Why do Anti-Catholics say the Catholic Church sat back & did nothing in WW2?

[Gwendoline]

The Catholic Church worked mostly in secret and members often spoke out publically to save 800,000 Jews and 2579 priests were sent to Dachau out of 2,720 Christian ministers in the whole Reich, 1043 of those Catholic clergy would not make it out alive being gassed, given lethel injection, shot, experimented on and beaten to death, dying of disease, ilness, bad conditions and starvation. Priests like:

Blessed Engelmar Unzeitig (1911–1945) He was a professed member of the Mariannhill Missionaries. The Gestapo arrested Unzeitig on 21 April 1941 for defending Jews in his sermons and sent him to the Dachau concentration camp without a trial on 8 June 1941. In the autumn of 1944 he volunteered to help in catering to victims of typhoid but he soon contracted the disease himself. Unzeitig died of the disease on 2 March 1945 and was cremated. He became known as the "Angel of Dachau".

Titus Brandsma, Dutch Carmelite father and priest and professor of philosophy, died 26 July 1942. After being held prisoner in Scheveningen, Amersfoort, and Cleves, Brandsma was transferred to the Dachau concentration camp, arriving there on 19 June. His health quickly gave way, and he was transferred to the camp hospital. He died on 26 July 1942, from a lethal injection administered by a nurse of the Allgemeine SS, as part of their program of medical experimentation on the prisoners.

There are too many too list, nearly 2,720 to list, not mentioning those that successfully evaded gestapo & SS arrest helping Jews and others all over the extent of the third Reich building networks for escapr routes, sanctuaries, medical care etc. Does that sound like sitting back. There was a reason Catholic churches were closed all over the reich and Catholic organisations closed down? Let's not also forget the activities of the Knights of Malta in WW2.

[Anonymous]

Can we just not be so quick to pull out “anti- ___”

The thing is ‘Anti Catholics’ is founded in people not subscribing to that religion, same with Anti Muslim, Anti Jew, Anti Christian, Anti Hindu, Anti whatever. That could be a lot of context missing since the spectrum is so wide.

To those quick to judge on both sides, I believe we should look at things and be open to different perspectives.

You provided a lot of information of the Catholics being helpful in World War II, which I’ll research further and look into it. Right now I just wanted to say, I don’t subscribe to any religion (at least not full time) and am open to all sides & no sides and seeing the bigger picture. You were right about the Lutheran stuff, curious about this.

[Opinion Owner]

I do want to criticize The Catholic Church after World War II, where they were slow to implement positive change to The Church’s teachings and practices to include friendly relations also respect towards those of other religious background. In 1965 by Pope Paul VI the Nostra aetate was made a part of The Church though that should’ve happened right after World War II seems good though that is a critique I have.

[Gwendoline]

Takes 20 years to write and consider these things, then make a decision.
Jewish treatment of Christian in Israel, Gaza and Lebanon is not too good, with Christians facing persecution starting in 1948.

[Opinion Owner]

@gwendoline , you know I’m neutral since I defended you and attacked the weirdos making fun / slanderising the Catholic Church
I don’t care to be pointing fingers at other religions, right now I’m focused on Catholic Church.
Can you provide a source of the official channels to ‘write and consider these things, then make a decision’ please?
I’m criticizing because I genuinely feel that way, not because I don’t hate Catholics.

[Stevepro68]

Unfortunately the Nazi regime camped and executed anyone who spoke out against the regime. So unfortunately there were catholic priests individualism that helped people. Just like there were a minority of Germans who spoke out and tried to help and got killed for it. The majority of criticism comes from the Vatican and it a precarious situation in fascist Germany. How despite it's considerable influence did little to bring the atrocities of fascist Germany to the world. It was painfully silent in its criticism of the Nazi anti Semitic stance from the begining. Plus it's early collaboration with the Nazi party prior to WWII
Even though it has the resources and platform to make a difference it didn't.

