If you really do know a subject as well as a person with a degree, you can lie about a degree and say you have one. A company may or may not check on it. But you have to know the subject matter for real, not just think you do. The process of getting a degree requires a heck of a lot of learning, probably a lot more than you are likely to learn on your own.
Some managers don't care about a degree even in fields that normally require a degree. I've worked with non degreed engineers before who did the same work with the same pay as degreed engineers.
But the bottom line is that a degree really does make a big difference. If a particular job requires one, it will be difficult to get the job or fake it without actually having a degree. It's not just a piece of paper. It's the education itself that's important. The paper is just a way to verify that you really did learn the subject matter. That's where
accreditation comes in. A school that hands out degrees to just anyone won't be accredited. The degree has to mean something.
There are also a LOT of good jobs that don't require a degree. Here in the U. S. there are too many people getting degrees, which is causing a shortage in other areas. Just a basic handyman who knows what he's doing and hustles can do better than a lot of people with degrees. Skilled tradesmen can do even better.
m AI search so use two tea spoons of salt... lol
" Many billionaires, especially in tech and retail, built fortunes without college degrees, including famous names like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and Michael Dell, alongside entrepreneurs like Richard Branson, Paul Allen, Haim Saban, and John Paul DeJoria, showing that significant wealth can be achieved through innovation, drive, and business acumen rather than formal higher education.
Tech & Software Giants (Dropouts/No Degree)
- Bill Gates (Microsoft): Dropped out of Harvard.
- Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook): Dropped out of Harvard.
- Steve Jobs (Apple): Dropped out of Reed College.
- Michael Dell (Dell Computers): Dropped out of the University of Texas.
- Larry Ellison (Oracle): Dropped out of the University of Illinois.
Retail & Media Moguls
- Richard Branson (Virgin Group): Left school at 16.
- Haim Saban (Media): Didn't pursue higher education after high school.
- David Murdock (Dole Foods): Never finished high school.
-Amancio Ortega (Zara): Started working as a delivery boy.
- François Pinault (Luxury Goods): Left school due to bullying over his working-class background.
Other Notable Billionaires
- Henry Ford (Ford Motor Co.): Left home for an apprenticeship.
- Ted Turner (CNN): Dropped out of Brown University.
- David Geffen (Music/Film): Dropped out of college.
- John Paul DeJoria (Paul Mitchell, Patrón): Finished high school, then joined the Navy
Yet you can’t even a good job nowadays without the right education
this might explain your situation... lol
@exitseven yeah... and for every one successful person with a college title, there are hundreds of them with DoorDash or an Uber license... just so they can make it through the month... if, they're lucky
@exitseven you must have been some sort of engineer... so yes, companies need that protection to avoid bigger lawsuits, lol
Engineering, Medicine, Law... those still require diplomas, I would not trust any of these... without a diploma either but for a whole lot of other things... employers won't even ask you for it, just your experience and knowledge
my younger brother went into business/management without a college education and for the most part it went well but only to a point... too young, too good but no diploma, there was no more promotions until he got the papers, which he did... the company paid for it too
@exitseven definitely a liability... if you didn't have a diploma, lol
It's true there are a few who become highly successful without an education but they are the exception not the rule. Besides these people tend to come from wealthy families and have good connections.
All that piece of paper does, regardless if its a school certificate, a college one, or from university is tell an employer you can be trained to a certain standard within a certain time frame.
If you can't be trained to pass your school exams then I'm going to assume I can't train you to do the job. As jobs become more difficult employers want evidence you can be trained quickly and your degree etc is evidence of that.
That’s stupid for people with learning disabilities who have a difficult time in school
That's why we don't let people with learning difficulties fly planes or carry out medical operations
You sound discriminatory! What jobs can they get then!
A couple of years ago, I participated in a fairly high-level roundtable discussion on education policy. One man had no post-school qualifications and contributed just as well as everyone else that had degrees, often higher degrees, and appeared to earn about the same income. But he was one person in 20 at the table. Which tells you everything you need to know about higher education in one little parable.
