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If there are non-white people (race swap) in the movie, is it a deal breaker whether you would watch it or like it?
*Not talking about realistic settings such as the crusades or Tatar invasions. I'm talking in settings where its European mythology, or places in time where there were realistically no people of color.
I wouldn’t go watch any movie that swaps characters out to insert races. I don’t care when it takes place. That said, the Iberian peninsula was invaded in the middle ages. So if a character from Al-Andalus was for example captured in battle and enslaved by vikings, or was a merchant from Al-Andalus that traded with the Christian kingdoms to the north somehow end up in the story as a unique new character then there is no issue there. It’s pretty fucking simple, create new characters that actually make sense. Do be a retard unless you want to lose money.
Putting in people of color in such movies or shows where they realistically would not be in will affect who like the movies/show and who will watch it, while those that don't mind it will still watch the movies/shows with the ones that have only white actors in it and it will most likely not affect whether they like the show or not (unless they have a problem with white people).
Business wise it is a bad move to include people of color in European medieval/medieval fantasy movies that are based on European mythology and folklore and/or those that have certain settings in place and time. This was always common sense to me, imagine them making a movie about African tribes and you have some random Scandinavian dude as an African warrior.
Exactly. Even fiction has to have hints of truth for people to want to consume it... It has to be relatable. People have to feel like I could see something like that happening in order to create immersion. When things are too off base people are like this movie is stupid and they walk out. Then they precede to tell everyone how shitty it was and you get a wave of negative word of mouth and bad press.
Yea it a dealbreaker to me, white history and white mythology should stay white.
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15Opinion
Let's ditch the slurs, okay?
That aside: context. If we're talking Spain, you're going to see plenty of Arabs and other Mediterraneans; a sub-Saharan or two wouldn't be that far out of place. If we're talking, say, Iceland? No. Not a chance. If we're in Prague, then maybe, but not outside of the big cities.
I mean, do you honestly think it wouldn't be immersion-breaking to have a bunch of inexplicable white people in a period piece in Mali? Or Eskimos in Journey to the West? In modern, or even semi-modern, stories, it's not an issue- provided that people act realistically, which is usually the sticking point. These tokens either get inserted specifically to be reacted to, in ways WAY more intense and negative than humans actually would, or their differences get ignored completely. It kind of makes me wonder whether Hollywood writers actually ARE alien lizard people.
Whatever it is sure simply be authentic, so if it is trying to be historically accurate then it should be accurate if it is someones fantasy then it should be that fantasy, i. e. not altered or influenced by retarded fucking cunts who put token black Elves into tv series because they are artifically trying to be diverse. Its so obvious and emersion breaking and pathetically clawingly fucking desperate.
While we are on the subject you can stop doing the following things aswell as these are also epically fucking retarded;
Chanting, like 'The King in the North'
There should be a law against that shit stating that if your cast start this ridiculous chanting nonsense you are not allowed to fade out of the scene.
Wanker commanders ordering archers to 'nock, draw and loose'.
Stop it, thats retarded.
First of all, a stream of arrows is more effective than waves so there is absolutely no reason what so ever why you would want to do this in the first place.
Secondly you cannot hold a fucking bow once it has been drawn, you pull it back and then you release it, if you can hold it then it could have been more powerful.
Third if you can't release in your own time then you can't aim.
Cavalry charging pikes head on instead of flanking.
I can't imagine cavalry charing pikemen at all, nevermind fully aware, fully formed, braced formations frontally, what the actual fuck?
No doubt there are countless other crimes against humanity being committed by film and television creators but these complaints will do for now.
It depends on the story creator. Has he made it on purpose to be accurate as possible? Then if so yes race's should be kept to the accuracy. It would be the same if was Japanese story based way back when they were all divided and fighting each other with swords, welp that one guy got his hands on guns by us by a ship wreck but obviously there was no white people their at that time or black people.
So for them to be in a story based on that time setting it's just daft as hell.
In works of pure fiction and grand embellishments on historical events, i don’t care. But if you’re trying to convey “realism” even if it’s fiction, you can’t have a caucasian Jesus of Nazareth! Ell oh ell!
It’s interesting how the haters overlook this one in their arguments, methinks.
I'm pretty sure most white people don't care if Jesus is depicted as being middle eastern because that's where he was born lol. But I find some Jewish and Lebanese people can look similar to southern Europeans at times.
Actually, my point is that Jesus was depicted as caucasian for centuries and nobody complained about “race swapping” before. Let a few people of color portray popular white FICTIONAL characters and the snowflakes lose their GD minds! Ell oh ell!
