Do you have faith in God or have evidence in God?

[OddBeMe]

Faith

Evidence

Other…I guess

[MementoMori777]

Faith, because lack of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's not even just evidence tbh it more of lack of comprehension, that's why many people don't believe because they lack a lot of knowledge on it, no one is gonna know everything but considering we don't understand everything and we exist should be a form of evidence to whoever takes it of course, this probably won't make sense to you but let's use animals for example, we are the higher power to them and we know so much more than them, meanwhile they don't even have a clue, it doesn't mean all those things don't exist, they just lack the knowledge of those things existing, like currency and what it does, they got no clue of it's existance and if you never show it to them, it doesn't make it any less real, there's evidence, but people just don't comprehend it, but tbh there's archeological evidence that many of the places that existed back in the day that are mentioned in the Bible, exist, many of it is found today, I think recently they made another discovery but it all depends if you are willing to accept that evidence and if you even comprehend it.

[OddBeMe]

Well.. no we don’t believe because science fails everytime to find god. Boom done.

But this Q is to point out you can’t have it both ways. Either it’s faith or “evidence” driving your belief.

[MementoMori777]

I just told you there's archeological evidence tho

[OddBeMe]

What’s the best archeological evidence?

[MementoMori777]

Search it, it's online, they have pictures and everything, search biblical location discoveries

[OddBeMe]

I did. They dug up cities mentioned in the Bible. But that’d be like me saying Spider-Man exists because “look: New York.”

[MementoMori777]

Yea but if new York was covered in webs you'd believe, these locations were underground and didn't exist until the discovery

[OddBeMe]

No that just means somehow webs covered NY. Oh your sense of logic is so skewed.

And it did exist…we just didn’t know.

[MementoMori777]

Okay but the Bible knew before it was discovered lmao

[MementoMori777]

Seems to me like you don't want to believe and you'd rather live in denial

[OddBeMe]

No…it was around or known about when the Bible was written.

And no I don’t have a predilection for non belief. I just have a predilection for good evidence.

[MementoMori777]

Then if God exists, you'll never find him

[MementoMori777]

You are looking for physical evidence of something that isn't phsyical

[OddBeMe]

You said you said you had evidence! Was I lie to? Lol

Now you’re switching back to faith…which is belief in the absence of evidence. Thanks!

[MementoMori777]

I did, you are being ignorant about it and trying to find loopholes cause you don't want to believe, you like living in your bubble and are close minded about the whole idea cause you don't want to believe in a God, you rather believe you are your own god and whatever floats your boat I guess, if God is real, you'll pay for it weither you believe or not, it's not really my problem you know

[OddBeMe]

Logic is what you call loopholes?

[MementoMori777]

No, that's not logic, it's blindness 😂

[OddBeMe]

I destroyed your archeological evidence with logic and you went back to faith. That ain’t blindness on my part.

[MementoMori777]

You didn't destroy it, you avoided it, just how you avoided my whole paragraph that I wrote, lack of comprehension is the problem, you are stuck on evidence and phsyical stuff for something that isn't physical, seeking for evidence when you aren't even willing to open you mind to it is illogical itself, you are relying on a sense.

[OddBeMe]

No you talk about lack of knowledge being why I don’t believe. Which actually isn’t true. Strangely, ones who know the Bible new are atheists- which is why we became atheists.

And then your archeological bs, cities were mentioned in the Bible that were around or known about. A fictional text can have references to real life dumbass.

[MementoMori777]

Fair point, you re technically the idiot if you don't know it normally does rely on faith but there's spiritual evidence which is normally personal and it's different for everyone but I wouldn't expect you to understand, stupid fuck

[Tecilla]

Hmm yeah, I guess you're right. But often when you choose to have faith without evidence, you obtain the evidence after choosing faith.

[MementoMori777]

Exactly, the truth is that when someone chooses to reject Faith, they won't ever find the evidence

[OddBeMe]

@Tecilla faith doesn’t become evidence. It’s literally the opposite.

[OddBeMe]

In 1000 years they’ll find Spider-Man comics. New York existed! Does that mean Spider-Man existed? No. That’s stupid.