While some jobs do require the minimum of a high school graduation or GED equivalent to perform the work, not all do. And with GED specifically that can be taken multiple times so there’s no massive issue there. The jobs that require higher degrees do so because they need a guarantee that you have a higher understanding of certain things and that your thought process is not something to be expected of someone who has not received that education.
Like, I’m not going to be able to work at NASA without proving I know how to do very advanced math, and it’s easier to just have a degree than have every job require an entrance exam.
That’s stupid for people with learning disabilities who have a difficult time in school. Like i can’t even get a G. E. D, more or less get a high qualification college degree
I’m pretty sure you can take the GED with accommodations as long as you have the paperwork to justify them
Opinion
35Opinion
It doesn't you do depending on who you are and if you understand America's rules and politics
first of all your fucked from the beginning because the elected officials your parents voted for has stripped the education system to teach you the things in life you will need to succeed
Strike 1
Strike 2 is
They only teach you history that is so important to under stand who we are and where we came from but it's all a big lie or only part truth
Strike 3 they won't allow any teaching of God in the class room because they want to keep you focused on the lie
Of who God is but even more so who you are...
They are not afraid of you knowing God. But they have deleted, everything. So we believed that the focus is about god
There's nothing to do with god
It has to do unpowerful , you are and who you are , who you really truly are and how much power you have in this world
And in order to gain that power , all you need is your brain a little bit of wisdom , a little bit insight and a little bit of truth
Can you have to go to science class? And you have to understand energy to understand the universe
They want to keep you confused. They want to keep you arguing, because if you get focused, you're going to find out who you truly are, and if one person can do it, then 2 people can do it there, 2 people can do it, then 20 people can do it, it is 20 can do it 40 you can do it
And when this starts to happen, the system breaks down, they are not in control of us anymore.
So you barely graduate school , or you don't without that piece of paper , you make twenty four thousand dollars a year , with that piece of paper , you might make seventy 52 a hundred thousand a year
Now, who you are is a human being. If you went to school every day , if you graduated , that shows you have commitment , that's what that piece of paper is all about , it's not how much you learned , how much you know
It's a piece of paper that tells somebody that wants to employ you that you are a follower , you are a sheep , you are committed , and for the , you get paid a better wage than a person that doesn't have that piece of paper
Now you can take that piece of paper and go to another educational place, a university and you can spend time there learning whatever kind of trade you want to learn to double that salary, but you have to be a follower, you have to be committed, do whatever trade.\nYou want to learn
But\n That's going to cost you lots and lots of money, lots of time. It's going to hold you back in a lot of different ways, because if you're not 100% committed, you will not pass. You will not get that piece of paper , your new piece of paper
But the government will give you money to go to those schools call student loans , and you have to pay them back with interest.
But it's going to be the time of your life, and it takes away your focus from who you truly are.
Meanwhile.\n Hopefully you get curious and you want to know who you are, where you came from, what everybody is going out of their way to hide from you, why?\n Things are the way they are on this planet because of politicians. What do they know that you don't know? First of all , they're bought and sold like a puppet
There's 16 secret societies in America that have been here forever. They are the ones that control the world. They're the ones that make all the all the rules for the whole world , basically
They have all the ancient knowledge, secrets that you need to succeed that as a human being is your god-given right to know, but they took everything out of the books that could they had all that knowledge from you because they're greedy. They want to control you, they want you to put your money in their bank. It's not here yet the way that they want it , but we are putting it in their banks control the food because if they can roll the food , they can control us
But there is a God there is a book. There are people with hearts that look beyond those people are we don't care
And choose the people without that piece of paper that have been broken, that have been labeled all different types of people. The\nInsight that the truth has been given to , in so many different ways , and it's like a puzzle , we all just keep putting it together
Piece of paper is needed to live in society world the one has been custom made just for you but within all of us, we all have this desire, we all have this journey, and who are we, where did we come from? What are we doing? Why are we going downhill so fast? Who is in control of this? And you don't even need a piece of paper to ask the questions or to find out the answers.
