Women are attracted to the top 10% of men. What do you think?

[Anonymous]

I think this video is a great watch. Although it doesn't explain the reasons behind male and female reproductive choices, it's very helpful in terms of explaining our behaviour towards each other. Although the explanation behind it is fairly intuitive: it takes a woman 9 months to grow a child, then a further at least fourteen years before it becomes independent, women can have a few children in their life, but men can have dozens. Hence women need to be choosy.
Although less obvious, I think that's still true today. Consider a man with many resources who has married twice, divorced twice and now has a girlfriend. First wife had two children, second had three, girlfriend has two. Each only has few, but collectively he has seven children! Naturally this is a very in-demand man because women are very careful in the assessment of who to reproduce with.

Anyway, let me know your opinion! I just love this evolutionary desire stuff I think it's really interesting.

[Levin]

Sure, the evolutionary explanation is legitimate to some degree. I'd say that women are wired slightly differently also. Men are more physical, women are more psychological. Consequently men are more go with the flow and less discriminatory, women take longer to warm up and are more 'stuck' in their head. Speaking in general and stereotypical terms, of course.

I do think some of the ideas extrapolated are potentially not based on very good data, if they're using tinder swiping and okcupid like preferences to deduce and overlay what women find attractive in real life. You could make the argument, as horrible as it is, that dating websites to some degree attract the dregs of society that find it difficult to find a mate. Also, in real life, attractiveness is not based on the basis of a few pictures and the scant information you can deduce from the profile. Men are generally less self aware and less able to reflect themselves well on such arenas.

I can't believe that women swipe positively on 15% of men and men 47% of women. How desperate are men? Are they actually going to want to meet 50% of women they see? Even men must have some standards. And 15% seems pretty high for women. Personally I probably swipe positively on around 5% of women. I don't think those are unreasonably high standards. I just see no point in swiping positively on someone that I still don't think I would like to meet. So swiping behaviour is invariably skewed. They're also reflective of the relative lack of power for men on those platforms. As funny as it sounds, those men would probably have far more chance and esteem if they approached women in real life. Online dating has to be underestimating their value because of how the numbers are far skewed in favour of women. I bet men outnumber men 10 to 1. Perhaps not that extreme, particularly on universal apps such as tinder, but maybe on some platforms.

So, basically, I behave like a woman =/

[Levin]

men outnumber women*

[Levin]

I also think people get caught up in biological and evolutionary explanation of things, because it is easy and obvious. There clearly are other forces at work, even if it not within the socially accepted framework of things. You can say women are hypergamous, the fact is, in real life, everybody is dating everybody, there's myriad relationships, and let's face it, many women are dating absolute trainwrecks. There's also something called 'love' and other intangibles. The fact is, those videos are coming from a certain perspective. Usually an American individualistic-materialistic one, and also, there's echoes and influences of the the embittered MGTOW movement.

[Asker]

Okay, some women are dating trainwrecks, but in my experience, even from an early age, hypergamy is definitely there for girls. It's not explicitly discussed, but it's something my mum and dad have conditioned me to do from a young age. This is the case with many, many girls. I think even today it's pretty logical. A girl who wants to have a family knows that having that family will be much easier if you're with someone who can support you, so you have the proper time to take care of people, cook etc.

[Levin]

Sure, I'm not saying hypergamy doesn't exist or even that it is not innate or inculcated. Although, then again, if you think about it, it is quite illogical since isn't the definition dating up? Why should you date above your own value, and won't this lead to disappointment given the numbers? Not saying it's wrong to, I'm just questioning out-loud. Didn't you say that your mother was traditional or Chinese (I could be making that up) so that might be influencing your experience.

Hypergamy is actually quite natural if you think about it. Most people are perhaps unconsciously looking to make up for their own shortfalls in a mating partner which is even more subtle than just being for resources. For example, you often find more reckless and go with the flow partners with very careful and reflective ones (they balance each other out). It's also natural to be enamoured and intrigued by people who can provide something that is extraordinary or glittering. The only thing I'd say is that there is usually an opportunity cost and a 'karma' in such things. ie one person may have a whole bunch of resources at your disposal, but may have myriad other shortfalls. Your mother may be impressed by this guy, but underneath the surface, he may be a cunt (or he may not be of necessity, just an example!).

