Guys, how many of you are avoiding kids just to avoid marriage?

[Anonymous]

I see it's pretty clear from my generation that guys are avoiding the institution of marriage, but then I wonder if some of them would go along with having kids if there wasn't an expectation of marriage. What if we just say to our bfs that we can simulate a marriage so we can have kids, but we don't need to go through the legal side of it? Would this convince any of you to start a family?

[Anonymous]

100% of the reason I won't have kids is because I don't want to get legally married. There is literally not a single benefit in marriage for me. It's 100% liability and risk.

Kids would be great, but it absolutely doesn't require marriage. So if a girl wants to have kids without marriage, I'd do it. Until then, I'll just keep having six month long relationships and never have to move in with anyone. It's impossible to get bored, I'll always have variety, and I'll never have to settle for mistreatment like all the married guys out there.

[Asker]

If you were living with a girlfriend and she told you she would have kids with you without a marriage certificate, but you have to call each other husband and wife, stay faithful, wear rings, etc... would you agree to it? Let's say you'd been together for three years and loved her. No major problems in the relationship and no signs of cheating on either side.

[Opinion Owner]

Ah, you're the girl from the other post. Got it. Literally just talk to him. There's nothing else to do. Yes, you can offer to create a family without the government contract, and you'll just have to see how it plays out. There's no way for us to know what he's thinking. I hope it works out for you though.

To answer though, yes. Just like I said in my first reply. I'm not worried about kids, I'm worried about the law forcing things on me if the woman decides to leave. I guess if I met a rich woman, I wouldn't have to worry, but 99% of rich women would never marry a guy with lower income. They're not stupid like most men. Maybe the really unattractive ones, but I couldn't be with a woman I wasn't attracted to. It's not fair to either side.

[Anonymous]

Don't need to go through the legal side of it? I don't think you understand how all of this works.

For men, having children in the current sociopolitical climate means responsibilities without rights, regardless of whether married or not. So no thanks children out of wedlock.

I will not have children outside of marriage. If I do have children it will be because I was fortunate enough to find one of the rare women worth risking all the things a man risks in marriage today. I'm not hopeful

[Asker]

I don't think a father's custody rights are any different if there's a marriage or not. Not in the US, at least.

Either way, I hope you find that rare woman 🙏

[Opinion Owner]

It's not that the custody rights are different. That was the point of my first sentence. I simply would not want to have children with a woman who would choose to have children out of wedlock. It's a red flag I'm not willing to ignore.

But thank you, I appreciate that.

[Ariesman81]

This isn't accurate. In Minnesota at least, an unmarried father has zero legal rights to his children. Ask me how I know.

[Asker]

@Ariesman81 I see married men lose their children all the time though. Does Minnesota specify that fathers can't claim custodial rights if they didn't marry the woman? Or is it more just how the system treats unmarried vs married men?

[Ariesman81]

Men need to fight for custody whether married or not. An unmarried father needs to have a court order in order to have legal rights. Court is a necessity either through marriage or Custody hearings. Child support is a necessity whether married or not. So really, the only thing a state marriage does is put the breadwinner at risk of alimony.

[Ariesman81]

To make it more clear. A marriage guarantees a father legal rights to children within the marriage. But he will still have to fight for visitation and custody. An unmarried father will need a court order to gain legal rights and will still have to fight for visitation and custody.

[VIVANT]

Wouldn’t you avoid marriage to avoid kids?

[Asker]

It seems like guys want marriage more than they want kids though. Older ones, at least. Not 20 year f boys.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Marriage and kids pretty much is a financial trap for men in general.

If there was a benefit beyond just wanting kids and pussy, women wouldn't have a chance at all at this point.

I would propose making having a wife and kids a benefit again (to the men) like in the 1800's and you would see a population explosion.

As it stands now though... the kids are probably going to be taken away, and will be told we're evil men by mommy as we pay or go to prison for not paying, or we get married and treated like shit because woman knows she has all the fucking power and can jack us for even more money or send us to jail whenever she wants because we didn't treat her like a fucking princess. Not to mention we will do half the house work, if not all, and pay for it all while she probably works and saves up all her money for herself.

I'm not saying all women... but generally, that's what a guy is looking at. Easier to be a fuckboy, get laid, and not deal the bullshit. The female gender has created fuckboys. Congratulations feminists.

[Asker]

What would it take for you to overcome this concern and have kids with a woman?

[D_Bone_Steak]

Since I have basically overcome this concern because I have kids and have been married for over 20 years now. It did take the removal of having those concerns. I haven't worked in over 20 years and I'm the main childcare provider. She works. A split with me would equal me actually becoming the villain that I just described women to be.

