What do you think about "Return to office" mandates?

[msc545]

Many large companies are insisting that their workers return to the office daily instead of working from home -as they have been doing successfully sometimes for three years or more? What is it that you think motivates CEOs and other managers to insist on a physical presence in the office?

Updates

1 y

Bosses are also using systems to make dmn sure workers are doing what they want them to do. Check out

www.wired.com/.../? for examples of this.

Some systems are detailed enough that a worker might as well have a transponder in his butt and a sensor in the seat of his desk chair - seriously. What is the underlying reason (s) for all this?

Updates

1 y

This is about control, status, and executive privilege. CEOs need to control others and to do that, those others must be physically present. Their ability (or lack thereof) to compel others to be physically present relates directly to their need for status and the display of status. Both control and the display of status are signals of executive privilege and the ability to punish others. Many CEOs are Psychopaths to whom status and control are everything.

[goaded]

I think there's value in "water-cooler" chat with co-workers, but it doesn't have to be every day. Depending on someone's commute, it can add a hour or two of productive time to worker's lives, some of which probably comes the business's way.

[msc545]

How does commuting add productive time?

[goaded]

Sorry, I meant working from home can add a hour or two of productive time to worker's lives.

[msc545]

Well, yes, but then the bosses don't get to micromanage and bully the worker, which is what they really want.

[slatyb]

I worked from home as a software developer for three years, then we were called back to the office to work in an open office plan. I was far more productive at home because it was quiet, the lighting was perfect and under my control, and I didn't spend 45 minutes a day commuting. If I needed to talk to someone, we had Zoom or the equivalent. For software developers RTO is counterproductive.

[dustybiker2]

Wait. Trump lets covid into the country and drags said country through the mud, further forcing people to stay home and work from home. Now they are forcing everyone back causing businesses even more financial loss in an economic "crisis"? "Vote for us (of course nobody voted for Musk) we will make America great again."

[lightbulb27]

I don't like it because of the negative effects and ensuing costs (traffic). might force people to move around again, kinda a waste eh?

working at home is fine as long as people are held to account to productivity. I think in union type work it's a no no as it's harder to manage.

[NathanDavis]

how else are we going to micromanage the hell out of your soul...

[msc545]

exactly right

[BonzoInBitburg]

Productivity plummets when salaried employees work from home. More gets accomplished with less people if everyone is in the same building.

[msc545]

The available data conclusively does NOT support this at all. This is why RTO is so controversial. If it were about something as important as MONEY, at least in the US, there would be no argument, but it isn't.

[BonzoInBitburg]

If work from home was so productive business would support it. There's no credible study that supports work from home. You obviously have never run an office because work from home employees are the worst.

[msc545]

Provide data that shows that working from home decreases profits.

[BonzoInBitburg]

Every business owner I know has tried remote workers and they all went RTO. Do you think they did that to make less money? Business owners are trying to make as much money as possible and if working from home was more profitable then we'd all do it. We don't care if you don't like working in an office, we'll find someone who does. Everyone is replaceable

[dustybiker2]

If it didn't cut costs businesses would have ordered people back to the office three years ago.

[msc545]

Every business owner you know - how many is that exactly? What country are you in - Germany?

[BonzoInBitburg]

I own 4 businesses and belong to a few business groups. I've owned businesses my entire adult life. I know hundreds of business owners. All my friends are business owners. Only employees working on strictly commission are productive working from home. The days of salaried employees working from home are going to end soon.

[msc545]

Are you in the US, or elsewhere? I am asking because it makes a big difference regarding this issue.

[msc545]

I think your silence tells the real story here.

[BonzoInBitburg]

I've got 3 businesses in Canada and 1 in the US

[BonzoInBitburg]

My US business is bigger than my 3 Canadian ones

[msc545]

If you are basing your opinion on your experience with your Canadian businesses, I think it is not valid for US businesses as things are much different here. In the US, people working from home are more productive or at least equally productive than those working in an office. The reduction in productivity is inversely correlated with commute time and distance to the office such that the longer the commute time and /or the greater the distance, the lower the productivity.

[BonzoInBitburg]

My US business is bigger than all my Canadian ones combined. I've had businesses in the US for 30 years. Based on past employees I've had, you sound lazy.

[msc545]

I am a professional and not an employee of anyone. Fuck you, you controlling asshole.

[BonzoInBitburg]

If someone works for my company that I started with my money they are going to do what I tell them or I'm happy to let them work for my competition. .

[msc545]

Wow, you must be a nightmare to work for. You even think you can tell people what to do in their free time. Do you actually pay people?

[BonzoInBitburg]

My companies have very low turnover and I pay at the top of scale if you're productive. I couldn't care less about what people do in their free time, I only care about what they do during the hours I pay them. My employee's collaboration makes my company better and that doesn't happen in a Zoom call, it happens around the water-cooler and coffee maker.

[msc545]

Good. If all of this supposedly makes your company better, I guess what that really means is that it puts more money in your pocket. Since you are so thrilled about this, why don't you start paying your employees for their time and expenses commuting back and forth to their workplace everyday. What you are really doing with this amounts to the theft of their time and the money that they have to spend on gas and wear and tear on their cars. I'm sure that doesn't bother you because you probably think you are entitled to it, but the truth is you are really not.

[msc545]

If you only care about what people do during the hours you pay them and yet at the same time you demand that they commute to your places of business and by all means pay them for the time they spend commuting and pay them for the things they have to buy to do that commuting. Of course you won't! Because you don't have to.

[msc545]

This is the sort of greed and exploitation that makes about half the world hate capitalists and want to get rid of capitalism. Capitalism is nothing but legalized theft.

[BonzoInBitburg]

I don't demand they commute. They can work somewhere else if they don't like the commute and if they're good employees I've written letters of recommendation. I want all my employees to be successful and there are no hard feelings if they find a better opportunity elsewhere. When I post a job I average over 250 resumes so commuting isn't a problem for a lot of people. You need to factor in your own time and wear and tear on your vehicle when you agree to your salary.

[msc545]

Of course, you demand that they commute, and you condition continued employment on their doing that. The real reason you compel people to travel to your facility is that you do not trust them to not steal time from you, so instead, you steal time from them by not paying for it yet still taking it.

Why do you refuse to pay for the time spent commuting if it is so important to you?

[exitseven]

Work from home made sense during the pandemic. Businesses operated at a fraction of their normal capacity. Now it is time to end the vacation.

[msc545]

Why?

[exitseven]

Businesses are getting busy and with the new administration they will get busier. Companies need more efficiency from their employees and a more structured environment.

[msc545]

How does having to travel back and forth to and from an office and sitting in one all day promote efficiency (whatever that is) and more "structure" ?

[exitseven]

When people "work" from home, they are working around the house, taking care of their kids, or streaming Netflix.

[msc545]

I do a lot of work from home, as do many of my colleagues. I can assure you that none of us are caring for kids or streaming anything. If you are unable to keep yourself from doing these things at home, then drive to the office. Our time is too valuable to spend it commuting. This is true of most professionals. Commuting time is wasted time.

[exitseven]

If I worked from home i would provably have 3 or 4 work from home jobs.

[msc545]

Would that be a bad thing for you?

[douride2]

Your the employee. The company wants you to work in the office that is where you should be working. The other choice is you can quit.

[msc545]

Employment is not slavery.

[douride2]

How is going into work slavery?

[Anonymous]

I think that would be great. I am sick of all these people who now think they are entitled to work from home.

[Anonymous]

Great, they should return or be replaced by Ai