[Levin]

In short, I'd say we make our own unhappiness.

[startingfitness]

Everyone kinda knows this is true. Back when we were in school, in a class with say 20 boys, only 1 or 2 boys are considered attractive and most girls would be dreaming over them. Sometimes you could have a whole class without any " hot males" and the girls would get annoyed or look at the older guys or boys of other classes.
In college, depending on what college you attend, there might be a group of athletes, artists or top academics that may have a large female following.
and its like this everywhere, except that the older we get the less obvious women make this.

Im sure this was how it originally was for humans before we evolved, and then at some point we developed more complex families and marriage systems. I think the men decided yeah screw this, we are all getting one ( and we are the stronger ones so the women didn't have a say in it probably).

But I think with the sexual revolution and society being a lot more catering towards women and women having more freedom of choice we are kinda going back to this level. mgtowers , men fed up with women and the existence of incels are symptoms of this happening.

[Asker]

Can you explain MGTOX and incel? I've heard these terms and I don't know what they mean. I'm very interested and have studied sexuality and sexual dynamics before if you're wondering why I'm so interested on the subject.

[startingfitness]

lol its okay I didn't know what incel meant either till a woman (I think on here) called me one.
Incel means involuntary celibate and it refers to men who want to have sex but can't find a partner. I think people like that although rare, have existed everywhere, but lately that number seems to have increased a lot.
Now they have made their own online communities and I think they have websites or forums where they talk to each other. They are known to be very toxic, but im sure there are also many who aren't toxic and don't associate with those groups.

Mgtow means men going their own way. This is a larger group of men who usally ( but maybe not alL) believe in red pill ideology and theories and are just fed up with society in general. Their issues are more about how society treats men unfairly and issues with women are a part of it. Mgtowers can be divorcees , men who have had bad experiences with women, or men who just randomly came to the group and agree with them. Mgtowers can also have relationships with women, or they choose not to. So its a bigger umbrella term, but mgtowers all believe in living life on their own terms and not on societies terms or to the way women want them to.

[startingfitness]

this is as far as I know about these terms. I don't personally associate myself with either. I only agree with red pill theories and I do sometimes consider living more of a mgtow type of life, with the way things are. Well ill have to wait and see what the future brings, with corona and all the things happening maybe it is possible to have a normal marriage, or maybe it gets worse I don't know.

[Asker]

MGTOW sounds fine. Living in your own way and not according to society sounds like a great out of box way to go. Though I think it may be a slightly hypocritical movement. I just read a post on here about mgtow wanting to replace women with robots... There's a huge difference between living on your own terms and being bitter for the rest of your life. Then again... most groups have the good, the bad and the ugly... so I won't judge it. Though I really disrespect angry, bitter people, I think we're all responsible for making our luck and holding ourselves accountable.

Ahhh that's what incel means... like I said before I have very little respect for people who are angry and bitter, so I would dislike people who are bitter over that. Do you know if incels is just older male virgins? Or are there female ones as well? Also is there an age cut off point? Like must be over 40 or over 50?

[Asker]

Oh so is mgtow anti marriage? Interesting... but also sad for me, I've always been very family oriented.

[startingfitness]

that's very open minded of you , most women and some men just immediately dislike mgtow, I don't think most really know what it means or can't sympathize. and since mgtow is a large umbrella term , I think you are right there are many different men there, maybe incels could also consider themselves mgtow as well as men who otherwise dislike women to the extend of wanting robots and stuff.

I have never liked the concept of robots or even fleshlights I think they are just adding negativity and they don't address the problems. Its like applying a bandage instead of curing the illness. But some redpillers and many incels seem to be on board with it. The way I see it its only an even worse version of porn. I don't think it will help.

I think most incels don't like women so they do not accept women to their groups. But yes there are female incels and they are called femcels. incels have very funny names and terms if you can get over subtle racism and sexism, they will refer themselves as ricecels , blackcels, currycels etc based on race. They also identify themselves on lifestyle, they call virgins who workout gymcels for example. They call short men manlets and tall skinny men lanklets. They call attractive men chads and attractive women staceys. Its really funny if you think about it and a lot of it has crossed over to mainstreame meme culture. And I don't think there is an age limit but most incels seem to be younger men, older virgins either don't associate with them or they probably don't know how to use those platforms.

