Is it true that many men hate feminists? Also prefer submissive women?

[Anonymous]

Ive noticed a lot of questions on here lately about that? Men even complaining about feminism saying it has done nothing for the world. Coming from my background, that seems really difficult to understand how someone could say that. I'm a feminist and maybe its where I live or something but I don't know many people who just hate me for being a feminist. I'm actually really into women's rights activism and I've been involved with feminist organizations. Part of my work in school is about gender studies and sexuality which tend to cross paths with topics on feminism vs traditional ideas on masculinity and femininity. My mom has done a lot of feminist activism work since she was a young adult, including work abroad in countries where there's still a heavy struggle for basic rights for women. I'm not shy about it, I talk about it a lot in real life because its something I care about and it has been such a big part of my life, and most importantly I'm a woman, and I've never had problems with guys here. So have you all noticed this where you live - a very anti-feminist attitude or is it mainly an online thing? I could see how people of a certain nature would tend to meet online and it would just seem like they're everywhere but they might not be. Although I could also see this being popular in areas where conservative ideas are more popular than they are here.

Seems like the guys here prefer more traditional, submissive women instead of feminist women who are often much less submissive in everyday life? And guys could you tell me why it is you prefer more submissive women? I'm not here to judge the hell out of you, I already understand we disagree vehemently, I'm just asking a question.

[markml]

I like strong independent women, but not "feminists". I'm actually not extremely attracted to women who are too submissive.

What is the difference?

Well, to me, the feminist movement is all about "war between the sexes", which leads to no good in society.

In general, I think that both sexes need to learn how to compromise more with each other, rather than just make demands of each other!

That's also the main reason I'm not a liberal. I grew up surrounded by liberals, and the vast majority of them are very hypocritical self-centered people. They would preach about what they think of other people, but they would seldom actually walk a mile in someone else's shoes. They're fighting so much that they lose sight of the big picture, which is that every human being has their own individual flaws. A lot of men suck. So do a lot of women. As long as you're not analyzing yourself, you can think really bad things about a lot of other people. When you see your own flaws, you realize nothing is black and white and a better goal than "demanding your rights" is to create peace and harmony in society. That's what liberals after all are supposed to stand for, but they seldom actually do.

Feminists in particular tend to have a really skewed perception of history. There's some really messed up stuff happening to women in other parts of the world right now, but you can't even compare that to America. Even in the 1600's, American women had more freedom than women do today in the Middle East. The liberal perspective is that everything is an evolution, but that's not true! American women have ALWAYS been more independent than the rest of the world (except maybe certain parts of northern Europe), and that's because our culture is very different. Independence is in-grained in the values of both men and women here, and maybe once you realize that, you'll feel less scared about losing it?

Truth is when you look at cultures where women have less independence, if you look closely, you'll see that a lot of times, the men also have less independence. It just may not be obvious to you because you're not focusing on it, but I meet many men who are glad to be gone from those countries.

I'm not saying we should go back to the 1600's. Society has changed, in some ways for the better, in some ways for the worse. Things are just different. And I do think there wasn't any real reason for women to fight men back then, and there isn't any reason for women to fight men today. Women were never slaves. Certainly not in American society. And in some ways, women today are less independent than they were in the past...

You know, we all but killed the idea of "feminine modesty" because we thought it was too repressive. And so today, you have all these girls obsessed over looking like Victoria Secret models!

Is that more freedom? You tell me. People are so neurotic today. Maybe gender roles weren't so bad. You can embrace them without being a Stepford Wife or losing your identity.

[sa230e]

I actually used to be one of those feminist hating guys. But then again I was pretty bitter and angry in general. I'm honestly not really sure any more of what caused me to be like that. I wasn't influenced, I sort of developed these ideas on my own.

If I had to guess, it probably came from certain negative thinking patterns I had at the time. I guess I felt helpless and disenfranchised at the time and the women's movement became a target to blame for the frustration I felt. I was also lonely and single and the rejection (real or perceived) I felt from women made me feel (irrationally) that they were conspiring against me.

When you're feeling like that it's easy to console yourself by seeing yourself as the victim and fantasize about being the only one who sees the truth. I lost my sense of identity and importance as a person so I tried to build up that sense of self worth by identifying with a group (men). I started thinking in black and white and us vs. them. I saw misandry everywhere but in truth I only let myself see what I was looking for.