Fair enough, but I think that has a lot to do with white people back then never seeing a non-white person before, so it was hard to think of people who looked different to them (or even know that non-white people existed or that not everyone is white looking) on top of some middle eastern people being able to resemble southern Europeans, so it wasn't as crazy a difference or change like if Jesus was depicted as east Asian or African.
If some Jewish or Lebanese people could look similar to Romans, I could see Romans depicting Jesus like them, and central Europeans looked similar to southern Europeans but less like Jewish or Lebanese people but never seen one before, so I could see them making Jesus more ''white'' as time went on and not complaining about it due to lack of knowledge or awareness.
Caucasians historically are colonizers. They’ve seen all races and know the difference. I might buy that the educated race swapped Jesus in order to garner more followers among the ignorant. But you don’t just lose information in a generation or two. It was deliberate misinformation or willful ignorance, but it wasn’t just blissful ignorance.
How many people of color do you think the average European in the middle of Europe from the year 0 to 1600, in places such as France, Ireland, Germany, Norway, Poland etc have seen in their lives? I can understand the average southern Europeans living in Spain, Italy, Greece, Balkans had more contact with middle eastern people in some centuries but not those in several other European countries in lots if not all centuries. Even the coutries where the average white person had more contact with non white people, those countries also went centuries without having average white people seing non white people.
If we are talking many centuries of the typical white person never seeing non-white people and in some European countries most if not all of the centuries (in the period I put in), I think my theory holds ground.
It’s not “the average people” who carry and pass on information though. The travelers, documentarians, artists, philosophers and educators do that. The average person GETS information from those people. That is where the swap takes place. The leaders of thought, the “progressives”, are the ones who convinced others that native Americans were violent savages and needed to be culled. Not Joe Prairie just trying to farm and raise livestock. That’s why, like i said, information can be left out deliberately, but it’s not just lost to time, a cataclysmic event wiping out an entire people or generation of people notwithstanding obviously. This has been true ever since we developed the written word.
But this goes back to some Jewish or Lebanese that could look similar to southern Europeans, they (white people) are most likely going to depict Jesus to look like the middle easterners that looked more southern European than the average person living in the middle east.
Some artists would base their art are the ones who made Jesus look more southern European looking than your typical or average middle easterner because it was more familiar to them and the average European, thus making the depiction of Jesus whiter as time went on in more northern regions, with other artists getting inspired by those works. The average European would not be aware of this.
I understand what you’re trying to say, i simply can’t agree. As i said, Caucasians are notorious colonizers. They KNEW the differences between peoples and still conquered and enslaved almost exclusively non-whites. White slavery DID happen, but it was rare and white-on-white slavery was more so. Historical “fact” is funny that way. I wasn’t there, and neither were you. We have to decide what information we have best reconciles with other information and our experiences. My experiences suggest that white colonizers were invested in race-swapping Jesus of Nazareth. Either yours suggest otherwise or you’re comfortable playing “devil’s advocate”. It’s all good either way. We simply disagree and you haven’t provided enough new information to change my mind. Neither did i do similarly for you. It is what it is.
Ok, lets agree to disagree.
NOICE!!! How often does that happen?
Not often nowadays haha.
In general I don't care. It has everything to do with me losing interest in movies and shows over the last few years. The odd movie or show might catch my interest. But that interest is fleeting at best. Most of the time I don't even end up watching them. So if you want to make a medieval movie with race and sex swapped characters, do it.
Blacks should come up with their own characters and make their own movies for them to be cast in. Rather than stealing Whites cultures, history and fiction, makes them look dumb.
Instead of blackface'ing ariel they could have invented their own black mermaid.
Instead of making superman black, they could invent... oh wait luke cage already exists, they can do it, they're just lazy.
You're talking about "Rings of Power"?
You can do it if you do it correctly - make it have sense from a logical point of view, create some lore about it etc. Not like in this fanfic, where you have little autochtonic villages , that has, I guess, 500 inhabitants, and you have a few races of Hobbits living together.
European mythology, yes, white unless there is a cause for an immigration, travel or foreign slave. I would also assume in a made up fantasy that melanin pigment is a thing, and for areas without much of mix cultures and travels, specific skin color is normal.
I’m all for moral consistency. If it is not right for a white person to play someone of a different race, it’s not right the other way around.
I think in medieval fantasy movies it doesn't matter, but in more realistic ones, whatever region the movie takes place in should have mostly the people from that region, with a few outside races as travelers/immigrants/scholars/traders.
