Why don't more Christians grasp this?

[Anonymous]

[BCRanger10]

I should lay down a quick ground rule. Christianity is principally about worshipping God. Helping people, while important, ought to be a necessary effect of such.

With that being said, helping yourself is actually also itself a very necessary aspect of Christianity. If, given a choice between eternal joy and eternal damnation, someone wants eternal bliss and joy, then they will do the things that will get them there. So like it or not, there is in Christianity (and everything else in life) a certain degree of self-interest.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, you'll forgive me if I ask those who say things like what you've posted here to make up their minds. I've been reliably informed over the years that Christianity is about control, that you don't think for yourself, that you're a slave, that you have no freedom, blah blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. So which is it? Should a faithful practicing Christian submit to the teachings of the religion or should he not? Because at this point, it's Aesop's Fable of the boy, the man, and the donkey. No one's happy, not matter what you do or how or why, so should a guy like me even bother trying explain any further?

[WhiteSteve]

I saw something the other day that really resonated with me. It was a video of a young lady who is a former Christian Fundamentalist and Christian Nationalist…

https://www.youtube.com/embed/KaQPBPeDzu4

Her second point is the one that really hit me. These people walk around their daily lives believing most people will be eternally tortured in Hell, they go around their lives thinking this to be true about almost everyone they interact with, with requires them to develop cognitive dissonance with other people’s fates, resulting in a shut-off of their empathy and feelings.

So I think that’s why we get such shitty worldviews and resulting behavior out of that camp. They stifle their own humanity psychologically in order to embrace the cult they belong to. Also, if you’re already in one cult, you’ve demonstrated that you’re prone to being hustled, so MAGA and hardcore Christianity are the best marriage Donald Trump could ever hope to have.

[Screenwriter]

Well, there is a lot of biblical picking and choosing using Old Testament ideas. The Old T is about a controlling God and Xtians pick up on this and think it's OK.

Humanism has little to do with biblical Xtianity and Christians only follow the tenets of Humanism, where the two intersect. Humanists would say not to interfere with the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of someone else where Xtians will want to impose their rules and will upon others. This is also true for many in the Islamic faiths.

So, there's little one can do when it is more important to a religious group to follow the RULEs of their religion than it is to respect the rules of humanity. God trumps humans.

[Screenwriter]

@strateguy632 An unusual combination because it was the Age of Reason and Humanism. And the well read and educated Fathers of our country were also philosophers. They didn't only consider the God angle. They considered the man angle.

And I'm a Christian too, so don't talk about "us" Christians. Founding fathers practiced a different brand of xtianity during ages of Enlightenment/Reason.

[msmissydc]

If christians could read they would be very upset. On the other hand, if christians could read they would have grasped this when they joined christianity🤔.

[Anonymous]

Because, man is evil by nature and falls short of the glory of God.

Now that's the excuse. But as Christians we're always supposed to fighting against this fact.

It's funny I made a joke on Facebook the other day that someone took offense to. I only bring this up because thier was no malice in my heart when I posted it. But someone took offense to it nonetheless. They even went as far as to go to my page and dig up an inspirational quote I had posted and call me faux-christian. Now this person doesn't know me. They tried to sum me up from one post. The point I'm trying to make is I wasn't the person they painted me as. Nor am I some super-flawless-Christian that never makes a mistake. I'm human, flawed and hopefully each day trying to be better than I was the previous day.

But back to your question. I brought up this scenario, because the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. Most the time it's a misunderstanding. Am I saying there are not people that are the way you say they are. No. But I am saying is 1. First check you potential bias against Christians. Before I became a Christian I had a bias against them. This is fairly normal. Secondly if you don't have a bias then feel bad for those "Christians". Because they didn't really hear God's word. Or maybe they didn't understand it. Because if you're judging and not loving then you're not really living God's word. And I'll fully admit at many times I'm guilty of this and need to do better. Hopefully I don't do it much.

[SotiCoto]

Probably because it is completely and utterly wrong.
Christianity, like every other religion, is ALL about controlling people... and it has had an awful lot of practice.
You might not get this, but cultivating utter crap about it being a helpful, peaceful and "good" religion is core to the control. It is exactly the same as the way Muslims call Islam "the religion of peace" while they're trying to take over the world like a fungal infection and have everyone who criticises them killed. If these religions weren't always pretending they're in the right while ruining everything, they'd get no new converts and probably end up losing hosts by the millions.
They're diseases of the mind... and if you help spread the lies they tell about themselves then you are helping to spread the disease.

[Summeroflove]

Because some people use religion to control others or the lack there of. Whether these people really believe is a case by case basis that’s between those people and God.

