What is your opinion on the educational system? Is it a flop? What changes would you make if you had the power?

[teen123]

[MTC29]

If you look at science and math scores around the world, the US doesn't even break into the top ten. I went to high school in the 1970s, and while public education (which has a different meaning in America than in the UK) was good, I knew that it wasn't learning science and math at levels I knew I would need for a graduate engineering degree- which was my goal. Even so called "honors" classes were at levels considered "standard" in most countries. My mom was a single mom who couldn't afford to send me to private school, so for the most part, my high years bored me to death.

Fixing this involves getting back to the fundamentals of science, math and English language skills. To be frank, the sentence structure, syntax and the near total lack of punctuation used by young native English speakers on this site (Americans in particular) is frighteningly bad. There is no chance of these young people gaining a well paying professional job which requires them to submit a papers or a reports.

I'm comfortably retired, so my worries are few. I wish good luck to those who are following behind me.

[Qdbrown]

Teacher Unions need to be either revamped or destroyed. They care more about keeping average to mediocre teachers than promoting the best. They make it hard for new teachers to become apart of the club, and scare them enough to go along with their dumb ideas to stay in the club. It's a head scratcher why any young person would want to be a teacher, with them same effort make $10-30k more a year in corporate.

And then America is really falling behind with the rest of the world. Many companies are having to hire people outside the US with H1-B Visas to have a workforce that meets their minimum standards. Most American kids come out about as knowledgeable as many advanced third world countries.

And since the CRT Debacle, parents are tired of schools looking to indoctrinate their kids into agendas they don't agree with, be it CRT, LGBTQ and Socialism. They claim they don't teach it, but they do promote here and there, and as with my kid's school, they do have special race says each month, along with Black Awareness Month and Coming Out days and meetings for gay students. Now the big deal there is all the Trans kids. My daughter's class is all trans except her, and she now thinks she is a Lesbian at 12. Most parents just want their kids to learn what they need, not get into current socio events.

[Aimée__LJ]

The American education system is insanely a flop. Mostly in history and geography. You only really learn about the USA. Americans are even taught that they single handedly stopped ww2...

[BCRanger10]

Very bad.

Here's what needs to happen...

• Ban critical race theory (I'd even say criminalize it)
• Eliminate standardized testing
• Break the teachers' unions and close the Department of Education
• Teach basic life skills
• Stop pushing the enormous waste of time and money that is college
• Purge all political ideologues from public education
• No sex ed; that is between the family, their child, and yes, their church

[slatyb]

there's a word for teens that don't receive scientifically based sex education and don't educate themselves. We call them parents.

[Avicenna]

It's a mixed bag, TBH, but remember that public education has to educate everyone, including the least motivated learners and ones with severe learning disabilities. There should be more resources put into educating stronger students, and standards in math and foreign languages in particular should be raised for average and top students.

[slatyb]

Do you mean in the US? Local funding of schools is a disaster for poor communities. Teacher salaries in most places are inadequate to attract highly talented people. I'm a software developer making twice as much as a public school teacher in Seattle and several times as much as a public school teacher in Oklahoma. So we have math teachers who can't do math and English teachers who can't write.

[Avicenna]

It's not correct to say "we have math teachers who can't do math and English teachers who can't write"- even a totally new teacher hired on an emergency basis must generally at least have passed an exam in the relevant subject area in order to enter the classroom in the first place. It's not the teachers who are the problem.

It's true that salaries are inadequate in most places, but Math, Science, Career Tech, and Foreign Language teachers should be paid more than English, Social Studies, Phys Ed, and Driver's Ed teachers.

[slatyb]

@Avicenna Yes, it is. I've mat them teaching my kid in middle school and high school. One English teacher complained of non-standard grammar in some creative writing. It was dialog and reflected the speech if the characters in the story. Fucking stupid. My 12-year-old was a better writer. They had a geometry teacher who couldn't construct a proof. An AP CS teacher without a clue. But of course you can't find a high school CS teacher who can program, because actually programming pays far far better than teaching high school.

[Avicenna]

You may be right, but I think it's possible that you're one those helicopter parents who always knows better.

Everyone knows that IT has rampant age discrimination. Someone our age or even older who is retired from industry would make a perfect CS teacher, but they shouldn't be expected to do a bunch of extra administrative tasks and there should be a non-bureaucratic system for getting them certified.

[slatyb]

@Avicenna Right. I know a guy who was hired by Amazon at 56. People who can do the work are hired. And no, I'm not a helicopter parent that always knows better, but I can read and write and have done graduate work in math. Passing most tests doesn't mean a damn thing. AP exams? Sure. Certification exams? If they were at all difficult they would have to pay more. I doubt that many high school math teachers could get a 5 on the BC calc test.

[Avicenna]

You can take a look at the areas covered in the 7-12 Math Praxis exam (if you like. And that doesn’t take into account that math, physics or engineering majors are preferred for math teaching positions. I doubt you’d say they can‘t get a 5 on the BC exam, and most if those teaching math will have one of those degrees (or maybe also an economics degree).

Interesting that you didn’t mention IB exams (generally considered tougher than AP).

Just because done older people can get jobs in IT doesn’t mean there isn’t rampant age discrimination. I once worked with a 59 year old developer, but he was unusual.

[slatyb]

@Avicenna Do you have a link to a sample exam? I would be interested in seeing it.

[Avicenna]

No, because ETS makes you pay for one or more, but the topics covered can be found for Exam 5161 at ets. org/praxis. It only goes up through Calculus, so it’s not comparable to a comprehensive exam at the end of a math program, but it’s intended for math or related majors.

[exitseven]

I know that the education I got in the 70s and 80s was superior to the ones my kids got. My kids did not learn a lot of the basics and were not taught how to write in cursive. The teachers were a lot more interested in making it fun for the kids. My teachers were more invested in making my life a living hell.

[slatyb]

Cursive is long obsolete. I haven't used it ever. Do you also want to teach were every student how to ride a horse? Prepare a meal starting with a live chicken? Make clothing from a pattern? Drive a car with a manual transmission?

[exitseven]

@slatyb I didn't like that they were not taught a lot of basic math because they could use calculators. As a result they cannot figure out simple math like percentages in their heads.

[arigo_hoto]

I only have complaints on history class. I think American history is a joke. America has no history and yet it takes an entire year of our education system. Down grade that subject so that we can learn more important stuff like world history or history of morality or whatever.

[RawIronhide]

I'd take away standardized testing and teach children practical hands on trades or applicable knoledge like micro economics and personal finance management.

[slatyb]

What are you going to teach the students with professional ambitions? Are you going to teach compound interest ton the kids taking calculus? I agree that its stupid to push every student towards college. There's no single curriculum that fits every student.

[RawIronhide]

No I deffinatly see a need for those courses II just see hands on training as more effective and underutilized in the school systems currently. Standardized test adds unnecessary stress and promotes quick memorization rather than retention or comprehension of the subject and often kids resort to just cheating in some form or another.

[slatyb]

Very true, but that's all teachers can do when they have 30 in a class.

[RawIronhide]

I understand, I don't blame teachers. My teachers were great but often were forced to make due with less than ideal circumstances.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

Get businesses/future places of work more involved. They always whine that people coming out of schools aren't prepared for them. So why don't they come show how to do it better?

[moviedude714]

Definitely stupid, messed up, they should make interpersonal communication as part of the education system in our teens, formative years, social dynamics, etc.