Cultural Appropriation: What's Up Dawg!

[TopCA]

As you may have inquired this post is about cultural appropriation and why l think its the most important non-issue out there. Before any of you scream to the high heavens on how insensitive l might be & how "un-woke" l am just read me out for a second. I will get to the part where l explain my reasoning for finding this issue irrelevant & get to the root of the problem that is being disguised as cultural appropriation. Below l will list my top 3 reasons as to why "cultural appropriation" is not a serious issue that needs a massive resolution.

My top 3 reasons for dismissing cultural appropriation (will explain in further detail below):

1. Cultural Appropriation perpetuates division and has no concrete solution on how to "effectively" embrace other cultures (Impractical).

2. Cultural Appropriation has fundamental flaws in its argument regarding minority "survival" in a predominantly white society.

3. Cultural Appropriation targets the wrong people for the faults committed by others.

1. Cultural Appropriation perpetuates division and has no concrete solution on how to "effectively" embrace other cultures (impractical).

One of the main problems with cultural appropriation is the fact that it unintentionally perpetuates division among cultures. In America, our society is made of many cultures & trends that are not all exclusive to American culture. Something as trivial as a hairstyle or makeup can seriously offend a portion of another sub-culture in America. This means we would have to police certain trends or revamp certain parts of our culture to lessen the burden of oppression towards others. The problem with this is that America has too many sub-culture with different ideologies & perspectives. Policing this would literally be impossible unless we create another culture entirely and get everyone on board which in itself is impossible.

Many of the arguments made for cultural appropriation stems from historical events and what another culture has done to another. So basically we would have to try to see what cultures oppressed others this includes sub-cultures. So we would have to analyze every aspect of history to see which cultures have offended others and to make sure we don't contribute to oppression. Taking all these variables into consideration makes a solution for cultural appropriation a nightmare. So the easiest way to avoid perpetuating oppression is to just not partake in a different culture or embrace them out of fear of offending someone. This means that a Latino can embrace black culture without the same ramifications as a white person? This also opens up other questions like: Can other sub-cultures embrace each other if no historical oppression existed between them? If yes, does that mean the dominant culture can't ever effectively enjoy other cultures effectively?

2. Cultural Appropriation has fundamental flaws in its argument regarding minority "survival" in a predominantly white society.

The definition of cultural appropriation is "a concept dealing with the adoption of the elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture". Currently, whites are the dominant culture and all non-whites are the sub-cultures. The argument for cultural appropriation is that whites (in this case) use minority culture for fun while all other minorities use white culture as a means of survival. This is why many supporters of this cause view that minorities can't appropriate white culture because they live in it. This is why a white person eating a taco from Taco Bell could be considered appropriation but an Asian easting a cheeseburger is a form of survival. This reasoning is flawed because it is ignoring multiple variables.

A minority in America does not have to eat American food they can eat traditional food, they don't have to wear typical American clothing, they don't have to completely change & uproot their culture to live in America. America has laws and the way you choose to live your life is up to you. Now they may tell me that minorities don't have to technically abide by traditional American social norms but they will be "judged" and outcasted if they don't fit in with the majority. Well, the fact of the matter is that this is not a problem exclusive to America or even whites. If you go to Japan you will be free to exercise your own cultural norms but you will be "judged" if you don't this happens in Latin America as well. Each region is dominated by a dominant culture & ethnicity (white, latino, Asian, black etc.) each will have different social norms & will view other cultural norms as odd. But that doesn't mean they view it in a negative light it's just an unusual occurrence which will draw attention.

If we want to live in that region and be fruitful we will eventually have to take on the dominant cultures norms & common practices in order to live comfortably. This is a universal principle that does not mean you have to completely throw away your culture it just means they have certain norms that the majority abide by. Whites have to also abide by norms depending on which region they are in.

3. Cultural Appropriation targets the wrong people for the faults committed by others.

The kind of individuals that embrace or like to celebrate different cultures are not the same individuals who have wants to oppress minorities. A white (am using whites for this example) person that loves rap music & black culture is not the same person who wears a white hooded robe on Sundays. Nazis do not nor do they want to participate in other cultures that are not specific to them. Some supporters get upset that white people like to copy black culture and love the culture while disliking the people. The problem with this argument is that it lumps the dominant culture into one single category.

The same people that love different sub-cultures are not the same people that hate them. One side of the dominant culture hates sub-cultures the other side likes & embraces them so bunching them toghter makes no sense. Many other cultures actually enjoy when Americans (all) try to mimic their culture as they view as a compliment. This issue of appropriation has only been spearheaded by the west. If it were up to racist of the dominant culture no sub-cultures would be represented or embraced except their own.

Important notes:

- This not a take on cultural assimilation which is another topic

- I am also not a white guy, l am a minorty (just to clear this up)

Thank you for reading mytake on cultural appropriation. if you agree or disagree please feel free to comment below to make your point. Constructive opinions are always preferred! Sources for my take down below.

Sources:

Johnson, Maisha Z. “5 Things You Don't Realize When You Defend Cultural Appropriation.”Everyday Feminism, 26 Oct. 2017, everydayfeminism.com/2016/05/defending-cultural-appropriation/.

“What Is Cultural Appropriation and Why Does It Cause Offence?” The Week UK, The Week UK, www.theweek.co.uk/cultural-appropriation.

[dancing_in_nebulas]

Humans are social animals.

Culture is a social creation, made to organize socialization in a group of humans.

Since it is all social, its natural to be used as a form of communication, for bonding.

Humans can live thousands of miles apart, so culture gives a medium for common ground.

I like to use skateboarding as a life example.

Such a simple thing. Skateboarding.

What race / culture comes to mind with that word?

Whites.

What happens when a black girl uses a skateboard to get around?

Whites who may have had assumptions based off her race, suddenly find her approachable, because her actions make a bridge of familiarity.

What happens then?

Friendship.

Love.

Peace.

I've made a lot of friends hearing latinos singing Tupac on the bus, attending traditional Asian fan dance performances in which older Asian women approached and spoke with me about that part of themselves. Met lots of white friends at rock concerts.

Its just a social bridge some walk or burn.

Im not offended by a white woman in box braids, because we can connect.

Im not threatened by an Asian rapper, because we can connect.

I do not deem others inferior because theyve never exp the struggle or lived the history of my culture. Shit. I've never lived it.

I was never a slave.
I was never taken from my homeland. I never used a colored bathroom.
I could vote at 18.
I always sat at the front of the bus.

I dont know what it feels like to be sprayed with a fire hose, attacked by a police dog, or scared seeing men dressed in white robes march the streets.

I am American in the end.

Our sub-cultural pot, is our cultural norm here.

One with many bridges.

Some cross them.

Some build, re-build them.

Others burn them...

Then stare from the other side wondering why the world can't unite.

Lol has to do with the damn match in your hand lol.

[TopCA]

This is genius. Thank you for sharing your insight it was very informative & peaceful and represents what humans should be.

[dancing_in_nebulas]

Thanks for a good myTake 😊

[smt133]

Love this.

[dancing_in_nebulas]

@smt133

Love you xD

[cherryphi82]

"The same people that love different sub-cultures are not the same people that hate them."

You're riding right into that fallacy that somehow taking on elements of different sub-cultures means also embracing/supporting the people. It simply is not so. So many white kids go through a phase where they love rap and hip hop and later on become members of the establishment. It's almost like a rite of passage. There is nothing open-minded, novel or inclusive about adopting elements of another culture, especially if it costs you absolutely nothing.

[TopCA]

A person may like what they like. I have yet to see Nazis & white supremacist partake in enjoying other cultures as a write of passage. If someone wants to wear a certain hairstyle it’s not fair that someone thinks that’s offensive if the person has no malcontent. America is a melting pot and thinks will get mixed together including other cultures it’s just part of the process. Of course there is a difference between someone actually embracing cultures vs mocking them for fun. Thanks for your opinion.

