Why do Jews not believe that Jesus was the Messiah?

[Hellraiser1984]

I'm an atheist. I just want to know why. No offense meant to any Jewish members.

[WintersDaughter]

There are specific criterias to be fulfilled before anyone can be acknowledged as the Jewish Messiah.

1) He must be Jewish.

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah and a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon.

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel.

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

5) He must bring world peace.

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d.

It can only be argued that Jesus fits the first one, being Jewish. Therefore he is NOT the Jewish messiah.

For more information, you can check outhttps//www. jewsforjudaism. org/

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter So I am not a Jew hater. In fact I support the Jews and Israel, but I can't understand, why is it that Jews do not believe the prophecy of Jesus in your own (and ours) Old Testament?

[WintersDaughter]

Because there is no prophecy of jesus in Judaism

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter How? When your own Torah IS the Old Testament. The prophecy of Jesus and his crucifixion is right there in Isaiah.

[WintersDaughter]

The Torah is not the Old Testament. A lot of verses have been changed to alter the meaning.

There is no prophecy about jesus in Isaiah.

But hey, we can go over this. Where do you think there's a prophecy about jesus?

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter So if the Torah isn't the OT then who changed it?

There is a prophecy. In Isaiah 53

[WintersDaughter]

Whoever wrote the Christian Bible mistranslated it. It was never Jewish writing in the first place.

Where is Isaiah 53? Give me quotes.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter Oh bother. People are always using "mistranslation" to discredit the Bible.

It’s in the OT. Read the chapter and you'll see it.

[WintersDaughter]

Nope, show me exactly where this prophecy is.

I've already read the chapter, I've read all of Isaiah, multiple times. There's absolutely nothing about jesus.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter The entire chapter IS the prophecy. It speaks in the form of people who describe Jesus AFTER he came and died. Like a look into the future.

"4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

"by his stripes we are healed"

These are about him being on the cross.

"7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth."

[WintersDaughter]

There is no line about "his stripes" it's "by his bruises"

Fun fact about Isaiah, there are NO chapters. The "chapters" were put in later to make reading it easier, its actually one giant scroll. If you read it all together, like it's meant to be read, it's very clear that Isaiah is talking about Israel.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter Stripes can still mean bruises, and either way it is still describing them as part of his sacrifice.

I'm aware it was one whole scroll. How does it in any way describe Israel?

[WintersDaughter]

The personification of Israel is portrayed as being afflicted and mistreated by the OTHER nations, who eventually realize is it all THEIR fault the poor guy is in such bad shape, and they become repentant. And THEN the personified Israel recuperates, lives a long life, and has a bunch of children.

All throughout Isaiah, Israel is talked about as the suffering servant. Isaiah 52 is talking about Israel, aka the suffering servant, and 53 is a direct continuation of what's being said... about Israel.

And Isaiah 54, a direct continuation of 53, is still talking about Israel.

54:17: No weapon formed against you shall succeed, and every tongue that contends with you at law You shall defeat. Such is the lot of GOD’s servants, Such their triumph through Me—declares GOD.

God's servant, aka Israel. We know this because the servant has been called Israel throughout Isaiah.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter Those descriptions of Israel are all through the prophetic books. God said that Israel would be hated by the world but would always succeed, such as the book of Zechariah. Jesus ALSO said he would be hated by the world, and that we would be hated for his sake as well because we believe in him.

The very end of 53 is an exact description of Jesus and his sacrifice:

"Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors, (on the cross with the others who were crucified)
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors." (meaning through his sacrifice, anyone can come to him, call on his name, etc.)

I see nothing in that entire chapter that would depict Israel as a lone savior like that.

[WintersDaughter]

What is said about jesus in your Bible has nothing to do with Judaism, what jesus says about himself has no meaning in Judaism or any Jewish texts. Anyone can come along AFTER and say something is about them. Anyone can come along and make it about them.

