No bikinis allowed in youth group?

[HeartofDarkness]

So my youth group has this rule that the girls aren't allowed to wear bikinis for any water events with the youth group. However, when we hangout together outside youth group, they do wear them when we go swimming. Guys and girls, tell me why this should not be a rule for a church youth group. Or tell my there should be a rule

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

For that matter, if the church truly followed the bible, your groups would be segregated by gender, Neither boys or girls should wear anything that reveals above the knee, above the elbow, and below the collar bone. In Judaism, we call it Tznuit. The rules can be found in

If you understand Biblical Tznuit, you would unerstand that the rules apply TO BOTH MALES AND FEMALES. It is improper to show flesh above the knee, above the elbow and below the collarbone unless you are married to the person that sees that much of you. However, if you are in company of others of like gender, the rules are not as strict. These principles can be found in Leviticus. However, the western christian movement read it, but do not adhere to it... It is a shame, when Yeshuah (Jesus) strictly said at the beginning of the Sermon on the mount, that NOT UNTIL THE END OF TIME SHALL ONE JOT OR TITTLE IN NO WISE BE STRICKEN FROM THE LAW. Leviticus is the law. And No christian follow it.

Just some FYI...

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

link

link

Read all 4 pages of this link

I believe you should read all, and draw upon your own conclusions.

[HeartofDarkness]

More FYI I don't follow the Bible I follow Jesus

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

If you followed "Jesus" (real name Yeshuah, "Jesus" is a mistranslation), You sho uld know that JESUS SAID, (from Matthew 5:17 until 5:20) that YOU are to follow the laws OF JUDAISM. Yeshuah was a radical Jewish Rabbi. "Jesus" said in verse 18: " For truly I tell you,until heaven and earth disappear,not the smallest letter,not the least stroke of a pen,will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Furthermore, in order to "Follow Jesus" you must abide in his teachings, you CANNOT FOLLOW IF YOU DO NOT ABIDE IN HIS TEACHINGS. Do the correct thing, stop being indoctrinated by people, and read the bible for yourself. If anything, you will learn what it really means to "Follow Jesus." For what you know, you only follow what is told to you as a blind sheep

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

link

Don't be a sheep, "follow Jesus" correctly. The average Christian follow their belief, not knowing or understanding what they believe.

I have a question for you... Do you believe in what you do because you are convinced yourself, or is it that your parents drag you to church, and it is all that you know? If. You are convinced, prove it.

[armyguy176]

is this a serious question? bikinis are very revealing, why WOULD a church allow that?

[HeartofDarkness]

I don't know why would a church keep from letting us show off the creators image?

[armyguy176]

you can show off the creators image just fine without giving all the boys hardons

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Because immodesty is against the teachings.

[CeepSmiling]

Your youth group is religious right? For religious organizations, modesty is very important. Conservation is believed to be an attribute of a virtuous woman. I think it's a good idea really. Here's a nice quote: "Dressing immodestly is like rolling in manure. Yes, you will get attention. But mostly from pigs." This is not meant as an insulting comment, but it is definitely true. The way you dress, and how much of yourself you show will attract certain kinds of guys.

If you group is not religious, the same goes. But then again, maybe your leaders just don't want the girls to be provocative and create more members for the youth group. You guys are enough!

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

+1 from me.

Modesty should go both ways though. In my beliefs, it is improper for a man to bare his chest to a woman he is not married to. It is written in the bible. It is written in the Torah. I practice Judaism. I have a keen understanding in Christianity, because I converted from Christianity. The point is, if you read my answer, Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, and spoke of conversion to Judaism. Likewise, the laws of Judaism are to be upheld. Modesty for men and women are LAW.

[CeepSmiling]

I completely agree. The problem is, once someone is given a certain freedom they won't like it taken away. Good luck telling other guys to put their shirt back on :( lol

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Not unless someone makes a stink about it... I believe in absolute equality, and I am cynical with it. If I were a law maker, provided the vast majority of voters are religious, I would put into law proposal (letter) one or 2... one would be women have equal right to bare chest publicly. If that falls, by default, it would be illegal for a man to bare his. It solves one problem. Creates a new one, but like smoking bans, people would get used to it... LOL

[CeepSmiling]

I don't know about that. Exactly how would you uphold that law? It would be like banning alcohol. If you look at history, that didn't go so well. Can you imagine the difficulty of keeping people in line. I believe laws should be there TO PROTECT. It may be inconsiderate and ignorant but it doesn't cause actual damage. I'm for All Equality also though. :)

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

That is the issue with ordinance and law... Humans are inherently rebellious by nature. If there is one person to claim they never broken a law, You shall see a liar. However, there are laws made only to prove a point. Take the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. You have the 13th amendment that guaranteed freedom to slaves. The 14th amendment was put in place to prove a point. Well, this law would be in place to prove a point. Equality amongst the genders. Modesty goes both ways.

