Saw a reference about Science and I can prove irrationality of Science exploding into Being from a 8th grader assessment. The core of it was Existence verse Nonexistence. It’s simply but I ran with it and discovered some Philosophers who covered this long ago.
WHY and HOW Evolution can not be the construct that created the Earth, Humanity, or Anything else into Being or To Be. I’m not saying evolution is an invalid Process, however, I am saying it’s both irrational and nonsensical to say we exploded, regenerated or mutated intoBeing
-Firstly, no thing is capable of self-creation or self-starting. No thing is able to self-combust from a Resting State back into a Resting State.
-If there was every Nothing or Nothingness there would still be Nothing now.-8th grader understands this too.
-Since there is Something now then there has to be Something from the Beginning.-again 8th grader.
-So, since there was always Something then there had to be a Something Placer , as well as a First Cause. Spontaneous Generation, Self Creation, Self-Combustion is nonsensical.
Surely, Scientists will agree there was Resting Mass, Resting Motion, and Resting Energy (Newton/Einstein). So given Resting states can not self-start then HOW did Physics etc become into being? How did Man cone into Being?
Evolution as a Constuct can not initiate Anything. And all other creation models end in a Linear Regress (.99999) into Infinitude which is an incomplete answer.
-And every cause, whether be Object or Academic Construct to try to uphold Evolution, it ends in Linear chase into Infinity. “Every Cause has a Cause” is a logical fallacy, however, every Effect does indeed have a Cause.
-So if Resting attributes of Physics are what caused their Movement❓What caused the Big Bang into Being❓The only Solution is a both Creator of the Resting State and First Cause or Prime Mover. There’s no other option than a Creator God. Without a Creator, God there would still be, at best, Resting Matter, Motion, Energy although it is self-evident that those qualities of Science can NOT self create.
This is simply enough for 8th grader grasp.
Okay, that’s Science and Rational Reason.
Now, I can prove the Same, existence of a First Cause Creator God, from a Social perspective as well. BUT the above will exhaust a cogent thinking individual with Linder than 8second attention span (per Tracking Agencies through digital technology usage.
All of that is absolute detritus. A creator god as an explanation for the big bang is not only an unscientific non-explanation, it is also illogical to the point of being a reductio ad absurdum. A creator god is contingent upon qualities which obviate it. This is very rudimentary logic. Only idiots can't understand.
I'm not an atheist, but yes, yes I did. I wasn't trying to; it just happened.
This was with a girl here in Korea. She found me on a dating app, but neglected to tell me she actually had a boyfriend. She claimed she just wanted a religious buddy to talk to. I told her I don't follow religion. She said "she could convince me." So, what I did was asked her a series of questions, about how much does she know herself, what she is capable of, what she will do in the future, what her mom and dad are like, what her hometown is like, etc.
After about 20 questions, she was confused and frustrated. I then asked her, "If you can't even tell me with 100% certainty who YOU are, then how can you tell me with 100% certainty who the creator of ALL is?" And that really was the main thing. If you don't even know 100% who YOU are, how can you know the Everything to Everything? The Answer to All?
You know the messed up part? I wasn't even trying. I don't CARE what people choose to believe in. But she kept goading me and trying to "convince" me I would see "the light of Jesus." When she asked me why I wasn't Christian, it led to the first question I asked her about self-knowledge.
I'm agnostic. I think humanity is a very flawed, insanely unintelligent species and I think the idea of following ideas and beliefs made 1000+ years ago during an era where most people still believed the Earth was flat, medicine was barely a thing, and the life expectancy for the everyday peasant was under 40, is extremely stupid. I am not even saying you can't/shouldn't believe in God or have the "spiritual" thing of "my relationship with God is a personal one that no one else can define but me and Him" stuff. You can believe in whatever you want. But I am talking about MAN-MADE ORGANIZED RELIGION. Following THAT, is insanely idiotic, to me!
IF there is a creator, humanity very likely has no idea who he/she/it is. Most people are too dumb to even know who THEY are, let alone open-minded enough to question the world around them and admit they could be wrong about what they believe in. So that's why I never said there was no God or higher power; only that humanity has probably messed up the image/message that higher power would have given them, assuming it ever even existed on Earth.