But for men in general, in a larger sense, we need to do away with this legal system that is still there from a time when the women couldn't work at all. Marriage shouldn't equal an automatic payment for life. Ronald Reagan took away fault divorce, so a lot of them just cheats until the man finally files for divorce or she'll file (80% is filed by women) because she is simply bored... and since it no longer considers who is at fault... the woman side walks away with all the cash and prizes... even half of his retirement pay that he worked for while she watched soap operas and morning talk shows.

The legal system needs to get the fuck out of relationships. Only child support makes sense and 1 in 4 of the children are not even the kid's father because paternity fraud is so rampant. Why do they make him pay still even though the kid isn't even his? She cheated and lied... and that's another legal problem that needs to get fixed.

I'm above average in intelligence so I really ponder on these issues, and I'm pretty sure other guys like me do too. I mean seriously, what it took to convince me was retiring in my late 20's and I get to enjoy all the cash and prizes with no more wage slavery... and there is a point to not working. If a split happened, I would be in the shoes most women get to enjoy and I would take half of her retirement money. I was smart like that.

[XXTruthfulOgrexx]

no, why? because if the relationship goes south, there is a huge financial risk to the father.

One doesn't necessarily effect the other. Divorce can wreck a man financially for decades, but so also can forced child support can attach a ex to their lives for decades creating a financial hardship.

Marriage contracts in the beginning were just that a legal contract to protect land, titles, paternity of children, inheritance and political agreements.

These are outdated concepts now If they want more men to be interested, they need to remove all legal aspects of a marriage and change it to what it should be a reflection of a committed relationship.

Basically remove any and all legal considerations.

[Altheavas]

The question is backward! As a woman I agree with most guys here! Except changing woman every 6 months, 😂 there are STD’s out there!

[Asker]

Okay so every three months then? Lol kidding. That guys is gross.

[jamesgoldman]

I'm avoiding both

My health is awful and to even risk bring a kid into the world liable to suffer from that would be tantamount to a crime

I'm avoiding marriage because this business makes you jaded about the whole deal not that anyone wants me anyway

[Asker]

I'm really sorry about your health situation. I hope it improves though.

[jamesgoldman]

Thank you, It won't improve but I've accepted that

[art84]

My brother and his ex girlfriend never got married and they both had two boys. My brother's girlfriend never wanted to get married and it really wasn't for the best. Granted if both got married then my brother would paying child support if his girlfriend took the boys.

I myself don't want to get married or have children. I use to believe in marriage though it definitely sounds risky with the man losing everything he has worked for.

[Asker]

Have they ever talked about getting married without the marriage license? Like doing a ceremony and vows and wearing rings? Not my idea, but I don't see the problem.

[art84]

I know a couple from my church that lived together as boyfriend/girlfriend though they were in their 40's. I don't think either believed in traditional marriage and wanted a piece of paper to make them official. I always wondered if both stayed together till the end.

[Ariesman81]

@art84 Your brother would be paying child support regardless of marriage. The only criteria is which parent makes more money.

[mattthefatbat]

I would love to marry my girlfriend, but avoiding kids cause she's not really wanting kids, and I don't want to have a child grow up in a home like that.

[MikeTheBartender]

Not me,. got a vasectomy, Don't want kids but would like to be married one day.

[Asker]

What would it take to get you to settle down and get married? Do you have reservations for financial reasons? Like worrying about alimony or losing assets?

[MikeTheBartender]

Three years dating is my rule. If after three years we are happy we'd get married. I would do a prenump though.

[In_Trance]

Marriage and children are clearly two different things.
Marriage is an outdated concept that really serves no purpose in society anymore

[Asker]

Yeah, that seems to be the message I'm getting every day. Would you have kids with a girlfriend you loved if she were to just act like a marriage without all the legal stuff?

[In_Trance]

That would be the only way to do it

[Asker]

Thank you for the help

[Anonymous]

I feel like this question is backwards… I avoid marriage to avoid kids

[Asker]

Are you a guy? Not making a joke, just curious if you're a fake girl account.

[Opinion Owner]

Nope

[Anonymous]

The problem is not the idea of marriage, it just seems impossible to find a woman trustworthy enough for the job. I need to see a track record of good decision making.

[Asker]

What decisions are you most interested in? Are there any ways for a woman to proactive prove herself in this way?

[Opinion Owner]

Well, It's kind of funny I guess because my first answer for this is: "don't have kids outside of marriage."

[ClassicDropout]

Nah I just don't want to take care of a kid

[scott04sa22]

I can't have children's anyways

[travelguy01]

Not I. I have a kid and I was married.

[Anonymous]

😆😆😆