge kudos for calling female hypocrisy and their gross double standards. Men see this bs ALL the time. It’s supposedly “misogyny” to call it out. These women don’t care about being hypocrisies because our feminist indoctrinated society encourages it.
However there are things men need to improve upon. When I honestly self reflect on myself I know I am far from perfect on how I have interacted with women in the past. My mishaps were few and far between but I am not going to overlook them nor justify them given the fact in aggregate I have suffered much more gender discrimination then vice versa.
But admitting fault does NOT mean admitting defeat. No. But I’ve seen women double down and continually refuse to own up to their bs like your hypocrite friend. That’s how adolescents think not grown ass adults.
Anyway men can only do so much. We are easy to write off as “misogynists, incels, etc.”. We really need more women like you speaking up about that crap.
Also men need to get tougher and drawing the line and walking away from women. It’s better to be lonely and have self respect vs being a doormat. But it doesn’t help that modern society is raising confused men and brainwashing them to kiss women’s asses.
No. Not in my case at least. I can appear both observant and less observant (basically, I'm very observant, but I also have a load of things going on in my head at once, so can sometimes forget what we talked about, but will always notice details like a new haircut, even if it's just refreshing the one you always have, then some gimmicks, etc.)
But I love it when a guy shows how observant he is. It means he showed me he has a genuine interest in me. And it just makes me fall harder
In my experience, highly observant men tend to be extremely manipulative. They have always been highly narcissistic and rather sociopathic.
Gaslighting, coercive control, sadistic. Yep. All that.
When I see a man studying me like that, I know he is looking to use me.
I wish it meant that they want to know me on a deeper level and finding ways to bond. But nope... it's always very predatory.
I feel sorry for you that you’ve been involved with the wrong men and they put a bad stigma on men that want to be the best versions of themselves for you. I am in that department with my current girlfriend and I try hard to take notice of things so I can be the best possible partner and lover. She tells me the same thing, I don’t know if you’re the nicest guy I’ve ever met or a master manipulator. I recently in the past 2 years came out of a 20 year marriage to a woman whom was unfaithful to me. She gave me a list of reasons why it didn't work and what I could have done to prevent it. That being said, I wasn’t a bad husband and I think a lot of her reasoning was gaslighting and bullshit. But it did allow me to make a lot of self analysis and research into how to be a high value man and an attentive partner. So now I do things in which I feel I would like reciprocated to me. So I pay attention, I do all the nice things, say all the nice things and so far it’s working out great. I make sure no one can say that I don’t put in the effort or the work in any aspect of my life.
@Radiate143 oh it’s definitely a thing. I’m just sad that it’s so common that it is in fact a thing. But I’ll continue to be the sweetest guy she ever met. We are only two month in but we have an amazing relationship and dynamic so far and the sexual part is just off the charts. I’m trying my best to hold on to this woman.
@Radiate143 she said I’m still unsure about that and we’ll have to wait and see. I told her at what point is the waiting over and you see? I mean there has to be some realization where you say to yourself, this guy is who he says he is and I trust him. She said she doesn’t know. So while I don’t want to rock the boat as we have a great thing going, I don’t always want to be in this category of the guy that’s too good to be true, where she is just waiting for me to fuck her over. I want her to feel secure enough to take a breath and be vulnerable with me as I am with her. So we will wait and see I suppose…
@Radiate143 oh she is great to me. So no worries there and in most instances we are inseparable, just sometimes in conversations she mentions how I can seem too perfect. Which kinda bothers me because I feel like effort should be rewarded and positivity impact your relationship, not bring feelings of doubt and suspicion. But I can understand yours and her reasoning… it just sucks. That’s all.
good to learn that you can come of some use.
@radiate143 I still disagree. Although I can see where you’re going. But I think I study my girlfriend too. We have been with each other for 2 months and due to our work schedules and the long hours we both work, we tend to run more a Netflix and chill kind of date nights. Which I love. But we’ve only gone out of the house on maybe 3 dates. As such we know each other’s personalities and conversational skills very well and whatever we’ve shared with one another. But I don’t have a lot experience with her out in the real world to know all her likes and such. Christmas is coming up and I realized i feel like I don’t know enough about certain things to get her a thoughtful gift. At this point I’m just guessing. So I try to study and pay attention to things she says, to the decor in her home, family pictures and anything to give me a hint or clue as to things. I’ve asked her point blank about certain things and she doesn’t have a lot of preferences such as a favorite band or movie or color, which is weird to me, she tells me she would rather me figure it out on my own. So it’s left to me to be super observant and study her. Lol. Not to manipulate or control, but to know this woman that I feel these deep affections for. I don’t know, it’s different… but it is what it is.
Wife response: I can't speak for all women but I find it a very sexy trait in a man. my husband (account creator) is very observant and it is very attractive
Maybe observant men are best suited for observant women 👀😋
Observant but not arrogant men are hot. The problem is if they are so sure that their observations are valid that they don't want to see another perspective.
Not that I've seen. My husband is very observant and everyone seems to eat it up, especially the girls back before we were married.
But you are the one living with it.. does it ever annoy you?
Yeaaa.. that is what i thought about it.. i am very observant myself.. You are lucky to have each other 😊
I am always watching and more than once has somebody comment on how paranoid I am. I am still alive all these years later though.
I'd be concerned that he might be obsessive and/or possessive or both.
They definitely get caught off guard by it. It seems to make them a bit nervous/uncomfortable.
m in my case... they've always been fascinated by itsome might be a bit surprised and intimidated (in a good way) but nevertheless, they do all find it both interesting and exciting
That depends what you mean by observant. If it's just a man that notices and pays attention to details and remembers the things you say that doesn't freak me out. If instead it's controlling observant that's a red flag for me.
I think most women are indeed freaked out a bit by men who not only observe things in detail but retain the information.
I believe so. Though they expect men to be more observant but when a guy really does so they kinda freak out. That behaviour is somewhat out of syllabus for them.
I really don't understand how this could freak them out. in my experience they seem to like it because it means im paying attention. i definitely know women hate guys that are too dense to notice things around them.
Manipulators don't like observant people because they pay attention to inconsistencies 🤭
If she's an SJW she may be upset and creeped out you noticed these things about her lol
Maybe if they are being shady or the guy is Monk-level.
I mean yeah observant in a weird way can be sus but nicely observant is welcomed
what's 'weird' to you?
yeah because he is a cross dresser.. all straight men are cross dressers
They are looking at women so they can copy womens style behind the door
they seem to like it
What do you mean?
You didn't say what you're observant about
No they aren't
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