Isaiah is about Israel, 100%. There isn't a section in it that's about jesus, there isn't a prophecy about jesus. In Judaism, a prophecy must be completed within a prophets lifetime, aka before they die.

Again, there are NO chapters in Isaiah, so let's look at 54. The other half of what's being said.

54:3: For you shall spread out to the right and the left; Your offspring shall dispossess nations And shall people the desolate towns.

Last I checked, jesus has no children. You know who does? The people of Israel.

And again, the end of 54: No weapon formed against you Shall succeed, And every tongue that contends with you at law You shall defeat. Such is the lot of GOD’s servants, Such their triumph through Me—declares GOD.

Such is the lot of Gods servants... Meaning everything that was said (53 and 54) is about Gods servants... aka Israel. This is why you need to read it ALL. Not just a little section or one verse.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter Those 2 chapters are not combined. 54 jumps into a totally different message about barren women, or a symbolism of barren women.

"In Judaism, a prophecy must be completed within a prophets lifetime, aka before they die."
- and yet Daniel prophesied of things to happen long after he died, and things that still haven't happened yet (Dan.12)

Everything in 53 is clearly about the Messiah.

[WintersDaughter]

Literally all of Isaiah is combined lmao. It's all ONE SCROLL. 54 is a direct continuation of what's being said in 53. There are NO chapters in Isaiah, so there's no Isaiah 53 and no Isaiah 54. The chapters were only put in later to make reading easier. Which you said you knew, but I don't think you actually understand what that means. There's a reason why Jews don't believe in jesus, because we know what our writings say and how to read them. That's why Jews aren't confused about what Isaiah is talking about.

Daniel is not considered a prophet in Judaism. His visions of the future were not that of a prophets mission, but instead to be written down for future generations.

[ManOnFire]

@WintersDaughter All of the original biblical texts are written non-stop without chapters, but that doesn't mean that all of that non-stop writing runs into everything or is linked to everything that comes next. Like Genesis 11 is a complete leap in time to the tower of Babel, when chapter 10 was just telling us all of Noah's offspring. I like that chapters have been created, it makes the Bible easier to search and pinpoint parts.

There is a Jewish (or Israeli) guy with his own channel on YouTube called SO BE IT! where he talks to other Jews about Isaiah 53 and other parts of the Bible. It's interesting. But, I think we've gone over this enough.

[WintersDaughter]

That's a christian channel lmao. It's a channel where christians take advantage of Jews who dont know Judaism and converts them... why would i watch that bs? I'm not going to watch a christian talk falsely about Judaism. If you want to know about Judaism, ask a JEW, not a christian.

Either listen to the Jews about our religion, or don't. It's up to you. Doesn't change the fact that jesus isn't in Judaism. Doesn't change the fact that Isaiah is talking about Israel.

[Hellraiser1984]

The Romans basically invented modern Christianity as a unifier for the empire and a way to make money and control people. They created the Bible. The Bible is a human invention. I don't think it was ever meant to be read by anyone except the clergy. It is a tool of lies oppression, hatred and ignorance. To me the Bible is like if you took game of thrones and cut it down to a g rating. Then you only broadcast it to say the west coast while the east Coast gets the full show. There's so many errors and contradictions and made up stuff it's basically useless. The Romans decided what was going to go into it and they just chose what made it sound good to people. The Romans sucked. They were a lot like the USA. Anyway I have always had my suspicions about Christ and through my years of research they were true. He wasn't the Messiah and never could be.

[ManOnFire]

@Hellraiser1984 The Roman CATHOLIC church used the Bible to control people. The Bible itself had nothing to do with Roman politics or deception. It was the Romans who killed Jesus, and killed the apostle Paul as well. Neither of these men were even in favor of the Romans. Hell, it was governor Felix who literally fell into depression when Paul told him and his wife that if you want to live forever in Christ you need to give up your worldly things and worldly ways.

The problem is not the Bible - or even Judaism - the problem is MEN who USE the Bible to do everything wrong that they want to do. All of those things were covered in the later books of the New Testament because the apostles already knew men would bring deception and corruption.