I used to take an affront (real or perceived) against my gender as an affront to myself until I suddenly realized "now you know how the original feminists felt". I also realized that anti-feminist extremist and feminist extremism were two sides of the same coin. I was in a really dark place back then but I saw the light, fortunately.

Personally, I now generally sympathize with the feminist movement and even if I disagree, I still understand their concern. I used to see feminism as a big monolithic movement but really it's very denominational. There are many schools of though within it. There is of course an extreme segment who I don't endorse but I approve of feminism, on the whole.

I'm not looking for a servile or submissive woman. If anything I actually like bold, confident and empowered women. I don't have any problems getting along with feminist women.

[peace-love-couture]

Many self proclaimed "feminists" are indeed feminazi's not feminists and they take feminism too far.It's never a bad thing to be passionate about something,but if it shouldn't consume your life and a lot of "feminists" have the habit of relating everything and anything back to being sexist.

I'm from the south,we aren't all gung ho on complaining about every single "right" for everyone.

[gravygirl]

I've certainly known guys who would never be with a self-identifying feminist, but they weren't guys any girl should worry about not pleasing. Things are better for us than they used to be. Why would any girl care about guys who want to keep us down?

[KillerrMike]

Men have never "wanted to keep you down". Contrary to feminist ideology, the men and women are not enemies of each other.

[gravygirl]

You are wrong. I have certainly known men who wanted to keep women down. Are you really claiming that they don't exist?

[Asker]

he doesn't acknowledge that there has been a patriarchial system that benefits from the oppression of women. ignorance is bliss to him. he even thinks feminism is based on the hatred of men. of course because responding to sexual abuse and rape, fighting for civil rights in society, and wanting to be seen as equal human beings is equivalent to hatred. of course.

[Asker]

*patriarchal

[KillerrMike]

There are women who hate men, too -- yet men don't go bellowing on about how women somehow "oppress" them. When I say men, I mean all men collectively. A small percentage of misogynists do not represent an entire population's opinion and behaviour.

I'd really like to see any evidence of a "patriarchy" You honestly think VAWA is a legitimate response to sexual abuse? A woman's word is all that's needed to convict a man of rape in some cases -- a lot of women falsely accuse with no consequence

[rocksongwriter]

I agree with KillerrMike's first statement. Sure, you might be able to name one or two guys you know that have wanted to keep women down, but 99% of men do not.

[Anonymous]

Actually most guys are cool with feminists. Just try to beware of rednecks. THey're the lowest form of life you could ever meet! They are mostly women haters and very abusive. They should be fairly easy to spot though; big mouths and small d***s

[tex151]

Rednecks are the lowest form of life really, and why is that? Mostly women haters where is your proof, I know lots of rednecks and they love women. Your mistaken for gang bangers name one good thing they do, exactly nothing, they ruin society, most are low lifes, in and out of prison, they beat women, shoot women and other people because someone was on their turf or wore the wrong color shirt.

[Opinion Owner]

It's OK tex, don't have a sh!t fit. Aren't you guys seceding from the rest of the country? Keep your chin up, just think your own country, chastity belts, slavery, live televised executions. LIfe will be perfect. BTW When are you guys going?

[Brando]

I have no problem with feminism. But what I do have a problem with is when women take it too far and become hostile to men. I never have done any of the things that feminism claims men do. If I don't know a woman, then I especially haven't wronged her in any way. I also stand up for myself when things are assumed about me that aren't true, simply because someone is simple minded enough to categorize and generalize me based off their own experiences. Actually, a lot of self-proclaimed feminists that I've met before seemed to only have identified with feminism because of some thought they had, rather than an actual experience. "It *seems* like a lot of men treat women badly, so I'm going to take up the fight against men" is what it seems to be. And lastly, when I voice my objections against them, that is seen as me trying to "put them back down"...get over yourself, I don't care about hardly anyone, man or woman. What makes them think I'm out to get them? A lot of popular feminism is irrational.

[KillerrMike]

In order to understand why men are attracted to submissive and docile type of women, you'll need to grasp evolutionary biology and physiology -- but forget about that for just a moment.

