Dionne Warwick said Beyonce (and today’s artists) are not true icons of music. Do you agree and why?

[Oliverlogan263]

She even said the same thing about Toni Braxton, Brandy, Mariah Carey, and Mary j Blige that she don’t know if they are icons yet, here is the video:

What are your opinions?

Yes

No

[AviatorTom]

It's unfair to compare music today to music from Dionne Warwick's time. A key difference is most music today emphasizes the visual, through dance and physical performance (music videos), while in Dionne's time, it was all about the singing (songs on the radio).

[lightbulb27]

excellent point.

[jshm2]

She can only talk from a rock music perspective. Few new gen people actually like rock, let alone the type from her generation.

Thus she's not making a very good comparison of anything.

[Oliverlogan263]

She’s blatantly saying Beyoncé isn’t an icon yet to reach that status in her opinion like Patti labelle, Gladys knight, Johnny Mathis, Elvis, and Sammy Davis from that time period

[Nikki1989]

If anyone knows anything about modern music is made, they would know she is 100% correct. Take away computers, auto-tune, samples, and pitch correction and 99% of what is in the top 40 wouldn't even exist.

[Oliverlogan263]

True but aside from other modern artists of today… you would think people like Mariah Carey isn’t considered a legend and she’s not like any of these artists today who need computerized equipment to sound good, she has natural talent unlike those

[DizzyDesii]

Sone of todays artist are not but beyonce been doing the damn thing since the 90s, thst oke lady can go sit tf down

[DizzyDesii]

I know who dionne is but i couldnt even name one song she sang. I love my 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s artist but she ain't one of em

[Oliverlogan263]

Thank you Ms. DizzyDesi that’s what I’m sayin. The fact those artists been out since the 90s and still toppin that that songs I know any of them still played up in stores and malls after 20+ years still to this day and when Christmas comes around, All I want for Christmas is you became the anthem for Christmas played every single year and covered each time Mariah gets paid in royalties for it

[DizzyDesii]

Mariah is slightly replaces by ariana but mariah is more memorable

[AviatorTom]

@DizzyDesii I'm surprised you don't have "Walk on By" or "Do You Know the Way to San Jose" in your collection. They were top 10 hits by Dionne Warwick.

[DizzyDesii]

@AviatorTom i only know Isaac Hayes Walk on By

[AviatorTom]

@DizzyDesii Try this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fGgxMO15sE (Walk on By)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2UpwpTAd8U (Do You Know the Way to San Jose)

[Oliverlogan263]

@DizzyDesii Yo forreal Mariah is definitely more memorable than Ariana Grande in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, Ariana fine as hell and got some hits. But Mariah been around forever and her songs are just more iconic, you know?

Like who DON'T know "All I Want for Christmas Is You"? Or the super high note in "Emotions"? That song ALWAYS gets put on the greatest vocals lists.

Plus Mariah had them effortless runs and riffs before AutoTune even existed. The way she controlled her voice was straight up wizard shit. No one else sounding like her back in the day.

Ariana ain't got those same classics yet either. Her songs all kind of sound the same to me. No disrespect but Mariah's music just had more soul, emotion, different vibes you know?

And Mariah was a dime too in her videos. Ariana cute but Mariah had that effortless 90s sex appeal on lock. Plus Mariah been breaking records since the late 80s!

Ariana might be hot right now but she ain't proven herself as memorable as Mariah yet. That Christmas song alone will live forever. Mariah ain't never getting replaced, she the icon!

[DizzyDesii]

Ariana look like a kid and she can't act. But she can sing. Almost all her old songs were a hit. My faves- Everyday, Thank U Next, Dangerous Woman, Into You, Focus, Imagine, Breathin, Love Me Harder and The Way. But Mariah was a beauty in the 2000s. I didn't like Emotions nor the Original All I Want For Christmas. My faves of hers— All I Want For Christmas Remix with JD/Bow Wow, Touch My Body, Fantasy, Its a Wrap, Infinity, Without You, Hero, Always Be My Baby, When You Believe, One Sweet Day, Its Like That, Oh Santa, Love Takes Time, Dont Forget About Us, Through the Rain, Shake It Off, Anytime U Need a Friend, Dreamlover, Now That I Know, Open Arms, Loverboy, Boy, Its Like That, Get Your Number, Say Somethin, Fly Like a Bird, Lovin U Long Time, Stay the Night, A No No, To the Floor, and Joy Ride! Ariana almost dont compare
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=317xeNVNCac
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0tYzkkasY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Li6vpAMmfw0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hat1Hc9SNwE

[JustinTheGreat]

It’s honestly crazy to me how many people say Bey is overrated. I’m convinced they never bothered to watch a live performance of her. Her voice is incredible, her dancing and performance skills are incredible. Like overrated where?