The\nWorld you live in is about to change good versus evil
There is more good on this planet than there is evil
There are people with that piece of paper without that piece of paper that have morals , values and ethics , and they believe in life , they've been in making a better world for their grandchildren for their children
For now, in society, that piece of paper, you need it to succeed. You need it to make money to live a good life
What's more important is something that you need. You need to find out who you are where you came from. Why you feel the way that you feel on the inside? Who are you on inside? Who is god
The bible , the greatest story ever told it will tell you every answer in there that you need to know if you know how to read it , if you can understand what it is saying
There's a lot of good parts in there , but there's so many things that have been taken out to manipulate you to control you find out what those are
With or without that piece of paper , it is your god's given right of a human being on this planet , to become very wealthy to become very happy to be the best you can be
But they took that out of the Bible, the secret societies did, because they don't want you to be filthy rich, they don't want you to be happy. They want to keep their thumb on you and push you down into the ground
With or without that piece of paper , it's your job to do that , to find out the answers to that
You can have it all you just have to find out how to access it. You have to find out how to retrain your brain. What to believe in what to feel and how to do it? It's right in front of you. It's right inside of you. You are God, you are the power of God. If you know how to access it, if you're gonna learn anything for that piece of paper learn who you truly are and become the best, you can become. In the world of love and giving , if you go the opposite way , that's your choice , but it ends very quickly for you and no matter what you think feel or do and no matter what you learn, your brains are going to be taken, different directions, always have faith, always believe always have faith.
A degree shows potential employers you are smart enough to gain college entry, are capable of delaying gratification to pursue a medium term goal of investing in yourself, and perseverance and sustained focus over 4 years. Outside of specialist fields like medicine and dentistry, even accounting I suppose, most graduates rarely draw on the specific knowledge they gain and the value of skills developed and refined is mixed. Plus you have many chances to meet other people with high income-earning potential and marry into a power couple.
Colleges do a better job of signaling inherent abilities than in building new ones.
There's also a significant jump in earnings the day you graduate because you appear to be in the top say 40% of some of these abilities, rather than the bottom 60%. If employers know little about applicants... and for young applicants without relevant work referees or a track record of work achievement that's a fair characterisation... an ignorant employer might assume a graduate is about the 80th percentile in these attributes, rather than about the 30th percentile.
There are lots of ways to invest in your career. Use the time at college to learn a trade... electrician, chef, whatever... and you will have reliable earnings potential. And avoid carrying a mountain of college debt into early adult that may delay your ability to have children, buy a house, etc. until much later.
College is a lazy way to pursue income security, but it works for the reasons I mentioned.
My thoughts, anyway. Happy to hear contrary views.
*instead of at college
typo
Mmmmmm, the goal is to have a skill, a knowledge, an aptitude, to be an expert at something that people are willing to pay for. To be in demand.
No, a diploma alone cannot do that. SOME degrees do that. Being a doctor, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant, an engineer, a scientist.
Real, in demand, fields. Lots of degrees do not do that. It depends on WHAT degree and skill you have. Lots of degrees are a waste. All of the humanities.
Being a plumber, electrician, HVAC, Welder, sales would be better then the debt of school for a nothing degree.
Yet some people cannot find a good paying job without a degree or qualifications
It’s not the paper
It’s the “club”
Everything in life comes down to what club (s) you belong to.
Being an alumni of a great big school means you have access to the network of other alumni.
That’s how you end up in a better job making more money than your coworkers who did a shittier school
Success in life has nothing to do with hard work or dedication or even inherent skill and talent
It’s all about who you are to the people with power and influence
You play their game and they love you, you’re in
They end up writing you off, you’ll never make it
You’re overstating it to some degree, but i’m sure you know that. Say you went to a doctor and they had no discernible credentials. Would you feel comfortable with giving them your money and trusting them with your life and livelihood just because they said they read all the right books? Ell oh ell! Say you did, but it was your kid that they hurt or killed. Would you think, “Oh well… my bad!” and go on with your life? Or would you feel like they should be punished for pretending to be a doctor? Well, THAT is the reason for proper and thorough documentation. Without it, any clown can claim to be an expert and take your money but accomplish nothing of value, or worse.