[Tecilla]

I did not say faith becomes evidence, but you often receive evidence after you have faith

[nolabels]

1 John 4:19 - We love because first He loved us.

That did it for me.

I'd been trying to conceive of the origins of selfless love when I found that verse.

Love is divine.

[OddBeMe]

I loved plenty of girls first and got nothing. Lol

But why is that “it” for you? That’s like me believing in Xenu from Scientology because a sci fi author said he loved me.

[nolabels]

Well, as I mentioned, I had been trying to explain to myself where pure selfless love originates.
I've heard of biological and psychological explanations for selfless love.
Those explanations don't fully satisfy me.

Also, being raised as a Catholic, but never really studying it or paying much attention in Sunday school, I was an agnostic for most of my life, wondering how people could believe something and wishing that I could also.
So, there is that Judeo-Christian background in my upbringing.

Some years ago, as an adult, I began to search for some answers for myself about a lot of serious topics.
I was reading modern books as well as searching through The Bible.

When I came across that verse, "We love because first He loved us", it completed my search for where love originates. Love is from God. Love is divine. God is love.

It hit me like a thunderbolt.

It's not a scientific explanation, I know that 100%.
But it did the trick for me.
All kinds of complicated thinking fell into place for me after having that epiphany.

I'm not a "religious" man, at all.

I am a happier man now than I was before finding 1 John 4:19.

I go with what works.

[OddBeMe]

Cool! You sound like a logical person who has head on straight and knows what he’s doing. If you get validation and happiness from it I can’t argue against that, nor would I.

I cry every time I see orangatan videos on YouTube, not the same, but you get it.

[nolabels]

I see that you are debating faith versus evidence with other posters.

One could say that the "evidence" is the good that the believer receives from their having believed.

I'm not talking about warring religions.
I'm talking about each persons' personal relationship with their God.

Everyone has a god, whether it's supernatural or manmade.

Do I have a photo of my God as evidence? Of course not.

[nolabels]

I get it.
😊👍

[OddBeMe]

Well that’s good and I have no wish to take that “goodness” away from people. But that’s not evidence. Not even close.

[nolabels]

I don't disagree with you.

I don't need to agree.

It doesn't matter in the long run, except maybe to those who believe and therefore experience life in an "enhanced" manner simply because of their faith.

That's something that just came to my mind, that maybe those who believe "evidence" a "better" life-experience than those who don't.

Quantifiable?
It might be if you could get people to really talk candidly about themselves.

Would manna from heaven convince a non-believer, or water from a rock?

Who knows?

[Siri137]

You can have both, like I do :D

Faith is an act of trust, a confidence in one's choice that transcends mere reason and logic. It is thus superior to reason and logic, although those two have their uses (sometimes).

Why do you have this obsession in trying to "disprove" God's existence? You've asked so many questions in the religion section of GAG. Is it some kind of obsession of yours? Are you trying to convince yourself of the legitimacy of atheism, because your faith in it is very weak? Yes, I think that must be it :D

Anyway, I think I'll turn my definition of faith into a question here. May as well :D

[OddBeMe]

No you can’t. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. Either you believe on evidence or not (faith).

[Siri137]

No, that's YOUR definition of the word 'faith', but it's not the correct one (or at least, not the definition that most people accept).

[OddBeMe]

Sure, and Hegelian logic would say words have usage not definitions. So you’re right.

But in definitional, analytic sense.. there’s still a dissonance. Faith is belief without evidence but then you say you have both. That’s definitional insanity.

But hey we all have that in some way. :)

[Siri137]

Faith isn't "belief without evidence". Where did you get that idea from? That's not the correct definition of the term.

[OddBeMe]

No can’t have both. If you have evidence you don’t have faith. By definition.

People fall back on “faith” when their evidence fails.

[Anonymous]

LMAO - NO!

[strateguy632]

this meme is self contradictory... try reading it! after?

[Stoner710]

I believe there is a god, I have no proof hence why I’m agnostic, I understand atheism but the philosophy makes absolutely no sense. Why should we kill to get what we want? There is no peace only strength through strength I gain power, your power again victory for victory. My chains are broken. Kill those who don’t need to live spare the ones you have use for that is the dark side death is meaningless there is no victory in death there is only victory in life. The strong will survive the weak will die explaining how the dark side isn’t correct

[OddBeMe]

That’s not what agnostic or atheism means, but ok.

