I don't know, man. I think the women you're talking about are crazy, wrong, and horrible.
I'm lucky enough to have men and women in my life who are not only equally understanding of emotion, but who encourage experiencing and working through them in a positive and supportive way.
My best friend is a guy, who tells me his guy friends don't do the emotional convos like yours do. He can't trust them, and he doesn't feel safe bringing up his problems to them. But he feels safe bringing them to me, and some of his other female friends.
I think everyone's groups are different in that sense.
But I do hope you find women in your life who can be more like your guy friends. There are women out here who are not only tolerant, but supportive and empathetic to men.
Boot out the Karens who preach toxic masculinity. Seek out the women who live up to saying they can be good friends.
Women who shame men for showing emotions are terrible people 😑 and they're ruining it for the rest of us as well as the man she shamed. They don't realize how much it takes for a man to be vulnerable with a woman, and that her reaction to that will tell him if he can ever comfortably express himself to a woman ever again. If she shames him he will think it's even more unsafe to express his emotions than he already thought it was. Like I think they genuinely do not understand the gravity of it. Because women aren't shamed in the same way, we're called crazy but our validness in our gender isn't questioned. So yeah I wish all women would hold space for men's emotions and not get freaked out or turned off.
because women always argue and act from an emotional placem, not from a logical place. so when they think of someone needing help and reaching out, they think of themself as the nurturer and they like that idea, so they want men "in general" to reach out of help.
however when they're in a relationship, they wanna feel safe and protected first and foremost. and if the man they are ankered to is not "safe" (appears to be crumbling under mental problems, wich may be a sign of them not being able to protect them), they feel unsafe and they will distance themself and lose attraction.
Honestly this sounds like gaslighting but we’re not getting the full story or how often.
Could be a result of your childhood or a earlier relationship but you maybe gravitate towards Emotionally manipulative females because it’s what’s familiar. I hope I’m wrong but the Sad thing is some guys are until they break and stop wasting time with these types of people. Or they go a lifetime with this burden.
Had to learn how to deal with that the hard way and it definitely shaped/changed my perspective in more ways than I can explain.
Opinion
10Opinion
Women are often criticized for their emotions by men and women. There are shitty people out there male and female. I think a lot of it though is that people are pickier with people they view as platonic friends then the people who they view as potential sexual partners. Generally people are willing to over look the bad things about you if they are sexually attracted to you. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but often a contributing factor.
Emotion is a human condition, something men and women both experience. Every one has heard the phrase "real men don't cry". That's just not true, society has been pushing this false narrative that showing any emotion apart from happiness or anger is essentially weak or inherently masculine. It's not true, but unfortunately a lot of people have bought into that lie.
No idea, but I've never been like that. I'm usually the one pushing my man's emotional boundaries. Obviously not to a breaking point, but I like to understand how his mind works through things so I can help him better when he needs it.
I don't know why women would act like men are supposed to be robots with no emotions and also expect them to be mind readers and unequivocally tolerant of their woman's emotions and everything. It's completely one sided.
There is nothing wrong with a man showing emotion. This whole thing where people teach boys at a young age that if you show emotion you're considered weak is not true and does a lot more harm than good. That's why way more men than women don't seek help for they're mental health. So these women you're talking about are just heartless. Forget them. As long as they don't act like a toddler that stomps around and screams at everything, there is nothing wrong with a man that shows emotion.
Honestly, I've never had anyone tell me if I show emotions it means I'm weak, to me that sounds like something anti-male pylon's say to gaslight men into thinking we're intolerant of each other's mental health based on rare instances that are more common in Hollywood movies than real life. BUT I have been mocked & laughed at by women for showing emotions, being vulnerable or getting passionate about a certain topic/issue more times than I can remember, and to say that I find that disheartening is an understatement.
Yea I see what you're saying. It's just that it feels like the types of women you're talking about are into guys that are "bad", otherwise why would they do that to you? And when I say "bad" I mean like guys that are rude and like to get into really bad trouble. Or basically guys that are like them (HEARTLESS). I'm sorry you have to go through that.
Have you never heard of moving the goalposts? Not showing emotions is wrong. Showing emotions is wrong. Flirting is wrong. Not flirting is wrong. Holding a door open is wrong. Letting the door close is wrong.
There's this phenomenon where nothing you can possibly do is right. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned if you considered it, damned if it never crossed your mind.
Have you ever hear of weaponized incompetence? Or familiar with concept of what an appropriate context is?
@Subarugirl anyone with a functional IQ knows that people will fail purposely in order to put work off on someone else if they're allowed to.