[startingfitness]

I don't think mgtow is anti marriage in the traditional meaning, but mgtowers will preach against marriage because modern marriage has many dangers and disadvantages for men as well as many undesirable and unnecessary obligations and consequences without enough rewards to balance those risks.
The main problem is that the govt. is too heavily involved in marriage and if things go sour, the man gets legally enslaved.

I like traditional marriage as well and I still have hopes for it under the right conditions. But it doesn't look very promising.

[Asker]

Haha! So much terminology for incels! 'Currycel' wtffff

Am I open minded? I'm not sure. I'm all for living on your own terms, but the moment I get a wiff of loser mentality which is bitter and full of hatred I have absolutely no sympathy. I suppose I'm also not a liberal person who follows the herd. If may sound nasty, but I come from a family... that how shall I say... don't give a ffff about being politically correct. On Sunday afternoon, you will hear my lovely family bitching: 'modern women are so fat they've let themselves go' - mummy. 'I have never found a black girl pretty' - daddy. 'the feminist march scares me' - nana. 'anyone who isn't heterosexual should be stoned' - grandad. Of course I don't always agree with what they say, but it's a breath of fresh air to hear people be racist, fatist, homophobic and sexist. I would rather hear what people truly think, than have it hidden behind a facade. So considering this, I'm surprised that MGTOW exists.

I hate trashing on other women, it makes me feel like a bttch, but I can actually relate to some guys who have had enough of certain entitled people have. This particular situation comes to mind where I went to my boyfriend's rugby match with friends, at a time when they didn't know we were dating. I had to listen to half an hour of two girls talking about my boyfriend's ass one has previously slapped a guy for doing the same. They also expected to be able to date someone like him when both look like sumo wrestlers. I remember they were actually talking about the shape of his dick when he tackled someone and that guy went to hospital. Then one girl tried to start a convo with me about toxic masculinity. honestly everytime she opens her mouth, I wish she would close it. Never anything of value to say.

[Asker]

I've always believed in marriage. I think that not everyone is suited to it, but I also think it can be amazing. In life, there are somethings you don't want to do alone, and when you've decided on someone who can be with you for all of it, marriage, over living together, is much better because it forces people to talk, to persevere, to put in effort to make their relationship work. And I just think that's the highest commitment you can make to anyone, so I find it very romantic and noble.

[startingfitness]

You should look up the "chad vs Virgin " memes. They are the best. They have memes of that for pretty much everything.

well you seem more open minded than most women here. And by the way, being liberal doesn't mean you are open minded. Some liberals are some of the most closed minded miserable people I have ever seen. Far left people and far right people are pretty much the same, they are both equally closedminded they just have the opposite views.

and lol your grandpa made me think of clint eastwood in grand torino. I don't know if you saw that.
and tbh I prefer people who are open about their views instead of people who hide it and pretend to like you.

I can't stand feminists but there are some girls with feminist views that I understand and empathize with a bit. I even had a friend I would talk regularly to but she didn't tell her friends because they hated me lol. I don't think I don't think I could marry one though.

I would marry a woman if she has my same values, and wants the same things.

[Asker]

I'm not really keen on feminism as a movement. I think men and women are different, you can't treat us the same. I read a book about gender and sex, it was scientific study book, explaining that differences between men and women actually occur as early as 2 months old. The brains of male and female babies develop differently, and the issues with feminism is that it's actually inefficient because women are forcing themselves to be more masculine and men are forcing themselves to be more feminine. So in terms of steroids, like testosterone and oestrogen, everyone is becoming more androgynous as a result. Though there are some exceptions, for example, girls from the Han tribe and Chu area of China (which is where my mama is from), still have high levels of oestrogen, and so don't grow any body hair and have more feminine facial features. Lol I could ramble on about this whole thing.