[cherryphi82]

Where did I say a person can't like what they like? The problem is associating liking those things with being "embracing" of actual people of color by the majority. This is simply not the case. It is also interesting how you are trying to use this as some sort of proof that someone is not racist, i. e. not one of THOSE guys (Nazis, KKK, etc). Not being completely extreme doesn't necessarily make you any less problematic. There is plenty of anti-color sentiment hidden in people who are nothing but so-called left-leaning, liberal, etc. Interest in another culture doesn't not equal absence of racism. Not only that, most of the time, people are only interested in certain elements of other cultures, the ones that benefit them, and completely ignore or shun others. Picking and choosing what you like from other cultures is not just appropriation, but a form of cultural exploitation. You don't have to change, you just get to dress up and feel cool. That's not open-minded or change-oriented.

[TopCA]

There is nothing inherently wrong with taking elements from other cultures and modifying them. You may call this cultural exploitation but it’s a part of human social evolution. The more interconnected we become globally the more fusion will exist. America is a perfect example of this since the birth it’s been nothing more than a nation consuming different elements from different cultures & modifying them to fit it’s needs. America does this with its food, clothing, & hairstyles it’s nothing more than a melting pot. It’s all around you.

[cherryphi82]

The problem is not with cultural exchange. Many great things have come to fruition with collaboration. Learning about another culture is not a problem. What is a problem is taking an aspect of a culture that you don't know enough about and then make it a fashion accessory for your simple enjoyment when the people who invented it had to sweat blood in order to accomplish it and keep it as their own. If you wear a certain hairstyle from Black American culture, you don't get the same treatment or assumptions that an actual person of color would get for wearing their hair the same way, such as exclusion from jobs. In fact, you would be celebrated as open-minded. And that's the difference.

[TopCA]

I see your point. You mean to say that a if a white person likes dreads and put its on its celebrated but a black person is ridiculed for the same hairstyle. My question would be if its the same kind of people praising the hairstyle the same people shunning it. There is no way to prove this, even if that were to be the case how would one respectfully wear the hairstyle? It’s not the person wearing the hairstyles fault that some discriminatory group comes and judges the native originators of that hairstyle this would imply that the person should just avoid it. Do you have any suggestions as how properly show respect if you belong to a dominant culture? Also Taco Bell for example never consulted Mexicans about how traditional Mexican foods and if they representing it correctly. This corporation is using the concept of Mexican food but modifying it for their target audience do you deem this incorrect?

[cherryphi82]

A lot of good comments were made on this forum. Read them and listen to what they are saying. As for not being able to prove racism - if you don't believe it exists, then nothing anyone says can make you think otherwise. This is a free country. If you're mind is already made up, then there's no point in making an entire take about it, but just do you and reap the consequences.

[TopCA]

I didn’t say racism doesn’t exist l merely said that the people enjoying different cultures are not the exact type of people who demonize it. So nice way of trying to twist the narrative.

[cherryphi82]

No, but you're trying to make the argument that only this extreme group of people have/express racially biased attitudes. If that were so, racism would not be a problem. Racist biases are often subtle, and a lot more mainstream. People who absolutely love other cultures can have racist biases. And it's even more harmful to claim that this isn't so, and that sampling from other cultures is just harmless fun or appreciation.

[TopCA]

Yes every person regardless of skin color has racial biases even to small degree you are correct with this assumption. This isn’t exclusive to the dominant culture every sub-culture has bigoted views on the dominant culture as well as other sub-cultures. This would mean that everyone should stick to their own culture since they have some subtle or unconscious bias towards another culture. Which is divisive in nature, not everything is perfect but as time goes on interconnection continues these assumption will get smaller and smaller. Humans are one race and species yes we live among racist & bigots but that must not deter someone from exploring other cultures as it’s inevitable to happen with the way cultures are mixing.

[cherryphi82]

That's not the argument I'm making. You can do whatever you want. But every action has consequences. And that's what you can't get away from, no matter what you say.

[TopCA]

There are no consequences to what l am saying. You have yet to state you solution on how to properly embrace cultures without offending anyone. What l am saying is not racisit, discriminatory, or divisive. Your argument is divisive to the interconnection of cultures and races. As long as nobody is mocking or demonizing other cultures with intent they are not doing anything inherently wrong.

[cherryphi82]

Come again when you actually have some truth to what you're saying.

[RolandCuthbert]

The only solution is the one that has always existed. Why not get in touch with some people who are members of the culture in question?

If you are interested in American Indian culture, why not contact those who are trying to preserve the experience?

Its your choice. You can contact an actual cultural center that American Indians frequent or you can talk to Chief Illiniwek.

Your choice.

http://www.chickasawculturalcenter.com/

cdnph.upi.com/.../...nes-Chief-Illiniwek-dance.jpg

[RolandCuthbert]

I just noticed something. This dude is doing karate kicks!

[cherryphi82]

@RolandCuthbert Lol :)

[Anonymous]

for real. reading people's comments on here makes me sick. I guess people of all color should just stick to using things invented by other people of their same color. okay black people, u need to stop using electricity, the damn internet, and your cell phones. yeah even your "Obama phones". People's desire to be divisive makes me weep for the world. It's not gonna work when people say "we want what you have but it's wrong for you to have what we have" and that's exactly what this cultural appropriation bullshit is.

[Ki_Wavy]

okay 1: phones? alright. then disable caller ID, fiber optic cables, and call waiting (Shirley jackson). Stop using your telephone too because WOAH, a black man helped draft the patent! Oh yeah, and the electricity? Then stop using lightbulbs because i know they have carbon filament which was invented by Lewis Latimer. Turn off your A/C, too. did you say internet? I actually believe Otis Boykin developed the IBM computer and later Philip Emeagwali developed the fastest computer EVER.
Literally, black people are the backbone of all the things you've named. NEXTTTTT.

[TopCA]

What makes me upset is people’s lack of ability hear another argument with a differ perspective and automatically respond with rudeness. I understand they want to respect other cultures and the people within them but lack to understand that cultural appropriation is just a result of how interconnected societies are becoming. So no one can enjoy other cultures properly. As if the people who enjoy the other cultures are the same type of people demonizing others. All this does is add another layer of confusion. Rather than attacking discrimination they also see embracing cultures as oppressive.

[Ki_Wavy]

did you reply to the wrong thread? bc i'm confused by your reply to this one.

[TopCA]

@Ki_Wavy both of you are being ridiculous claiming everything for one culture. Failing to see interconnection we are humans not different species of aliens living amongst each other. Enjoying and developing cultures is a human thing and until people embrace this stop labeling everything we will never see unity.

[Ki_Wavy]

i DIDN'T. the only reason i said all of that is because what he wrote was the most egregious thing i've read in a while. i just typed that to show him that everything he said is ridiculous, we can't "claim worldwide inventions.
that was clearly lost.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ki_Wavy haha I wasn't being serious. But you can tell your queen Beyoncé to leave her culturally appropriated bleached blonde hair at home. Read my last statement. It doesn't work when you have a group of people saying we want all your stuff but if you take any of ours it's cultural appropriation. That's bs dude. It's nothing more than a meaningless trivial thing to give certain groups of people another "cause" to rally behind and claim mistreatment. 100% the whole idea of it is being pushed by political parties that are trying to divide us as a people, but whatever.

[Ki_Wavy]

1 i don't like beyonce so lmao nice stereotype.
2. kente cloth, dashikis, bindis, traditional wear is NOT in any way hand in hand with inventions. i have no idea how you see those two things as the same. Inventions aren't culture.
3. And the fact you called this a "trivial thing" is a prime example of the argument. you saying that those things are not that important enough to care deeply about shows that you don't see the sentiment and want to Westernize it because "oh who cares". And it has nothing to do with political parties.
stop.