So you believe based on what you think others believe?

[Stoner710]

Kinda I don’t think morality exists without some sort of god. They’re only 1 atheist that ever made sense to me and that’s the Marquis de Sade. Nature doesn’t care about morality. If Darwin is correct and its survival of the fittest why is rape wrong? If our only purpose is to reproduce why not do everything in your power to make sure your genetic live on. Without God, there is no right and wrong there is just existence. Nature doesn’t care about you nature doesn’t have morality there’s no point to morality without some sort of creator he could be the Greek gods that are real. It could be the Hindu gods that are real. They could be the Christian god that is real but without some sort of God, there is no morality

[OddBeMe]

Rape and Darwin aren’t connected. All he says is that creatures adapt to their environments or die out. That’s why animals are different now than 1000 or 50000 years ago.

[Stoner710]

True but humans aren’t much different. Plus humans are responsible for the extinction of a lot of different species. The dodo bird died out around the 1600 due to they being so dumb they would approach humans and then get eaten.

[OddBeMe]

So they died out, thats Darwin. Smart birds are the seagulls that bother you on the beach.

[Stoner710]

Crows are smarter to be fair. The fun penstock bird battle I’ve seen was between a hummingbird and a crow , the hummingbird won.

But again, if it’s survival of the fittest, and the fittest can force sex upon a female what’s wrong with that, according to atheism and natural law? It’s because of Christianity that we think rape is abhorrent otherwise, rape, an all species is completely natural. When you look at chimpanzees, they rape each other all the fucking time, and then the dominant male comes and beat the fuck out of the rapist, but the rapist don’t want because the rapist genetics continue. How are humans different than chimpanzees? Chimpanzees have no religious moral structure. They have a hierarchy, but a lesser milk and break that hierarchy and raped a female chimpanzee, and she will still bear its child. What is the difference if we are just animals and not spiritual beings

[OddBeMe]

you think rape was ok for 10,000 years until Jesus hit the earth 2000 years ago? We had egyptians, hittites, even the Romans were pretty lawful. A roman citizen could walk unmolested in the known world with a sign on his chest that read "I am a Roman citizen."

[Stoner710]

No I’m saying a lot of culture though rape was perfectly fine. Supposedly 1 in 4 humans on earth is related to Genghis Khan. Why because he went around rapping women. The Roman’s would go through raping women in the heart of battle. The Nordic societies would rape Christian women all the time did the Egyptian’s used to rape people it wasn’t until the rise of the Holy Roman Empire that rape became taboo. Not to mention the Native American tribes who use to capture are rape women all the time. It took a mix of Greek reasoning and Judeo Christian ethics that rape started becoming more and more rare. Without Christianity rape woule still be a very common place.

[OddBeMe]

True. Same as Judeo Christian’s. The Bible and NT allows slavery and the rape of women as long as they marry their victims.

[OddBeMe]

And Christian fathers have a long history of selling their daughters to husbands. If that’s not rape…

[Stoner710]

You’re talking arranged marriages. Maybe but pretty much every culture has done that one.

This is where I do question the idea of Lust vs sexual desire

Now I think you are thinking I believe in the Christian god. I believe there is a god I don't know if it’s the Christian one, or another

[OddBeMe]

Oh so now Christianity doesn’t mean anything to you when just before he’s the source of all morals. Every time…

[Stoner710]

Of course it’s a source for me, it’s the bases for all of western civilization without Christianity the west falls and you don’t have the moral structure the west has put on most of the globe.

You asked if I believe in god. The answer is I believe is some sorta of god. I don't know if it’s the Christian god all I’m saying is there’s one out there.

2 things can be true at once

[Fuentes]

God is real so is Satan. Do I have faith in God no, I don't not anymore. For various reasons these days now. That doesn't mean I don't beleive in him I just don't put my faith in him. I rather trust Lucifer/Satan then God. He's a liar and doesn't keep his word and isn't perfect and infact he's far from it.