Feminism, even in the most general sense of the word, can be accurately described as the hatred of men. I'm sure you would hate someone if they explicitly and publicly made it known that they hate your gender and are actively trying to provide their gender with exclusive rights, while simultaneously stripping your gender of the few rights it already has.

I recently had a very interesting discussion with a feminist about why women should not be allowed to vote in America. My main premise can be briefly summed up as follows. Men in the U.S.A must sign up for selective service with the armed forces after they turn 18 years of age before they can become eligible to vote. Women do not have to do this, yet they are still eligible to vote. She could not counter that point, and I've yet to meet a woman who can.

I've been on this site a while and I've had a lot of fun tearing down the childish arguments of feminists. Go to my profile and check my past answers. I won't post links to specific questions here because my post might get removed for soliciting links.

An objective analysis of western culture will lead you to recognize that women currently have more rights than men, have been protected by men throughout history, and were never oppressed in any sense of the word.

[Asker]

you clearly have an ignorant view on feminism which is fine you're entitled to your ignorance. although,i think you have an extremely poor argument. why does signing up for armed forces mean you should be eligible to vote? that holds no weight as far as I'm concerned when it comes to voting in a democratic society. that would be an entirely different system. your position also assumes that no women sign up, regardless of if its required. would you grant the right to women who choose to sign up?

[Asker]

your understanding of history is anything but objective my dear. anyone looking at things objectively would see that women have been oppressed and deprived of their rights throughout our history and aside from our history, women are still being oppressed in many other cultures, and even ours to a certain extent. you clearly have a chip on your shoulder when you make comments about a womens rights movement being based on the hatred of men.

[KillerrMike]

The point is that men have extra responsibility that women do not, while no feminist has ever spoken up about getting rid of the draft, they only care about women being able to vote. On the contrary in the early 1900s when only a cetain few men could vote, other men were campaigning for EVERYONE to be able to vote, not just women.

You don't want to start with me. I suggest you go to the channel of youtube user manwomanmyth. Watch all of his videos. link

[KillerrMike]

Furthermore, I'd like to see any evidence you have of women being oppressed or stripped of any other rights besides something trivial like driving a car.

[KillerrMike]

This link should work. The video is entitled the myth of women's oppression.

[KillerrMike]

I really don't think there's anything close to a chip on my shoulder when I say that feminism is about the hatred of men, especially when I have actual evidence like this link to back up what I say.

I suggest you go back to wherever you came from and hide now.

[Asker]

lol I love it when ignorant people have unwarranted arrogance about them. its funny. I don't want to start with you? you haven't presented any intelligent points to me, and now you're sending me to a youtube channel, one based on heavy bias and explicit propaganda based on fiction no less? you must be joking right? I'm sorry but if you deny the actual fact that women have been oppressed and denied rights for most of our history, I can't really take you seriously.

[Asker]

you have already mentioned that we didn't have the right to vote, providing the demise of your own argument. logic would tell you that, if men were the ones who ultimately had the power to decide if we should be able to vote, and it took a hell of a long time to grant that right, that men in general were against the idea. no doubt that SOME men wanted women to be able to vote but if most men felt that way, there wouldn't have been such a struggle to reach actual legislation.

[Asker]

aside from that, oppression in education was a huge issue. it wasn't even seen as necessary for a woman to have higher education, to keep her in the place of wife and mother. there was a point it was even inconceivable that a woman could even get a college education, never mind one that was anywhere near the quality of the education a man could receive. There were labor laws prohibiting women from working past a certain amount of hours, past a certain time

[Asker]

to keep them from holding certain positions or laws prohibiting women from working jobs that required lifting of certain weights. more previsions to keep women out of more and more jobs. many stores would not offer independent credit cards to married women and there was heavy discrimination against women who werent married in purchasing property like cars and homes. women were actually prohibited (by men) from serving in the military for a period of time and then only allowed back as nurses.

[Asker]

obviously, abortion was another prohibition unless the mothers life was in danger. birth control was illegal at one time, a form of oppressing female sexuality. the message of female sexual liberation was opposed heavily. if a woman wanted to have sex, she would have to have children. forget about legal abortion as a way out either. this is essentially a way to trap women into marriage and roles of wife and mother, again.

[Asker]

i could go on and on. no babe, YOU don't want to go there with ME. I'm educated. I have no clue where you get your facts from (oh, youtube, that's right.) but I study history. anyone with a decent education in history, especially those of us who have a concentration on civil rights and social issues concerning gender and race, know that women have been oppressed and denied many rights and faced an overwhelming amount of discrimination in our history.

