What's your opinion on trans people?

[bruises]

Lol I'm bored and I saw a question on here about gender being a social construct. Got triggered. Anyway. As an actual girl born with a vagina, with 2 x chromosomes, who was already a girl even as a sperm cell I think it's rude when they call themselves females. I feel like it's an insult to real women that they'd say that they are what we are because they're not and never could be. There's 0 changing that. It's just disrespectful when they get their ID's and legal documents changed to having their sex as female because that's not what a female is. It's hilarious but also the ultimate diss when they still have dicks and do that. It's kind of grimey that a lot of them introduce themselves as females, and even when asked if they're trans lie that their not. I think it's a form of sexual violation when they trick straight guys who somehow couldn't tell they're a dude, into hooking up with them on any level because an actual straight guy wouldn't ever want that or be cool with it unless he was slightly bisexual or deviant. I've witnessed how grossed out a guy gets in that aftermath and feel like you should be allowed to press charges on it. Obviously, I feel the same at this point about girls who pretend to be guys. Not saying they should torture themselves living in a body they don't like but I don't like the whole lie about it shit, and I think that they should keep their actual biological pronouns and at most have their documents and ID's stamped as trans. I do think that girls who pretend to be guys look more realistic than the guys who pretend to be girls, since girls aren't masculine like that unless they're unfortunate as hell. Like gigi g̶o̶r̶g̶e̶o̶u̶s̶ I'd be able to call out from 3 blocks away. Masculine and unattractive as fuck. Voice. Cringey. I can say that as a better looking actual real 2X chromosome having girl born like this.

I got lame and wrote a whole story because it's just gross. Do you think I have a point or do you think I'm an ignorant bitch.

Updates

+1 y

GAG wouldn't let me post this under society & culture so... this being here instead wasn't my fault.

Updates

+1 y

Never mind it's under society & culture now... obviously.

[cipher42]

You clearly don't understand how gender works. Let me break it down. Also, while I'll get to this later on, I wanna say right here and now that the actual experts on this stuff disagree with you, so it's pretty clear from the get go that your view here is inaccurate.

First, gender is a social construct. It's comprised of roles/expectations society laws out for different genders. Things like girls have long hair and enjoy shopping, boys have short hair and enjoy sports. Clearly not that simple or clearcut, but basically along those lines. Transgender people feel that the gender they were assigned at birth is inconsistent with their actual gender, as they find themselves identifying more closely with the roles of their actual gender.

Secondly, sex is separate from gender, but still not a binary. Fun fact: we don't actually determine peoples sex by their chromosomes. That's a vastly oversimplified view of biology that neglects the various factors that make up sex and the existence of anomalies (which are absolutely not something we can dismiss just because they're outside of the norm- evolution functions largely through anomalies, basically our entire existence is due to anomalies.) Generally speaking, the way we assign people their sex is based on their external genitalia, which means a lot of the time we actually can get it wrong. The thing is, there's a lot of factors that comprise sex. Hormones, chromosomes, external genetalia, internal genetalia, and then sometimes you get stuff like chimeras. With any of those factors there might be an anomaly that means that someone doesn't really fit into our traditional categorization for one sex or another, which kind of means the way we define sex is already flawed.

Now then, brains. See, thing is, gender is mental. It's about identity. And the fact it that it has actually been shown that transgender people's brains are closer to that of the standard brain of the gender they identify as than that of the gender they were assigned at birth. And no, this very much does not mean that transgender people's identities are a mental illness. In fact, the vast majority of major psychological associations (aka the people who determine this stuff) agree that transgender identities are absolutely valid. So even the experts here disagree with your view, so really you don't have a leg to stand on.

[bruises]

if you wanna say that gender and sex are 2 different things then why the fuck do some of their ID's state their sex as female. That's contradictory to even what your saying and only supports my argument. They don't want to be trans, they want to really be the real thing, and the people actually born that gender shouldn't shit on themselves and let some tranny come along and say I'm what you are. In that case if some dude wants to be a girl his ID should either just say
sex: male
Or
sex: male Gender: trans
and they should be segregated as such. And reminded that that's actually what it really is. You're not what we are. Never will be. Never should be. Never could be. Respect that and maybe we'll have a little more respect for you.

[bruises]

And no that's a fucking social construct. That gender means your girly or masculine and is about personality type? Gender all of a sudden about personality and not biological differences. That is genuinely a construct.

[bruises]

is* all of a sudden about personality. That's not what gender is gender is a biological thing not a personality trait. What you're talking about is gender fucking identity.

