Where do you think physically unattractive guys, can have success in dating?

[Anonymous]

It seems that most people meet from Apps.

I’ve been on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge for about 8 years even tried premium, pro photos, casual photos, you name it. My match rate is about 0.5% (average guy is ~2.5%), and most of those are accidental swipes. Basically no conversations turn into dates.

This year I also pushed myself offline: I talked to ~300 women at bars, concerts, classes, workshops, friends of friends, just to see if we clicked. If things went well I’d suggest a coffee or art show. Every single one ended with no follow-up. Closest was someone who cancelled a few times and then said “let’s just be friends.” Its a common theme.

I’ve tried ~20 singles events and speed dating. Even women I thought would be more open (say, not conventionally attractive themselves) weren’t interested. Meanwhile, on paper I’m doing fine: 6ft, healthy BMI, own house, six-figure income, decent social life. My looks (per photofeeler) are around 3/10, which I think is the wall I keep hitting.

So far this year: about 600 rejections in a row. I’ve lowered my standards just wanting any dating experience but even that’s not working. At this point I’m starting to wonder if the only chance I’d have is outside the Western world, where dating dynamics are different and women have fewer options.

Given this track record, what should someone in my position actually do? Keep grinding? Accept it’s a dead end here? Or rethink the entire approach and try another country?

[RavVid]

You seem to have given it a fair effort. Given the data you have gathered, it does seem your physical looks don't get female interest.

Most straight guys don't put much effort into appearance but most gay guys do AND gay guys undoubtedly do look better than straights. Rather than write yourself off as ugly maybe try spending some of your 6 figures on your appearance. Find a stylist, get some complimentary pics taken. Won't hurt. Best use women in these two aspect since they are likely to intuitively know what appeals to other women.

You say you have a good social life but perhaps how you interact with women is not the best. I think most people develop a patter, maybe as a secondary issue you don't have a good one.

What I can say, as I am adjacent to Asia, is I know a lot of guys with Asian partners and they seem very happy indeed. I don't think Asian girls are that much different in what they like in a man but they do seem to be more family oriented than Western women which is what you want.

Despite what some think, they are not all fired up to get to a Western country. It is better if you are willing to relocate countries. Your ability to work remotely is key in that and that might need you to reposition in your career. It will take some time to shake down to a new culture so taking some holidays in Asia would be a good start.

Best of luck.

[Asker]

reminds me of Queer eye for the straight guy. I have indeed spent the money and have the fancy wardrobe! I enjoy well made things.

Went out with my stylish male/females and made a couple outfits.. Had professional photographers from Aesop and another camera tech guy, take my photos.. and they're great photos but, no dice.. I've received compliments from people who know me but it doesn't seem to be enough to break the dating threshold.
I'm there with my guy friends who have a success, they say "you guys vibed" "I'm not sure why that didn't work out."
Even the women who say its friendship based "you seem like a nice genuine guy" "you were polite and courteous. I felt you did everything right... just need a little luck that the other person is also physically attracted" but I just encounter these on repeat. I have the luxury of being successful enough to not work for a couple years, and pursue this to try and start a family. Though my freedom to explore possibility only makes apparent my invisibility as an option.

Interesting, did they meet their partners over there and relocate or find them in a western country?

[RavVid]

Mostly over there and often through work. If family is important to them then they are not so enthusiastic in being separated from family. A friend often has his in-laws coming over or goes back to Vietnam with his wife.

The numbers are kind in Asia because the populations are high and also younger. So more girls in your demo of interest. that you can potentially meet. Asian girls in Western countries are probably fairly Westernized in attitude so if you can spend time there I think.

Best of all is if you can work remotely out of an Asian country because you have lower costs though not as cheap as you might expect. There is quite a bit of medical tourism to countries like Thailand for example.

It is my plan in a few years.

[Effably]

I am genuinely curious how you look now. In general being physically fit brings most people to a 5-6.

I'd probably suggest getting to know people in a non-dating scenario and seeing if things grow. Being evaluated as a person first and for attraction second. It might not sound flattering but honestly is a more meaningful pathway there.

As a sidenote. A pal of mine did once go from a 2 to a 5 after seeing a stylist and getting clothes that aided rather than hurt his looks. Had he also hit the gym and gotten some skincare he'd easily have soared into the 7 territory. Maybe 8 now, given how sought after height is and that this guy is about 2m. And I am absolutely going to confess that I bribe my fashionable friends with lunch to get them to do my shopping for me. Definitely helps.

[Asker]

You'll have to play photofeeler to find out.. :)
Its been quite a change I use to weigh about 135KGS at 15. I would say I was a 1 then, and its certainly a huge change. I've been re-styling this year had 3 different haircuts, re outfitted myself following multiple different fashion advice etc.

I've had many female friends over the years, they always have boundary of friendship. When I ask them how they meet people romantically, I've never encountered anyone who says it was an over-time sort of thing. Rather instant and built from there or didn't. My university course/career are somewhat female orientated space.. If I was to try and calculate how many possible interactions I've had that might have led to something it would well into the thousands... tens of thousands? rip.. So it really doesn't seem like a meaningful pathway is there.
Curious how his luck turned out post stylist?

[Effably]

He did get his first girlfriend a month or so after the makeover. Hasn't been outstanding since then, but normal. Normal is good.

Got no idea about the photofeeler thing. I can only reiterate the point of picking a friend with good sense to play makeover stylist with you.

Naturally when we meet someone new we establish expectations and roles. The by far easiest path for most is to make that be 'partners' and go from there.

I don't know mate. There are so many people that finding someone should not be impossible, even if challenging. I feel you must be falling for some trap. Are you listening too much to dating advice? Trying to present yourself too much like an ad and not as a person? Hey, I am this tall and do this rarely works as well as a simple personal story. After all if you hit people with statistics you are measured by the same metric.