[Asker]

we have come a long way to now, and not at all at the gracious hands of male domination, but as a result of struggle and fighting for our rights. that's just in this climate. there's so much oppression going on in other parts of the world at the hands of men. if you think the only change in policy or social attitudes has been the right to "drive a car" then I honestly can't consider you an equal in this conversation.

[Asker]

you are entitled to our ignorance as I said before, but I'm not going to sit here and present the misconception that you are equipped with the same education as I am because you clearly arent. sending me to youtube...dude you must be crazy. get the f*** outta here.

[Asker]

and I can't speak for all feminists. no one feminist can. I'm not in favor of the draft. I think people should sign up only if they have an interest in it. however, our dominance as a nation is built on military power. essentially, that would weaken us tremendously and change things radically. I'm not about to sit here and say I think everyone should be required to sign up because there's no way in hell I'm going into the military.

[Asker]

men created the system darling. take your issues of draft and military power backing our reign up with them. you can't get upset because a group with specific interests isn't defending every single interest in the history of humanity. that's irrational. its also still a poor argument for the right to vote. requirement to sign up to the military doesn't mean you have "more responsiblity" in society either that's an incredibly strong statement.

[KillerrMike]

Nowhere in your condescending, gramatically mistake-littered anachrostic ramblings have you countered anything I've said. Out of all that emotionally-charged babbling, the only coherent point you brought up was that in the past, certain legislation barred women from entering specific professions.

What you claim to know about history is demonstrably wrong. Women were voting in new jersey as early as 1890. If not voting was oppression, then nearly EVERYONE was oppressed.

[KillerrMike]

You've made it obvious that you want men -- and only men -- to protect the nation with their lives. Your idea of equality is that women must enjoy freedom that only men must die to preserve. I sent you to youtube as there is more data there than I could possibly lay out here. You obviously haven't watched even a second of any of the videos I sent you to. I could send you to stanford or mit's youtube channel, but it's unlikely that you'll open your eyes to anything that contradicts what you say

[KillerrMike]

Very few schools had legislation in place prohibiting women from entering them. The issue was with the parents, who would rather place their bets on their sons rather than their daughters. You're comparing two completely different economic time periods where a miniscule amount of people were going to school at all.

You're throwing around the word oppression like you know what it means. Women were never tortured, gassed, hanged, burned alive or sold as slaves like other ethnic groups were.

[KillerrMike]

"requirement to sign up to the military doesn't mean you have 'more responsiblity' in society

In the event of war, the men will be responsible to go and fight, not the women. There's no getting around that. I've already told you that men have an unfair legal obligation to go to war while women do not. All you've been able to say in response is that "we need an army to protect us and we should make the men do it."

How is that equality?

[KillerrMike]

Furthermore, you make some bullsh*t claims about how the general public has any influence on legislation.

"if most men felt that way, there wouldn't have been such a struggle to reach actual legislation."

I don't think you're capable of comprehending this, but the opinions of average citizens play no role in the forming of legislation. A lot of people were against the death penalty for a very long time and a lot of people are against abortion today, yet that doesn't affect the law.

[KillerrMike]

Lastly, and most importantly, you ignore the hateful quotes of famous feminists. I tell you that feminism is thinly-veiled misandry and provide evidence for it, yet you turn away.

You're bringing up these privileges and labelling them as "rights" that women did not have, but at the same time you fail to realize that the majority of those employment legislations also applied to men.

[KillerrMike]

The points you bring up are not significant social issues, with the exception of labour laws. A social stigma or taboo towards a woman going to school is not oppression. You've been programmed into thinking that women are always the victims, yet you fail to realize that collectively, men have faced much worse plight than women in history. You have to be able to look at the other side of the coin here. Women have been the most protected and provided for social class in history.

[KillerrMike]

Those labor laws attest to it. Women were protected by legislation from enduring harsh physical labor that men had no protection from. Those types of laws were what lead to the health and safety standards and labor unions we have today. Female employees were the only ones who had that protection at the time. Your twisted view somehow looks at a law that prevents physical stress on women's bodies and sees it as oppression? You've got to be kidding me.