[DizzyDesii]

@JustinTheGreat i think all celebs are overrated because people praise them the way only God should be praised. I love Beyonce. She is my fave female performer and Usher is my fave male but celebs are definitely overrated

[loveslongnails]

100 years ago in 1924, the biggest names in music were Bessie Smith, Duke Ellington (Ella Fitzgerald was but 7 years old at the time), Bing Crosby, Irving Berlin, George Gershwin, Jelly Roll Morton. Anyone with musical knowledge will know these names and maybe some of their music today, because they were indeed icons.

But have you ever heard of these folks?
Arcadian Serenaders, Arthur Gibbs and his Gang, Benny Krueger, Bert Firman
Clara Smith, Clarence Williams’ Blue Five, Cliff Edwards (Ukelele Ike) – was the voice of Jiminy Cricket in Walt Disney’s Pinocchio (1940)
Ernest Hare and Billy Jones, Franklyn Baur, Fred Waring’s Pennsylvanians?

Probably not, but they all had huge hits in 1924 and some for a few years later, but they're not icons. We won't be around in 100 years to know if Beyonce, or Drake, Usher, Eminem, or any rapper you want to name, are remembered as icons.

I know that Dionne Warwick won't be remembered in the same breath as Aretha Franklin! LOL

[TightLipps]

Each new generation is a weaker spawn of the previous generation; artists like Miles Davis, Billie Holiday & Jimi Hendrix can literally fart out a better song than what these young ass-toads can do (with the help of 30 songwriters & autotune).

[Oliverlogan263]

Yo I ain't gonna hate on new artists like that. Some of the old legends really were on another level, but new school still got talent too. Yeah stuff isn't as raw anymore with all the tech, but music just evolves over time you know.

Miles Davis and them for sure changed the game, but young artists still out here putting in work. And they got different challenges than the old heads did. Who knows, maybe in 50 years we'll look back and think some newbies were geniuses too.

No need to disrespect new gen just cuz it's not your kind of music. I'll always have mad love for the classics, but ain't nothing wrong with appreciating new school too. They both got something to offer, and hey maybe one day some of the young artists now will be the new "old legends". We'll see!

[TightLipps]

You are the whitest piece of shit I have ever known...

[Joshydavid25]

I can definitely see what she is saying.. And to a certain degree.. I do agree that a lot of artists songs don't have the staying power of the past artist.. Except Mariah Carey.. Every Christmas her songs will be playing for a long time..

[Oliverlogan263]

I understand too what she saying but those artists like Mary, Toni, and Mariah came out in the 90s and songs still played by them like Mary j Blige I’m goin down you hear it in malls or stores. Like you said, every year when Christmas comes around what do you hear as the Christmas anthem? ALL I want for Christmas is you by Mariah Carey and that’s gonna be forever playing for Christmas time I agree plus the fact that Mariah's legend status is being questioned in the first place is ridiculous. She has the awards, records, sales, hits, and impact to back that up. She also wrote/co-wrote almost all of her own catalogue despite being one of the best vocalists of all time, something that doesn't come together quite too often, or at least in that level of mastery. She IS a living legend to me.

[Oliverlogan263]

What do you think in the case of those like Beyoncé, Toni Braxton, Mary J Blige, Mariah Carey, Usher, and Brandy… do you think they will be considered icons to be known for generations in the same realm as Michael Jackson, Stevie wonder, and Elvis or are they already icons and legends today?

[Joshydavid25]

What's funny is that she named Brandy.. Who is pro the least relevant of them all atm on the list.. I don't think she'll leave that big of a legacy.. Nothing against Brandy of course.. I know who Toni is.. And I think she will definitely be an Icon.. Beyoncé and Mariah are pretty much already Icons.. Usher is in a way as well.. They are still relevant after being out all this time.. Mary J Blige, I think so too, especially since she is also an actress.. A pretty good one too.. I would say that Mariah, Beyoncé, and Usher are the only ones who I think has Superstar status here.. Mary J Blige is close, but I still think she caters to a more "niche" audience.. A big "niche" audience..

[Oliverlogan263]

Yo forreal, Brandy was a weird one for Dionne to name drop like that. No shade but the girl definitely ain't as popping these days like she was back in the 90s/00s.

I feel you on Toni Braxton tho, her songs are legit timeless classics. "Unbreak My Heart" alone seals her icon status in my opinion.

Beyoncé and Mariah are undeniable icons no question. Mariah got the Christmas hit on lock forever too so she is FOR SURE going down as a legend.

And Usher, man's been dominating R&B for like 25 years. He's at that MJ level too where any song of his comes on, it's an instant party.

Mary J ain't no slouch either, but you right that she might always have more of a hardcore R&B following than being as huge as Beyoncé or Usher was cross-genre, worldwide superstars.

Good points all around, some artists really just tower above others as the mega icons that truly stand the test of time. Bey, Mariah, Usher for sure cementing GOAT status for the history books frfr.