My personal belief is that knowing if there's a higher power or not is unnecessary to living life. If you need to be a "good person" just because you're afraid you'll be punished and go to Hell if you're not, you were never a good person to begin with.
I always loved this quote and your post reminded me of it:
That’s both unfair and self-grandiosity and Brutal what you did to her with 20 questions…drilling her like she’s an oil well.
-Do you know, thyself⁉️
-I imagine, given she is a Christian of likely Buddhist/Humanistic Secularism, she had great testimony. Language Gap?… language is a gap in Thailand and Malaysia.
-If you’ve ever seen The Lord Jesus reveal Himself over time to say a Buddhist/Muslim then you would know that it’s just hard to describe…and you would know that all you can do is try to talk Christian to describe it.
Sometimes, people already know they are depraved in Nature (perhaps your girl was one of them). I’m guessing you do not hold yourself as depraved or you have higher expectations of others than you have for Thyself.-GUESS.
I imagine if we, including you, had a Self-Knowledge then we would at least, naturally, be able to live the Golden Rule.
-Self-realization is we are a Nasty people and we do nasty things and even though they are wrong parts of me like doing…as I watch myself in my mind’s eye”just shaking my head in disbelief.” There’s an Honest Self-Assessment, Realization, and Knowledge.
TO ME, maybe just me, you have no sense of WHO you Be (To Be, Being) andWHAT your Self is, HOW “am I this way” or WHY-am I this way… and WTF purpose of the chaos anyway❓ GUESS.
And, yes, YOU WERE NEVER A GOOD PERSON TO BEGIN WITH.-At least I’m not or ever was🙃
Not that they've told me about, no.
But shedding religion is a process, and doesn't happen in a single discussion.
I would be very surprised if any of the theists on here I've talked to would ever understand why their arguments failed, they're simply not interested in understanding.
I mostly engage them for the sake of a third party reading the discussion, it's the lurker that I aim to present a compelling case to and hope to sway their position in some way.
If I've ever convinced anyone of anything on here, I'd be interested to hear what it was from whoever.
Nah, I never felt the need to because atheism is also a part of my religion, there are certain branches or sects which supports atheism in my religion. I have such a friend who is an atheist (she believes there's no God), but she is well versed in the philosophical side of the religion.
Opinion
32Opinion
So I’ve never gone Full blown atheist, I did explode agonism for a while bouncing back and forth between atheism and agnosticism. Still not to big on the adherence of Mormons for example where they don’t drink or use caffeine. Not to big on Catholics because of all the little boy sex the priests seem to be encouraged in and unfortunately most protestant religion seem to be on the left. So haven’t really found a church to my standards but I have been more into Christianity as of late as far as my own beliefs go. I think the strongest argument is what Carl Sagan said is anything is possible. Also things like Ben Shapiro Andrew Clayvin are correct in their assessment that there really is no morality without some sort of religion. Like why is racism wrong either from the atheist take racism is wrong because society tells us That’s wrong versus where if you read the declaration of independence where it says we are endowed by their Creator through in alienable right regardless of skin color you have to believe in god. So I’m coming back on the idea of Christianity but I’m not picking a church at this point
No. I think part of the issue with people is that people are unable to simply just mind their own business. There is a difference in belief or opinion and someone always has to be right.
I don't think it's necessary to try and "convert" anyone. Let people be themselves and find their own way. If anybody who represented a religion was trying to convert me I'd probably punch them in the face and say "sorry, god instructed me to do that because you weren't minding your own business." And they couldn't strike me back, either. Turn the other cheek and what not.
I treat you with respect by not questioning what you believe in, so don't do it to me.
I am an atheist. I will never try to convince anyone to abandon their beliefs. They are something that so many people hold so dear and close that I think it would be beyond disrespectful to try to convince otherwise.
Death is a part of my job. I have seen people rely on and bring comfort from their beliefs during end of life. I will NEVER take that from someone in such an unbelievably terrifying stage of their life.
Wise beyond your years
@DARKCLOUD1945X I try!
You're right. Unless they try to force people to believe what they believe.
Well, unless their beliefs are dangerous.