[KillerrMike]

I'm in engineering and history is not interesting to me, but I am aware of it. I'm not arguing what the historical facts are, but rather what they represent. Women have never had legal restrictions placed on them dictating who they can or can not have sex with, rather a law that banned contraception, which doesn't even come close to denial of human rights or oppression.

Men do not have a contraceptive pill, are they being denied rights by not having that researched, and suffering oppression?

[Anonymous]

My understanding of feminist, in part, is that they want equal rights. I get that. But socially speaking, they should undo the traditional setting of how men treat "ladies" without the chivery. Many men believe, like myself, that that should be part of the freedom you asked for. Like in GI Jane, the movie, when Jane wanted to be treated like the boys. Her commanding officer said, "Let's see if you want what you're going to get." Yes, it was very hard for her. She didn't have the same physical strength as the boys, but she got her "equality" in full.

And so such an issue was raised when the qualification standard for women in the fire department was lowered just to get them in. Equal rights? Not at that point. There were modifications done which upset a lot of people. The standard was such because a fire fighter needs to drag someone on his shoulder down a latter, that could be heavier than him. Most men are heavier than women, and physically stronger, yet the law went through and the qualification was lessen for just to let women in.

[Gregs]

I love feminists, if it wasn't for feminists I'd probably be tied down with a wife by now and working my ass off to support them. These days, I ride where I want on the bus without having to give my seat up, I either split the bill or have the girl pay when we go out and I don't have to do stupid sh*t like push the door open for every woman under the sun.

I would, never date a feminist tho. They are hypocritical when it comes to relationships and a lot of the feminists I met are heavy into S&M and are pretty much incapable of having the kind of relationship I'm looking for. I love feminine women and submissive women.

[faux_punk]

Femenism was needed back in the time when women had no rights but now all I see when I see feminist is a bunch of man - hating - bull - dykes who want to create double standards put themselves up above men rather then create an balance of right and wrong. That's not to say all feminist are that way and to the question asker I mean no offense because you seem like a very nice person. I'm just being honest about what I see feminism as it is today.

My last encounter with a feminist was at a convience store. I held the door open for her (like I do for everyone) and she started jumping my case because she "didn't need a man to hold the door open for her". So I slammed the door in her face.

on other encounters with feminist they allways seem to be aggressive to me for doing things of normal human behavior (man or woman) for instance if I saw an attractive woman and looked at her butt or her chest I would be called a pig with no respect for women.

[KindOfAGeek]

I have no problem with feminists or feminism in general, as long as feminism is interpreted to mean promoting gender equality (something that has been mostly attained here). I am definitely for complete equality, with the exception being where physical differences affect extremely important jobs (eg, women in general don't have as much upper body strength, and will have more trouble dragging people out of burning buildings if they try a career as a firewomen).

What I don't support is women who use feminism as a way of just being completely anti-men, and use it as an excuse to hate men and just act superior about it. Unfortunately there seems to be an increasing number of those these days.

[Anonymous]

I definitely don't like submissive clingy but I also don't like too independent and "feminists". I prefer a woman who feels secure and confident about their body. Who depends on me but can do things for herself. I want to feel like I'm needed not an ox so she can ride on. And I love a woman who is confident enough to realize we're different and that we both should respect each other for who we are not trying to be of my equal.

[Daniel375]

Most men prefer wives over business partners. We can make plenty of $$$ on our own so your income is of dubious value. We don't need you to be educated to have babies.

Just as you value us based on wealth and physical strength, we value you based on looks and skill in motherhood.

I dont find feminists appealing. A wife should be beautiful, magical, spiritual, domestically skilled, good with children, a good cook, know how to use a sewing machine, be very fashion conscious, keep her nails and hair current, keep a clean house, and be capable of educating and nursing children. I think it would be difficult for a feminist to meet these objectives as they ate counter to the objectives of feminism.

Not saying one way is superior. But I have need only of a traditional wife.

[Anonymous]

The word Feminist confuses people, or at least me, because I've heard it used in both the contexts of being equal genders and Women being superior. I prefer the former usage of the word, and do think that women should be treated equal as men.

[cyrus7]

Most guys are fine with LEGIT feminists, but almost all guys hate the feminazis that are just stupid.

[SmolSlav]

I find that most men have a deep misunderstanding what feminism is and what they believe.