It’s the same way with controlling people there are some more nefarious then others. Some people need control but they are genuinely well meaning people, some people just believe that if they do something for someone without being asked that someone now owes them something, as where others are more intentionally wanting control.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I have seen a lot of catholics understanding this, because the moderate version of Catholicism is the one I see around me. So, in my eyes, they grasp this message already.

I have not much to say about the other branches of Christianity, I don't really see them around, I have no interactions with them except a few online encounters. If I had no access to internet I would have thought of Protestants, Orthodox and their variants as half a reality, half a myth.

I'm certain that there are many Christians, no matter branches they belong to, that lean towards fundamentalism because... I don't know, because the internet connects people, it creates communities. These communities can wish for more fundamentalism, or more moderation, it's hard to evaluate them to understand what's happening on average

[AndrésC64]

You know, as much as I despise fundamentalists, I do have to give them some begrudging respect. At least they follow what the Bible actually says instead of making up shit and twisting it to fit their own agendas.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I can't even say that because anyone trying to follow, literally, the Bible, Old and New testaments, would have to put up with too much dissonance.

Since the Old testament introduces God as a demented dictator you shall obey because he'll whip your ass so better shit your pants and stay in line, while the New one shows God as someone thinking about fraternity and care somewhat

So, for a literal mind, this contradiction must be HELLISH to deal with

[The-Stud]

All that being said...

If someone ever asks you,
"What would Jesus do?"

Remind them that flipping tables and
chasing people around with a whip is
not outside the realms of possibility.

[OneViewpoint]

Because most Evangelical Christians in the US are about as far from Christianity as you can get. They are a sick twisted cult.

[genericname85]

what i as an atheist can't grasp is: if god alledgedly talks to all of you christians. why do all the christians have different opinions on what god wants? is god just evil and telling everyone different things so we start fighting?

[Anonymous]

Religious people, and especially one religion out in the West, are some of the meanest, and yes controlling people I've ever encountered. Not every religious person of course, but more I would say than non-religious people I meet.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Because when you become a massively dominant religion, you’re that much more liable to become corrupted. Shocking, I know

[FreyaRed]

Religions should be love of god but it's just another ideological competition. Most religions barely tolerate other ideologies and always claim to be the true one.

[strateguy632]

Just kuz some anon lied about Christianity does not make it true. Christians accept Bible not memes.

[slatyb]

If they were more thoughtful, they wouldn't be Christians.

[NoDecision]

Sounds more like you are talking about the Trump and Biden administration. 😂🤣

[Anonymous]

Don't worry, not only Christians but all religious people do this. Regardless of religion, all religious people always like to control others.

[strateguy632]

What about those p. c. rules by NON religious that is not "controlling?" bully with cancel culture?
Only Christian tried to save a victim in abortion we are the "controlling " ones?

[Opinion Owner]

Why do you keep attacking non-religious people? If you're so against abortion, do you ever help poor and hungry children whose mothers chose not to abort them? Everything doesn't end with the birth of a child. Do you ever do anything good for a child you claim to have saved from abortion, even though you're not related to them? Do you feed them, buy them clothes, show them affection? Honestly, there's no need to argue with religious people, but I swear, sometimes you really do sound incredibly illogical. As a religious person — and especially as a man — I don't think you have any right to talk about abortion.

[AndrésC64]

Of course they don't. These people aren't pro-life, they are pro-birth. After that they couldn't give a shit less what happens.

[sean1234]

Christianity is about following the laws of God and resisting the temptations of Satan.

[AndrésC64]

And remind us again, who created Satan?

[sean1234]

Remind me who created free will?

[AndrésC64]

Are you going to answer my question?

And as far as free will goes, if your invisible friend is real then we do not have free will. In fact, neither does he. Neither of us can do anything that he doesn't already know is going to happen. He created us exactly as he wanted knowing exactly what was going to happen. He could have created us differently, but he chose to create us this way knowing what was going to happen. He created me knowing that I wasn't going to believe in him. He could have created me differently, but he didn't, he chose to create me this way. That makes it his fault. Additionally, he doesn't have free will because he can't do anything other than what he knows is going to happen. If something happened that he didn't know was going to happen then he would be wrong and therefore not omniscient. You're welcome.

[sean1234]

God created everything, but we still have free will. As usual, you are another person who is trying to understand the nature of God through a tiny human beings perspective. God created licufer, but he wasn't bad in the beginning, he turned bad later.

[sean1234]

... same with the other fallen angels.

[AndrésC64]

Wrong. We do not have free will. We do EXACTLY as God knew we would do BEFORE he created us EXACTLY as he wanted. HE CHOSE to create us this way. HE CHOSE to create me as an atheist. HE COULD HAVE created me differently. But this is the way that HE CHOSE. I can do nothing other than what HE KNEW I WOULD DO BEFORE HE CREATED ME EXACTLY AS HE WANTED. Makes EVERYTHING I DO HIS FAULT. In fact, it makes EVERYTHING HAS EVER HAPPENED AND WILL EVER HAPPEN, HIS FAULT. HE COULD HAVE CREATED DIFFERENTLY, BUT HE CHOSE THIS WAY. THAT'S HIS FAULT.

