Why is it more socially acceptable for a guy to speak out than for a gal to do so?

[DishLady]

After years of reading really cranky replies from guys... without very many protests from the gals... I noticed that if I post a cranky reply the same gals will jump right up my *** -- not to mention the anti-feminist guys who think women should all be subservient apron-wearing household slaves...

I'm more disappointed in the women, actually, bc so many talk the big talk about supporting women, blah blah blah, but an honest, realistic word about POOR BEHAVIOR by a woman is shamed and shot down by other women quicker than anyone -- and then is misunderstood by men as an anti-feminist statement, which isn't the case.

And so here I go again... out on a limb... asking a question that would've gotten a "mouthy woman" stoned to death only a few short centuries ago. Folks still "throw stones" with the nasty responses, but honestly... things just need to change... the double standard about who has the right to be honest and speak up needs to end.

[Lynx122]

If the mob comes for you it's because you've let them push their rules on you, you've bought into their hierarchy of oppression, you've knelt before their throne. As soon as you do that they have the power to tear you apart. As soon as you're not compliant enough with their ideology they will turn on you. But most men they reject their system of thinking all together we don't play along in their game we don't accept their authority over us and that's why we can say whatever we want as long as it's not too public. Because we are the Devil in their bible anyway so we might as well be free. I think it's very disapointing that you're subtly blaming men for this when the people you're actually mad at are the "enlightened" people who sold you the whole oppression gospel to begin with. It shows that you're still buying into their ideology even as you're complaining about it.

I don't think it's the case at all that men are more free to speak. Who do you think is creating all these movements that are supported by magazines and the media and tv? Body positivity, Feminism, MeToo, DEI. How many movements about the concerns of an average man have you heard of in the past decades?

Men get shamed more for their opinions, they just don't care and say it anyway. Because it has been going on for decades and it's getting old.

It's mostly middle and upper class white women who are leading public discourse and it has been like that for a long time. They were the ones who came up with feminism. White women are the most privileged people in human history and at the same time they still get victim status in today's world where being a victim is very beneficial.

Men don't make rules and decide who's right based on who's a victim and who's feeling offended. Just look at all of twitter. Sure there's men playing along in this game too but women are the ones who will gang up on someone and cancel them over a tweet.

The freedom men have is earned by not letting other people tell us what we're supposed to be thinking and saying. If you have the strength and courage to stand up for yourself and say what you think then you will have the same freedom too. It's not restricted based on genitalia.

[DishLady]

I agree with parts of what you’re saying… but just looking at how women respond to eo on g@g as a sample group (and how misogynistic men also respond to women’s posts on g@g), you’ll probably see what I’m talking about more clearly.

[Lynx122]

I'm not saying women don't have a hard time with expressing themselves. I'm just saying every person has to fight for their freedoms themselves at least up to a certain point. So if you feel like you're not free to say what you think then there's something you're valuing more than that freedom. What people think of you or something along those lines. You have to be ok with people misunderstanding you, hating you for something you didn't mean if you want to be truly free with what you say. I had to learn it too I was very anxious when I was young but over time I've become more and more direct. I still explain myself to people for no reason sometimes and things like that but it's alright it takes time. I'm on the right path and I'm getting there :)

[Lynx122]

Try and just ignore the hateful comments it's best to just filter them out and in your mind those people don't even exist. They don't have any influence on the world anyway. It's the best thing for your peace of mind/mental health. I think it's one of the most basic skills you need to use the internet is to be able to ignore people.

[HawkPerception]

I consider myself anti-feminist for sure (in this day and age), but I do not believe that "women should all be subservient apron-wearing household slaves". I believe that men are happier providing in general and it makes them feel masculine (if they have the ability to do so, which is the minority of men in this current economy). I also believe women are happier about that dynamic when they have kids, and before you say anything, I'm not saying that's the only thing they should be doing. Cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids is one thing, but I'm not saying they shouldn't pursue other interests. If it were my partner, I'd want them to be happy in every aspect of their life. I'd encourage them to pursue passions, hobbies, and interests. I'd encourage them to socialize with the community and go to events and get as much fulfillment in their life as they can. They could start side hustle business if they felt bored. They could do art, participate in yoga classes, join hiking events, etc. Whatever satisfies them. And when my work is done, I'd help them out with the kids. It's not fair that they'd have to deal with everything all day and then continue to do so while I get home and relax. It's a team effort in a relationship and marriage.