Despite actually being anti-feminist movement, I do have my feminist moments. Most notably, when I was 16, and a virgin, on the news it was reported that a on a case where a 16 year old girl was raped by a male family member, the rapist's lawyer held up her underwear in court, white lace underwear, and said she was 'asking for it'. That hit me hard because she was my age at the time, I own many pairs of underwear that look very similar and I though it was a disgrace. I went on such a tirade about it I actually contacted the girl over it.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Man, it's so weird to just see a polite and open minded discussion between reasonable people sharing largely correct and sensible opinions. This is social media, I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that you be more toxic and unproductive.

[Asker]

@AllThatSweetJazz Haaahha welcome to the club.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Just to bring this back to the cesspool of reality: I'm not on board with the contextualization of incels here. They're one of the few groups in this world that we hate more the more they suffer, and the more they suffer the more we hate them. That always struck me as perverse, it's messed up.

[startingfitness]

Those types of incidents are the reason why women become feminists, and its understandable. I don't like it when dudes would treat that as something miniscule. We should hold people responsible, even the ones in our group.
Anyway sorry for responding late I was off for a while.

[startingfitness]

@AllThatSweetJazz This website seems to be leaning a bit towards leftist views that's why many people dislike incels. I don't like their ideology either tbh, but yeah most incels aren't bad like the extreme ones.

[Petra150]

Do you try to make any excuse why, we women are horribel sellective in our wrongly choise of a man. The horribel fact we seldom, let love be a factor when we want a guy to make us pregnant. Nothing in life is as horrible as naturel sellection, or racial sellection. NOTHING EVER CAN TRY TO EXCUSE IT !!!

[Browneye57]

Well, it's a little more, but yes, that is the basic tenet of attraction and desire.
80% of women are chasing 15% of the top guys. The rest of everybody else is standing on the sidelines waiting for something to happen.

Worse, those top 10-15% of guys are the FUKBOYZ. They don't really need to commit to a girl cuz there are SO many throwing themselves at them. And the girls actually think if they have sex with him she can snag him for herself. The problem is that doesn't work for this type of guy, he already gets so much pussy he can't stand any more. And now she thinks that because CHAD THUNDERCOCK did her now her value has been elevated. When actuality is has been lowered, the more she does this the less desirable she becomes.

You can't ride the cock-carousel for a decade and THEN decide you better find a keeper - cuz now you have to compete with much younger women in the dating pool. And the guys are always attracted to the younger and more beautiful women.

It's a vicious cycle, and you see these 30-40yo women on here complaing about "Where have all the good guys gone." Well, all the good ones have been snapped up and married off by the girls that are smarter than these cock-riders.

Don't squander your youth. Get busy and find a suitable mate, or you may never.

[ThisAndThat]

And those 30-40 year old feminized women actually think the lower 85% of men wait on them as their reserve, only to get shocked when they learn men in the 85% category no longer want to marry, went MGTOW etc. And as far as marriage goes, thanks to hypergamy, misandry and the western society that hate men, 99% of men will never get married.

Isaiah 4:1 In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, "We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!"

[Browneye57]

@ThisAndThat - Yeah, it's pretty bad out there. I know a number of forty-somethings that will NEVER be able to find a guy, let alone treat one well and love one. Destined for cats and ONS's. :)

[ThisAndThat]

Indeed that is fact. But not to worry for the women, fellow hive minded feminist will be there for them to save the day. NOT!

[Anonymous]

Those women won’t find a trophy husband. Women and men love to one up one another. They’ve been found by other gold diggers. Men will never date if they can’t find a trophy wife. I’ve been rejected my entire life, so I’m also desensitized by it; best one liner I have to her saying “ I have a boyfriend,” is usually “ how do I know that you’re not lying?” Frankly I kinda gave up. What’s the point really, church tells people there’s no marriage in heaven and no one gets to be with their loved one. What’s the point anymore.

It’s basically the issue Japan has right now. Women want the best men to marry, others have already married them and there’s limited amount of jobs in Japan that makes what those women want. Not to mention those jobs are a dime a dozen that make six figures or more over there. Plus those jobs require 90-98 hour work weeks since they’re still in debt to the US after we helped to rebuild after WW2. After longworkdays their bosses frown on them if they don’t go out and drink with the company and sing karaoke, then when they’re tired, it’s expected of them to have time with their wives.

