Christians, you believe Jesus is ahuman being just like others or God?

[behnam1999]

What do you exactly believe in?

[TwoToTooTutu2]

Personally I believe he is a man. Though in his ressurection he may have changed.

Most Christians of the Catholic and Protestant variety believe in full divinity. Whereas Orthodox believe in half divinity half humanity.

Or so I do believe.

[behnam1999]

The Orthodox Church also teaches full divinity and full humanity united in one person, not “half and half.” The idea of “half God, half man” is actually rejected by all major Christian groups because it would mean Jesus is neither fully God nor fully man. But if you believe Jesus was a man who only changed after resurrection, then you’re already seeing that he was limited like all humans before that point, and limitations can’t apply to God.

[contentious]

Try again...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2GCng5ufAHU

[strateguy632]

All various chrristians agree jesus "christ" was "more than a man just like others". they debate how much more. Most Christians say jesus is god as john 10 wrote and "the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" titus 2, 13 but others say "and" means 2 people, one god AND one savior.

[BCRanger10]

I believe he is fully God and fully man, like us in all things but sin.

[behnam1999]

If Jesus was “like us in all things but sin,” that means He experienced hunger, thirst, tiredness, and even death — things God cannot experience. How can someone be “fully God” yet have qualities that contradict God’s nature? If His human side can die, but His divine side cannot, aren’t you really talking about two natures, not one fully united being?

[BCRanger10]

"If Jesus was 'like us in all things but sin,' that means He experienced hunger, thirst, tiredness, and even death — things God cannot experience." Why? The Bible specifically mentions times when Jesus felt exhaustion (John 4.6). He experienced thirst (also in John 4) and hunger (Mark 11).

Are you familiar with the concept of what the Church calls the "hypostatic union"?

[behnam1999]

Yes, I’m familiar with the hypostatic union, but it’s precisely the problem. If Jesus’ human nature is limited and His divine nature is unlimited, then these two natures have opposite qualities. If these remain separate, then He isn’t one fully united nature. And if they are truly united, then the contradictions remain: God would be both mortal and immortal, limited and unlimited, which is logically impossible.

[BCRanger10]

Is your understanding that the natures are somehow mixed?

[behnam1999]

No, I understand the orthodox claim, that the two natures aren’t mixed or blended, but united in one person. My point is that even without mixing, the contradiction doesn’t disappear. If the same person is both fully human (limited, mortal, ignorant in some respects) and fully divine (unlimited, immortal, all-knowing), then opposite attributes are being applied to the same subject. Saying “the natures aren’t mixed” doesn’t solve it; it just restates the paradox without removing the logical tension.

[Ariesman81]

Jesus was God in human form

[behnam1999]

If God takes on “human form,” then that form is either fully human (with hunger, sleep, weakness, death) or not truly human. If it’s fully human, then you’re ascribing human limitations to God — which goes against His perfection. If it’s not fully human, then Jesus wasn’t like us and couldn’t truly represent mankind. In either case, this contradicts the idea of the all-powerful, ever-living God who “neither slumbers nor sleeps” (Psalm 121:4).

[Ariesman81]

Yes, God is capable of any and all things. But you would have to dive into the trinity of Christ in order to grasp it. A shortened version being God is, was and will always be three beings in one. Catholics will say Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son referring to Jesus. Very similar to how you can be a father, a son and a soul. One man, three "parts". But I risk being a heretic by explaining it. Best left to the clergy for a better explanation of it.

[behnam1999]

The problem is, saying “God can do anything” doesn’t mean God can do what contradicts His own nature. For example, can God cease to exist? Can He be ignorant? Can He be unjust? No , because those go against His perfection. Limitation, hunger, sleep, and death all go against the nature of the ever-living God.

As for the Trinity, the father/son/soul example you gave isn’t the official teaching , and most theologians say it misrepresents it. But even in the official version, it still ends up with the same logical problem: if the Son truly died, then God died (impossible). If the Son didn’t truly die, then the sacrifice is not what Christians claim it to be.

In Islam, we solve this by affirming that God is absolutely one, eternal, without partners or divisions, and He sends prophets as humans, without mixing divinity into humanity. This keeps God perfect and humans human.

[Ariesman81]

God can do anything. He allows suffering and war as we are separated from him. That could be deemed ignorant by some. When in actuality it is the sinful nature of mankind that keeps us from him.

And according to the Bible, Jesus (the Son of God) resurrected and went back to be one with God. So, yes, Jesus did die.

And I also explained it would be wise to talk to a member of the clergy to better understand the Trinity.

[behnam1999]

I understand your point about human sin causing separation and suffering. Islam agrees that humans are responsible for their actions. But the issue isn’t human sin; it’s attributing limitations like hunger, death, and ignorance to God Himself. That still contradicts God’s nature.

As for Jesus’ death and resurrection, if the Son truly died, then God Himself would have died, which is impossible for an eternal, ever-living God. If God didn’t truly die, then the crucifixion isn’t what Christians claim it to be, a true sacrifice for humanity.