[TopCA]

@Ki_Wavy
1. Thanks for accusing me of "stereotyping" considering l used that GiF because Beyonce got backlash for cultural appropriation form her song with Coldplay. So l am stereotyping what specifically what? Exactly.
2. These cultural clothing items & hairstyles have multiple meanings not one sole culture owns a specific meaning for an item of clothing or hairstyles. Not only one culture own braids not only one culture owns the meaning of any material item let alone individual hairstyles. The fact that l want to westernize everything makes no sense. The world as you see it will interconnect we share ideas, clothing, food, & ideologies. There will come a point in the distant future where everyone will be almost identical rather an be part of sub-cultures. This is the nature of global access and evolution as a society. You're basically limiting advancement because you feel you own something and no other HUMANS may partake because it's yours so we must not touch it or enhance IT.

[Ki_Wavy]

i'm not even going to read that whole thing because I was talking to Anonymous who told me to go tell my Queen Beyonce.

[JDavid25]

This simplifies cultural appropriation, and doesn't go into the deep complex issue of it.. It's more than members of the dominant group takin part in a sub culture.. It's them usin the culture for their amusement, without actual appreciation for it.. Also wit the "Survival" thing you are ignorin that a person may have to drop certain aspects of their culture in order to do things like work, and walk around safely..

[TopCA]

I agree with you that it is 100% more complex with many intricacies. I disagree with your view for “survial” any region has its dominant culture and social norms here in America aside from certain sub-regions you are not going to be attacked by the avaegae person for being tradional.

[JDavid25]

Some people have been attacked because they culture was demonized.. It's happened, and that is the very problem wit cultural appropriation.. Cultural appropriation is when a groups way of life is demonized, and criticized, but once the dominant groups popularizes it, they are praised for the same thing.. Of course it's slowly gettin better in America, but it's still nowehere near great.

[Afrochick]

THANK YOU

[TopCA]

Exactly, “some” people have been attached by who? The same people who partake in that culture? No, the same people who partake in the culture are not the same people who demonize it. Racist & bigots exist but to draw a correlation with people actively embraceling the culture is not rational.

[RolandCuthbert]

1. I don't think you really know what cultural appropriation is. Because if you can only talk about it in terms of "Black" culture then you are completely lost on the subject. Of course, there is anger about cultural appropriation between different groups. It is silly that someone needs to point this out.

www.bet.com/.../...rican-woman-for-accusing-b.html

I don't see many arguments about cultural appropriation stemming from a history of oppression. But again, that's because I have studied this from many different angles outside of the "Black" experience. And what I see is a concern that the culture is being distorted and changed to fit some political narrative or to fit people's biased perceptions.

2. Again, this is such a simplistic distorted view of the issue. The American Indian experience is authentic. It exists. And you should get off your tail and to study and understand it if you want to know about it. To sit here and pretend that Chief Illiniwek is an authentic American Indian doing an authentic American Indian dance is beyond hilarious.

Maybe he is just some non-Indian dude dancing around like an idiot?

Just sayin'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSoR8PLorTw

So maybe your example about an Asian American eating a cheeseburger and a "White" guy eating a taco is light years away from the actual issue of disrespect some native feels when people with bigger voices dress up or pretend they know something about a culture, they never studied up on or cared about.

3. Again cultural appropriation has nothing to do with racism or history. It has nothing to do with your issues with your identity or the guilt you may or may not have about historical oppression. It has to do with the reality of cultural experience in today's society. And it is on you. Do you want to pretend that every Indian-American person is like Apu on the Simpsons?

www.geek.com/.../...LEM-WITH-APU-THUMB-625x352.png

Or that every American Indian woman is some blazing sex pot?

i2.wp.com/.../Screenshot_20170810-170321.jpg

We borrow from each other culturally all the time. Humans have done this since the beginning of time. But we can do that without distorting cultural experiences and making them into ridiculous unreal caricatures.

[TopCA]

I understand your perspective. I disagree with it, and l will counter the arguments l disagree with.

Your first point: In way have l made cultural appropriation a black and white issue. The reason l referred to the "black experience" is that l can relate to it more because of my background. I put in the Beyonce Gif from her song with cold play because she was being accused of misrepresenting Indian culture. l was never looking at this from a one culture perspective if you thoroughly read my take this would have been made obvious. Your argument that " you have not seen arguments for cultural appropriation stemming from historical oppression" is simply not true. Many people base the misrepresentation of the minority culture through experiences from historical oppression (Not all of course).

[TopCA]

Your second point: Yes the native American experience is authentic. A schools mascot is not a representation of Native Americans experience is just a shallow scope of it. Many mascots are not actual representations of its origins this is not exclusive to minority culture. Majority culture mascots are also just shallow scopes. This whole "disrespect" concept is ridiculous seeing as how mascots misrepresent everything they stand for. The onus is not on the university to accurately portray a native it's on the viewer to seek actual knowledge of the subculture. Its satire, not a history course.

[TopCA]

Your third point: No it's not on me to do anything. The general public does not view Apu as an accurate depiction of Indians. Again, its satire its meant to poke fun a the culture it's portraying for the purpose of humor. This done with majority & minority culture to say its offensive but then laugh at the comical depiction of southern Americans (southern states) is hypocritical. Using cartoons & characters to accurately represent culture is ridiculous because its mean for comedy & satire so of course it will distort the reality of its host.

[RolandCuthbert]

I will repeat. If your analysis of cultural appropriation can only take into account the "Black" experience then your analysis is fundamentally flawed. Because you then start to pretend this is nothing but a "Black" issue. You are unable to get away from the history of slavery, racism, Jim Crow, etc. to think honestly about the issue. Your analysis makes believe that Sikhs are okay with people thinking they are Muslims. Or that Hindu believers are okay with people creating weird mythology about their religion.

All of that is bunk. Of course, people from vastly different experiences outside the "Black"/"White" dynamic have serious issues with those who distort the real cultural experiences they live everyday.

If you are truly concerned about having a discussion that covers cultural appropriation, you will acquire the knowledge and experience necessary to understand this issue completely.

cont'd.

[RolandCuthbert]

As for Beyonce appropriating culture. I have no idea of what culture she was or was not trying to appropriate. I know about the "Black" woman I posted about. She was sexualizing the American Indian woman experience. She has the right to do this, but I still feel she was wrong and insensitive. If she wanted to represent American Indian culture in a photoshoot, why not consult with some American Indian women?

And again, I have not seen cultural appropriation arguments stemming from historical oppression. You cannot tell me what I have or have not experienced.

You are simply avoiding the the subject matter and framing your own strawman for debate. The fact remains, distorting cultural experiences of anyone can be offensive.

That is as it should be.

The choice to do it or not, is up to you. But to whine about the reaction to aggressive ignorance doesn't seem to be a very stable argument.

[TopCA]

Again l will repeat, this conversation was never based solely on a black issue. I can't use endless examples of other cultures because the take would be absurdly long. If you are unable to comprehend that my take is not solely about blacks it's about cultural appropriation as a concept than l cannot do anything but let you believe your false narrative. Yes, no every culture is created equal but the idea that no culture can be distorted or modified for a particular reason is absurd. No culture is free from being modified because it hurts someone's feelings. If you seek approval or respect from others to validate your identity then life will never accommodating.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, there was a "Down with the Chief" protest that finally put that idiotic tradition to rest.

Nothing you say here is consistent. There are just a bunch of contradictory statements. First you try to claim it is just a mascot. Well, if it matters so little, why would anyone want debate such a pathetic tradition? American Indians were offended, so shelve it. Create another mascot, since like you say, it is no big deal.