[bruises]

There's experts that totally agree with everything I'm saying. Those fucking things don't even have an actual dick or vagina to piss out of. I do have a leg to stand on.

[bruises]

And lastly no.. We all know you're either a guy or a girl or you have a birth defect but are still one or the other. Just because you want to be something really bad and believe you are doesn't mean you are. Just because his brain is like identical to mine and he likes to be a girl the same way I do because I actually am one, doesn't mean he is too. Gender and Sex are based off of what you are biologically in terms of dna like whether you have 2: X, X chromosomes making you female or X, Y making you male. And I'm fully aware that there are genuine chromosome mutations, regarding that like when some girls get 3 x's but There's no X,$ X,:) X,:( X, E X,* there's like XXY when a guy can get an extra x chromosome too but is obviously still a fucking guy and that is a fucking defect. There's never been any scientific cases of an actual full on genetically female girl somehow being born a dude and then being trans as a result of that. Just guys that wanna be girls and think just like us

[cipher42]

The law does not determine the truth. We used to have all sorts of ridiculous and immoral laws, like black people not being full people.

Firstly, gender is explicitly not biological. Sex is mostly biological, but still a social construct. That's basically because everything's a social construct when it comes down to it. Whenever we assign categories or meaning to a thing beyond what it is at its core, it becomes a social construct. Species are a social construct because the exact point at which one animal becomes a different species from others (as we see happen in evolution in particular) is decided by society, not actually nature. That's the same way it works for sex.

Maybe there are experts who agree with you, but the vast majority don't. There will always be outliers. But when you have such an overwhelming majority think one way, you'd have to be either an idiot or a massive narcissist to think you know better.

[cipher42]

Also, I already explained why we can't simplify people into being fully genetically one sex or another. It just doesn't work that way, and thinking that way is a far too narrow view of things.

[bruises]

That makes being a tranny nothing but a social construct too.

[bruises]

and holy shit.. no that's called being a human being and studying shit then coming up with labels and classifications based on those actual studies because we need to have a name for things in general it's a basic aspect of communication and language. Something being a social construct means that it really just isn't a real thing at all until society said it is. Like pink being for girls. That's a social construct. Girls actually being girls is not. You genuinely think that we're all just a bunch of it's or he she's which is gross. I'm a real girl and they aren't. And they need to stay in their lane. If your overall genetic makeup equates to you being what is classified and labeled as either male or female according to studies, that is what you are. And if you decide you want to be the other and swap then you are simply still either the man you were born as or woman you were born as but predominantly just transgender. Not a real girl or real guy. brain chemistry is irrelevant.

[bruises]

So in the instance you were a baby boy who totally felt like a girl and had the complete brain chemistry of one, you *are* pretty weird, that is weird, but you should have the right to do what you want with yourself surgically because that would be torture for you not to and would result in suicide, but you shouldn't ever actually believe you are as good as the real thing because you're the worst form of a girl. You're a dude that became one. That's embarrassing. And real girls were never embarrassing men and never were baby boys, they were girls. You can tell the difference between guy sperm cells and girl sperm cells. When a guy sperm makes it to the egg and the womb it becomes a baby boy it never randomly becomes a girl, and a girl sperm never randomly becomes a guy. They go on to be either guys or girls, as predicted. Because that's how science works. It's the laws of nature. And that is factual. Anyone disputing that is fucking delusional or clinically retarded.

[bruises]

Like did you really just say "Species are a social construct because the exact point at which one animal becomes a different species from others (as we see happen in evolution in particular) is decided by society, not actually nature. That's the same way it works for sex."

That sentence is just so idiotic and contradictory. As human beings who use language we have words for things and classifications for things to fall under when studies show that they are the same as one particular group and not the other. You even said that it does happen and is an example of evolution which makes that a valid thing by nature-- but then you just said it wasn't because human beings decide that and not nature. As if nothing changed at all and humans just simply said that it did because we felt like it and nothing actually evolved or changed at all, but then said that it's real as proof of evolution. Like your own shit is cancelling it's self out.

[bruises]

and like you even said that that's how gender works. As if to then say that despite nature not changing and shit not actually evolving and humans just inventing that it did, that's how gender works. Which only proves me right because I was saying the whole time that none of that shit is accurate you're either a guy or a girl and nothing changes despite humans just simply deciding that it should which defies actual science. But that's like your proof on how that IS science, and transexuals are scientifically correct, er, something, somehow... like.. anyway... just don't respond please..