[Gwendoline]

Not individual priests, most of the Catholic clergy in Europe directed by the Vatican.
The Vatican knew less than allied governments who knew before the Vatican in late 41and waited until almost 1943 to say anything and what did their speaking out do, the Holocaust continued for another 2 years, D-Day wasn't moved forward. From the beginning with rise of nazism the Catholic Church came under persecution, catholic churches and Catholic organisations were closed down to stop priests speaking out.

[Gwendoline]

94.88% of all Christian clerics put into concentration camps from all over Europe were Catholic priests just to put it into perspective.

Engelmar Unzeitig was Gestapo arrested Unzeitig on 21 April 1941 for defending Jews in his sermons and sent him to the Dachau concentration camp without a trial on 8 June 1941. In the autumn of 1944 he volunteered to help in catering to victims of typhoid but he soon contracted the disease himself. Unzeitig died of the disease on 2 March 1945 and was cremated. He became known as the "Angel of Dachau".

This Priest and others speaking out is why the Nazis shut Catholic churches down in 1941.

[Stevepro68]

D day and military activities all have nothing to do with the Vatican.
The Vatican signed a neutrality pact with the Nazis in 1933.
1. Papers show the Vatican was aware of mass slaughter of Jews in fall 1942.
2. The same papers shows that the pontiff told the US government that it was unable to confirm news of Nazi crimes.
3. The future Pope Paul Assistant to the current Pope at the time. Had spoke to 2 eyewitnesses to the atrocities and withheld that from the US when asked to confirm.
4 the Vatican secretary of state at the time similarly denied the atrocities when asked about the US envoy to the Vatican.
Very much like Jesus denier they lacked the fortitude to face Mussolini and Hitler because they were more concerned about their future and possible repercussions.
There was a key Vatican document found in the Vatican papers and Pope pius XII which was clearly anti-Semitic and demonstrates a personal reason why he did not speak out.
I assume that because the Vatican unsealed these documents they are aware and take culpability for this failure.
Individual priests stood up and some did not.
Like Alois Hudal who gave false identification papers to Nazis so that they could escape to South America.

[Gwendoline]

The US government had a neutrality agreement with Nazi Germany up until Hitler declared war, why even us companies like ford had factories in Germany and were compensated by the us government after ww2 for the USAF bombing them.
1. The US & British knew before the Vatican did and waited a whole year. At no point up
2. Papers show that the Vatican had reports of the Holocaust but not being a military power with an airforce, code breakers or military intelligence could not confirm these reports. They also didn't not know before the US or British. And the priests that suffered or died in the Holocaust weren't able to report this to the Vatican.
3. Takes more than two eye witnesses to constitute enough evidence that 11 million people including Catholic priests were being murdered.
4. US Envoy to the Vatican? The US government was at war in December 1941 with the AXIS including Italy before anyone became aware of the Holocaust and the allies would not capture Rome until 4th of June 1944 (2 days b4 D-Day) so how would the US envoy be able to ask the Vatican anything until 3 years after anyone knew anything? Sounds like nonsense.
US intelligence helped a lot of nazis escape to south America due to them being anti-communist. A lot of German refugees were given help to escape lest they end up in siberian gulags or executed in like the thousands of Polish soldiers when the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939.
The Vatican speaking out would have not stopped the Holocaust and would only have added dead bodies to it and all the lives save during ww2 by the Catholic Church would not have been saved.

[Gwendoline]

5. The British and American government before and during WW2 prevented Jewish refugees from leaving Germany. When they found out about the Holocaust, they waited a year to denounce it. Having knowledge of the Holocaust they made no attempt to speed up D-Day to save them and their spy and sabotage networks in Europe made no attempt to rescue them or save those in hiding. The Vatican saved 800,000 Jews in Europe during WW2, that would not be possible with merely individual priests. Catholic churches in the reich were shut in WW2 to stop priests speaking out about the nazi regime.