However, if they would prefer to go 50/50 on everything... work and income, housework, taking care of the kids... I'm good with that too. All I'm saying is I'd feel highly uncomfortable if my partner provided for me financially in any way. It's an emasculating feeling. If I don't make enough for the both of us, then the option of being a housewife wouldn't even be on the table. But I'm honestly good with either choice. I don't think desiring a housewife means you want a subservient apron-wearing household slave.

Anyways to the point of your question... from what I've observed it's the exact opposite of what you're saying. The voice of men is much more repressed nowadays than women's (at least in the west). The only space where men seem to be somewhat socially accepted for speaking their minds is online. Because if we said any of this stuff in public we'd be reprimanded and labelled as misogynists immediately. But women definitely have more power than men in speech nowadays, and even online if guys say anything, a bunch of feminist women "jump right up their asses". We're at a turning point right now where men are trying to stand up for themselves.

I think for the most part, people will always "throw stones" at the people they disagree with. That seems to be human nature. It just seems that most women disagree with most men nowadays, which is why we're at each others throats a lot of the time, especially online.

[DishLady]

I doubt you’re an actual anti-feminist bc I’ve seen you respect the opinions of women just on here. But you’re def more like me in terms of having a humanitarian respect for all people, which is my take on things since the original concept and value of feminism became derailed by 21st-century nonsense.

[HawkPerception]

I agree with you. I'm anti-MODERN/radical feminism. I think feminism is actually needed in countries in the east as I think they still have primitive cultures still controlling women to such an extent.

But the west is the exact opposite. It's gotten so bad here with the radical feminism, cancel culture, etc, that most men have a really tough time speaking their mind at all.

I do try to respect all people.

[DishLady]

Yes, that i can see. (And between you, me and the screen, so are a lot of people, guys AND girls.)

It's the fact that "cancel culture" is so strong here that everything has started feeding into it... But we're going to end up "cancelling" humanity -- the human spirit in its natural form -- which is not ok.

[IslaTheWitch]

I'm called insolent, cocky, not knowing my place, etc... when in December last year I finally accepted the promotion they tried to give me for over a year already I wasn't aware of the cost related to it...

at the meetings I'm not expected to talk, so every time I raise an issue or disagree with something it's like I offended them :D

good thing is, there are men who learn and don't make the same mistake twice and actually some of them really appreciate my input... but still... even in so advanced socially country like Germany I'm treated quite often as a meeting room decoration not an equal manager...

[WhitneySnow]

I think I agree with you in general, but I would need to know more about exactly what you said that got you attacked to know for sure

[DishLady]

Oh, I’m sure you can just look up the question about why men lie or a couple of other g@g questions just for a sample of how catty the ladies get. Makes me want to fire up another question just to log the lack of female support again….

[WhitneySnow]

Well I definitely agree with your general premise. It is more socially acceptable for a guy to speak out than a girl.

[TonyMetal___86]

Miss dish, when you talk about anti feminism, it means you're talking about me cause you're aware that i might be from the most powerful anti feminism men around the world, yet so many women follow me, a lot more than guys, you're one of then too!

I feel sorry because you think if a man is anti feminist it means he treats his girl as a slave, as if wearing an apron and taking care of the house and the family makes a woman a slave 😒

You're anger is just making you losing your mind, try to relax, get some comfort and just return to miss dish whom we all like...

I'm not going to be sad from you, even though you're attacking me in an undirect way but i know that you're essence is from gold, that's why i'll try to understand you!

I asked you about men who lies and if you see me as a liar, you haven't replied, you do know a lot of things about me, yet you try to ignore me and try to draw a picture that all men are pigs!

Men and women are equal but different, their roles in life are different!

Who said that men speak out and women don't, as much as women speaks 24/7 the majority of men in today's world are living lioe sh*t and everything and everyone favors women over men, it's the idiot guys who keeps their mouth shut and accept everything that's coming against them!

Just bring me the most loyal woman you know and whom your trust and let's play a game about whom you will end up with, me or her than you will be the judge!

Just wanna show you what's the worth of a good woman in front of a good man, stop comparing good women vs evil guys, compare the evil guys with evil women than the picture will become clearer!

[DishLady]

And I'll always remind you that "feminism" by itself isn't bad. People just do bad things with good concepts. People can twist any word to suit some need of theirs. It doesn't mean that the concept in its original form is evil. I think you know this.

