Voted A. As G. K. Chesterton wrote, “It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything.”
The paradox is that the atheist is as extreme in his way as is the religious fanatic. Because the atheist sees evil in the world, he jumps to the conclusion that there must therefore be no God.
This presents two problems. First, if there is nothing but the impersonal forces of nature and the laws of physics, then there is no free will. Every thought, every action is predetermined by the intermix of molecular and physical reactions. Nothing can be other than what it is.
The problem then becomes that your belief that God does not exist is then also a simple biochemical molecular reaction. You came to the only conclusion that your physiological structure predetermined you would.
However, if that is true, then your conclusion is no more valid than the opposite conclusion. It was simply the luck of the draw of your brain's electro-chemical reactions and you end up in an intellectual hall of mirrors.
In that connection, atheism tends to premised on a rejection of the idea of God in the absence of proof of His benevolence. This leaves the atheist effectively rejecting only one vision of God - namely the Judeo-Christian version. In truth, there are other conceptions of God. (For example, the ancient Greeks believed that the gods were arbitrary and capricious.)
The second point is that if everything in the universe must have a beginning, then logically something must stand outside the universe to start the universe itself. Chesterton's point stands and is a reflection of Aquinas' view of God as the first cause of all things.
The funny part is that the atheist argues that the universe is more complex than religion. Yet their own explanation is, itself, an oversimplification. Order does not spontaneously come from chaos without something outside itself to impose order. Similarly, if all things existing must start, then something must exist outside of it to start it.
Yet the atheist's problem remains. That the order of existence came from chaos absent something to give it order. It just happened - with the caveat that we don't know how - but it happened within existence because existence is all there is.
That is a presumption - and a problem - for atheism.
Most atheists don't actively believe in anything against religion. You must be referring to anti-theists. That "conclusion" you made is nothing more than a false generic assumption. The burden of proof still lies on you to prove how atheists believe that because evil exists, therefore no God and no free will and no start of universe. Yeah that "logic" isn't correlated with each other like at all smh. Actually, our thoughts are also dictated by chemical reactions within the brain, not just extrapersonal and physical forces. And yes, free will is merely an illusion when scientifically and theologically, everything is pre determined. Don't try to pretend that the Bible never mentioned how God is all powerful and all knowing, thus already knows the outcomes of everyone and everything. You know, trying to use metaphorical language doesn't make you smart, especially when that psuedointellectualism just makes you dumber.
Also, there's many monotheistic religions that exist beyond Judaism and Christianity, such as Islam and Zoroastrianism. Beyond monotheism and polytheism, there's also many other interpretations, such as henotheism, pantheism, deism, and animism. You should've really done your research before falsely assuming things buddy. Logically, something existing outside the universe to start it makes no fucking sense unless proven. Even the hypothesis of the multiverse is as absurd as the concept of an unmoved Prime Mover. If we want to go that route, then a woman is someone who identifies as a woman. The funny and stupid part is that you're quoting someone who oversimplifies the atheistic/scientific viewpoint of the complexity of the universe. Actually yes, yes it does, that's why the Big Bang theory is and still will be the placeholder explanation for the beginning of the universe. It's not a simple presumption dumbass, more like you fail to understand that until there's more evidence found, Big Bang theory is the best that we have until something better comes along. Maybe search up what the Dunning Kreuger effect and cognitive dissonance are, because that's what you suffer from.
Oh right, can't believe I left it out - Aquinas wasn't the first to conceptualize the Prime Mover, it was actually some of the early Greek philosophers, such as Aristotle and Plato. If you actually knew a thing or two about philosophy, which Christianity heavily borrows from, you wouldn't quote such a dumb statement. Atheists reject the idea of the Abrahamic God because it is logically impossible for a diety to be both all loving and all hateful, and I don't care what excuses you give to dismiss the Old Testament. Evolutionists aren't the ones to make such a creationist assertion, that would be physicists and astronomists smh and lmfao. Luck doesn't exist, that's merely an illusion, many probable events can be mathematically calculated within a small margin of error. As far as science goes, randomness only has been proven to exist at the subatomic level when an observer can change if subatomic matter changes from a wave to particle and vice versa. Of course, due to your massive cognitive dissonance you're probably gonna dismiss everything I tell you anyways. Next time, you should make your own arguments instead of blindly quoting from a religious retard.
@bingbongbangbung Forgive me, I don't mean to offend but if you could re-write this in proper paragraph form, I will take the time to read it. As it is, this is just a block of words would makes it difficult to ferret out the individual points you are making.
Just a few quick clarifications. I did not say that Aquinas was the first to conceptualize God. I merely made reference to his arguments regarding God's nature.
Second, I did not say that atheists believe in anything against religion - other than, for obvious reasons, religion itself.
As far as atheists believing that because evil exists, I should have been more clear. I did not mean to suggest ALL atheists. Rather I was trying to highlight the various arguments used by various atheists to make their case.
As to the point about chemical reactions in the brain, you are making a distinction without a difference, The point is that you are nothing but the sum of your parts. The chemical reactions in your brain are just that, chemical reactions. You are a mere product of those reactions.
