Is Freedom Of Speech Really Freedom Of Speech?

[sage2021]

youtube.com/shorts/rGMOPIThZ4Y?is=7oKbwpsSAvxBVn8-

[WhiteSteve]

Freedom Of Speech, as outlined in The Constitution, protects American citizens from retaliation —and here’s the key part— FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

So we started the country breaking away from England, right. In England in 1787, if you came out in the streets in front of Buckingham Palace with anti-monarchy signs and chanting “down with King George III”, you could be arrested sent to the gallows or the guillotine.

So over in America when the forefathers were writing the Constitution, they wanted to protect against that, hence the First Amendment.

HOWEVER… the First Amendment does NOT apply socially, to the general populous. People are entitled to impose consequences on people whose speech we deem to suck, to extent the law will allow. You can’t be physically punished; but you can be socially ostracized and shunned, also to the extent the law will allow. That will have a lot to do with your locale and the typical mood around there, but it’s a thing that can happen, or maybe just with certain individuals.

So you’re free to come out and say “F Trump/Biden/whoever” in front of the White House, and the Feds can’t show up and bonk you on the head and drag you away.

I apologize, I didn’t watch the video because I’m on like 2% battery, I’d have to move to charge it, but I’m not quite ready to do get up yet, haha. But I’m assuming it’s somebody saying something offensive and a crowd getting mad about it or something. I’m more just answering the broad question.

What the First Amendment ISN’T for is to be a jerk to others without consequences. People aren’t not punching people who say stupid shit in the face because of the First Amendment; it’s because of state Assault & Battery statutes, lmao. If you get frozen out of your book club, or they don’t want you coaching Little League or running a Girl Scout troop, or working for (and representing the good name of) a company, then that’s all fair. Or if it’s not legal, it’s not illegal because of the First Amendment, anyway.

The guys who wrote this stuff were literally slave owners, and even they probably didn’t have any intention of the First Amendment being a protection of our right to say racial slurs in public, lmfao.

So, whether Freedom Of Speech is really that depends entirely on your parameters of intended usage. But the letter of the law only covers being jailed for any of this. TECHNICALLY, racial slurs and the like ARE protected speech…. but only from legal charges. And I’d say only someone with abysmally low character would want to be saying hateful/bigoted things publicly and hiding behind a law to shield themselves from probably rightful social consequences. You may be protected to some degrees; but it doesn’t mean you aren’t a major league asshole who no one should take seriously or go out of their way to make life easier for, let alone be friendly with them.

[Cidknee]

What would you say to discrimination? Her rights were violated and just because others don't believe in God doesn't give them the right to dictate what she says nor the right to refuse service that she has paid for and now will arrive late unless the other planes and airports see fit to let her walk if she plans on getting there.

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, I’ve seen the video now. Overall, I’d need more context; this looks to be the tail end of the situation and doesn’t show me what she was doing to get kicked off.

I’m guessing it must have been more than just turning to one person next to her and asking if they’ve accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. More likely, she tried to address the entire plane, or maybe got upset when someone told her they weren’t interested, possibly not so politely.

The First Amendment for sure covers Freedom Of Religion. She couldn’t be jailed for attempting to preach the Gospel to other plane passengers. She could maybe be jailed for Disorderly Conduct if it were to certain level of intensity, and the airline wished to press charges; but she wouldn’t be jailed for preaching the Gospel on its own. It would be for HOW.

Freedom Of Religion also includes Freedom FROM Religion. Christianity (in our case, but really in the case of any religion) should not inform American societal norms or governmental legislation. And individuals and businesses alike are not obligated to humor religious people preaching without invitation.

[WhiteSteve]

Individuals not wanting to hear it, or businesses trying to protect their customers from discomfort and dissatisfaction during their experience is perfectly legal. Many, and I’d argue MOST Christians are pretty normal people in my experience. But there are many from certain denominations who seem to be under some sort of religious psychosis. And that’s still protected by 1A, but that doesn’t mean Delta has to allow their customers to be subjected to a six hour sermon on a cross-country flight.

Again, I’d need to see more, but just assuming that this airline is like most businesses, I’m sure many off-ramps were offered to this woman. But she might just be under the aforementioned religious psychosis and has lost touch with reality, so she wouldn’t listen to reason. This doesn’t feel like a “no prior warnings” kick-off.

As for people feeling “unsafe”…. I don’t know. I don’t care about anyone’s religion; but if you go that hard over it, that’s more worrisome to me, where I don’t know what you’re capable of and might do. And you’re going to be trapped in a flying container with them at 30,000 feet in the sky. It’s not like you’re in a restaurant on terrestrial Earth. You can’t really mess around if someone is acting in any way erratic or strange. And if you’re preaching the Gospel to strangers on a plane before takeoff, i’m sorry to say that that IS erratic and strange, if we’re being honest.