And HE DOESN'T HAVE FREE WILL BECAUSE HE CAN'T EVEN CHANGE HIS MIND. If he changed his mind, then what he knew was going to happen wouldn't happen, and THEREFORE HE WOULD BE WRONG and NOT OMNISCIENT. He can EITHER KNOW THE FUTURE, OR HE CAN CHANGE IT. HE CAN'T DO BOTH. SO HE'S EITHER NOT OMNISCIENT OR HE HAS NO FREE WILL. You decide.

If I do something INTENTIONALLY, (it's not an accident), of MY OWN VOLITION (No coercion of any type), And I KNOW what the consequences of my action will be, Am I responsible for the consequences of my actions?

[AndrésC64]

WRT Angels, the same thing applies. He KNEW that they were going to tell him to fuck off BEFORE he created them EXACTLY AS HE WANTED. HE COULD HAVE CREATED THEM SO THAT THEY WOULDN'T TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF. BUT HE CREATED THEM SO THAT THEY WOULD TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF. THAT MAKES THEM HIS FAULT TOO.

[sean1234]

Does/did God know the future? YES! Did he put down future events in the bible? YES!

SOOOO, If God says something, it is so, otherwise he would be a liar. Things must happen as they happen. People will do what they do. There is nothing stopping you from seeing the truth. You might side with Jesus any day now. ⏰️⏰️⏰️⏰️⏰️⏰️⏰️🕑🕙🕘🕖🕛🕕

[AndrésC64]

Wrong. Now would you like to answer my question? Let me repeat it for you

If I do something INTENTIONALLY, (it's not an accident), of MY OWN VOLITION (No coercion of any type), And I KNOW what the consequences of my action will be, Am I responsible for the consequences of my actions?

[AndrésC64]

Oh, and by the way, God is a liar. It even says so in your holy book. Try again?

[sean1234]

Yes, you have free will, just as all those in the past had free will, that chose to do evil. God on the other hand is God, he can do no evil. He can bring back the dead. No big deal

[AndrésC64]

Still avoiding my question I see. Are you ever going to even try to answer it?

[sean1234]

I answered your 1st one already if that's the one you are talking about.

[AndrésC64]

Okay, last time I'm going to say this. If you don't answer now this discussion is over. Because you are obviously being dishonest/evasive.

If I do something INTENTIONALLY, (it's not an accident), of MY OWN VOLITION (No coercion of any type), And I KNOW what the consequences of my action will be, Am I responsible for the consequences of my actions?

[sean1234]

Yes? So?

[AndrésC64]

Thank you. That means that I'm actually not responsible, God is. Because he fits every one of those criterion, and he did it before I was even around. So he is responsible. Thank you.

[AndrésC64]

And you know that your God is a liar, right?

[sean1234]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[sean1234]

Why don't you try reading what I said instead of reading what you wanted to see?

Why would God be responsible when he gave YOU laws in his Bible to follow? Laws YOU are hypothetically wanting to break intentionally! People think the 10 Commandments were created with Moses, but they have always existed. The breaking of the Law is why satan was thrown out of heaven.

[sean1234]

Rather should I say why lucifer was thrown out of heaven, he was called the devil and Satan after the fall.

[AndrésC64]

Again. Your invisible friend satisfies every single one of those criterion. He created the universe intentionally, it wasn't a mistake. He did it of his own volition, no one forced him to do it. He knew what was going to happen. That makes him responsible. You just don't like the answer.

[AndrésC64]

Why would you believe your invisible friend when he's a liar?

[sean1234]

You make no sense at all.

[AndrésC64]

I know. Facts make no sense to a Christian. Which part would you like me to explain?

[sean1234]

You have no facts, just opinions. Opinions whispered into your head by Satan.

[AndrésC64]

Wrong. Would you care to make a wager on that? Loser doesn't make another post for a month. Deal?

[sean1234]

Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

[AndrésC64]

So I'll take that as a no, you don't want to take me up on my bet. Typical, all talk but not willing to put your money where your mouth is. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[sean1234]

Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

[AndrésC64]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡

[AndrésC64]

Because most people who claim to be Christian really aren't. They only follow the parts of the Bible that they agree with.

[sean1234]

You are correct here, but it's not just that, people read the Bible through tradition and not what the Bible actually says. Tradition can mean anything. Everything else is just an inconvenience.

[Babygirl_S]

I don’t care about those who visit places of worship and pray to Him but treat a fellow human like me badly. Fake!

[Agape93]

Because most christians aren't christians.

[Anonymous]

I'm not religious, and I can grasp this.