I’m an atheist and I would never try to convince someone to give up their faith as I know it can be a comfort to someone. But if they are shoving it down other peoples throats, or using it as an excuse to be hateful, or arguing against science I will say something
I agree. I'm curious, did you grow up as an atheist or did you change later on?
I grew up atheist - my parents would speak about God but sometimes but only to answer questions like ‘where do babies come from’ to avoid the real explanation haha
So your parents weren't atheists?
They were, my mum was raised Catholic but didn’t believe any of it by the time I was born
I believe in God but the hypocritical churches not so much.
Everyone is allowed to believe how they want in a free society as it should be.
Both Anglican and Catholics do their own strange thing. To me, they are not a church, however, I’m a Baptist by raising.
-The church I go is Orthodoxy,-which is traditionally Conservative doctrine. It also has Seminary so Standards and Expectations are high. NONE of the above Shenanigans EVER.
It’s simple as we are taught, by “teaching pastor” line by line through the Bible without rushing. We learn the Greek and Hebrew (original Biblical languages) for each Verse. And, he’s super practical so it’s not like way out there Academia teaching.
It’s hard to find a church…what coast are you on?
I'm an atheist but have no interest in converting people. I think religion is actually kind of beautiful in terms of its contribution to history and the arts. The only major difference I have from a religious person is that I can't accept supernatural claims.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/nEjFIiGMXOkI did manage one time when talking to a theist about life and philosophy that he told me I'm the most insightful atheist he ever met. I took lots of pride in that! :-D But I'll even use terms like God in my conversations. The difference to me is that God is a metaphor, like the ideal of what mankind can achieve. And to a religious person, God is often a supernatural claim on top of being a metaphor.
But I have no interest to convert someone away from something that provides so much meaning and richness to their lives. That seems downright cruel, and I'm not a fan of militant atheists looking to tell people how stupid they are for the poetry and meaning they find in their lives... especially when I look at the lot and find many of them absent richness and beauty in their own. They can be a most miserable lot. I just can't accept supernatural claims. That's it.
As an Atheist, no I haven't, but it's also not something that I attempt to do, I'll only argue theology if someone tries to push their view onto me or ask for my opinion. None of my business what you believe until you think your belief should override my right or want to do something
u No, and I've never tried.
I'm an athiest, and although have tried to convert me (which irritates me to no end), I have never tried to impose my beliefs (or lack thereof) on others.
It's none of my business what another person chooses to believe in, and I respect their beliefs enough not to try and change their minds.
I just wish others would respect that I don't want them to convince me to follow their beliefs, in turn.
atheism has no "believes to follow". the definition of atheism is pretty much the lack thereof... so that would be a pointles endeavour. also i think most people find their ways out of delusion by themself. I don't know if i ever had a larger part in that.
There is significantly more evidence to support that there is indeed and higher being and power, then there is to support the contrary.
I have seen enough things in my life and have experienced enough to realize that the entropy and death of this physical plain and universe is not truly the end.
No. And I think it’s more about valuing logic instead of changing beliefs.
It takes a long time for someone to change their mind about something like religion. It’s pretty ingrained in people their whole lives. No one argument is gonna make them drop it.
Not really. I mean I've poked fun at religious stories such as the burning bush. Apparently it is a bush that still exists and people can see it. I admit that I don't know the lifespan of plants, but I don't know if it can be carbon dated.
I converted to polytheism in college and follow a nondenominational version of it. If you'd like I can explain it more deeply and how I converted. It wasn't forced by another person though.
I have never tried to infringe my beliefs on another person. I am open about what I believe and why but I won’t try to convince another person that they are right or wrong.
I’m an atheist, nothing will change my mind but I won’t change someone’s mind. There’s no point, let them believe in a god or whoever they follow in their religion if it gives their life meaning to them
Why would nothing change your mind?
Because I personally think it’s complete bs. How is the whole Jesus died on the cross and came back to life possible? Why is Mary called The Virgin Mary if she had a child? If Jesus is the son of God then Mary cheated on Joseph yet that goes against the Catholic religion and it’s bad if you do that and blah blah blah.