Not to mention if a guy stood up and wanted to preach the Quran on a plane, I bet a lot of the same people mad about this wouldn’t be clamoring about his 1A rights, lmao

[WhiteSteve]

Anyway…. seen worse, I don’t think she would’ve taken the plane down or anything, but the airline definitely doesn’t have to sit there like: “Folks, this is your captain speaking…. we’re gonna be taking off shortly, looks like smooth sailing; maybe just a little patch of turbulence around Omaha…we should be rolling into Seattle about 4:30 PM Pacific time…. we’ll be offering a meal on this flight; our flight attendants can tell you more about that closer to lunchtime…. annnnnddddd we apologize for the woman in seat 27B, she’s gonna be preaching the Gospel to ya today…. try to avoid eye contact, and just wear headphones if you brought ‘em…. hope ya did.”

[WhiteSteve]

@Cidknee Might’ve covered it in my updated response now that I’ve seen the video. The short answer is that I don’t think she’s being kicked off for the religion as much as she’s being kicked off for causing a disturbance. We don’t see that part in the video, so I can’t say for absolute certain. But I have a strong inkling that she was being loud and disruptive. 1A also keeps non-believers free FROM religion, and atheists or non-religious theists probably aren’t going to preach their belief to you the whole flight.

But that doesn’t matter. If I’m bothering other passengers, individually or as a group, even if I’m addressing the crowd about the various arguments for the greatest NFL QB of all time instead of a religious diatribe… after a warning to knock it off, if I persist, yes, the airline can and should kick me off the flight. That’s just not having public decorum. Sit in your seat, read a book, play a game on your iPad, knock out for some Z’s, whatever…but PLEASE shut up, face forward, and mind your business until we get to our destination. We aren’t flying to get free peanuts, make friends, or to get our souls saved, lmao, we’re trying to get somewhere. And I have no Constitutional right to air travel; that’s a privilege that can be revoked if I don’t act the way the business asks me to on the flight. I feel like people misconstrue American “freedom” as “do absolutely anything you feel like and no one can say boo about it, even if you’re the asshole.” And I just don’t think that’s the intended spirit of the rule.

[sage2021]

@WhiteSteve

There was another video of her with two police 👮🏻‍♂️ officers in the airport. I assume they escorted her off the plane.
The 3 of them were standing there talking and she asked them if they were believers in Jesus and apparently they said yes.
Then she asked if she could say a prayer 🙏🏻 for them and they said yes. She prayed for them and that was the end of it.

[WhiteSteve]

Glad it ended with a nice moment😊

[Cidknee]

She wasn't warned or anything. "Get off! For saying the name Jesus." That goes down as official. I don't think she bothered anybody. I think she shared a touch of background a b d a atheist, trouble making Christian hater went and tattleled on her. She should sue that person as well.

[TonyMetal___1986]

There is no 100% freedom, all kinds of freedom are limited...

[TonyMetal___1986]

Thanks for the mho 🙂

[exitseven]

She looks like a real nutjob and it really does not show exactly what she did. If she was annoying the other passengers she should be escorted off thr plane. However I imagine if she was Muslim she would have gotten a pass.

Yet another reason why I no longer get on airplanes

[MrChinaski]

A plane is not a public place. Nobody is stopping her from speaking. They are stopping her from being in the plane.

[MrChinaski]

It's also creatively edited to not show any of what led to her being ejected.

[Cidknee]

If that's an American airlines she should sue their evil asses off. Hit them where it hurts!

[Cidknee]

Im interested to hear the Monks opinion seeing he's not a believer.

[Cidknee]

@FunkyMonkee

[FunkyMonkee]

As I've said for many years, I may not like or want to hear what you have to say but I'll stand up for your right to say it! As long as it's not hindering others.
Obviously, I didn't get to see everything involved but, if she was standing in the middle of the plane preaching and keeping the plane from, taking off or causing a huge scene, like another such video I saw a week ago, I could see them telling her to get off.

[Cidknee]

Exactly!!

[Cidknee]

Thank you squier!

[Anonymous]

I feel a lot of people who talk about “free speech” are only for it when they get to insult or criticise others but against it when other people insult or criticise them.

[Opinion Owner]

I don’t live in the USA but there are certain limitations to free speech where I live. For example if you call a person a mean name like ugly, stupid or loser online only 1 time you likely cannot be arrested or charged with a crime.
If you repeatedly call a person insulting names online you can be charged with harassment, cyberbullying or cyberstalking.

[Kelly6]

@sage2021 in US currently there is no freedom of speech.