The women refuse to marry anyone else so they pretend they haven’t done anything wrong. The men are pissed they can’t find those limited jobs and even more pissed with family that demands honor, virtue, tradition to be upheld. Many of them make a will and testament and get money for their family by committing suicide in the forest at the foot of Mt. Fuji. The men who are also left and not committing suicide that can’t find a wife shave their eyebrows, eat pudding (on purpose because over there those are what women do) watch anime all day and eat ramen. That’s why Asian women go for western men , they have what the men in their country can’t provide for them.

[Thatsamazing]

Well it's true and fine to a point, but the problem is that what females do is pick and choose the biological data they want to follow, as in it's perfectly fine for them to be "but muh natural selection" when they're claiming it makes sense to follow their biology and be super choosy about guys, but then they get MAD when it's pointed out to them that guys' biology tells us not to commit, or to fuck as many attractive females as we possibly can or desire to. You can't have it both ways-- either get off successful guys' backs and get the term "fuckboy" out of your vernacular if you don't want to sound like a moron, or decide that using biology as a crutch for your ridiculously high standards is bullshit.

[Anonymous]

The best reproductive strategy for males and females is different. (this applies to all mammals)

you touched on it in your answer. male mammals role in reproduction is basically fertilizing an egg and that's it. so the best reproductive strategy for them is to fertilize as many eggs as possible.

female mammals have a much larger investment in reproduction. they carry their young in their womb, they have to provide for and protect them after birth, etc. so their best reproductive strategy is to ensure their young have the best genes possible. this is done by mating with the highest quality males.

pair bonding is a recent feature on an evolutionary time frame and mostly exists only among humans. females and their offspring benefit from pair bonding with the highest quality males.

[lockster]

Women don't find most men attractive at all. Some of you women are gonna disagree with me, but mainly every women thinks most guys in a room are unattractive, with 1 or 2 being attractive. Its just how it is.

I dont even think a women cares so much about a guy being attractive either

[ThisAndThat]

Women haven't and won't reproduce with me, I don't want them. That's I'm about to be a solid 34 year MGTOW Monk and gold digging women were the primary reason I swore off marriage. My decision wasn't popular and the acronym MGTOW wasn't around when I first went Monk. It's a good feeling knowing that millions of men around the world have joined me and I'm not alone anymore. MGTOW-4-LIFE.

[Şahed-MMA]

Well of course they are. They won't like bottom 10% of men lmfao and I'm not going for bottom 10% of women either. People have class and preferences that's all

[Unit1]

Tell me something, that I don't know.
This proves, that money is absolutely everything! It is the top most important thing.

[ThisAndThat]

Which is exactly why MGTOW and the red pill exist. And I see you're finally getting a little does of the red pill. Welcome to the club.

[Unit1]

@ThisAndThat oh, it's *you* again, who just yesterday told me, that i have no clue about MGTOW, then tells me i get its concept. 🙄🙄🙄

People like you are the reason why i stay away from MGTOW and will never participate in.

[ThisAndThat]

Yeah, well like I said, you just go a good dose of red pilling aka MGTOW, and she handed it to you like it is, like it or not. Enjoy!

[Unit1]

@ThisAndThat same old story.

[Anonymous]

Sure. It’s also why we collectively have twice as many female ancestors as males. Many males never had a chance.

of course men are selective when it comes to relationships since for men, they have lots of semen but limited resources.

[NewZion]

True and guys are attracted to younger/hotter girls.

[Grond21]

Hypergamy is very interesting. As is the way we rate each other. Brett Weinstein has some fascinating perspectives on some of this stuff

[Anonymous]

True women have a VERY narrow range of males they find attractive compared to men who have a much broader range.

[Asker]

Yes, exactly

[Opinion Owner]

males are more visually stimulated so it makes a lot of sense that our visual interest is broader.

[Thatsamazing]

No, it makes sense that we want sex more-- and we do. It doesn't make sense that so many beta-male idiots are willing to give dick to literally anything with a pussy and two legs, including complete landwhales. The quality ones among us still have standards.