[Stevepro68]

Yes collectively individual priests did rescue Jews by the biggest percentage by baptizing and getting people out. The 800k is congested. But let's say at least half that number is big in a worst case scenario. The real issue has to do with the Vatican. This kind of fish gallop of facts doesn't really address the elephant.. which by the Vatican own documents they were asked and the denied or minimized atrocities. If the US new why would they ask? And if it was all for show why was it kept secret by the Vatican? Lastly the US envoy to the Vatican was Myron c Taylor and he kept that post from pre war through to Truman. Even during the war years. You asked why people have issue with the Catholic Church these are the historical answers. Could the UD have some more, Soviet Union, Germans. The answer is yes. Could the Vatican have some more? Particularly if the Pope stood up and screamed to the world and demanded that these atrocities be dealt with. It would have had a greater impact on the Nazis than anything the individual priests could have done. Just for starters it would have forced the allies to make camp liberation a military priority. It wasn't until the Germans were being rolled back did operation Reinhardt happen. But it would have put him at risk. And he was silent. And the evidence clearly shows he knew and was silent. By the vaticans oqn admission eventually.

[Gwendoline]

There's no way individual priests and nuns could save that many on their own unless they were part of an overall church network.
You see the point is how would the us ask the Vatican anything as the Vatican was inside the AXIS until 2 days before D-Day in 1944 and the Americans already knew about the Holocaust at the end of 1941 and declared it in 1942. All the Vatican knew about the Holocaust was unconfirmed reports that they had no way of confirming or envisioning the scale. The Vatican didn't know about the Holocaust until the alli. es announced it after a year of knowing.
How would the Pope have stood up and screamed anything to the world when the Vatican was inside the AXIS? Who would hear? Do you think people living in the AXIS heard anything when the allies announced the Holocaust. Churches were already shut.
Also he was not silent for on Christmas 1942 he denounced the Holocaust on Vatican radio after the allies had confirmed what was going on. The allies were not going to be in Poland and east Germany until late 1945-early 45 and nothing would have changed that, the Vatican wouldn't have been able to save anyone if all their priests, nuns, monks and lay catholics had been thrown into concentration camps.

[Stevepro68]

That is not what the vaticans own documents released by Pope Francis indicated as far as your timeline indicates. There is still a lot of information yet to be unpacked it has been 3 years.

[Gwendoline]

The timeline is pretty clear and already well documented.

[FreyaRed]

Vatican saved lot of Nazis with giving them Vatican passport so they can flee to Argentina. Of course they told it was just help dictated by god's love but the truth is, those Nazis paid a lot for it. Disgusting

[WhitneySnow]

I think people were saying that Pope Pius XII could have done more publicly to speak out against fascism

[Gwendoline]

But then there would have been a lot less good work done by the church in ww2, a lot more dead and fewer saved.

[WhitneySnow]

Hmm. Maybe. Haven’t really studied it enough to be sure.

[abc3643]

The Catholic Church couldn't have done anything anyway. It doesn't have a real army and it's right in the middle of fascist Italy during World War II.

[Gwendoline]

Yes speaking out would have stopped them helping people to escape

[strateguy632]

Engelmar Unzeitig was NOT the vatican!

They knew about "Jews got mass murdered" in 1942, as showed in vatican documents, but lied "we did not know". Peetty god fearing to lie... Every other tragedy which is smaller than: "mass murder of trainloads of jews" vatican made a fuss but not jews.

They even made a fuss about climate change but not mass murder of jews!

[onedarkcloud]

The anti-catholic are just showing they don't do their research! Just like the AMERICA LAST Democrats. they throw shit against the wall to see what sticks just like the limited talent Springsteen did on 5/15/2025 where hundreds if not thousands of people had to listen to him blather on about Trump when they paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars to hear him sing not lectured about his hate for Trump

[loveslongnails]

There is much open debate and investigation into the extent of both help from the Catholic Church and possible collaboration with the Nazi's from the Vatican. I haven't done enough research on the topic to offer a valid opinion on the specifics of their actions during the war. Suffice it say, they were never strong proponents of the Jews, and Vatican records are not made available to researchers on this subject.

[Gwendoline]

Still saved 800,000. Still had their churches shut down. Still represented the vast majority of clergy in concentration camps. Still provided sanctuary and medical care for the resistance

[loveslongnails]

That they helped save people was good, and for that praise is due. Yes, they were the vast majority of clergy in concentration camps. That much is documented. As I don't know too much about their other actions between 1936 and 1945, I can't speak on it.