[strateguy632]

sweet read

[OddBeMe]

Lots to discuss here…

You don’t choose what you believe in. You choose to like or dislike. Cool, like satan. But how do you know wither exists?

[Fuentes]

Clearly it exists their is a such thing as evil and good and pure evil exist but the only thing pure evil is God.

[OddBeMe]

So good and evil don’t exist. They’re concepts. Do exclamation points exist?

[Fuentes]

Dude we been through this, if you do some pedophile, rapist or murder type stuff that is pure evil and you know it. It's a choice that exist to entertain that type of lifestyle and that makes you evil. But since God will allow it it makes God evil.

[OddBeMe]

Agreed, but evil isn’t an entity. If you have evidence that it is, please provide.

[Fuentes]

U don't need it to be an entity explain people with schiphrenia a d whatever else mental disease brutally murdering someone in a sick and sadistic way and claiming someone else told them to do it? What drives a human mind to kill. someone in such a sick and gruesome way? And u will deny no entities exiist? How did this human know how to do kill someone and acient way nobody has ever seen if they never studied it?

[OddBeMe]

You need to be a physical entity to “exist”

As I said a question mark and evil don’t exist outside basic concepts…. same for god by the way.

[Fuentes]

Where did they know to get those ancient writings and rituals on a body when possessed?

[OddBeMe]

What in the what now?

Ancient writings on the body? Like tattoos? And there’s no scientific proof of possessions. Most likely those ancients texts experienced mental illness and didn’t know wtf it was.

[Fuentes]

How can you do something like that if u never seen the text before?

[OddBeMe]

I said most likely. See Occam’s razor works because it takes out all unnecessary assumptions. No demons have ever been recorded by science. But mental illness has.

[Fuentes]

Have u ever tried a satanic chant? To bring about demons?

[OddBeMe]

Uh no, but video tape it next time! Not sure why religionists never think of videotape when trying to provide evidence. Lol

[Fuentes]

Why expose something so sacred?

[OddBeMe]

Then stop expecting people to believe you.

[Fuentes]

You should automatically know, it's common sense to know Satan's real qnd if he's real God is real
But I have a new perspective on God before I was a. huge supporter he's a fraud and s liar and hates his children and is fake af. I rather worship Satan them him

[OddBeMe]

Common sense…. seems like that’s been handled by philosophers already.

[OddBeMe]

no its not clear. grass clearly exists. show me god or satan.

[Fuentes]

Prove to me they don't exist.

[OddBeMe]

thats not how logic works. Prove Zeus doesn't exist.

[Fuentes]

I don't need too I belive in Zeus

[OddBeMe]

Go back a step: What is logic?

[Fuentes]

Logic, is something you don't have what so ever bro lol

[OddBeMe]

Why don’t you believe in the all mighty Zeus?

[Fuentes]

I do but he isn't the great God he is mythology earth God but he Isn't stronger then Satan or God

[OddBeMe]

how about Jupiter? The Roman god?

[Fuentes]

I belive in all God's many angels left the kingdom of heaven

[OddBeMe]

Even gods you never heard of?

[Fuentes]

I'm sure there are many gods I never heard of yet at all lol

[OddBeMe]

Your position is they’re all real. Even the 1000 Hindu gods. That’s a lot of time on your knees. Wayo!

[Fuentes]

Hindu gods are real too

[OddBeMe]

Now you’re just faltering. Look up logic and reason, maybe you’ll see how far off you got..

[Fuentes]

Lol I'm faltering? U just choose to not beleive but clearly it's all real and ur mad

[douride2]

No faith or evidence that a god exists or doesn't.

[strateguy632]

how cam you claim no evidence? where did you look? or just decide to reject any evidence you will see.

[OddBeMe]

@strateguy632 trying not to get into a long argument over “evidence”. But why do you believe in god? Faith or evidence? That’s my question.

[douride2]

@strateguy632 Link me up with some proof will ya?

[strateguy632]

to do, depends, if you decided "no proof" then proof will get rejected but if you searched for evidence or for god and did not find where did you search?

[douride2]

@strateguy632 I have an open mind. I haven't decided either way.