If it is based on European mythology, etc. then yes, they should be all White, but if they travel to another land, then there could be other types of people.
Why should everyone be white in a fantasy world? Lol
If it was a fantasy movie based specifically on European mythology and folklore?
If it was a fantasy movie based specifically on African mythology and folklore, if there were any white actors in it, is it a deal breaker whether you would watch it or like it?
Lol, anyone who is worried about the skin colour of a *fantasy* character has to be the biggest loser imaginable.
Ok well I prefer elves to be white in a movie/show and I think it's a better business move to do so.
I guess everyone who doesn't want black panther or a pagan African god to be played by someone who looks like Travis Flimmel in a movie most also be a huge loser too.
Why do you care so much about the amount of melanin in an actor playing an *elf*. That’s so childish. There is no better word than childish.
Why wouldn't I care? I don't think its childish at all. Sorry but it just doesn't look or feel right for an elf which comes from Germanic mythology to look like an African. Because elves come from northern European mythology and folklore it only makes sense that they look Caucasian. Race is more than just melanin levels.
Would it look right to you if a pagan African god or black panther was played by actor Travis Fimmel in a movie or show? How this isn't common sense to some people is beyond me. How would black people feel? Would you react the same way to them, calling them childish and losers if they had an issue with it? If they complained about Travis Fimmel playing such a role in a movie or show, me as a white man would not complain about the backlash, I would not be offended, and I would agree with the black people that would not want a white actor playing such a role in the movie.
People who are in the entertainment industry need to make money, and I think they should care about their audience if they want to make money and be succesful, because these kinds of choices do have a big impact on whether a significant amount of people would even consider watching it or liking the movie. These things matter big in business.
lol, that's the most childish thing I've ever heard... seriously you think an fantasy elf having darker skin is an issue, you're a child. That's just such a non-issue... honestly I think if this bothers you, you need to look inside yourself to see if there is any racism in there, cause I think there is.
How about I change some iconic nonwhite characters to being white instead? Chun-Li from Street fighter to being a white girl adopted by shaolin monks, since she's a fictional character and because in the anime movie street fighter 2 she looked white. She would look better and prettier this way in my opinion. Let's change Blade the vampire from a black guy to a white guy since he's a fictional character.
And let's change your precious Zelda into an African elf girl because she's a fictional character. You're the childish one who doesn't know what common sense is. Maybe you have an issue with white people? Or if you're white, you have some white guilt or self-hatred?
You avoided answering the reverse scenarios twice in my questions and continue to say that complaining about white mythology fantasy characters not being white is childish, but you don't want to call the opposite example for black people childish, why is that?
lol, it's a fantasy character! I don't care what actor plays it, it's a childish video game character! Grow up! I honestly think you are racist, no grown adult cares what an *elf* looks like without some serious problems.
Funny people like you had an issue when Johhny Depp played a fictional native American character in the Lone Ranger movie. You just hate white people admit it.
Are the black people who would take issue with race swapping fictional or mythological black characters racist, losers and childish in the reverse scenarios? Still waiting for an answer.
You're a grown adult man talking about what an *elf* looks like. How is that not immature? Frankly you can't be that childish to care about it, you have to be a racist. No other adult would care what an *elf* looks like unless they have something else going on.
I'll answer your question, I don't care what actor plays what fictional character. It's fiction. It's an elf. Grow up. Seriously, you're being a child.
Are the black people who would take issue with race swapping fictional or mythological black characters racist, losers and childish in the reverse scenarios? Still waiting for an answer.
Most adults would think an African looking elf looks dumb and would not watch that movie or show.
Lol most adults wouldn’t care what an elf looks like, it’s a fantasy made up character! Only extremely immature man-children care what skin color an elf has lol.
You don’t understand the examples you gave and why it was controversial that say Johnny Depp played an indigenous person. The issue is he took a job away from an indigenous actor (who have been discriminated against), it wasn’t because of the accuracy of the skin color!!
Is there anything sadder than a grown man arguing on the internet about the skin color of an elf on tv? That’s rock bottom.
Yes, they do care actually and that is reality. For example, just look at the dislike ratio of them race swapping the fictional character of ariel the little mermaid. White mythology and folklore are for white people. Any non white actor that portrays an elf in a European medieval fantasy movie/show/video game etc based on European folklore and mythology took the job of a white person. African looking elves look stupid, elves come from northern European (Germanic) mythology and folklore. They are supernatural beautiful white people.
Are the black people who would take issue with race swapping fictional or mythological black characters racist, losers and childish in the reverse scenarios? Still waiting for an answer.