[cipher42]

Oookay, there's way too much misunderstanding here for me to address, or really just put the energy into addressing myself, so I'm just gonna go ahead and provide a couple links to read.
Social constructs are not what you think they are: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism

Gender isn't either:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

The American Psychological Association's (one of the biggest and most important groups for psychological issues, aka one of the many groups of experts who disagree with you) explanation of transgender identities:
https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Just go read both these things about classifications of sex/species/whatever and why the world reaaally doesn't work the way you think it does:
morgynleri.tumblr.com/.../why-animals-do-the-thing
trans-mom.tumblr.com/.../emo420-enderkevin13-i-want-someone-to-explain

[Girlanony]

Lol I feel you, she is so ignorant, even books, science, history, proffessors, genetics states it's possible, and to add, gender and sex being two different things that she can't even distinguish from one another, it's kind of exhausting to elaborate all this for a person who doesn't even want to listen :S

[bruises]

@Girlanony um... nobody gives a fuck that either of you genuinely think that everyone's an androgynous "it." Those of us that were actually born our sex are always gonna be better than embarrassing trannies that wish they were lucky enough to be born the sex they want but were born the oposite. Cool you consider yourselves he-she's. Lol congradulations? At the end of the day if you're a natural blonde your hair isn't the same as someone's who dyed their hair that color. You know. An actual name brand bag isn't one in the same as a cheap made in china replica. What's authentic is always higher quality. Otherwise it's nothing but imitation, bootleg, a fucking knock off. But when it's something as serious as being a man or a woman it's so much more embarrassing. Just a bootleg of the real thing. They need to stay in their lane as such and be segregated that way. So everybody's happy. Them, and real women and men. Be trans all day just take that shit somewhere else.

[Girlanony]

Sure keep repeating you're better until you believe it hahah, you are truly pathetic, and that's all I can say about it for real... what a shame tho...

[cipher42]

@bruises: clearly you didn't read or understand anything I said. Congratulations on proving yourself a moron who can't comprehend basic concepts, I hope you're very pleased with your continued state of ignorance. Since you've now thoroughly proven yourself not worth my time, I'm just gonna go now. Byeee

[randomhobo]

I'm trans so i've got good will towards trans people. Having been born intersex with xxy im a little different to the norm but either way there's no harm involved.

I'm unnoticeable and noone has called me out for months, and live stealthily. Noone knows the difference and why should they? I'm not trying to hurt people so i try to go by unnoticed. As for your thing about fooling people to sex- thats outright wrong. I know many (about 70) mtfs and everyone always discloses who they are before getting physical with someone- if anything we're more scared of being murdered or badly harmed by whomever we get physical with.

As for pronouns and changes, something as simple as respecting the wishes of a person can genuinely make someones day a lot better. It's not our fault we had psychological conditions causing us to not assign/identify with what we were born as- the least you can do is what we respectfully ask which will make us feel better emotionally.
Would you tell a suicidal person to kill themselves? Would you tell a schizophrenic to stop imaging it? Would you tell someone with anorexia that they are fat?

[bruises]

I wouldn't pretend the schizophrenics delusions are truth. I would, tell an anorexic they need to eat, because they're gonna look old and gross ironically for someone who wants to be so good looking they'd starve... I'd tell the suicidal person to get help and get better and I'd tell the transgender person that they're the sex they were born as. I would not tell the schizophrenic that i heard the cat tell him to murder that girl across the street too. I would not agree that the suicidal person should kill themselves nor would I would agree that the anorexic is fat because they in their head think they are the same way I wouldn't agree that that guy is really a girl because he wants to be or vice versa...

[randomhobo]

Seeing as the WHO agrees transition is the best treatment for gender dysphoria im going to listen to the agreed body of medical knowledge for this planet over some random person on the internet for how to treat trans people.

[bruises]

I get that. It's better for you but not really "cis" people. *You* seem nice though so I'm just gonna leave this.

[randomhobo]

I understand cis peoples behaviour. They have every right to their opinions and thoughts. All i ask for is the respect and courtesy of being called she/her and my female name. I may not agree with some of their views but so long as noones getting hurt i have no issues.

[somebodysaycheese]

How i feel? Well, that we need better mental health systems. And its sad that parents are encouraging children to identify trans. The amount of boys that will be " girls" in the next 20 years will be insane and hormones sterilize people which is even sadder. I dont see how going back in time to the Roman and byzatine times is progressive in anyway. finding the exact way to cure the illnesses ( which science already knows) is the best way and progressive. But it is interesting. Its like the Nazis but taking a different approach. Instead of forceably sterilizing them and killing the lgbt. You encourage them to transition which sterilizes them and hormones and blocker eventaully kill them anyway with a painful death. Youd think all the young 50-60 yr old transwomen who have died lately would make people wake up. But the mentally ill will continue to do what they do.
And people gender and sex are the same thing always has been. Just cause the lgbt chooses to make up shit all the time doesn't make it real. ANd gender has nothing to do with trying to convinvce people they are the opposite sex.