[ManOnFire]

Because Jesus in the New Testament is not the guy they were expecting. Jesus wasn't buddy buddy with the fraternities of the Pharisees and Sadducees and high priests - and he made that clear. He didn't like those guys and they didn't like him because he told the truth about them. Jesus also preached the truth about the soul, heaven and hell, living humbly, etc. What the Pharisee and Sadducee cliques didn't like hearing either.

Also the Jews were expecting their savior to command them to fight against the Romans so that they could be free. Jesus didn't. So they were disappointed. So after his death the Jews were like "Nah, that wasn't the right guy. We'll just keep waiting on the real one to show up."

[BCRanger10]

One conventional (though disputed) explanation is that they thought that He would be some kind of military liberator who would save them from the Romans.

According however to this article, the Jews "aren't ready" to acknowledge Him as the Son of God. They also reject Him because He made Himself equal with God, claimed that He was greater than their temple, and so forth.

[Screenwriter]

It's not part of their religion. They don't believe the messiah has come. Islamic people don't, Buddhists don't believe in a messiah period, nor do Confucists or a host of other religions/theological positions.

The list is too long to put down here. Read a book on comparative religions. You'll find out about the various beliefs for hundreds of religions.

[Hellraiser1984]

If I remember the Messiah was supposed to be fully human not Yahweh incarnate in human form. There are criteria for the Messiah that yeshua did not meet and tasks the Messiah was supposed to achieve during his lifetime and those we're not accomplished either.

[contentious]

How do you imagine Christianity started? A bunch of Jewish guys were following around the King of the Jew Jesus and then the message he spoke spread across the world through the Jews. Christianity is a sect of Judaism. Without Jews, there is no Christianity...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/IbyH2V8nYlwhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/Io7H8cxJjeI

Too many retards are listening to people like Candace Owens...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Acq6ZwyEM2E

[Anonymous]

Why the belief in a human messiah?
Some people believe that the world will “evolve” by itself into a messianic era without a human figurehead. Judaism rejects this belief. Human history has been dominated by empire builders greedy for power.

Others believe in Armageddon—that the world will self-destruct, either by nuclear war or by terrorism. Again, Judaism rejects this view.

Our prophets speak of the advent of a human leader, of a magnitude that the world has not yet experienced. His unique example and leadership will inspire mankind to change direction.

(Chabad. org)

[Agape93]

Because he didn't fit their criteria, and the fact he didn't return as promised in the year of jubilee kinda confirmed it

[Hellraiser1984]

That's what I thought. So basically the Roman government used the story of yeshua/apollonius to save money and make money and control people through false salvation and fear. According to Judaism there is no hell. Just a period of cleansing your soul and then rejoining with Yahweh/El. If the Romans had never switched from their religion of Jupiter and such Christianity would have just faded away or be some obscure cult. So I'm wasting my time and my money going to a Christian church. I always thought Christianity was a undisciplined fraud. According to it you could kill 500 people repent right before the cops shoot and go to heaven. Christians have turned heaven into Disneyland. Jewish heaven is much different. I agree with the Jews about yeshua. Thanks for the answer.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

They have about as much reason to believe Jesus is the messiah as they do for Mohammed. It’s a matter of what they believe and in the eyes of most Jewish folks the messiah has not come.

[Hellraiser1984]

Because Jesus didn't do what the Messiah was prophecized to complete right? Rebuild the temple, just a man not Yahweh incarnate, bring world peace? I heard once that if the man claiming to be the Messiah doesn't complete even one of the tasks he is disqualified as being the Messiah. The temple was still standing during Jesus time and the Messiah was achieve these tasks within his lifetime. He was supposed to be human.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yeah, and Jesus claiming to be the son of god probably did disqualify him to a certain degrer

[Dongie]

While I'm not Jewish I do believe they have a Viele over their eyes placed there by Christ until the time of His return upon the Mount of Olives.

[John_And_Elijah]

Because they're not real Jews.

[jahaims]

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