And in this fantasy world that you’re idealizing, you would have ZERO recourse because you decided documentation means nothing.
If you can do the job, then prove it. Get your documents. Otherwise quit b*tching and go back to your dead end job because you think you’re entitled to things you haven’t actually earned.
Both parts are wrong. A diploma is not just 'piece of paper' it was earned by study... And even a real diploma DOESN'T ' decide your entire future' just you need to know programming IF you want to be a programmer. But actually 'college is a SCAM' more than 70% of college graduates work... in something they didn't even study! But GOT t hired without a diploma for that something!
MORE than 70% of jobs don't even need a college degree. In fact those who attended college have the BAD REPUTATION of demanding pronouns and making a big fuss about things that are really truly harmless even inconsequential. Or worse those riots with those three striped flags= that is college now!
Steve Jobs dropped out college and founded a trillion-dollar corporation by training himself in computer engineering.
My older brother barely graduated High School with a D average, but has income in the 200K range and could make 500k per year if he wanted to do so. He makes his own schedule, has no employees except his wife, and the work is pretty easy and enjoyable to him. I'm not going to tell you what he does, it's legal and a family secret, but it's in the lumber industry.
My first cousin makes nearly 200k per year and never attended a major university, and dropped out of technical school after one semester. He's now a Systems Engineer for a major Data corporation which owns at least 13 shopping Mall sized data centers last time I talked to him.
If you don't want to be judged by a certificate then you have to do something of your own.
Then you can form a group of like minded people and rub your startup buisness or any kind of services you provide.
A certificate is a fairly enough proof of somewhat experience something that develops trust.
For example would you go for your health treatment to a professional doctor who has all his certification and experience.
Or a medical rep who sells those medicines to these the professional doctors?
Do you want to perform those medical reps to perform surgery on you?
m Fairness wise, there's a legitimate difference between self-teaching and certification. Without any system of external evaluation, how to know if anyone is as knowledgeable in their field as they pretend to be?
However, if you asked me if equal opportunities, equal treatment and equal access exist, I'd say it doesn't. The economic system our ancestors have built maintains inequalities to a certain level.
Oftentimes, that ‘piece of paper’ is our buying power when negotiating how much we will earn.
In my experiences, I snagged very large salaries and can admit that there were others in the companies that I worked for who were brighter and/or more skilled than me but didn’t earn close to what I did simply because they didn’t graduate college to earn a degree and a diploma.
Now, with another diploma, this one to prove that I earned my masters degree, my overall worth grew bigger as I had imagined and expected.
Earning those ‘pieces of paper’ is what shaped my future. I can’t say it was easy learning the education I chose and finishing them. I can say that they made it easier for me to reach my financial goals and industry levels.
There are plenty of good career options out there that do not require a degree. Plenty of trades that are unionized and pay very well. There is a national housing shortage right now so becoming a contractor, electrician or a plumber would most likely be a wise career choice if you don’t want to get a degree.
The 'piece of paper' is not the source, but a confirmation of one's qualification.
And as the world moves on, it may be outdated if one rests on this 'merit' alone.
To categorically say that it's "stupid" is an excuse for one's inability (or one's unwillingness) to master an exam.
Don’t need a degree to be a software developer. Build a portfolio, interview well, and get the job. Heck I’ve known a few who started their own software company. Never graduated, one makes custom code for set top boxes in hotels to track guest engagement. The limits are endless..
It's not the piece of paper. Stop the false equivalency. It's the EXPERIENCE, SKILLS & ACADEMIC RIGOR that it represents & testifies to!
Some jobs NEED MUST & DO have licenses, permits, certification & continuing professional development. CORRECT? Why no complaint there about government "interference" in the job market?
If you want to state that too many jobs UNNECESSARILY require college degrees that's an entirely separate argument.
Like i can’t even find a job if i don’t have a diploma or degree. Like…
it's the system and required for so much. Be nice if could just take a test and test out of it.
to be fair, you probably don't want a brain surgeon without a degree and proven skills. but then again, with AI, things may be changing you may want a robot and not a human.