Lol. Give it up. Anyone who thinks the skin color of a fictional character is an incredibly childish loser. The valid concern comes from taking jobs from discriminated groups. But as for color of skin, only extremely immature losers who spend hours arguing on the internet care. They need to grow up. And frankly they are probably racist.
I would love to see you produce a movie with a massive budget, a medieval fantasy, and you decide to include a couple of black actors to play elves for diversity and watch it flop badly. Cause most people think African looking elves look dumb and would not want to see those movies or shows.
As for this question that you tried to dodge by claiming that the reason, they (black people) would be angry about a white actor playing a mythological or fictional black character is because of them taking the job of a person of color (black person) who have previously been discriminated against:
(Are the black people who would take issue with race swapping fictional or mythological black characters racist, losers and childish in the reverse scenarios? Still waiting for an answer.)
Do you honestly believe that the main reason for them having an issue with it is due to taking someone's job from a person of color (black person) that were previously discriminated against instead of not having the proper race playing the role? Laughable. It would be because they would not be BLACK, that would be the main reason why they would have an issue with it, it would have to do with the RACE of the actor playing the fictional or mythological character. Admit it. You have no concept of common sense at all, or you badly don't want to admit that I am right because you have a problem with white people.
The discrimination argument is not even relevant but because you pulled that one out of your a. ss let me give my take on it.
White people are discriminated against, some white people don't get jobs due to simply being straight white males because some companies want to hire minorities for diversity reasons instead of choosing the ones being more qualified for the job. For a movie, the ones qualified to play white characters are white people, and the ones qualified to play black characters are black people, fictional or mythological.
*So, I ask again: *Are the black people who would take issue with race swapping fictional or mythological black characters sad, racist, losers and childish in the reverse scenarios? Still waiting for an answer. * This is a Yes or No answer. Don't say *everyone who thinks that way* I want you to say specifically that Black people who think that way or would take issue with it with the reason being from *race* not *historical discrimination* are sad, racist, childish and the biggest losers.
If you have a double standard, it's because you have a problem with white people specifically. White and black people would take issue with race swapping for the same reason, not for it being about ''discrimination'' or historical ''discrimination''.
Pull that stuff for fictional black characters in a movie and ask what black people think? See if their main issue is ''historical discrimination'' for not having a black actor play the of a fictional or mythological black character. So, you don't try and sneak out of it, how about being a race swapped animation instead, no actor is there physically, the race of the voice actor is not present, only the race of the character in the animation was swapped in a movie that was either based on books or that it's a remake of a previous animated movie. For example, it can be a 2d or 3d animation ex Shreck, Beowulf, Little Mermaid, a video game etc. Let's see if you try to weasel your way out of that one. by the way Race is more than just skin color for your information.
When have I ever said a double standard. I don't care what color skin ANY fantasy character has. They are made up. They are not real. And frankly the idea that I'm talking to a grown man about fairy tale fantasy creature skin color is too much for me. It's pathetic. A grown man upset about the skin color of the littler mermaid? Please don't respond. I can't stand talking to racists.
Read my three consecutive replies and answer that question or don't bother replying. You don't want to say specifically that Black people who would take issue with race swapping black fictional or mythological characters (black fictional or mythological characters played by white actors) with the reason being from *race* not *historical discrimination* are sad, racist, childish and the biggest losers, because you have a double standard due to you having a problem with white people. You're ok with all the other races having an issue with it but not white people. Unless of course you prove that you don't have a double standard.
Mediaeval world was quite diverse. I don't really care much there is a couple of black people in house of dragons, I never thought too much about it when watching.
Hate to burst your bubble there were Moors in Medieval Spain.
And Morgan Freeman was great in Robin Hood: prince of thieves. I couldn't imagine that movie without him.
*Not talking about realistic historical settings * did you read that part? I know moors controlled most of Spain for centuries. What I'm referring to, is if they made a medieval movie about eastern Europeans fighting Tatar raiders (non-whites), and one of the eastern European characters was sub-Sahara African or Samoan for example.
Depends how good the story is, how good the actors are.
Eastern Europeans fighting Tatars would be a realistic setting and having non whites (east-Asians) in the movie is realistic to play the role of Tatars, but it would not be realistic for non-white actors to portray eastern Europeans, is what I'm getting at.
It is not realistic for specific *races* to play certain parts or to be in a movie when there were none of that specific race at that place in time or in that setting, or to race swap certain white characters.
Yes. Huge deal breaker. I hate that crap.
No that racist
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