But it is a big deal. You are arguing that ignorance should rule the day. You can't say it doesn't affect people's view. Even Hollywood embraces nonsensical stereotypes of American Indians.

You have to go looking to find movies, stories, etc. on authentic American Indian experiences.

So if you are going to present that experience in on television and in the media, why not try to do some research and get it right?

[RolandCuthbert]

It absolutely is on you. It is on your own your ignorance or your attempt to be knowledgeable. You keep trying to claim what the general public does or does not do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRkyPkKYwA

Of course many in the "general public" believe in these stereotypes. Is Hari lying? He created a documentary and interviews Indian Americans from all kinds of backgrounds. I am a "Black" man, I know the stereotypes that are in the public about me. I have to be aware of them or I could be staring down the barrel of a gun. We have these stereotypes post at GaG every single day.

static.independent.co.uk/.../screengrab-ed.jpg

And I am not here to say you don't have a right to believe in some ignorant backwards stuff. I am just saying I have the right to call it ignorant and backwards.

The Apu stereotype is ignorant and backwards.

Whine over that if you absolutely must.

[RolandCuthbert]

Then make the conversation absurdly long. What is wrong with you? It is obvious that you cannot speak objectively about the "Black" experience because of America's first sin. So let's look at cultural appropriation through the lens of a different culture. Pick American Indian. Or pick Chinese-Americans. Who cares? But pick one where you don't resort to this whole guilt complex over slavery etc.

A movie made so long ago. But so brilliant in the analysis of the evolution of the Chinese-American experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmXqVZpOObs

[TopCA]

Apu is a character in a satirical cartoon sketch made for the purpose of humor. The show is based on pure stereotypes about a vast majority of cultures. Hari's point is not about the ridiculous nature of Apu but the lack of representation of other Indians to offset Apu's character. I don't agree with his point that a cartoon as comical the Simpsons is supposed to accurately represent every sub-set culture in order to not offend them or misrepresent them (defeats the purpose of the show). Stereotypes do exist as a "black" man l am aware of this as well. You think that cultural appropriation is solely the mocking of a culture for political purposes or to perpetuate biases. What you fail to understand is context & nuance for the reason of using the culture. The lines would be too unclear as to what is considered ok & under what context is it appropriate.

[TopCA]

You used yourself a "black" man as an example (so l guess you just made this a black issue according to your logic) the stereotypes are tied to your race, not to your culture in this case. You can call me whatever you wish just like l can call you an old ignorant buffoon who can't stand opposing views & resorts to insults.

[RolandCuthbert]

You don't get it at all. I don't care whether you know stereotypes exist. Approve of them or not. That's not my issue. The issue is you are not going to shut me or Hari up. I know how I get treated by police officers, by co-workers, complete strangers, by folks on the net, etc. And when I am being negatively stereotyped.. So does Hari.

Hari is not going to shut up about his real experience growing up as an Indian-American. It does not matter what feelings he hurts in this process. Because he has an authentic truthful experience. If you wish to learn about it. Great.

If not, stick to your ignorance but stop whining when people confront you when you wield it aggressively.

As for why they use the Apu character you can invent any reason you wish. The truth is pretty obvious.

[RolandCuthbert]

What in the world are you talking about? Stereotypes are tied to my race? Don't you realize that racist stereotypes are about behaviors, beliefs, social norms, etc. within imaginary racial groupings?

Have you ever read the definition of culture?

a : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time

Every racist beliefs that behaviors/beliefs are determined by the mythology of race. So they believe in culture. They simply claim it is determined genetically.

[TopCA]

The only one whining here is you. Never have l tried to “shut you up” no one is denying stereotypes or bigotry. The only feelings being hurt here is yours. If you want to get angry with others for your experiences or for “perpetuating” stereotypes through the use of satirical comedy than go right ahead. keep living life with this victimhood mentality if you wish. controlling someone else’s “appropriation” will resolve nothing everyones an individual with a set of beliefs right or wrong. Those who wish to impose malcontent will not legislate social norms. Cultural appropriation is nothing more than an a result of interconnection within cultures we live in a melting pot with bountiful ideologies & cultures this inevitable.

[RolandCuthbert]

Then why did you create this thread? It obvious that people complaining about misrepresentation of their culture is bothering you. And I am here to tell you, no one should care about your issues. You need to go work that out on your own. Good luck!

People should feel perfectly fine with trying to understand real life cultural experiences, just like Hari's. They have a right to understand what the typical Indian-American experience is like. And when they are called "PC", they can pretty much tell their critics to go to hell. Ignorance is not a virtue. Believe it or not.

Again your choice. Be ignorant or be informed.

But don't blame anyone for confrontations arising from your aggressive ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igITq2SG6xE

[TopCA]

Am done arguing with your feelings. Nobody is saying that understanding others is wrong. But arguing with someone who has the emotional sensibilities of a tenenager is a loss of time. When you decide to stop whining and understand how to have reasonable & factual discussion without resorting to insults then maybe we can have a discussion.

[RolandCuthbert]

"Am done arguing with your feelings."

No, you are done arguing with yours. Your hurt feelings do not count in these situations. If you don't like it, too bad. People have the right to explain that stereotypes like Apu and Chief Illiniwek are simply lies.

Your comparisons are off base. Your examples don't even comport with reality. Its like you come from a different planet where every "Black" person has braids, every Indian person has an accent, and every American Indian dances around like an idiot.

People have a right to know how different cultures actually live and what they experience in America.

So whine, cry, create nutty threads like this one. I will be here to let everyone know, all of this is simply bunk.

Bye!

[ronaldo75]

Cultural appropriation is fucking irrelevant... end of fucking story. Period. If you stupid enough to think all Indians are Apu because of a cartoon you're an idiot. If you think all black men are flava flav, you're a moron. If you feel your identity is being robbed because of Eminem rapping, you're weak and you're a fucking child. Black women who piss and cry because a white girl twerks are insecure shiftless little girls with pathetic levels of self-value and self-image.

[RolandCuthbert]

@ronaldo75 Not sure who are you posting. But I don't have an issue with people adopting different authentic cultural traditions, etc. But if you think dancing around like an idiot is an American Indian tradition, you need your head examined.

www.tulalipnews.com/.../s070221-illiniwek2.jpg

[amarahorrorstory]

I skimmed, I'll be honest. Drawing the lines of what counts and what doesn't is difficult. Which is why some people claim certain cases are, when they aren't. Like that obnoxious girl with her traditional Chinese dress. That wasn't cultural appropriation.

Wearing a sacred Native American headdress to Burning Man so you can do molly in it? Yeah... because you're using an important piece of someone's culture that you aren't a part of as an accessory rather than treating it with the respect it's meant to have.

I don't count hairstyles, but if something is traditional in a particular culture, it literally does not hurt to present it as such (don't get some braids done and say "ghetto fab" cause I've literally seen that) , AND FOR FUCK'S SAKE, GENETICS DON'T COUNT, NO ONE OWNS BLUE EYES OR BLONDE HAIR , STRAIGHT HAIR, CURLY HAIR. They can exist in all ethnicities, rare or not.

But I do think it's wrong for people to take respected or sacred articles of clothing, or symbols and use them for statements, solely fashion, or anything it isn't meant for.

Appreciation is good. But I why are some people mocked for pieces of their culture like bindis, but when some chick from California wears it to Coachella she's like "omg such a free spirit".

Embrace other cultures, that great, do your research, do it respectfully, give homage when it's due.

I'm an individual so some people are cool with it, some aren't. It's a case per case issue.

[TopCA]

This was very informative. I see your prerspective and yes it’s true it’s up to the individual if he/she wishes to show respect for other cultures. Using religious or ceremonial cultural items as fashion statements would be considered rude. Unfortunately all you can do is use common sense and let people do what they wish. There is no effective way to govern or police this it’s just one of those things that we have to live with.