[Opinion Owner]

@Thatsamazing that’s true. The simps are pathetic.
What I was saying was that we have a wider range of what we considered attractive in general.

[Asker]

@Thatsamazing Yes that's so true. If I meet a guy who has been with girls who, I hate to say it, look like trainwrecks and are quite trashy, brash people I feel instant turn off. I'm not really sure why, I guess I just feel if that's the kind of girls he likes then he's not for me? Not sure.

[Asker]

Also, to the opinion owner, if you watch the video it will explain, men's idea of attractive is actually quite realistic and fair, out of the sample study that was done, half of the women were attractive, half were unattractive, and the rankings were levelled. That's because they are attracted to women, more or less in the same 'league'. However women's opinion on male attractiveness is completely skewed, 80% are unattractive to us. That's because of length of time it takes to raise a child, it has an effect on our reproductive choices.

[Anonymous]

Logically that makes no sense, one attraction is subjective and two this would assume that all these men are running harems while the women would be remaining monogamous.

[Opinion Owner]

maybe you could apply this to apps like Bumble and tinder but the reason for that is there are a significantly larger amount of men than women on those apps which means women have more options so they will tend to be pickier and more selective

[startingfitness]

and that's how it was in the most primitive human groups till we became more sophisticated and had more structured families and society overall. But primal attraction remains the same. Only a few men are desired by many women, most men barely get any.

[Opinion Owner]

@startingfitness that isn't true at all *^read what I typed

[Opinion Owner]

@startingfitness most people who are in relationships are not extremely good looking, most are average

[Asker]

Your 'attractiveness' is actually not all about looks. It's also about whether you seem smart, confident, friendly, ... It's also a bad what resources you have

[Opinion Owner]

@sagevalentineee I agree with that partially, however women aren't hive minded and will be attracted to different types of guys.

[Opinion Owner]

Not every woman wants a guy who is rich or has high stats thats why the 80/20 or 90/10 doesn't make much sense. There would be no agreement on what guys would fit that description as every woman sees a man's attractiveness differently

[Asker]

Of course all women find different things attractive, but power is attractive to all women for reproductive purposes. And that could lie in many forms, like intelligence and wealth

[startingfitness]

It is definitely true man. 80/20 rule is true and it will become 90/10 rule if the power imbalance between men and women continues.

Many people in relationships are average but many of those girls would or have cheated with a better looking man.

[In_Trance]

I disagree. The law of attraction says like attracts like. This is irregardless of percentages and how they're measured

[Asker]

That's true, people are attracted to people within their league. However, if you watch the video, it will explain how the majority of women perceive their league to be higher than it really is, and men's league to be lower than it really is, and so there is a disparity

[In_Trance]

At first yes... but everything aligns through the first interactions. Meaning it's not accurate perception

[Smegskull]

Women don't need to be choosy. That's why my tax money is spent enabling them to stay single and never make a damn choice.

[Liam_Hayden]

I see too many girl who get knocked up by druggy losers to find any such study valid.

[startingfitness]

those druggy losers are in this case the 10%. those women like those guys more than the majority of regular working men.

[888theGreat]

Yes women are interested more in the size of his pocket book.

[Anonymous]

this video was a real boner killer. lol. But yeah, you're probably right for the most part.

[Asker]

oopsie :) thanks for watching

[Opinion Owner]

don't worry. I'll figure something out. haha. and no prob. it's always kinda interesting to see people's thoughts on these types of subjects. Even though I don't like to break relationship stuff down to science personally.

[Opinion Owner]

do you really never add people on here?

[Asker]

Do you mean follow? Did you follow me? I follow people who I click with in conversation on here, to connect. When people add me, I don't add back because I don't know that person, so I don't really want to give them access to message me, if you get me.

[Opinion Owner]

yeah i'm following you. just wondered why you didn't follow back. but that makes sense. now i can just feel like a stalker. haha

[Asker]

sorry! If you unfollow and refollow, I'll know who you are.

[Opinion Owner]

done

[Fellator_95]

Because they either have looks or money ( assets or great job) or all of them

[Iron_Man]

Of men making big bucks?