[Gwendoline]

Not just priests but lay members of the Catholic Church too.
For instance Fritz Gerlich of Catholic Action in Germany after the Nazis seized power on 30 January 1933, Gerlich was arrested on 9 March 1933 and held at the Dachau concentration camp, where he was shot on 30 June 1934 during the Night of the Long Knives. He spoke out against anti Semitic, the nazis and nazi racial science.
Erich Klausener was a German Catholic politician and Catholic martyr in the "Night of the Long Knives", a purge that took place in Nazi Germany from 30 June to 2 July 1934, when the Nazi regime carried out a series of political murders. He was part of Catholic Action and former Police Chief of Prussia. He had spoken out against the Nazi regime.
Adalbert Probst was a Catholic Youth leader in Germany during Nazi period. He was killed during Hitler's 1934 Night of the Long Knives purge. Probst was national director of the Catholic Youth Sports Association. The Catholic Church in Germany had resisted attempts by the new Nazi Government to close its youth organisations.
Catholic bishops, priests, and lay leaders had criticized National Socialism since its inception in the early 1920s. when the Hitler movement was still small and apparently insignificant, German Catholic ecclesiastics recognized its inherent threat to certain beliefs and principles of their Church". Catholic sermons and newspapers vigorously denounced Nazism and accused it of espousing neopaganism, and Catholic priests forbade believers from joining the NSDAP. Catholic bishops issued several condemnations of the NSDAP starting in 1930 and 1931.
In the 1936 campaign against monasteries and convents, the authorities charged 276 members of religious orders with "homosexuality" trials of priests, monks, lay brothers and nuns for "immorality" peaked in 1935–36.

[AviatorTom]

When a person is anti anything, they will do whatever they can to attack with negativity.

[strateguy632]

Really? You got swayed that 2,000 deaths is worse than six million?

[Gwendoline]

@strateguy632 it wasn't just 6 million, another 5 million non Jews, 20 million Russians, 5 million Polish and 35 million Chinese died in ww2.

[Tamera952]

Not just anti-Catholics say that, regular historians do as well. In short, they could have done more leading up to and during the war, AND they helped some high-level nazis escape through Italy to South American—that’s common knowledge.

[Tamera952]

Besides, that’s the least of the Catholic Church’s worries or historical transgressions!

[Gwendoline]

What more could they have done. They denounced the nazis at the pulpit a rarity for the Catholic Church to even mention politics in church. Leading catholics were killed in the night of the Long Knives. Churches were closed, priests, monks and nuns arrested. They rescued 80,000 jews in Europe, 2000 priests were in belsen concentration camp. The CIA used the Catholic Church to hide nazis all over the world and the church in italy helped a lot of German refugees escape Eastern Europe because if a wermarct soldier had fought on the eastern front they were sent to die in siberia

[Tamera952]

What more? I don’t know. I’m not getting into the weeds on antidotal instances. The main takeaway generally is that as a whole organization was mostly silent when they could have been more outspoken about it. You weren’t there, I wasn’t there, who knows. Hindsight is always 2020. I’m sure there were a heroic few who did what they could—but it’s viewed as a missed opportunity. Worse, is the helping fleeing officials via Austria to Italy. I think that is in my opinion a far worse crime.

[Gwendoline]

More than a few helped, it was done as an organisation and when governments of Europe weren't doing anything they did.
They helped a lot of wermarct soldiers avoid dying in siberian death camps.

[Tamera952]

Ok good for them.

[BonzoInBitburg]

There were some Catholic leaders who were sympathetic towards the Nazis and aided in setting up ratlines as escape routes to get Nazis and other fascists out of Europe.