[CeepSmiling]

So it would be more of a declaration or an addition to an amendment than an actual law?

[snowboardergirl]

Some people are quite sensitive about being modest. I don't find any problem showing stomach, I mean it isn't like they are going topless. It's just a way to meet halfway because everyone has different views on those things, so they have to come to a "draw" of sorts to make people happy. That's how it comes across to me when ever I hear about it.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

According to church doctrine, a woman showing her stomach is just as based as showing breasts. If Christians read their bible, it is just as bad for a man to bare his chest. Biblical modesty is not just for women, it applies to men as well.

[crookthings]

Youth group is Christian-based, and Christians tend to be pro-modesty and "cover up your sinful bodies!" and whatnot.

I don't think it should be a rule because, well, it's silly. It assumes that a girl in a bikini is inherently sexual, so it was probably developed out of fear that all of the guys would get boners :P

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

WRONG! It was made to keep the people of G_D above base instincts, AND IT WAS LAW APPLIED TO BOTH SEXES EQUALLY. Europeans and their (lack of) sensibilities in the, early Euro-Christian time period (more than 1500 years ago), OVERLOOKED THE TEACHINGS OF "Jesus" and made their own rules, when "Jesus" himself said, "In no wise not one letter of the law (of Judaism) be evolved, even unto the end of time, when all is fulfilled." According to "Jesus", Christians should follow the laws of Judaism.

[crookthings]

No I know that's not what the scripture says, I'm saying it's what some Christians believe/misunderstand. I didn't say anything about the Bible.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

I was taking that from the direct translation. The KJV is misconceived and a bad translation of a bad translation. I mentioned "exsolved" instead of "evolved"... Considering I MISUSED THAT WORD, what was meant was "omitted". Darn ANDROID mistook my words. I use voice in order to type. I am a truck driver these days, and I can not text and drive. I use my phone to go on this site.

[selfishstars]

When I was a teenager, I used to go to a church-based youth group. A lot of the messages we received included that we should be modest and that we should "look out for our brothers in Christ" by not causing them to sin (lust after us or be tempted by us).

That's generally the reason behind it, but that doesn't mean that everyone agrees with or follows what the church teaches.

[HeartofDarkness]

Not most people in my youth group follow that rule outside church. And you are not responsible for making us sin by lust. We don't always choose not to resist the temptation

[selfishstars]

You're certainly right.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

I respectfully diagree. It is written in the law in the bible, and even Jesus himself said the law is not void, even unto the end of time. If one is to follow a religious belief, follow it to completion, or do not follow at all, I say. But not to be rude, I just wanted to point that out.

[selfishstars]

I'm not sure if you're replying to me or the QA.

I'm an atheist, so I don't really care what's written in the Bible. I agree with the QA that a lot of people don't follow the rules that their religion teaches them, and I don't believe that I am responsible for someone else's "sins". While I understand the sentiment, the way that it is taught in many churches is that it is women's responsibility to prevent men from falling into temptation/lust and I feel that that shifts responsibility away

[selfishstars]

from men. This belief goes further than just lust, but also leads to a harsher view of sexual women---basically, if two people have sex, the woman is seen to be the "bad" one, since she should be the "gatekeeper" and have prevented the man from being able to act on his sexual desires. This view completely ignores the fact that women are sexual beings and have sexual desires too, or at least, makes it seem that male sexual desires are normal, but female sexual desires are abnormal.

[selfishstars]

And essentially, this is the same belief that leads many Muslim women to be expected to wear hijab or burqa. Yes, it's taken to a more "extreme" level than Christians take it, but the sentiment is the same.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

The responsibility I Judaism, WHAT SUPPOSED TO BE THE BASIS OF CHRISTIANITY, is that Tznuit is the responsibility of BOTH sexes.

It is directed at both, BTW.