This is the appropriate context for what I said, because women say they want men to show emotions (setting the goalposts) but then belittle them when they do (moving the goalposts). The whole point of the tactic is very simple: to make the target feel like a failure no matter how they succeed.
I'm guessing I struck a nerve, though. Did you see yourself in there somewhere?
Well if someone specific is giving you a goal and the moving the goal post that is called gaslighting, it is manipulative and it is wrong. However in social settings, and in society in general the context matters. There are contexts in which flirting or wrong, or not holding the door would be rude. When and how something is done matters.
@Subarugirl that's only one tactic within the realm of gaslighting, but I get your meaning. And gaslighting is a sociological issue as well as psychological. It's just not as well-known as such.
As to whether a certain thing men do, aside from the obviously hateful behaviors, the context really doesn't matter as much as the perception of the observer. Post a video of a man holding the door for a woman and you'll get responses ranging from gratitude all the way to outright hate. Factor in a number of variables, and you change the way a perfectly polite, unassuming action is perceived. Young handsome man holds the door for an elderly woman; you'll get more positive reactions. Older fat ugly man holds it for a pretty teenager; the claws come out and he's a creepy misogynistic pedophile. The intent and context don't matter all that much.
That is a gross over simplification. No sane person is gonna hate on someone just for holding the door open for the person behind them. They way you do it and the way you interact with the person while you do it however is the the key factor here. That’s the whole point
@Subarugirl well of course it's a gross oversimplification. I wasn't trying to write a college lecture on the intricacies of societal gender and attractiveness biases in relation to internet bullying, psychological manipulation, and perception of ordinary human behavior.
You say no same person would. But some people do, and that number has been growing over the past few years. Both misandry and misogyny are growing sociological trends, and we really need a viable solution
I have never witnessed anyone demonized for just simply holding the door for the person alone
@Subarugirl I have several times. But I'm curious as to why you're singling out a supporting example instead of focusing on the main idea?
Women want men to show emotion until they do. Then they want them to "man up" and quit whining. Then after a while its "you don't talk to me like you used to". Those guys are just constantly trying to hit a goal that doesn't even really exist.
Because you were implying that no matter what you do, it's wrong. No women want emotional vulnerability with their romantic partners. Showing emotions doesn't mean losing control, its means communicating, it means emotional vulnerability and intimacy.
@Subarugirl give me an example of a man showing emotional vulnerability
Emotional vulnerability is the ability or willingness to acknowledge (and potentially express) one’s emotions. Particularly those emotions that are difficult or painful. Emotions such as shame, sadness, anxiety, insecurity, etc. Though it’s important to note that acknowledging does not mean wallowing or becoming fixated. It also means accepting our emotional self. This may make us feel exposed, unsure, or threatened (the threat of shame, rejection, etc.).
Emotional vulnerability can be scary. It requires that we bare our true selves without knowing how others will react. But when we do, we strengthen connections with others and gain the courage to be who we really are. The core of vulnerability in relationships is, being willing to accept the potential for negative consequences and sticking your neck out, although you can’t control the outcome. It takes trust.
Despite the risk, vulnerability in relationships is the driving force of connection and intimacy and is key to successful and lasting relationships.
Good examples of emotional vulnerability are:
Telling the truth
Identify what you are feeling, why you are feeling that and being able to articulate that to your partner.
Opening up
Asking for help
@Subarugirl you could have just said you don't know. Or at least had the honesty to link the article
drjotisamra.com/.../
I didn't realize that you wanted me to site my sources... I keep that in mind for future reference.
Here are a few more links that you might find helpful.
unifiedcaringcommunity.com/.../
www.marriage.com/.../
relationshipsmdd.com/.../
@Subarugirl I asked you for a specific example. You responded with a copy-paste vaguery that pretty handily showed me you don't know what you're talking about. Just one of the majority of people who throw around terms and phrases that sound legit without the foggiest idea of what they really mean.
you asked for a specific example and I gave you one. Everything you know has just been regurgitated from someone you learned it from or something you experienced... as it is with everyone. If you are going have restrictions about how you want someone to answer a question you should state that in the beginning, instead of getting upset about it after the fact.
@Subarugirl you didn't give me a specific example. What is something that a man has told you that showed he was emotionally vulnerable to you?
I will use my father as an example. Not that long ago his mother died. I hugged him as the tears rolled down his face and he talked about the times that she was there for him and supported him, he opened up about how much that loss hurt and how much he was going to miss her.