It doesn’t make sense. I don’t feel the need to devote my life wether it’s all my life or two minutes of my life to that. Go in for 6pm mass that’s two hours long? I have better things to be doing thanks
But hey I have friends who absolutely believe in God, I don’t try make them atheists and they don’t try make me believe in him. We have our similar interests and that’s what we talk about and enjoy together.
My point is I don’t care what you believe in as long as your not an asshole about it then we can get along and be friends
Saying that nothing will change your mind is you (I assume unintentionally) saying that even if solid evidence exist, you wouldn't change your mind because that's what "nothing" will imply in this case.
This is irrespective of the view that you hold. When you say that "nothing" will change your mind, it's the same as saying you're closing your mind to the possibility of it being changed.
Yeah
I have better things to be doing like I said above to even care that there could be a God or person or thing in heaven. Rain hell fire at me all you want but I wouldn’t believe plus there is no solid prove of his/it’s existence. If I was to believe in something it’s the scientific research they have done to say the Big Bang theory is true and that’s what happened in the solar system.
We are all gonna die anyway so I say live life the way you want to wether it be devoted to a god or person or whatever or not. It won’t matter in years to come because we won’t exist to the up coming generations
Not religious but I do love Jesus. And no I’ve never tried to convince anyone. That’s not my goal. I’d have to be pretty insecure if I needed other people to agree or believe the same thing that I do.
Its not up to me to convince anyone, neither do i think athiests are ready to know. If they become agnostic and wish to explore i'd happily deep dive in philosophy.
No, but I've angered "agnostics" enough for them to concede that they are in fact just reluctant theists.
You're confused. As that's not how it works.
You don't just walk in or out of faith like it's some sort of store that will or won't serve you,
Answering as an Apathetic Agnostic.
And no I haven't been able to convince others of my shit.
Theists are too brainwashed.. Atheists have their heads too far up their asses.
My girlfriend didn't really believe and the first time i took her to church she had a fit and stormed out but now she is the one thats always wanting us in church for every service and event. Im so happy i helped her.
No. I've had people shoving their beliefs in my face all my life, what kind of a person would I be if I did the same?
Yes.
Nah. I just let them believe what they want to believe. They can do what they want with their lives.
Atheists are religious people, the religion is anti-religion. Only religion deals and absolutes.
Thats the wrong way to look at it.
It's facts vs fiction, not beliefs vs beliefs.
Omnipotence and creationism are literally impossible.
Not that I know of but hey your not going to convince anyone worth convincing in one debate the goal should be to just get the other person thinking
My wife was a good christian for 25 years.
Now she is going to hell with me.
At least that's what her mother thinks.
Was she religious when you married her? How did that work for you two?
Yes she was. I kind of converted her to see reason. Took her a while to get out.
And even to this day hasn't recovered from all the negative effects it has had on her, being in it from such young age.
I have witnessed to an observant Muslim and startled him.
Yes, just by demonstrating what he'd learned was wrong.
I don’t believe in trying to proselytize people.
I will say that atheists are the vegans of the philosophical world.
No one has converted to or from christianity because of me.
I have never tried to make someone stop believing in God.
Yes.
Because there is no proof.
I would never do that. I respect their beliefs. They don't respect mine but I don't think it's necessary to sink into their "NEED" to convert me
These efforts are not effective at all. People are stubborn as goats. 😁
A true atheist doesn't really care if others believe.
Why would i? I dont care enough for their beliefs to convince them
Nope. And I have NEVER tried to. That would be DISRESPECTFUL!
I only approach the subject if they have an open mind about it
atheist are stupid they are just another religion lol
It’s not a religion. Atheism has no creeds, rituals, holy book, absolute moral code, origin myth, sacred spaces, or shrines. It has no sin, divine judgment, forbidden words, prayer, worship, prophecy, group privileges, or anointed 'holy' leaders. Atheists don't believe in a transcendent world of the supernatural afterlife.
@MrJMM
your holy book is called a science book lol
get out of here with your fairy tale book
out of here
when you can prove its real
let me know
GOOD LUCK :)
u If I have, I don't know about it.
No, It is more like resistance
never met aetheists to begin with
No. I rarely ever engage in religion discussions
I never tried, nor will I ever.
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