[amarahorrorstory]

Of course, but also it takes nothing to be respectful to someone culture and inform the ignorant in a case where they mean no harm

[TopCA]

Yes that’s fine and up to an individual. That’s a reasonable point if you wish to let someone know then you can. Then it will be up to them if they see fit to respect the wishes of another person from that culture. The only problem is different opinions differ within a culture. One Asian may hate the fact that you are using a traditional clothing item with meaning for fashion but another might view it as a compliment. So you just have to hope that person values your person feelings.

[amarahorrorstory]

yeah, thats true, i just think it's a valid perspective

[lumos]

I agree with you so much!! Some things within certain cultures simply deserve to be respected because of their background, like the native American headdress. With appreciation also comes knowledge, and you can't claim to be knowledgeable if you take a sacred object and tarnish it by wearing it/treating it the wrong way. It's disrespectful. That's why it's so important to do some research, like you said. I'm all for embracing different cultures and being fascinated by them, but to just take certain aspects of different cultures without knowing the meaning behind what it is you're actually taking, is very ignorant.

[amarahorrorstory]

@lumos i agree, and how anyone can't see why its an issue for some is beyond me.

[lumos]

Same here. Not to mention that the things that are appropriated are usually seen as ”odd” or ”ugly” when worn or used by people of that culture, whereas when someone else wears/uses it (like a model) it’s suddenly edgy, fashionable and cool.

[amarahorrorstory]

@lumos That's the part that annoys me most. But those same people flip out if you wore a band tee that you don't listen to.

[lumos]

Exactly!! Ugh

[Ki_Wavy]

There's a lot wrong and i was going to type out what, but xXiTacoXx beat me to it. Also, I bet if you go to Coachella and ask a white woman wearing a bindi what the history and significance of it is, she would not know what to say and may even say "it's just a dot".
The fact that there are terms like "boxer braids", "Kim Kardashian braids", and "twisted mini buns" are quite insulting to black women who know they are "Ghana braids", "Kim Kardashian braids" are an adaptation from the African Zulu Tribe, and Bantu knots.
Bo Derek, a white woman, has since been given props for her "inspired" corn row look on the cover of Desert photoshoot. People taking other people's culture is a problem because they adapt it as their own in order to make things chic on runways and instagram posts. It's pretty insulting to be honest.

[Ki_Wavy]

oh, and not to mention Kylie Jenner getting comments like groundbreaking when she went to a high fashion show in a white durag.

[TopCA]

I understand that a certain hairstyle is significant to one culture and adopting it as your own or wearing the hairstyle is seen as offensive. But my argument is that it’s not inherently wrong to take a part of an element of that culture and enjoy it. It’s been done with food & clothing and corporations have mass produced this kind of thing. Yes l grant you that it can be annoying to that origin culture to see other cultures being celebrated for their creation. Not everyone is going to know the origin of anything and everything they eat or wear. I only find it offensive if the invidual is doing so to mock the origin culture or if they have malcontent. But if a dominant culture likes a certain aspect of another culture and they wish to wear than item of clothing then that’s not inherently wrong.

[Ki_Wavy]

? "Not everyone is going to know the origin of anything and everything they eat or wear." How so? Where has anything been lost in translation or whatever the sense that badly that a person has no idea where it came from?
The malcontent is already there. They KNOW it's there. They know the hairstyles they put out originate from black people and they proceed to change the name. They know it is a Chinese traditional dress, but it's just "pretty" to them and they don't care. You're reaching for a "maybe they don't know" point, that is not present.

[BrittBratt2416]

The problem isn't that you like someone's culture, the problem is when people take it and make it a trend and say its "new and fashionable" when its been around for years but ignore by the masses. It seems something doesn't become cool until the media says its cool. For the longest time, before the kardasians, having a big butt and big lips was known as a physical feature that belonged to black women. People for the longest time did not want those features cause they were considered unattractive. Now all of sudden today, it's cool to have a big butt and big lips by why wasn't it cool when black women had these features naturally? That's what makes people upset, it says their features or culture wasn't okay before but when someone who isn't part of my culture uses it, then its suddenly okay and deemed attractive.

[TopCA]

I see what you are trying to say. But there are many problems with your argument. The first one being that you assume “big butts” or “thick lips” are exclusively a black trait. Women of all color have big butts & thick lips these features are not exclusive to black women. It’s not like biology said “l shall make all white & other colored women flatter than a pancake”. You also have a lot of hypotheticals assuming nobody liked big butts and lips before it came popular in the media. This totally contradicts biology, men for thousands of years have found big butts and curvy women attractive. There was never a point were all men gave up likening big butts. You also fall for the misconception that the dominant culture finds all women equally attractive. In this case the dominant culture are (whites) most whites men like white women especially with big butts. This not exclusive to white men, other men of other skin colors find women from their race more attract than other women.

[Pink2000]

Cultural appropriation is like getting an F on an assignment you’ve been working on for years then someone copied you and gets an A. For years black women have been criticized for their style. Next thing you know you have celebrities stealing the style which is apart of our culture and making it a trend.

[Shadow44]

The definition of cultural appropriation is enjoying/using entertainment, clothing, food or some element of another culture that isn't your own. Cultural appropriation isn't a bad thing. What you describe as more as racism or culture of a specific race not being taken seriously until a celebrity uses it. It should still be called out but is problem shouldn't be considered cultural appropriation because all it is doing is getting a small subset of people to shit on another subset or people for respectfully wearing clothing from a different culture, enjoying entertainment from another culture, or eating food from a different culture all while deeply appreciating that culture.

What needs to be addressed is not people appreciating other cultures, but elements of another culture being seen as negative until/unless white people parttake in that culture.

[Pink2000]

@Shadow44 it’s definitely a bad thing when white women can get away with shit we’ve done our whole life. And that’s fact..

[TopCA]

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that a white women wearing dreads/braids as a hairstyle is morally wrong?

[Pink2000]

Did I say morally? No I did not. But when a white woman can get away with wearing box braids or cornrows and when black women do it’s seen as ghetto and unprofessional then something is wrong

[TopCA]

You say “gets away with” as if she is doing something wrong which she isn’t. Your correct that it’s not correct if some people in society view black natural hair as unprofessional or wrong but that’s not on the fault of the person wearing the hairstyle. If the person is not doing something morally/ethically wrong than there is no argument for not being able to enjoy elements from other cultures.

[Pink2000]

Get away with as in she doesn’t receive any flack

[Shadow44]

@Pink2000 @TopCA the problem isn't a white woman being able to get away with shit we've done in our culture. The problem is we can't while they do.

It's not morally wrong that a white women wears dreads/braids. What's morally wrong is giving a black person who wears dreads/braids a lot of flack for wearing their hair in that style while praisi a white person for it. In this case cultural appropriation isn't the problem it's plain racism.

I personally don't mind if people partake in my culture respectfully. It's insulting when they mock it and that's when cultural appropriation is a problem. Though cultural appropriation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Blaming things on cultural appropriation covers up the real problems and issues.

[TopCA]

@Shadow44 every informative. This exactly the point l want to make l applaud you for making it clear and accurate.

[Pink2000]

I just said the same damn thing

[Shadow44]

Thank you.

I mean most of us have eaten pizza, or got food from a different culture, and that's cultural appropriation in and of itself. Some of us have learned a second language of a country we wanted to visit or move to and that's also cultural appropriation. If we marry someone from a different culture and partake in their traditions that's cultural appropriation. If I moved to a different country and partook in their culture that'd be cultural appropriation too.

I just find it stupid that we'll demonize a person who's not of Asian decent for wearing. Kimono or qipao to an Asian event. When this person was invited by an Asian friend and their Asian friend suggested it. Or the fact that we'll tear down a person for parting in their own culture just because they don't look like that specific race. If they're not mocking and being respectful It's not a problem even if they don't completely understand the history behind a specific foood or style. I'm black I don't understance (cont..)