Before that there has been times where he confessed to mistakes that he had made and apologized. It takes a lot of vulnerability to tell the truth and admit you have mad a mistake especially to your child. He has always worn his heart on his sleeve in regards to what he was feeling and did a good job teaching me that having emotions doesn't make you weak. That it take an incredible amount of strength to be honest with your self and others addressing issues instead of suppressing them.
I can use my husband as an example, coming to me for comfort when he is sad. Talking to me about the abuse that he experienced as a child and how it still affects him. Talking to me about his insecurities and struggles, and putting himself in an emotionally vulnerable state by opening up about things that he wouldn't talk about to anyone else.
My brother, talking about the trauma that he had endure as a child. Him pouring his heart out to me after he and his girlfriend broke up and how much that hurt. Talking to me about his depression and how much he was struggling with that.
Those are examples of emotional vulnerability, taking a risk by opening up to another person about things that you hold close and may not necessarily want to share with anyone else. Your shame, your struggles, your insecurities and your mistakes. Allowing that person to see your true self, the good and the bad.
@Subarugirl well, your brother and grandfather don't really count. We're talking about romantic relationships, not family.
As far as your husband goes, if he could discuss those things with you without your respect for him diminishing, he's a lucky man. Every woman I've ever had in my life would start looking down on me for those things, use them in future arguments, taint me about them, etc. So I learned to share gradually, and wherever she flinches is where the wall goes up. I used to share until she flinched and then get rid of her, but after a while I realized that wouldn't get me anywhere because they all do and it usually doesn't take much. So now I just keep the rest to myself and let it be
Sounds like you haven't had very many good women in your life. Every person that I have been in a romantic relationship with has been emotionally vulnerable with me. I wouldn't have entered into a romantic relationship with them if they didn't.
Biology. Regardless if what women say men are still expected to fulfill their traditional roles while women get the societal pass. I see it as a form of psychological warfare as it's common knowledge not a single society led by woman has stood the test of time so it's literal insanity to become one.
That's not biological that societal...…. but hey, not a single society led by men has stood the test of time either.. so
@Subarugirl yes, its in a woman's biology to filter out the weak men & find a strong mate. Men build civilization, some last a short while while others have lasted thpusands of years.
Which society has survived thousands of years?
@Subarugirl Japan, China, India, Greece. I could go on.
Lol those are countries not societies…
They have also completely changed in just the past few hundred years
@Subarugirl I remember reading a magazine waiting on a Dr's appointment & was saying language evolves at a fast pace. That 200 years & we couldnt understand our own language. Not sure how they figured that one out as I'd not had enough time to read the entire thing.
Because they aren't attracted to a emotional men, but either don't realize it, or don't think being honest about the subject would meet with enough approval from others.
Honestly I believe that is just your own unfortunate experience with women. Given the several who have commented (myself included) many of us are not like that and it is only troublesome women who shame you for showing emotion.
It all makes sense when you ignore what women say and just look at their actions. Most of them are desperate to find a way to control men/a man and a lot of sucker men (simps) are okay with it. Don't be a simp.
Well if that were true then most men are desperate to find a way to control a women/ a women.
@Subarugirl Maybe. The difference is that the vast majority of women don't want to lead. Probably because when you're the leader you have to take responsibility for the bad stuff along with the good. I'm not saying all men are qualified to be leaders or that all women aren't tho. And yes, you CAN judge anybody based on their actions. Which is exactly why "shaming" of any type shouldn't have been made socially wrong.
So you’re talking about difference in ambition?
@Subarugirl Dunno if I'd use that word but women tend not to want to take as many risks or to invest as much pain in getting something. Guys tend to take more risks. At some point a lot of women & dudes who think life is all about pleasing women decided it was a good idea to raise boys to be softer, more in touch with emotions & so on. So now we have a lot of dudes who also avoid risks which complicates talking about "men & women".
I don’t know how pleasing a woman and raising your child with empathy and teaching them the tools they need to process and deal with emotions in a healthy and responsible way has to do with each other.
@Subarugirl Because men & women aren't supposed to be the same. That's just a biological fact. Men don't have to act like women to be healthy and well balanced. Besides, according to psychologists women have more issues than men by far. Why should men take women (in general) as an example of how to be? Men express emotions differently than women do and there's nothing wrong with that. The people who built civilization did it without today's touchy feely ideas. And the people with all of those ideas now haven't built anything. I'll consider our ancestors to be the experts on how to be. Thanks.
No they aren't the same, but they have the same emotions. Being emotional, isn't exclusively a female trait, it's a human trait. Relationships require some sort of emotional vulnerability. Without vulnerability there is no intimacy, with no intimacy it's not much of relationship.