And while I think some of your ideas are old fashioned by default because of environmental factors as well as your experience, I feel there's a middle-of-the-road guy bumping around somewhere in your heart, otherwise you wouldn't always be giving me such a hard time, lol.

[TonyMetal___86]

I don't care about feminism or old or new fashion, i am just myself, i speak about what makes me comfortable and makes me happy plus i do care about you, feminism ain't the title for you, YOU ARE the title for feminism if you understand what i mean, you're bigger than feminism, ofc you and some other wonderful ladies who are like you, your fight ain't with men, your fight should be against these feminazis pigs who ruined what feminism is all about and made a movement of hatred and revenge against men, i can never hate a woman because i was made and carried in a woman and a woman should never hate a man because she was made by a man, raised, fed, taken care of and protected by men!

The big concept is the god concept, it's very easy, men and women are created to complete each other and not to fight each other!

It's your right to be treated like men and your right to be respected like men and to earn money like men of you work the same like men, plus you should have a say in your government because your a person like anyone else, i believe in all these!

Yet no one dares to disrespect a devoted loving housewife in front of me because devoted good housewives are my female heroes! 😌

When women were treated like slaves in the past, beaten and raped by men, it doesn't mean that women should become the predators now and seek for revenge, in my book we seek to become a better version of ourselves, instead of taking the men's role, try to take the good role which showing men that women adores you but only if you adore them, when you learn to treat them like you treat yourself because they are humans too and not animals or sexual dolls... etc

[TonyMetal___86]

But i only believe in male leadership, men are leaders and women follows, sorry if it disappoints anyone 😁

[Dongie]

I don't really obey social rules. I am always on even ground with the women in my life unless they are in a bad mood. Then I kinda keep quiet. Unless it's one of those feministic liberal bitches. To which I steer clear even if I'm kin to one in particular. I call her Lizzie Burdon.

[DishLady]

(You know feminism isn't the great evil folks make it out to be, right? Not all feminists are bitches... we just want the right to equal education, salary and say in the government of whatever country in which we belong... which isn't such a crime in my opinion.)

[Juxtapose]

That would make you an egalitarian or a first wave feminist.

[DishLady]

@Juxtapose Yeah. I like the original concept. The current stuff is rather too "crunchy" for mental processing and has caused a lot of conceptual overloads that confused at least two generations of guys and gals.

[Juxtapose]

I would describe modern feminists as female supremacists/misandrists. They want to eliminate the Y chromosome and find a way to reproduce without men. They think men bring absolutely nothing of worth to humanity and men are the cause of most problems.

[Dongie]

The ones I speak of are. They aren't fit to be around.
You don't strike me as a feminist. I get from them that other than sperms we are not needed. I have a half sister that told me this in and around 1990. I, like an idiot, asked her what about love. She laughed and was teaching her daughter what men were for. The kid told me to work out of town and send the paycheck to her mom. She was about 5 or 6. You're not that way. Are you miss dish?

[DishLady]

Oh my, @Dongie…. I’m not an extremist at all. That’s… rather much.

@Juxtapose, yeah, there are a few crazies out there but it’s not the majority….

I believe in people… which sometimes. Is heartbreaking and sometimes very life-affirming.

[Dongie]

Yeah, well, the state took her first three kids. All boys. It seems she hates men but likes little boys. You know. I found out right after my dad died, and she and the other half-sister contested the will. Kevin told me all about how she treated them. He killed himself 6 or 7 months after he promised me he wouldn't. October 2nd, 2095. He was 35. Billy Jr. was put down as a suicide but he was shot in the left temple and was right-handed. He also had removed money and was going to buy a new truck. He was 19. It was 1991. The youngest has been in and out of prison since he was let out of juvy. He's 51. Kevin said Billy was her favorite. I called her with Kevin standing next to me. She denied it all. Kevin cussed her, and I hung up. I have not spoken to her since. That was 2002.

[Dongie]

*2005

[Juxtapose]

I would say the majority of feminists at least have some low-key misandrists views and think they are superior to men.

I trust it a lot more when people tell me they are egalitarians. That is an important distinction.

[Dongie]

Oh, they lost the will contestation.

[Dongie]

What's that mean Juxta,

[DishLady]

See, that fanatical level philosophy leads to disaster… of course it would. (I’m so sorry to hear this story bc it’s absolutely horrible.) I’d never subscribe to such an extreme line of thinking. So sociologically destructive.