[Shadow44]

The history and meaning of dread locks, corn rows, afros, and yet I have an afro, could wear corn rows and dread locks and it's somehow okay. Though if I was white it'd be cultural appropriation and some people would demonize me for it just because their culture had been demonized. We're more than the melanin in our skin. The sooner we stop seeing race, and saying only X race could partake in Y activities/food/clothing/whatever the better, because this is no different than back in the 50's saying black people can't do X, Y, or Z and shaming people for doing it,

[Dog19]

A lot of people hate dreadlocks and says it's ugly on black women and black woman shouldn't be wearing them. Now shite woman wear them and suddenly she's still beautiful and attractive. If a black woman wore dreads people wouldn't like it

[Pink2000]

@Dog19 exactly

[Shadow44]

@Dog19 what you're saying is a problem but it's not appropriation that's the problem. It's people being assholes. Cultural appropriation is defined as using an element from a culture that is not your own. A lot of people eat pizza and that's cultural appropriation by the definition. Yet it's perfectly fine. Same with a white woman wearing dreadlocks. The problem is people being an asshole and saying yeah it's ugly, trashy, or whatever negative comment looking on black women then turning around and saying/acting like it's the next greatest look for white women. A white women wearing dreadlocks isn't a problem. That sed white woman probably loves the look on black women too. She did nothing wrong and yes that is cultural appropriation. People being assholes towards the race that piece of culture originated from is the problem.

[Pink2000]

@Shadow44 https://instagram.com/p/BjqaaZ8FtJ3/

[Guanfei]

Cultural appropriation is just another bullshit created to spit on white people.
Always the same story. I don't see many black people or Asian people wearing traditional clothes. They all wear western clothes, eat western food, speak western languages and watch western shows.
If cultural appropriation was real, they would be the first guilty of it.
BUT WAIT! That's when the "oppression" and "domination" card appear!
They have the right to do, say, eat, watch and wear whatever they want because they're a minority, and an oppressed minority with that!

Isn't that convenient?

[AL2000]

I call it "cultural incorporation". Anyone can embrace and proudly Incorporate tradition cultural clothing, mores and customs for the right reasons, Has nothing to do with ethnicity. This black woman dawning this stunning kimono is a prime example of how a traditional Japanese culture can be incorporated by those one wouldn't be "of that culture". Japanese culture, regardless of one's "Japaneseness" can be embraced by anyone. I would like CocoChanel's input on this. One can't argue how incredibly classy this lady wears this kimono

[alice55]

People who wear "Black clothing / hairstyle" and all aren't racist. The one who are racist are the one who will never wear a "Black clothing / hairstyle" because it's from Black culture. I know a lots of people like that (mainly guys) and those are the true racist.
The one who want to wear a Qipao or Box braid aren't racist. At least in my country it work like that.

[TopCA]

This is exactly my point. A racist only wants their culture to be dominant and not to partake in others. You don’t see white supremacist wearing box braids and listening to raps.

[RolandCuthbert]

That explanation of racism is totally wrong. You keep thinking all racism is defined in the KKK. It is defined in the concept of "White" supremacy. There are many variations on this belief. One is that "Whites" can assimilate any culture like the Borg and add that culture's best traits to their own.

Examples;

www.warnerbros.com/.../...nd_tarzan_keyart_whv.jpg

www.gstatic.com/.../p33171_p_v8_aj.jpg

media.indiatimes.in/.../..._1367318646_540x540.jpg

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert I don't understand what you're trying to say to honest. Those movie have White male lead because they're made in a White country, there's more White people than other so it's normal.
In my country for exemple, there's plenty of movie where White people take another race roles and it never been a problem or seen as racist. We're a White country, where most actor are White and so it's not weird that there's White people taking another race role.

Too in Hollywood there's mostly White actor / actress and hollywood like to always use the same actor to make sure the movie will work.

too you can't compare movie and real life people. You'll never, never see a racist man wearing Balck, Asian or Muslim clothes.

[RolandCuthbert]

What in the world?

Its like you didn't read a single word I posted. You can make a movie with all "White" characters about "White" in a "White" town on a "White" earth.

The point is that Tarzan takes place in Africa. And this "White" man represents not only "White" culture, but he proves superior to Africans in their own African cultural context. Like Tom Cruise. He learns to become a Samurai in six months.

Haha!

It takes a normal Japanese person, years to learn how to become a Samurai. Also, the wife of the man he kills, falls madly in love with him.

Or Argo, Ben Affleck's character in real life is half-Mexican. Ben Affleck ain't half-Mexican. The film had the opportunity to show one of the strengths of American society when dealing with international issues. Our diversity.

As for racism. Again analyze your own thinking. Could your mind even conceive of a "Black" person convinced that "White" people were inferior intellectually and physically?

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert The problem is that those movie are made in a country with majority of White people so it make sense if there's a White actor.
How many Japanese who are samurai and are actor who speak fully English do you know? Not many I guess... For the role you had to find a Japanese man who speak fully English, is good at being a samurai and who would be popular (if the actor isn't popular very few people are going to watch the movie). That's not racism, everything is about money. If they think casting a White popular actor is going to make the movie more popular even if the real guy is Japanese they're going to cast a White guy for the role.

As for the half Mexican it's the same problem you have to find a popular half Mexican actor who would want o play the role and who would be able to play the role greatly. Ben Affleck is a great actor and he's popular so that kind of assure the movie to be quite popular and bring lots of money.

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert (which is the most important things for movie maker). For them money is everything.

That happen, there's Black people who are like that and I don't even care for it because I know that's false. They can think what they want since that's false, how can it affect me?

Chosing the right actor for the right role is complicate.
It's like in the movie "memoir of a geisha" they casted a Chinese actress which make no sense, she's a geisha, she's Japanese. Why not cast a Japanese girl? That's as dumb as putting Affleck as a Half - Mexican.
Anyway what's the big deal? If they play their part great, why caring for it? If they did this choice over another it's for a reason and it's most likely not for racism or anything.

"The point is that Tarzan takes place in Africa. And this "White" man represents not only "White" culture, but he proves superior to Africans in their own African cultural context."
That your personal opinion, i don't take it like that at all.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, you are not reading. You are just writing posts.

Tarzan is set in Africa. I guess you don't know the story of Tarzan. But I have already explained the story. And wrong, uhm. . . most of the people in most of the stories of Tarzan are "Black".

But your explanation of the Last Samurai is even more bizarre. Are you saying that Tom Cruise is a samurai?

What the?

Tom Cruise is an actor. There thousands of Asian actors who can play a samurai. It takes acting ability. Tom Cruise did not actually become a samurai.

This conversation has taken a truly bizarre turn if you don't understand the difference between Hollywood and real life.

And again. . . any Latino actor can play a half-Mexican. This is just weird. Do you know that Jennifer Lopez is Puerto-Rican, yet she played Selena in a movie? Selena was born in Mexico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVMSuZXEz4s

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't get the whole Memoirs of a Geisha thing. You see, I think one of our problems in America is that we see everything through a racial lens. I think if you sit down and analyze the situation a bit more, it could have been specific to Japanese society. Perhaps Japanese did not want non-Japanese actors to play those roles, especially actors from China.

And I don't think you understand what racism is.

Do you actually think racism is about intentional or hateful acts?

If you think one race is superior to others that is racism. And if you create media that reinforces that mythology, that media is racist.