Oh it’s even “less” than that decides our future. People don’t even fully know how our neurons interact with electrons and other neurons to relay and process information, we can’t pinpoint consciousness, physically, nor philosophically. Our brains are effectively and currently the best quantum computers out there, quantum entanglement is part of daily decision making.
A bunch of wieners trying to perpetuate this matrix system, that is clearly failing a lot of people more and more, as time goes on.
”I had to do it, so do you…” “it worked for me, and so will it for you…”
Oh yeah? Tell that to all the software programming students that just went through $80,000+ of schooling in the last 5-10 years and now can’t find work due to companies pivoting to AI.
It's not the piece of paper. It's with a piece of paper represents and in many cases that is either a licensed of some kind or a diploma of some kind facing a testing to the fact that you know what you're doing. In the absence of that piece of paper, there is no evidence that you know what you're doing at all and nobody is going to hire you or let you drive or let you practice a profession. The piece of paper that you referred to so derisively represents competence.
Except it often doesn't. I make far more as a business owner than I would had had I continued towards my degree instead of dropping out after Freshman year to run said company. And many get useless degrees in fields that are oversaturated.
Let me know the next time you want me to do open heart surgery on you "with my extensive knowledge."
Are you people just being dumb on purpose? Like i mean mostly jobs like things that don’t really need a degree. Obviously doctors need one, lawyers need one but…
It's not just a piece of paper
It's a degree
And you're detracting from it by calling it just a piece of paper
It does affect your career, ability to earn
It doesn't come as a surprise because all through school you're reminded you're doing this to further your education
Birth Certificates
Diplomas
Licenses
Leases/Mortgages/etc
Contracts
…
Everything is on paper.
Ok? I meant degrees and diplomas
The piece of paper doesn't decide your future. It may help open doors, but your knowledge, experience and personality are what guide your future.
It is frustrating but it just the way it is. I tell myself that employers look at it as a way to decide who can make a plan and follow it through until the end.
This is becoming less and less true. Some professions do require a degree, some do not, particularly computer programming.
it's not the piece of paper that does it. it's what that piece of paper symbolizes. that's why fake diploma don't mean shit even tho it's the same piece of paper.
Ehhh excuse me a qualification is suppose to reflect what you know and your skills. It is not a piece of paper like you find in the bin or something o. k? Now if you think that qualifications do not reflect ability that is a different matter.
So don't go to college go to a trade school and learn an actual skill/trade instead.
What’s a trade? What’s a trade school?
A trade school trains you for a specific skilled job with hands-on, practical learning in fields focusing on job-specific skills rather than broad academics, and generally takes less time to complete than a traditional degree, preparing you for quick entry into the workforce. It's also usually cheaper then college.
Trades are a skilled profession requiring specialized, hands-on training, often through apprenticeships or vocational schools, rather than a four-year university degree, focusing on practical expertise in areas like construction, manufacturing, or essential services to build, maintain, and repair society's infrastructure. These roles emphasize problem-solving, technical knowledge, and physical skill, offering strong demand, job security, and opportunities for quick career growth.
Trades are things like electrician, plumber, machinist, welder, HVAC technician, carpenter, stuff like that.
m „Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too!“
- Judge Elihu Smails, Caddyshack
Yes and no not so degrees are equal in value so it would be wrong to make a one size fits answer
Your degree might get you a shift at McDonald's. I hope it's worth all your student debt!
So how do you get a good paying job then?
Either be an entrepreneur or learn a trade such as car mechanic, plumber, landscape gardener or what have you.
It really doesn't
It decides your future because you allow it to.
If you don't like it don't do it
It doesn't. I dropped out in 8th grade. Colledge graduates work under me. Mostly poorly.
It doesn’t. Having a bachelors degree does not get you a job in cybersecurity. Ask me how I know.
It actually doesn't help much if you live in a crappy country (like I do).
Because it has question that will train your mind to do certain work that will get payyyeddd!
People forget what they learned in college quickly.
It's proof of your certifications.
It doesn't. Experience is everything
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