[Gwendoline]

They may or may not have had any idea who they were. A lot of German military personel fled West hoping to get away through allied lines because if they had been fighting in the east then by allied agreement they were to be turned over to the Soviets to face death or the gulag like Polish soldiers captured in the 1939 invasion of Poland were so naturallythe catholic church was helping them while at the same time in the same monasteries helping jewish and eastern European refugees. A lot of German military fled to Spain which was fascist until the 1980s. Many also joined the French &Spanish Foreign legion to escape. The British & American intelligence services were also using these rat lines to move ex German & SS soldiers to South America because of their strong anti-communist beliefs, and of course operation paperclip. Many also ended up in Arab countries helping with their military and industry.
The Red Cross also provided passports that a lot of nazi war criminals used to escape

[Makeushiver]

It took awjile for them to step up to the plate but then again they had the proto fascist for a decade before Adolf showed up

[Gwendoline]

They were stepping up to the plate right away. There's a reason why as soon as the nazis got to power that they went straight after the Catholic Church, Catholic parties, Catholic priests, catholic monks, catholic nuns, catholic youth organisations, catholic schools and lay Catholic political parties and leaders.
The Catholic church was denouncing Nazism in Germany in the 1920s.

[AndrésC64]

They may not have done nothing, but they certainly could have done more. Even the Catholic Church itself acknowledges this fact and they apologized for it.

[Gwendoline]

Maybe but hindsight is 20/20 and they were already risking much, if theh had done much more they would have been shut down completely and unable to help anyone. Remember 80,000 jews were saved by the Catholic Church in Europe.

[AndrésC64]

The Catholic Church has got to be the scummiest organization on the planet.

[Pterodon]

But look at all the people the Catholic Church had murdered for being Protestant and calling them heretics during the crusades

[Grond21]

The Crusades predate the Protestant Revolution by hundreds of years.

[Gwendoline]

Look at how many catholics were killed by prodestants during the reformation and after.
The crusades were largely a fight back by Europe and Christianity after centuries of invasions by muslim armies.

[Grond21]

Exactly

[Dongie]

They burned thousands at the stake. Joan of Arc one of those.

[Grond21]

Before Martin Luther died, there were over 200 different Protestant denominations and over 50 Protestants had been killed at the hand of other Protestants.

[Gwendoline]

@Dongie the English burned Joan of Arc.

[Dongie]

Along with the church for being a witch.

[Dongie]

I actually believe it was because she showed the men up.

[Dongie]

I googled it. She was tried by a church court, then after being found guilty, handed over to secular authorities. I'd say the church had plenty to do with it.

[Grond21]

Was that the Anglican church, or was it pre-reformation?

[Gwendoline]

@Dongie Joan of Arc was killed because she was too powerful. A danger to the establishment in England and France.

[Dongie]

That reformation didn't occur for a hundred more years.
A danger. And she did what France wanted her to do.

[Pterodon]

@Dongie no she did what God wanted her to do. She told the Church of England at her trial that God wanted the English out of France. The church said “we believe in God too and we don’t believe God would say anything against England in France and unless you recant and say your visions are from satan we will burn you alive!” She stuck to her story

[Gwendoline]

@Dongie think about it. A person whom God speaks to directly. That the people will follow, a person who could crown or dethrone a king. A person like that would be more powerful than any king, noble or Bishop.

[Dongie]

Yeah, they made that clear in the movie. She was great!

[Dongie]

@Pterodon

Yeah, I remember. I saw the old version with that German lady playing her. She looked about 40. And I saw the one with, I think, Mila Jokovich. She was very good.

[Dongie]

Ingrid Bergman. I looked it up.

[Sal_Monella]

That was 80 years ago. Are you stirring up an anti Catholic narrative? Yes.

[strateguy632]

Yes pretending to be a victim, pays in this generation , as we see others getting rewarded and coddled , even when they personally did not suffer.
But back to topic : poland was mostly CATHOLIC , just imagine if the pope would tell his FOLLOWERS, "don't do what book mein kampf said" they had committed to POPE and would have resisted cooperation in the death "camps" which the germans ran in poland... Instead of joining... the "action" but...
poland had many "pogroms" to kill jews so a death camp was a "legal dream come true" for polish catholics.

[Gwendoline]

@strateguy632 the nazis basically followed the blue print of Martin Luther.