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert You're the one that don't understand anything at all and the one said that Tom Cruise was "training' as a samurai... You don't make any sense at all and can't even read properly. Why can't a White guys play a Samurai?
In my country there's many movie with "Whitewashing" and nobody care, it's all normal for them and even POC don't care about it. I don't get what's the big deal with a White actor playing a samurai...
Taking a full Latino for playing a half - Mexican is bad, you should take an Half - Mexican if not it don't make any sense and you can aswell let a White person play the role.
And you think I'm the one not understanding? She's Chinese not Japanese she can't be a geisha, if you're bothered by a White person playing an half-Mexican how can you not be bothered by that? It's not just about race it's about nationality. Personally I've saw an American movie where a character was supposed to be Italian and they were taking a American for it, that's dumb -_-

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert
Jennifer Lopez playing a Mexican when she aren’t one is dumb, if she’s Mexican then she should be played by a Mexican not a Puerto-Rican…

It’s like you do a movie about Italian mafia and put only Spanish actor in it, it make no sense at all.

You think race is important but I think nationality is more important, It’s like when I watch a movie about WW2 and the German are played by a French, that’s stupid and it don’t make any sense.

Iy you get angry at White washing, how can you be ok with people from other nationalities to play another nationalities? I don’t understand…

American racism and European / French is very very different. There’s a French movie with a Blackface and it’s not considered racist (that’s a recent movie too).

And there’s many French movie were White people play the role of Arabian / Middle Eastern people. No French ever said anything to it.

Too in France there’s a Carnaval where many people do the Blackface and that’s normal for them.

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRfp11cVoAEmPDP.jpg

la1ere.francetvinfo.fr/.../dunkerque-679223.jpg

That's only a tradition to them and it had been for many years.

[RolandCuthbert]

You can say its dumb. But Mexicans were fine with the portrayal. I don't even know what to say to you anymore. First you defend "White" people portraying non-"Whites", then you are mad that Jennifer Lopez portrayed a Mexican singer.

So why are we even talking?

[RolandCuthbert]

You are totally confused. If "White" washing is okay, then "Black" washing and Latino washing is okay also. We should be able to have a "Black" guy play George Washington in the next movie about the Revolutionary war. A Latino should be able to play John F. Kennedy. . . is that cool?

A Japanese guy should be able to play General MacArthur.

What the hey?

I think you have just checked out of this conversation.

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh. . . I am not French.

I was born and raised in America.

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert It's you who made no sense.
America have more White people than any other so the "Whitewashing" isn't' racist or evil. It's not the best cause it's not the most accurate historically but it's ok.
Japanese put only Japanese in their movie even if the character are supposed to be White and it's understandable and not racist since in Japan most people are Japanese.
A White country who put White people for another role is understandable, it might not be the best but that aren't racist.

You're an hypocrite, you say Whitewashing is racist but I never heard you talking about Blackwashing, Asianwashing, etc... Why? That's better maybe?

This isn't ok because America isn't a Black or Latino country, if Mexican did a movie about Georges Washington, it would be ok for Georges Washington to be played by a Latino. That's not the best, not the most accurate but that's ok since it would be made in a Mexico.
I find Whitewash in white country ok and Backwash in Black country ok.

[RolandCuthbert]

So you just crossed yourself up. If a Mexican person plays a Puerto Rican that upsets you. But no one should get upset if a "White" person plays a Puerto Rican.

That's total nonsense.

Again, figure out how to think in common sense terms.

If "White" washing is okay, then all other types are okay also. Try to be consistent. It isn't so hard. If you have a requirement for one pretend "race", then have the same requirment for all the other pretend races.

That's all I am saying.

So root for the next film about John F. Kennedy to have a Japanese actor.

I certainly will.

Like in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", they made Captain Nemo a Sikh.

That was great!!!

Oh wait. . . actually in the original novel, he was Indian anyway so that does not count. We just had "White" guys playing him up until recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert Are you deaf? Are blind maybe...
If a Japanese play Kennedy and it's a Japanese movie I have no problem since it would be made by Japanese. (Too I already responded to this question but you're just sending message without reading or maybe understand? What I was writing.)

It's you who make nonsense.
A Mexican isn't the same as a Colombian or a Brazilian putting a random Latino to play a Half-Mexican is stupid and not any better than putting a White guys playing it. And I'm not upset, where did you see I was yelling? It's not my fault you didn't learn to read...

It's like Making a Burmese girls playing a Chinese Princess, it don't make sense. For a Chinese Princess then only Chinese are ok. Putting a Britsh, Nigerian, Korean or Burmese none of these are better. It's not because the Burmese and Korean are Asian that it make it better for them to get the role of the Chinese Princess...

[RolandCuthbert]

Nope again, that is nonsensical. You keep posting the same drivel. A "White" person can play these roles, but a Colombian should not be able to play a Brazilian. It doesn't even make sense in an insane asylum.

And it really doesn't matter what you think. Hollywood is only increasing this type of diversity. Denzel Washington is playing Robert Mccall, who was originally played by a "White" actor.

Originally Captain Marvel was a man, but in the upcoming movie, Brie Larson will take the role.

A new animated film on Spiderman will feature the new Spiderman from the comics who is Latino.

What am I saying, the current Spiderman with Tom Holland features a Mary Jane who is mixed race, Zendaya.

So the conversation is moot. Thank the heavens we have people who understand the importance of telling diverse stories in a diverse society using diversity of culture.

But they really need to focus on more Latino characters.

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert They can diverse hollywood as much as they want I don't really care. In my country we don't do all those diverse stuff and this what matter more.

This is perfectly logical to me. It's not because you're not able to understand something you must talk about an Asylum... You're making look like a fools.
In France we had done a movie about an Italian woman and the role was given to an Italian woman. If this was given to a French women that would be stupid and making nonsense.
You're completely obsessed by race and can't even see that all countries have a different culture. That's truly sad.

She isn't Mary Jane though, I searched about it on internet and they all say she isn't...
Too if she's that stupid, she doesn't even dye her hair red, like it's hard to do so.
It's like having a brunette Gwen Stacy, stupid.
The only things I heard about Hollywood is how racist and sexist it's so...

They can do what they want but I would surely not watch it anyway.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah, you don't really care. You have only wasted your time for days arguing about it. Just live in your corner of the world where everything is "White". And live in stereotypical fantasies about the people who are not.

Do you. Be all that you can be.

And everyone who does not share that insane crazed view will do something different.

Again, I am not French. Though I have to admit, if I thought for a second that the majority of French people even thought like you, I would never set foot in your country again. The weird thing is that in Paris, one of my first international trips, I found some of the most diverse open and accepting people in my travels. Not that I was surprised. I was on assignment and meet two gentlemen one from Belize and another from Senegal who were there to manage an integration project.

I had so much fun on that project. It was among one of the great experiences in my life.

[RolandCuthbert]

To address the other parts of your post. . . why do I care about some Italian movie made in France? I am an American. I thought I mentioned that before. French folks should do what French people decide. I am not running for President your nation and I am pretty sure I never will.

As for Zendaya. . . give me a break.

Her initials are MJ. Of course, she will be Tom Holland's love interest. As in the comics MJ was Spiderman's love interest. Kevin Feige just changed her name to Michelle.

There is a reason for that, if you read the material.

Gee whiz.

And yes, Hollywood does have issues with racism and sexism. But they are trying to get better. I hope they make it.

The funny thing is that you seem to think it should stay racist and sexist.

Weird stuff.

www.gstatic.com/.../25903_v9_ba.jpg

[alice55]

@RolandCuthbert Paris and France aren't the same at all. Too about the Whitewashing this terms doesn't even exist here. Many movie take White people for playing Black or Muslim character nobody care. But we do care about the nationality of the actor in a biography movie, a lot of time they trie to take the good nationality for it.
You're anti White and racist. You don't care about Blackwashing but you do care about Whitewashing. I watch dramas where there's only Asian people, I watch many show like Flash where there's Blackwashing, I watch Bollywood movie and movie with only Black people in it.
I'm living in a White fantasy, between us, you're the most racist person and hypocrite I ever meet.