According to That same book that is terribly mistranslated, and christions fail to read, unless their pastors instructs them to read (I read my Torrah almost daily), In the book of Leviticus, he rules of modesty applies to BOTH SEXES. Men are NOT ALLOWED TO BARE THEIR CHEST at a woman THEY ARE NOT MARRIED TO. Both sexes are required

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

to show no skin above the knees, show no skin above the elbows, show no skin below the collarbone, the crown of the head is to be covered. Women often wear some sort of scarf and hats are acceptable (These days, because before they weren't... I am neutral) In the case of men, if a hat can no be worn, the Yarmulke (That small disk-like hat, Jews wear) is acceptable.

In Judaism, BOTH SEXES ARE VIEWED BADLY IN UNCONVENTIONAL (unmarried) SEX ACTS. Male dominance in Islam and Christianity,

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

makes it seem otherwise. In fact, you commented, "same belief that leads many Muslim women to be expected to wear hijab or burqa." Sorry, you misunderstand their position. IN SOME SOCIETIES IT IS FORCED. However, If you read the Q'ran or know the truth of the Hijab, In 100% of free societies and 100% of liberal Islamic societies, 90% of the women CHOOSE to wear the Hijab. In fact, there are Jewish women that CHOOSE burqa-like garments.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Just read my Answer below:

[selfishstars]

First, I'm aware that it is a choice for many Muslim women---but for many others it isn't (if you would face negative consequences for not wearing it, it is no longer a free choice).

What is taught and what is practiced is more important, in my opinion, than what the scriptures actually say. If men and women are treated equally in this regard in Judaism, that's great. But it's not (at least not in my experience) treated equally in Christianity, and it doesn't seem to be treated equally in

[selfishstars]

Islam (I claim no expertise in Islam, though it seems that modesty is expected in men, but not to the same extent as for women; and women are judged more harshly for "unconventional sex acts").

[selfishstars]

Just to clarify, I see what is taught/practiced as more important than what is actually in the scriptures because what the scriptures say in religions that I don't practice doesn't matter to me personally, but the effect that the actual practice has on people/the message it gives to people has real-world consequences.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

What is taught/practiced is supposed to be of the scripture. If it is not, then, you are not truthfully following what you believe, unless your belief is not of the scripture itself. Then it is a paradox, or a contradiction of one's own faith: "How could someone claim to follow a belief, when the doctrine of the belief is not followed?" It is like trying to play baseball without knowing the rules at all, and attempting to make your own rules in the middle of an official game. It don't work.

[selfishstars]

I don't disagree, but frankly, I'm glad that a lot of people don't follow everything that's written in their holy text/don't take their holy text literally.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

In Judaism not all is literal, however, LAWS ARE LITERAL. If you break a law, the punishment should be rendered. For male and female equally. For instance, It is against the LAWS of Judaism for young male and females to commingle unless they are accompanied by parents, AND THEY ARE BETROTHED. Otherwise, unmarried males and females must be segregated, unless they are blood related. Second cousins, are not viewed as blood related. (In the old days, if 2 generations separate, they could marry).

[DiamondKutt]

"Modesty". I don't think it should be a rule because I'm sure lots of the guys may have six-packs or whatever & aren't forced to wear a shirt, & are allowed to wear speedos where girls can clearly see a bulge.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

If they follow their bible, they should know that it is immoral for a man to show more than the bottom part of his shins, more than his forearms, and above the collarbone, equally as it is for a woman. People have the wrong impression that modesty is for women alone.

[upsyndrome]

Let's burn our bras and that church to show our rebellion! rawr

[ambertaylor]

I can see why this is a rule because they don't want any resemblance of sexuality within an activity organised by the church.

[may04]

Because anything with even the smallest hint of sexuality is frowned upon in the church, there's really no good reason though.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

There is a good reason, sexuality detracts from the true message of religious functions. In the bible, it is said that the followers of G_D should be modest, both men and women, in order to separate themselves from the sins of the world and to not abide in things that includes lust and covetous nature. It is against the commandments to covet a neighbor's possessions, including their spouse. Even if there is no spouse, there should be no covetous intent toward another person.

[Anonymous]

Temptation for the boys?

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Both ways... For that matter, it is biblically forbidden for a man to bare his chest, if you actually read it in Leviticus...

[Opinion Owner]

Uh, I guess. I don't read the bible. A bare chest doesn't tempt women the way bare breasts do for men.

[Jinmetsu_Rasetsu]

Contrary. Women are more visually sexual than you know. Ask a woman that WOULD ACTUALLY tell you the truth. Women are just coy with it, and are more secretive about it.

[Opinion Owner]

A male is much more likely to act on it than a woman. Your religion sucks.

[MrItalack]

Because churches are stupid. That's why.