[genericname85]

if i had evidence in god, why would i need faith?

[OddBeMe]

My god! The perfect answer.

[genericname85]

i don't have faith in god either tho :D cause that serves no purpose whatsoever.

[OddBeMe]

Oh I know. Only atheists seem to realize this point.

[genericname85]

Well only delusion and willfull ignorance is the way out of that realization.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah not an easy sale to the deluded. It’s so comforting for them.

[Anonymous]

yes and no. I do have faith in God but I'm not big on church or reading the Bible. After the craziness I dealt with from the week before Christmas through middle of march the presents of God wasn't something I physically saw but I definitely could feel his presents near me it was very calm and peaceful even when I wasn't. You can makeof it what you want to.

[OddBeMe]

I guess my point of this Q is that a lot of religionists say faith AND evidence. That’s impossible. It’s one or the other that drives your belief.

[jshm2]

You can only ever have faith, while in life. Only after death, can we leave mortal flesh and truly see.

The human eye can only see in certain light. How the fuck are you expecting it to behold more than it's capable of?

[strateguy632]

in jew school they taught us evidence... later i noticed that, that evidence was a better match for protestant version.

[OddBeMe]

Protestants still believe in the Torah. They just call it the OT.

[exitseven]

I do have faith in God but I have been very confused lately.

[Fuentes]

God is a disrespectful person, I can tell you that much.

[exitseven]

@Fuentes I have never met him. He made a pretty nice planet though.

[Fuentes]

A nice planet but he's an asshole

[exitseven]

@Fuentes sometimes he just has a weird sense of humor.

[Fuentes]

I ain't ever supporting him again lol

[Juxtapose]

Neither. It's all made up from what I have seen.

[strateguy632]

seen where? in your small bubble? both sides are "out there".

[Juxtapose]

In reality lol.

Point to ONE credible, peer-reviewed scientific art which supports theists.

Total nonsense.

[Juxtapose]

"Art" being short for "article".

[OddBeMe]

@strateguy632 I hate the idea of “both sides.” Like climate change, this god shit ain’t got two sides. No scientific evidence: boom done.

[strateguy632]

to jux, content reality, i connect your phrases "god is made up from what i saw in reality" as if you expected to see spirit. not seeing doesnot mean something is not real. you only see physical stuff. the same expectation for science... science discussed observation... no expectation for science to discuss spiritual so the absence is no indication.

[strateguy632]

to odd, content "boom done" since when is "absence" of evidence proof either way. i do not see through walls so no table in that room kuz i can't see? what expectation for science... science discussed observation... no expectation for science to discuss spiritual, so the absence "no scientific articles nor evidence" is due to the topic and is no indication.

[Juxtapose]

@strateguy632 there is no proof of these "spirits" though.

[Juxtapose]

No proof of god or gods.. just belief.

[Simslover92]

I have faith that God exists.

[OddBeMe]

Fair enough. I just hear a lot of people say “evidence” is why or both strangely. Can’t be both.

[Tecilla]

Both

[OddBeMe]

Can’t. Literally impossible.

[Tecilla]

Yeah everything's impossible until you see it and then you almost crap your pants

[OddBeMe]

If I see that’s evidence and I know longer need faith do I?

[Tecilla]

When the Israelites saw Moses going up the mountain and talk to God himself, and other miracles, they had proof and yet some of them didn't have enough faith and still decided to worship other gods. So, I believe in a way you do. I understand what you mean though.

[OddBeMe]

At least you understand. But literally…you either have evidence, like seeing something in the clouds that could be a god…or you don’t and just believe on evidence.

Your story- and it’s just an unfounded story- those other Israelites had “evidence” of Moses’ god, and faith in other gods. That’s not the same as what we’re talking about unless you believe in multiple gods.

[msc545]

A little bit.

[OddBeMe]

Of what? There’s a goddamn or in the question everyone’s missing! Lol

[Anonymous]

Yes, plenty.

[OddBeMe]

Of what? This Q has an “or” in the middle.

[Opinion Owner]

Where did you come from?

[OddBeMe]

I own this q

[Opinion Owner]

You were created by GAG?