As to God being all knowing - who said that I was denying that? The Christian argument, at least, is that God gave man the gift of free will. He chose to use that gift to rebel. God was aware of this but chose to make Himself powerless before God's will in deference to His love for his Creation. This resolving itself in the fullness of time.
The ancient Greeks and Romans, on the other hand, created man for their amusement and basically used man as a toy. The good and the bad being allowed for the amusement of the gods. (Please note, the above two points are summarizations. They would actually require fuller detail to be explained, but space limitations forbid.)
At any rate, this was what I was able to pick out of your word mesh. Please feel free, if you like, to clear it up and I will try to make a more wholistic counterpoint to what you appear to have written above.
Lol you do know that there are Christian scientists correct? The greatest scientists to ever live were Christian. Moreover not only is there a plethora of evidence for the God of the Bible, God is the true meaning of life. Overall just knowing that you have a God who is also your father that can do exceedingly beyond anything you can comprehend or imagine is supporting you through thick & thin & takes care of all your necessities & always there for you in addition loves you more than any other being can comprehend is a very awesome feeling. In return he just wants your love, trust & complete obedience. Want my advice follow Yeshua/jesus & never turn back. At the end of the day this world isn’t worth it. The things of this world is temporary follow Yeshua & never turn back. God bless everyone in the world 🌎🙏🏾.
I'm not sure. But I believe in science and I believe there's some sorta god out there.
My version of God, as a former Catholic and current agnostic/witch, is an ineffable, femme-presenting cosmic joker.
She created this whole mess, gave us free will, and now she's just watching what happens. There is no grand plan, there is no up or down. There's just life, free will, and consequences.
How about I don't know? There might be or there might not be. But without being sure I'm not going to waste my life by following the rules in the bible, Koran or any other kind of book. I don't agree with most rules and I just do whatever feels good to me and I'm just going to have fun.
I used to always beat up the catholic Boys at my school and I would abuse the Catholic Females. They just Sat me in a room and I talked to a catholic Counselor And they believed god would put an end to my abuse but it never did For 8 years I beat up the boys and abused the Females of that school. They just said that I’m sinning and have the devil in me and through talking with the adults and prayer they believed that was enough to Make god save me I don’t abuse people anymore But during all of my elementary years I abused the Females and beat up the boys I Donate to charity now and have spent my entire life trying to Make up for everything I did in elementary school.
I believe in science. BUT, I also believe that true science is all about understanding how the universe works. Time and time again, scientific discoveries have debunked old theories. There’s so much still to understand—so much uncertainty—so much left to discover. To find the truth of everything, one needs to keep an open mind. That’s why I think the idea of deities, extra-dimensional beings, and other paranormal phenomena shouldn’t be so quickly dismissed.
I just started watching that show called Lucifer on Netflix I'm starting to understand it lol! No but real talk I understand some people need too believe in something whatever floats your boats I have a open mind in some religions but me personally I don't do the Sunday church thing I respect it all tho:)!
I generally don't care, when I was kid I always used to go to church but as I got older I stopped caring. I try to be a descent human being and help others when they are in need, I don't wanna be in stress all my life thinking if there's a god or not or hell and heaven. There are many religions in the world nowadays yland many religions that disappeared, how you know if your god is the real one
If 'God' doesn't exist, okay. If he does exist, he has a hell of a lot of explaining to do about how the world is today. So either way, I don't really care. Just treat people how you want to be treated.
I do not believe in god as such but I do believe that there is much we do not know and that some of this, the stories and fables, have come from something which has become god.
Science doesn't disprove "god" but rather only the stories about deities humans have created. I don't believe in any religion, but I do believe in cosmic forces grander than our narrow perspective. Science can only prove what we can understand.
Gods there when I need him. Sometimes I feel like I can’t prove he’s real or not. But I’ve had some unexplainable things happen that lead me to believe in him.
I've been through some times that if there wasn't a God I wouldn't be here you guys believe what you want I'm gonna stay on my beliefs don't diminish me, I won't diminish you
See I'm a polytheist. I call myself a pagan although I don't follow one specific sect of it. Gods of different pantheons, and angels, and demons, exist. And nature is sacred. As for God, this is a source energy. I originally started off wiccan, and wiccans usually acknowledge a "god and goddess" as the great divine. I still think that God itself is both male and female. Doesn't have a specific look. But has "light" and "dark" energy (think of like the comparisons of heaven and hell). This where all things come from. And yes, anybody can talk to "God" as something with intelligence. It could manifest as either a male or female. We all are a child of "God" because we are a part of that energy since it is the origin of everything.
I want to in God I want to believe there is ‘a God But if there is, He’s never given me a reason to..: so maybe, I can’t help but wonder if it ain’t another fantasy story
It's not a fantasy. I PROMISE. Please just pray to him and tell him, well, everything. And ask him to reveal himself to you. I will be praying for you as well. In fact I'll do it right now.
I believe God is real since I feel like the circumstances for life to exist on Earth to be waaayyy to perfect to be a coincidence. Plus, Marian apparitions also makes me have faith. But that's just me.
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