[DizzyDesii]

Nah Brandy still got it. She started younger than all of them with maybe the exception of Usher. Plus Brandy became a bigger actress than Beyonce, Mary J, Usher, Mariah, etc who all sing amazingly and can dance but can't act. Mary J be tryin too hard in Power. Usher was horrible in his 90s films. Beyonce couldnt act in Pink Panther, Austin Power and barely in Obsessed. Mariah couldnt act in Glitter but i love that movie anyways. Brandy was the first black princess on tv (Cinderella) before Tiana and she had a big audience with Moesha. Her acting declined when she joined the Game but her vocals forever stood out. She had that tv movie Double Platinum with Diana Ross which used to play yearly when i was a kid. Brandy definitely ain't forgettable. She was in that show Queens with Eve recently rapping. She shocked me with how decent her rapping was since she's mainly just a singer. She then came out at the latest BET Awards and rapped again. Brandy will forever be remembered. she's way more than just a reality tv hoe like her brother Ray J
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-WcQZJJCYT8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dDrvSHpICkM

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii Aw yeah no doubt Brandy is talented, and I actually like her, she seems Mellow and chill.. At least that's what I got from her character on Moesha.. But I mean let's be Honest Brandy ain't the star she was in the 90s and early 00s.. Not that she doesn't have any relevancy, just that she is not a superstar like she was building up to be back then..

[DizzyDesii]

But neither is Mariah, Mary J or Toni. They still drop stuff but they dont still popoff like Beyonce and Usher.

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii I could definitely see Mary J Blige but she did get an Oscar nomination back in 2017 for the movie "Mudbound".. Toni... You're right about her.. Brandy is definitely doing more than her at the moment.. Mariah, she doesn't make hits anymore, but her Christmas song will stand the rest of time.. Plus the lady is super rich.. She really doesn't have to work another day in her life.. Don't know if I could say that for Mary, Brandy and especially Toni..

[DizzyDesii]

Toni had gone bankrupt so much and can't keep up the work due to lupus. But she is still dating birdman and he got her covered for the time being. Brandy and Mary have to get bacj to work because their albums ain't crushing it like before. Mariah still drops hits like Brandy and Mary but theyre all singles rather than albums. What did you think about Brandys raps? she's no nicki nor eve but it was better than i expected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDrvSHpICkM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WcQZJJCYT8

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii Damn Moesha kinda cold NGL.. LOL.. She's a really good rapper.. Better most mainstream rappers.. Good lyricist.. Although in the first video the Latina was going crazy, I loved her flow..

In the second video Brandy went Crazy on the second part and was even better than Eve in the moment, but Eve then showed that she been doing it for a long time and Mastered her craft..

[DizzyDesii]

The latina voice was awful. I don't know if she even actually latina. She had a sucky rap the entire show and that was probably her best. As for Brandy, she bout murdered Eve. Brandy was savage but Eve attacked when she cut the beat haha

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii 😂😂😂.. I loved her voice.. And her rapping.. And didn't mind the fact that she is sexy.. But that's beside the point.. But maybe that was just a highpoint for her.. And yeah Brandy went crazy on Eve with the beat..

[DizzyDesii]

she's pretty i give her that. But that child ain't got a lick of rhythm. Just like my ex mountain dew, she came across as a half latino who can't even speak Spanish. Disappointing

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii She spoke Spanish a little bit in the clip.. 😂😂.. Shoo her flow was good in my eyes.. I've known a few Latinos that couldn't speak Spanish..

[DizzyDesii]

That was wyppo Spanish lmao but aight

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii Well, TBF Spanish did originate from "White" People.. Lmao..

[DizzyDesii]

That is not what i meant lol. Im talkin bout how the teachers at school werent even hispanic and were teaching us shit that actual hispanics/spanish-speaking people dont actually say

[Joshydavid25]

@DizzyDesii Hahahaha.. She seemed like she spoke it pretty authentically to me.. Even had the little accent.. But I don't know her her, I just saw that one clip, so you are probably very much right..

[exitseven]

Modern music is over produced and repetitive. there are exceptions.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cNGjD0VG4R8

[TenderFantasy]

I happen to like Beyonce's music, especially when it was hitting the air waves back in the 2000's and early 2010's. How mean and sad for you guys to talk badly about Beyonce. And yes, I am including Ms. Warwick in this!

[sheikalana]

Well, Beyonce is an Icon to me. Other artists not so much.

[Dargil]

Do you believe Cher and Madonna are? How about Donna Summer?

[Iron_Man]

Yes…. Do you have any Jerry Cooney VS. Larry homes fight questions

[AngryCarl]

I think Beyonce is overproduced and undertalented but I wouldn't say that about Mariah Carey.

[Malwi93]

if u google definition of icon then i dont know why would anybody wanna be worshipped

[whistlingwh0res]

There’s no love in America and yet the music always sing the love. Isn’t it lie?

[LiamJHayden]

Yes as far as today's famous artists go.

[Oliverlogan263]

Yes but what artists from the 90s like Mary j blige, Toni Braxton, Beyoncé, Toni Braxton, and Mariah Carey?

[NathanDavis]

true

[Kingofkings1992]

Beyoncé’s music is impressively bad

[Kingofkings1992]

m.youtube.com/watch I don’t know how anyone can like a song like this