My normal is to grab a completely unrelated thought and run with it. A story of that one time I was drunk. A conversation about apples. Metaphysics, the last book read. The topic of making conversation being awkward im dating is always a winner. Whole point being that if you have forgotten it, the important thing is yourself not some accolade. We are all here for a few decades and that's it. The job you have or don't have doesn't matter as much as most of us think.

[Asker]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I’ve seen it take about a month for some of my guy mates too, so yeah normal is indeed good.

Photofeeler is just a site where users rate each other’s photos anonymously, and I use it to find the best ones for apps. On the style front, I’ve had both guys and girls help me and these are people who consistently get compliments when we’re out, so I know I’m not just relying on random advice.

I’ve wondered if I was falling into a trap too, which is why I’ve pulled in so many outside perspectives: friends, dating coaches, people who’ve been there in action with me. I’ve tried presenting myself in different ways, from serious to casual. In speed dating I’ve gone from literally 0 matches to a few, but they always end up ghosting anyway.

I don’t think I’m leaning too hard on statistics when I talk to people in real life though I do use them online to make sense of my results. Offline, I probably sound more like you: talking about art, travel, books, random topics. I can get conversations going, but even when there is energy and the context is a speed dating event they still see it as friendship only.

So I’m left wondering if it really comes down to looks as the filter. Like your friend, his change only “worked” once the outside matched what people were willing to consider. I don’t mind the challenge, but it feels like I’ve hit a ceiling where effort doesn’t change the outcome.

[Effably]

You actually made me look at a bunch of photofeeler photos. Maan, this is nonsense. I am seeing so many 5s rated as 9s and solid 8s rated as 3s. Abd myt taste is amazing! I am always right. Maybe it is reliable with enough samples but come on.

Looks is and always will be the true difficulty setting. From story mode to near impossible. Which is also why dating advice is awkward. So if you can improve your looks, absolutely. It might help the most.

But really! With a workout routine and good fashion you'd need some serious asymmetry to not be at least average! So much easier if we know what we work with. If you're horribly disfigured maybe lean into it?

You are now a rare exception where I am totally in favour of an How Do I Look. So hit me up if you ever do one. Good luck mate. Chin up high. Everyone sucks at dating.

[_Maya_]

I can only speak for myself on how I've met people. My current partner and I met where I worked. I used to bartend. She would frequently come in and I could just tell she was interested. She always sat at my end of the bar so I'd have to serve her. It was cute because she was so nervous to really ask me out. I finally had to be the one to ask if she'd like to have a drink when my shift was over. She waited all night (I was first bartender to be cut for the night when things died down). The relationship before that I met at school. He was in a class of mine and we had a group project. That's how that started. Two previous relationships where also people I met in school.

[Asker]

That sounds like a nice encounter, I did a bit of bar tending when I was 18-20 but never had any encounters like that though saw many others! Highschool/uni no luck, I had a lot of female friends but if I ever asked them out, its a hard boundary of- I dont' date my friends, my friends are like family etc.

[katiesmuff]

Somewhere in person where your real you can be seen such as your personality or your work ethics. Physical looks are just superficial and tell you almost nothing about the real person.

[Asker]

Any idea where that might be?

The people at work aren't looking, nor is work really the best version of your self to meet people. HR in 2025 looks pretty rough for a man asking women out too! If someone signalled in that space sure, but its all friendship.
I am aware physical looks are just superficial... but I can't seem to encounter women who prioritise that. I've spoken to so many this year and at times they tell me about their difficulties.. but even those women who've been treated "poorly" aren't prioritising ethics. So I can't help but think that the type of person is a fairy tale.

[jennifer_bloom]

I had guys approach me while I was busing home from work, while I was at a coffee shop to get tissue paper, while I was walking from the bus stop to the church, while I was grabbing condiments for my popcorn, those are all good places for engaging females in conversation. You could invite them to a food festival later that week, a poetry club event, a meditation seminar, or a charity event that needs volunteers etc.

[Asker]

Out of all those people who approach you who ends up being the successful ones? I I can see on your profile you've dated two people your entire life. Yet I'm sure you've had many more than 2 approaches.

[jennifer_bloom]

I cannot figure out who is good or bad unless I talk to them and none of them were necessarily bad but I was too busy to explore them as individuals so I did not date or exchange contacts with any of them. I might be willing to hang out at a nearby coffee shop next to a movie theatre with somebody I have a good three hours of conversation with at a movie theatre or restaurant, but I would not feel comfortable venturing into something more close, such as riding a bus together somewhere, or dining in a closed area, where there are no witnesses or passerby's in some hidden corner inside a restaurant etc...

[Asker]

Interesting if you never explored those approaches yourself, what makes you recommend them to others? I can’t imagine bumping into a stranger and either of us having "three hours" free for conversation; you’d probably feel like you’re trapping them. Most conversations last 5–30 minutes, then you’d exchange numbers or ask them for coffee.

I’m trying to start a family, so I’m curious how your advice applies to someone in that stage of life. It seems like there’s a mismatch between your experience and the advice you’re giving, which makes me question how useful it is for people in my situation.

[Nikki1989]

My husband, who is an average-looking man, approached me while I was grocery shopping. His personality, charm, and sense of humor won me over almost instantly. If you have the goods, it is not difficult to find someone.

[Asker]

I get what you’re saying, but after putting myself out there so much, what I’ve noticed is that women just don’t give me any effort, energy, or enthusiasm back. It’s not that I’m unwilling to bring personality or humor I try to. The problem is that without even a baseline of interest from the other side, there’s no room for those things to make a difference.

[Vegasrunner]

These guys stole my study did this almost 25 years ago on a college campus.