Emotional vulnerability is the ability or willingness to acknowledge (and potentially express) one’s emotions. Particularly those emotions that are difficult or painful. Emotions such as shame, sadness, anxiety, insecurity, etc. Though it’s important to note that acknowledging does not mean wallowing or becoming fixated. It also means accepting our emotional self. This may make us feel exposed, unsure, or threatened (the threat of shame, rejection, etc.).
Emotional vulnerability can be scary. It requires that we bare our true selves without knowing how others will react. But when we do, we strengthen connections with others and gain the courage to be who we really are. The core of vulnerability in relationships is, being willing to accept the potential for negative consequences and sticking your neck out, although you can’t control the outcome. It takes trust.
Despite the risk, vulnerability in relationships is the driving force of connection and intimacy and is key to successful and lasting relationships.
@Subarugirl FYI, men need to be afraid of expressing emotions because men are vastly stronger than women. Men need to carefully manage their emotions. Most women have the luxury of not doing that & society rewards them for making stupid decisions. She can always blame her actions on the nearest man and 9 times out of ten the legal system will give her a pass. A man who acts emotional is more likely to get shot by a cop, punched in the mouth, stabbed in the gut, sent to prison for 10 years and so on. We ain't the same.
Its hard as in order to have a stronger relationship You have to share your emotions with your partner but also at the same time theirs a chance she won't like it and end up using it against you later. Its just a necessary risk we have to take.
Are you mature in your emotions? Cause it’s not just about being honest, it’s also about being mature and responsible.
I’m not saying people have the right to mock your feelings but you need to acknowledge accountability for yourself.
Define being "mature in your emotions" and what exactly you mean by that?
I guess I would say stable, self-beneficial in your outlook, gracious towards flawed people, able to be happy, able to forgive, being able to appreciate new points of view
I'm empathetic towards the broken but cold/distant towards those who hurt me (mainly because I. removed them from my life yet never let go of what they did), I can be happy/goofy but I'm also moody, I'm always searching for different perspectives, but I can also be unstable & struggle with moving forward... does that mean I'm not mature enough in my emotions and don't deserve patience & understanding from women? ... Because if so, that's disgusting and sounds like gaslighting.
Everybody deserves love but not everybody is ready for emotional responsibility
Then they should stop asking men to open up if they can't handle the responsibility, there is nothing more insulting than offering fake help & empty condolences in desperate need of it, men don't like being lied to.
Because the women are being childish
That is crazy immature behavior
They should be happy the man is showing emotions
I don’t shame men for showing emotions. But I will call them out for not being accountable for their actions.
I don’t know why men think they need to be able to be emotionally vulnerable around women. Been there, done that, and I was either ignored or regretted trying to share with several different women. I’ll never open myself up to a woman again.
Because men should be able to do so and it's extremely disingenuous for women to tell men to open up then turn around and shame us for being emotional, in my opinion screw those people... If a woman is going to hold it against me because I opened up or/and got vulnerable/emotional - that's her problem and I refuse to maintain any connection or relationships with her, I don't have the desire to know unempathetic hypocrites.
What women say they want and what they really want very often have little resemblance to one another.
I don't care about their cognitive dissonance I'm going to do what's best for me, and if that means I end up alone then so be it.
Well if you are in a romantic relationship emotional vulnerability is an important part of that relationship. Vulnerability helps to build trust and intimacy in relationships. Relationships, whether romantic, platonic, or intimate, are built on trust. Being emotionally vulnerable helps a person to build relationships more quickly.
There is no intimacy with out vulnerability, and a relationship with out intimacy isn't much of a relationship at all.
Talk to any marriage counselor, sociologist, or psychologist who specializes in human behavior and relationships.
I have never shamed a guy for showing his emotions. I wish guys would show their emotions more often (and by emotions I mean like tears not anger).
Seems extremely anecdotal. But I’m sorry you’ve experienced that. I think you’re just around the wrong kind of women
If God didn't want guys to cry, he wouldn't have given them tears.
I can't relate to those women. You have been unfortunate meeting women and only met up with the hypocrits.
I don't know I think it’s our social media it’s so bad and is always baiting on guys :(
Why do you want to be emotional around women? Showing emotion to women is a sign of weakness even though they'll bullshit and tell you otherwise
In the end, it depends on the person you are with. You hit a jackpot if you find the right people otherwise you suffer.
m what emotions are these?
There projecting what they feel onto us dudes
Not me sweetheart.
Find better woman?
deffo Biology
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