[Dongie]

I'm sorry to tell it. It just spills out sometimes. I'm angry still. I've prayed for her and to forgive her. It's tough. Kevin was my second favorite nephew out of 6.

[Juxtapose]

@Dongie what do you mean specifically?

[Dongie]

Egalitarian

[Juxtapose]

"relating to or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities."

From Oxford dictionary.

[Dongie]

Well, that's as it should be. Of course, some people have talents. Others don't, but that's not the point. Everyone deserves to be respected and cared for and allowed their dignity. You don't have to treat people this way. Freedom and all. But you should.

[Dongie]

I say treat others like you want to be treated or shut the fuck up and leave everybody alone.

[ryanrhino]

In my friends and wife's friends groups, the women are just as loud as the guys about social and political issues. Luckily for us, most of us agree. :D

[DishLady]

❤️❤️❤️

[StudyingAuthor]

Ha! Yes ma'am you are speaking facts! I for certain am not allowed to talk... so I decided to shout. Nobody can put a muzzle on me... I'm a rebellious child, what more can I say? I don't listen.

[OfMiceandMen]

Not sure why a guy would get his knickers in a knot if a girl called him out or had a different opinion about something, those days are long gone, especially, in those countries that promote free speech.

I gather those girls that would typically jump up your azz for saying something are likely women from those countries that don't promote free speech. Either that or they are just trying to be controversial and typically don't agree with anyone.

[legalboxers]

I guess as James Brown sings..

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wd1-HM234DE

[DishLady]

Oh my... Still?

[legalboxers]

@DishLady From my observation HR isn't doing anything. as they call it "Girl Power" needs to be kicked up a notch.

[DishLady]

In HR circles, I actually really despise that it's called "girl" power when the equivalent is "man" power. You see the imbalance even just with the simple wording. (Sigh.) But I have bigger fish to fry when I'm working with HR so I don't end up losing myself to the semantics...

[legalboxers]

@DishLady just repeating what is said...

[DishLady]

I know... No worries. It wasn't a personal remark towards you.

[BonzoInBitburg]

Because more is expected of us. We're still required to pay for most datas, make 6 figures and there's way more pressure on us to be successful so we can find a partner. Where is probably easier for women to find a partner if she isn't successful in her career. So we step up in the workplace and go for it to try to get ahead because we feel we have to. Honestly, most guys don't really care about coworkers that much and are just at a job to get to the next better job

[Anonymous]

You mean the same way women speak out about men. Calling men things like short dick energy, he’s not a real man, songs like Taylor Swift talking about all her exes, women screaming we don’t need men, men are trash, etc. But there’s no repercussions for it. But if men call women fat he’s canceled for body shaming. Can’t call her loose pussy energy or things like that cause now you’re misogynist lol is that the double standards you’re talking about as well?

[normalice]

That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.

[IslaTheWitch]

lmao

true :D

[normalice]

☺️

But more plainly, we may have more or less removed ourselves from the "might is right" cesspool but our clothes are still wet. It will take some time for reality to catch up. Logically it is inevitable but that is not the same word as instant.

[DishLady]

:) Thanks for the more linear answer, @normalice.

[NathanDavis]

it's more than men don't give a fuck if you accept it or not...

[RavVid]

By 'speak out' you mean calling it as we see it? If women choose not to be honest that is on them not us. Why are we getting implied blame huh?

[Anonymous]

"I noticed that if I post a cranky reply the same gals will jump right up my ***"

"but an honest, realistic word about POOR BEHAVIOR by a woman is shamed and shot down by other women quicker than anyone"

Can you provide some examples of this ^ please? Because otherwise I'm calling bullshit. I spend a lot of time on GAG, and have for years, and I rarely see a female calling out another female for bad/sexist behavior.

[DishLady]

You can call bullshit all you want, hun. If you're 25, how have you been on here for years? If you're not a woman, you won't get it. Step away from the keyboard and go get a clue.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, that's what I figured. You have no examples to offer because you're lying / exaggerating.

I won't get it because I'm not a woman? Nah, I can read just as well as you, and if what you're saying here was actually true, I and everyone else, regardless of their gender, would have seen it. And yet we haven't.

[Anonymous]

Double standards go both ways. People judge you no matter what you do…

[Alli112]

Several centuries of patriarchy?

[OlderAndWiser]

It is a holdover from a bygone era.

[MrGSpotHer]

Satan's servants are everywhere must stay vigilant

[eagle1951]

i here it both ways not just one sided