So she isn't.

Never said it should be sexist and I don't find it racist.

Too isn't it offensive for POC to Blackwash White character? Why don't they invent a new cool character for them? Make no sense.
You're completely self centered only caring about American stuff...

[RolandCuthbert]

And what does it matter? How many times do I have to say this?

Please read this time.

I AM NOT FRENCH AND i HAVE NO DESIRE TO BECOME FRENCH.

Whatever French people decide is up to them. I watched French television. Half the stuff on your shows could not be shown in America. If the supposed conservatives here saw a woman's boob, they would lose their entire minds.

If you claim that people don't care that a Muslim is played by a "White" guy, (which is weird because Islam is a religion not a skin color), then great. I don't flipping care. That is up to French folks to decide and figure out. I just know that in America, we are trying to tell diverse stories.

I don't understand why you posted me. If you knew anything about me, you would know I do not project my cultural values universally. Different strokes for different folks. America has a race problem. I don't really care what problems French people have or not. If France is a white racial utopia, then good for you!

[RolandCuthbert]

So get this, I am the racist one, because I think diversity should matter in films. And the thing is when we first started talking I thought you were American. If you are French and you live in France, why should care about your media? Please. . . explain to me this insanity.

Why should I care if you kick out every single "Black" person from your nation? There is nothing I can do about it. I can't vote in your elections. I can't convince you on the basis of culture. All I can do is make sure I don't go there.

What you want your nation to be is on you. I hope you choose wisely. But if you do not, I am not going to lose any sleep over a person who could care less about me, my culture or my history.

It is beyond narcissistic to even claim that I should.

As for Hollywood being racist, I don't care what you think. You are not American, much less African-American. You have no cultural context from which to judge.

[Philyouup]

It's Bullshit.. Rock'n'roll and most popular music today would not exist if the performers of the 50's didn't "APPROPRIATE" Blues music from the back performers of the south, ( their would be no Rock with out the Blues) Its a sign that sensitive white girls don't have enough to worry about. Get upset over a white kid in dreads, but don't give a fuck about the heroin and homeless epidemics or real racial issues like unarmed people getting blown away by scared under trained cops.. Or the state of mental health and our prisons.. No a white chick in a Chinese Dress is the real trigger... Pluleeeezzzzzz

[CubsterShura]

All I can say is, embracing a culture and wanting to learn about it more is one thing, and trying to imitate other culture things without proper knowledge and significance of it is another thing.

[TopCA]

We take elements from other cultures and modify them. It’s called America this is a melting pot. Since it’s inception it has taken things from other cultures whether they have proper knowledge on the subject. Taco Bell is not traditional Mexican food but a modified version that’s been Americanized. This is the case with many foods and clothing items as well as hair. Most things in America don’t properly represent the culture of origin and we all partake in them and that’s ok. It’s not inherently wrong to take elements from one culture to enjoy them or modify them. It’s just part of human evolution and the more interconnectied we become as a society the more it’s going to happen until we nobody distinguishable from each other.

[CubsterShura]

That is fine. Cultures change. But anything that is associated with traditional beliefs or faith should not be commercialized or used as a fashion statement because they are serious matter to others. Just make sure you are aware of what you are doing. That makes all the difference.

[TopCA]

Yes that makes sense.

[smt133]

The cultural appropriation argument falls down for me because it is basically saying that you have to behave in a certain way because you were born into that culture/ethnicity/nationality.

I might not be right on this, but I am pretty sure that the argument started with people pretending to be something they were not to make money, while the genuine artists were largely ignored. But that has always happened. Its not cultural, its just a type of plagiarism that has always happened. And people who do that should be named and shamed and called out for the frauds that they are.

[bubble_tea]

While I agree that child abuse e. g. is a more serious issue than cultural appropriation, I disagree that everyone is simply appreciating and I don't think that things done wrong because of ignorance is okay since the offenders didn't know any better, because it just gives incentive to not learn anything at all.

[lumos]

Exactly, it just becomes a vicious cycle of ignorance.

[ManaX]

I skimmed. I'm not really into the whole cultural appropriation thing, the only thing I'll say is people need to be aware of the origins of what they do. Don't take something, rename it a pump it out as supposedly something new. e. g. boderick braids are just corn rows. It doesn't annoy me, I just laugh at the ignorance.

[gomez38555]

Okay, so it's wrong for a white girl to wear dreds because that's supposed to be a "black culture" thing? Guess what? You're wrong.

Dreds are a relatively new thing on any person (unless your from the Caribbean where it originated, remember Bob Marley?)

But lets take the whole "appropriation" thing to it's logical conclusion.
Like wearing your Levi's? White thing. Started for miners in the old west (not many people of color in that group).

Straight hair? Not many African Americans have strait hair naturally. So the ladies straighten their hair to look more like the stars of the 50's and 60's (white actresses mind you)

The list could go on, but I think the whole thing is BS anyway.

[TopCA]

How am l wrong if literally called cultural appropriation BS. Am guessing you did it read the take.

[desidoll]

As someone who comes from an ethnicity with a colorful culture, Idc what other people wear or do. I only care when I am accused of trying to be White for dying my hair brown or wear colored lenses (I am short-sighted 🙄)
So I also can say anyone who pierced their nose and navel wanna be Indian? People do it for fashion purpose and I have never heard any Indians say anything.

[Afrochick]

"Black" hairstyles look fucking ridiculous on other races. Braids and cornrows are a thing that protects are kinky manes, but on straghter. "whiter" hair damages it.

Not to mention when WE wear our culture on our heads we are ridiculed and denied jobs/education because of it. But when OTHER races wear it they are cool/edgy and blah blah blah.

[RolandCuthbert]

I understand where you are coming from with that. But I think when people honestly which to pay homage or experience something in African-American culture, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

"Blacks" have appropriated much from other cultures. Sure, most of what we received from "White" culture was forced through slavery. But there are other cultures in America as well that we have emulated or at least tried to.

[Afrochick]

Don't go Coon on me now

[RolandCuthbert]

Baby, I could go "coon" if I tried.

And you don't want to step to me in that way. Because any embrace of ignorance is "cooning".

Don't be ignorant darling. Culture is a fact of life. And every culture is influenced by and influences the culture (s) it comes into contact with.

[Afrochick]

OK grandpa Tom

lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllluuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllllllllllllllzzzzzzzzzz

[RolandCuthbert]

Yawn. . . okay a Pimp named SlickBack.

Haha! Protect yourself with ignorance young one.

78.media.tumblr.com/.../...jxaELZ1tusohgo1_500.jpg

[Anonymous]

Yea, I feel you. I'm frustrated at it too. Specifically because I'm a white dude who happens to think that a rice picker's hat is the most genus hat design ever and I want to wear one but can't because it would probably offend the Asian neighbors I have up the street.

Its so good! Keeps you from getting burnt but you can still see your garden!

Ugh...

Maybe one day. Or maybe if I marry an Asian she'll give me enough credit to wear it in my backyard or something.

[TopCA]

You reason for wearing one is for practical use. You have no malcontent so you are free to wear one. Anyone who calls you a bigot for wearing gardening gear is ignorant.

[genericname85]

It's nothing more but another case of political correctness bullshit where people mostly not affected by a problem decide to get offended on behalf of others and then fight the thing that they decided to feel offended about with their sense of entitlement for not being offended. Just part of that millennial cancer just like the recent gender bullshit issues.

[COCOCHANEL]

it's ok for japanese to do it

[Dargil]

Cultural appropriation is the upside of the hallowed "diversity". E Pluribus Unum. It is nothing but good. Live it and love it. You young SJW snowflakes have been given EVERYTHING by the richest cultures in the world. Stop feigning victimhood and virtue signalling so I can stop puking.