[Panthero80]

Because they hate the Church and don't want to look at objective facts.

[beefcakebradybatson]

The Pope of the era made common cause with the Nazis because of their anti-Communist stance.

[Gwendoline]

While the nazis executed it priests and closed its churches down? No the Pope ensure the church survived so it could work behind the scenes rescuing Jews and others. The prodestant churches in Germany basically walked hand in hand with the nazis.

[beefcakebradybatson]

ALL churches cozened the Nazis;perhaps less so the Catholic church.

[Gwendoline]

98% of all clergy in concentration camps were Catholic priests. There is a reason why Catholic churches were shut in third reich

[Dongie]

Have you read the Odessa file? The secret passage out of Germany to South America?

[Dongie]

For the nazi wanted for war crimes.

[Gwendoline]

Isn't that a novel. It's kind like the Da Vinci code or 50 shades.

[Dongie]

It trekked through a pass between Switzerland and Austria into Italy down to a cheese town on the coast of West Italy. Then to Argentina.
Still, I'm sure there were Catholic priests and all that did a lot of good. There are also those who helped the nazis.

[Gwendoline]

"The Odessa File" is a novel and film about a journalist's pursuit of a former SS officer and concentration camp commandant, now living in post-war Germany, and the organization that protects him, ODESSA. The story, set in 1963, revolves around Peter Miller, who, after encountering a diary detailing the crimes of Eduard Roschmann, seeks to bring him to justice.

[Dongie]

Do you think it's fiction?

[Dongie]

It's based on the actual use of the trail through Austria/Switzerland into Italy. To- I'll look up the name of the city.

[Dongie]

GENOA

[Gwendoline]

It's litteraly a fictional novel.

[Dongie]

Yes, based on teal events.

[Dongie]

*real

[MrChinaski]

ummm... because they sat back and did nothing... they weren't alone, there were many backsitters.

[Gwendoline]

Should they have sent in the Swiss guard? They couldn't even save their own priests and Catholic parishioners from the Holocaust. But what they could do is save 800,000 jews all over Europe hiding them in monasteries, churches, moving them to safe countries and providing false documentation. They also supplied priests and medical services to the allies all over the world. Not sure what youbwould have had the church do, when the prodestant churches in Europe gladly allowed themselves to be folded into the nazi regime because the antisemitic nazi rhetoric was inspired by Martin Luther the Catholic Church spoke out and was silenced and persecuted

[MrChinaski]

You make a fair point. On a point of order, best estimates are it was about 6 million jews killed, not 800,000, but I don't think that affects your point much.

I'm going to try to be moderate. The Catholic Church has done good things and bad things. Charity work good. Bringing solace to their followers in times of need good. Supporting the spread of AIDS in Africa by advocating not using condoms, not good. Sodomising young choir boys, not good.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I think a degree of balance is warranted.

[MrChinaski]

For the record, I understand the Swiss Guard actually does have an armed regiment. i. e. with guns, not merely halberds and swanky uniforms. But no of course you are right that deploying it would have made not a jittery jot of difference to WW2.

[Gwendoline]

800,000 saved by the Catholic Church. It was 11 million who died in the Holocaust, 6 million were jews.
The spread of aids has little to do with condoms but cultural things such as a witch doctor telling men with aids that the only way to cure aids is to rape a virgin girl.

[Gwendoline]

Also you are starting to see organisations that have not taken child protection measures like the Catholic Church get caught up in child abuse and abuse scandals.
For instance Australian sport organisations like cricket, aussie rules and gymnastics are coming under fire for abuse that's happening now rather than historic cases.

[jahaims]

The catholic church ran rat lines for the nazis

[Gwendoline]

So did the Arabs and allied intelligence and the red cross, as well as Spain and France. The Catholic Church helped refugees of many nationalities escape war torn Europe especially in the east. There were a lot of Wermarct soldiers who didn't want to end up in gulags in siberia or to have happen to them what the Soviets did to captured Polish soldiers in1939.

[shortster]

Most people don't know history that well.

[PrettyCrumblBb]

Didn't they work with Hitler?