Suggesting we “ask the clergy” doesn’t solve the logical problem. Mysteries and analogies can’t change the fact that God cannot experience human limitations. That’s why in Islam, prophets are fully human, they suffer, struggle, and die, but God remains perfect, eternal, and unaffected.

[Ariesman81]

I understand what you're saying, but you're the one putting limitations on God, not me. To say God cannot do something is a logical fallacy by your own definition.

[behnam1999]

I’m not putting limitations on God; I’m pointing out what is logically possible or impossible for His nature. Saying “God cannot die” isn’t limiting Him, it’s stating a fact about what it means to be eternal and ever-living.

Omnipotence doesn’t mean God can do what is contradictory, like being eternal and non-eternal at the same time, or all-knowing and ignorant at the same time. Claiming Jesus was fully human with limitations and fully God with no limitations falls into that exact contradiction.

[Ariesman81]

Then you don't believe God is capable of all things. And perhaps it's your understanding of God that is flawed and not God himself.

I liken it to a father disciplining his child. To the child, the father doesn't understand and is therefore unjust. While the father, with all his wisdom, is trying to teach his child. From the child's perspective, God is misunderstood. But it doesn't mean God is wrong or unjust.

[behnam1999]

The difference is that a child’s misunderstanding of a father is due to lack of knowledge, but logical contradictions aren’t about limited understanding, they are about what is logically possible.

God’s nature is perfect, eternal, and unchanging. Saying God can die or be ignorant isn’t a “mystery”, it’s a direct contradiction of that nature. It’s like saying “a square circle exists.” No amount of wisdom or hidden knowledge makes a square circle possible.

In Islam, God’s power is absolute, but it is always in harmony with His nature. He can do anything possible, but what contradicts His own essence, like ceasing to exist, becoming ignorant, or being weak, is not power, it’s imperfection.

[Ariesman81]

Well, while i agree with most of what you say, we disagree on the purpose of Jesus.

Could God wipe us all out? If yes, then why doesn't he? The answer is grace. Otherwise known as Jesus.

[behnam1999]

The question of why God would send Jesus is separate from the question of what Jesus is. Even if we agree God is merciful, the issue remains: Can someone be both fully God (eternal, unchanging, all-knowing) and fully man (limited, changing, mortal) without logical contradiction? Grace doesn’t resolve that, it just shifts the topic.

[Ariesman81]

Can a human... no. Can God... yes.

[behnam1999]

If “God can do anything” includes contradictions, then God could also be non-existent while existing, sinful while perfect, or powerless while almighty, which makes no sense. Omnipotence means God can do all things that are possible, but nonsense is still nonsense, no matter who we apply it to.

[Ariesman81]

Yeah. It's the duality of nature. Hot/cold, good/evil, light/dark, male/female... all things created by God... all things contradictory.

[behnam1999]

Those are not true contradictions; hot and cold, male and female, are relative states that can exist without breaking logic. A thing can’t be fully hot and fully cold at the same time in the same way, but that’s what claiming Jesus is fully God and fully man implies. That’s a real logical contradiction, not just a duality like temperature or gender.

[Ariesman81]

And yet God can. Which is where our faith differs.

[behnam1999]

Faith doesn’t make a logical contradiction true. Saying God can be fully limited and fully unlimited at the same time isn’t a matter of perspective or belief, it’s a direct clash of realities. Omnipotence doesn’t mean God can make contradictions possible. Otherwise, God could also make a square circle or a married bachelor; nonsense remains nonsense, even for God.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Jesus is God in human form.

[sean1234]

Jesus is God

[behnam1999]

If Jesus is God, then how could He be hungry, tired, and even die, things God, by definition, cannot do? Do you mean Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time? If so, isn’t that a logical contradiction?

[sean1234]

He didn't have to die if he didn't want to, that being said, Isiah 53 clearly says what was going to happen before it did and since the book of John chapter 1 says Jesus is God and Isiah wrote what he said as all prophets and apostles got their knowledge from God/Jesus, things had to happen the way they did and Jesus knew it well before.

John 1:1,14 KJV:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

-this is more direct. God is God, his nature doesn't have to make sense to us.

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

[behnam1999]

I agree that God’s wisdom is far above ours, but that doesn’t mean God contradicts Himself. Scripture says God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) and cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13). That shows God acts consistently with His nature, not against it. So if Jesus was truly hungry, tired, and died, then by definition he had limitations that God does not have. Saying “God’s nature doesn’t have to make sense” is just another way of accepting contradiction, yet the same Bible says God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).

[sean1234]

Matthew 4:1-11

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

This is all about Satan, his 1st coming is all about people straying from the word of God. Things had to happen the way they did. If he could save himself, then what he basically told Isaiah to write down in chapter 53 would be a lie and the truth would not be in him. This whole thing, from satans fall to the very last page of the bible up to today God judging Satan

Hebrews 2:14-15 explains that Jesus shared humanity so that by his death he could destroy "the one who holds the power of death, that is, the devil," setting free those who were enslaved by fear of death.

[sean1234]

John 16:8-11

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Can't forget this

John 12:31-36

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Jesus is constantly teaching, constantly testing, constantly telling people what they need to hear. There is more on John 12, but I'm not putting the whole chapter here

[behnam1999]

I see your point about Jesus’ mission, temptation, and purpose, that He came to share humanity, fulfill prophecy, and defeat sin and death. But none of that addresses the logical problem I raised. Sharing humanity or dying for a purpose requires limitations, hunger, fatigue, ignorance, and mortality, which are contradictory to God’s eternal, perfect, and all-knowing nature.

Quoting prophecies and missions doesn’t change the fact that if Jesus truly had these limitations, He could not have been fully God. You can say He knew the outcome, taught people, or fulfilled Isaiah 53, but that only proves a human being acting with purpose and foresight, not an eternal, omnipotent God experiencing hunger, weakness, and death.

In short, purpose and prophecy explain why He came, but they don’t resolve the logical contradiction of claiming someone is simultaneously fully human with limitations and fully God without limitations. Faith doesn’t make a contradiction logically possible.

[sean1234]

Philippians 2:6-8 (KJV):
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
John 8:58:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV):

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

[behnam1999]

I see what you’re pointing to with Philippians 2, John 8, and Isaiah 55. But let me explain why these don’t actually solve the contradiction.

Philippians 2 says Jesus “emptied himself” and “took the form of a servant.” But this is precisely my point: if God empties Himself of divine qualities (omniscience, omnipotence, immortality) in order to become man, then at that moment He is no longer fully God. A God without divine attributes is a contradiction in terms. Saying He “humbled Himself” just describes the act, it doesn’t erase the logical impossibility of being simultaneously omnipotent and limited.

John 8:58 (“Before Abraham was, I am”) is often cited to show His divinity. But if Jesus truly existed before Abraham as God, then the idea of Him later becoming subject to hunger, ignorance, and death still reintroduces the contradiction. An eternal being doesn’t “become” mortal, unless He stops being eternal in that moment.

As for Isaiah 55:8-9, I agree that God’s ways are higher than ours. But notice what’s happening here: appealing to “mystery” or “God’s higher ways” isn’t a resolution, it’s just a way of saying the contradiction must be accepted blindly. But logic is part of God’s nature too. A logical contradiction (being omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time) isn’t just “mystery”, it’s nonsense, like saying a square is a circle.

So I respect the faith appeal, but unless one admits that Jesus gave up being God during His life on earth, the doctrine still leaves us with an irreconcilable contradiction: limited man and unlimited God in one person at the same time.

[Anonymous]

He was both.

[behnam1999]

When Jesus was hungry, tired, or did not know the Hour (Mark 13:32), was God hungry, tired, or ignorant?

[Opinion Owner]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God…

John 1:1-2
In His human nature, conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. Yet He did not relinquish any of His Divine attributes. He possessed them all continuously.

[behnam1999]

If Jesus “did not relinquish any of His Divine attributes,” then how can you explain Him being hungry, tired, or not knowing the Hour? Hunger, fatigue, and ignorance are limitations, not divine attributes.

If you say these limitations came from His “human nature,” then you are separating His humanity from His divinity, which means either:

1. His divinity didn’t truly experience death, hunger, or ignorance (so the sacrifice wasn’t God dying), or

2. His divinity did experience those (meaning God became limited (which is impossible).

In both cases, it contradicts the idea of the all-powerful, ever-living God who is perfect and free from all weaknesses.

[Opinion Owner]

Remember you are saying something is impossible for God to do.

[behnam1999]

Saying “God can do anything” doesn’t remove contradictions. God can do what is possible for His nature, but He cannot do the impossible, like being eternal and non-eternal at the same time, or all-knowing and ignorant at the same time.

Being hungry, tired, or ignorant contradicts God’s nature, so claiming Jesus was both fully human with limits and fully God with no limits isn’t just difficult to understand, it’s logically inconsistent.

[Opinion Owner]

God is both the Alpha and the omega

[behnam1999]

Exactly, being the Alpha and the Omega means God has no beginning or end, no change in His perfection. If Jesus experienced hunger, fatigue, ignorance, and death, those are all changes and limitations. That’s the opposite of being eternal and unchanging.

[Opinion Owner]

Exactly.

[behnam1999]

Then we agree, if God is eternal and unchanging, He cannot truly experience hunger, ignorance, or death. So, if Jesus did, that means He was not God.

[Opinion Owner]

To God nothing is impossible

[behnam1999]

“God can do anything” doesn’t include logical contradictions. God can do all that is possible for His nature, but He cannot cease to exist, be ignorant, or die because those things are impossible for an eternal, perfect being. Claiming Jesus was fully human with limitations and fully God with no limitations is exactly that kind of impossible contradiction.

[Opinion Owner]

Again the idea that you know what God can and cannot do is heresy

[behnam1999]

It’s not heresy to say God can’t do what contradicts His nature. Scripture itself says it. God can’t lie (Titus 1:2), can’t deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13), and can’t be tempted (James 1:13). That’s not limiting God’s power, it’s affirming His perfection. If Jesus experienced ignorance, hunger, or death, those are contradictions to God’s eternal and perfect nature, meaning He could not have been fully God.

[sean1234]

Is, not was

[Opinion Owner]

It is heretical to say what God cannot do.