[BlueCoyote]

I don't really see why conservatives get triggered by this. Why do you even care what someone calls himself/herself? These people are obviously unhappy in their bodies, as evidenced by the fact that trans people who feel discriminated regularly commit suicide. Why shouldn't they be able to dress however they want and call themselves however they feel like? You might think that's weird or disgusting and that's your right. But as a liberal and - more importantly - as a secular humanist, I would counter that in a modern democratic state, laws are not made based on what individual people find subjectively "disgusting". I find leggings disgusting. I think they makes girls look like stuffed German sausages. That doesn't mean I call for them to be illegal. I also don't call girls who wear leggings disgusting or weird or bitches or you know any... any kind of insult. They like it, I don't. End of story. The same goes for homosexuality. You may find guy-on-guy action or girl-on-girl action gross and you can think that way but that's just your personal opinion.
Personally, I find it sad that people like you are so intolerant towards things that don't even target them. Like all those people who swear about homosexuality as though it was something that ruins their personal life when in reality, they don't know a single gay guy personally. Same thing here. Whether somebody calls himself "he" or "she" or "cat" or "yoda" has absolutely no effect on your life whatsoever. So I don't quite see what reason there is to get upset about it.

[MrShadyLP]

Transgenderism is a mental disorder. Surgery hasn’t been a solution with the suicide rate 20 times that of others. The experts say 70-80 percent of the children who experience gender confusion will lose that feeling as they mature. It deserves understanding and treatment – but is NOT normal as the you liberals promote. The Democrats tend to group people and portray them as victims (victimization) so they can blame the right for not being sympathetic. You can't compare transgenderism to "girls wearing leggings" or "gay sex." You were generally born a gender, you weren't genetically born having sex with the opposite sex, or wearing leggings. It's completely apples to oranges. Then you go into "it doesn't affect your life" but actually it does. Maybe I don't want my kids growing up with men using the women's bathroom and women using the men's bathroom. I don't see the reason to actually encourage someone to want to change their predetermined gender. Stop thinking with your emotions. :)

[BlueCoyote]

@MrShadyLP I don't think of them as victims and I don't think with my emotions. I simply want people to be tolerant, that's all I'm asking for. Go through the comments here and read them. Practically everyone thinks it's okay to make fun of these people. I don't think that's okay.
Also, you obviously don't understand the difference between sex and gender. We were born with a biological sex, that is true. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with gender. I know you don't get this but that really doesn't matter. You still don't have a right to discriminate these people. The connection to homosexuality is obvious: conservatives love to be intolerant towards other people although they're a) not affected and b) base their opinions on PERSONAL feelings. So it's YOU who's thinking with your emotions. Because you're the one who commit the logical fallacy "I find it weird HENCE IT MUST BE WEIRD". Well sorry to break your bubble but your personal opinion isn't the ultimate truth.

[BlueCoyote]

Also, this whole public bathroom thing is another completely ridiculous outcry of conservatives getting their panties twisted. Why should I give a rat's ass who poops next to me in the bathroom? It has absolutely no affect on my life whatsoever. I go to a public bathroom to do my business, not to stare at other people's genitals.

[bruises]

I'm not a conservative. I don't like trannies because I'm a real girl and that is an insult to legally document a full blown dude as a female even when he has a dick and balls. That's not what a female is. I know that living in a body you don't like must fucking suck which is why I said they could still do the weird i'm gonna look like a girl or guy shit I just find it wrong to call them selves a female when a female is a female and not a tranny which is what they are. Same with the girls that wanna be guys. My mom's gay and it never bothered me in the slightest bit. It would freak me the fuck out if she became straight. Homosexuality is what ever. But trannies being even a trend in 2016 is weird, them saying their a girl is weird, pronouns shouldn't be invented, you're either a guy or a girl or trans. In the instance you're trans you're not the gender you wanna be, you're either the one you were born as, or just trans.

[BlueCoyote]

@bruises: What if a person gets a sex change surgery (well actually, it's a whole process of numerous surgeries and hormonal therapies that lasts for years) and eventually does look like the other sex? Can he/she then get a change in his/her passport?

[bruises]

In the almost non existent instance (probably would be more common in 20 or so years) where they look exactly like the real deal then no because then when you see the real deal how do you differentiate a real actual girl from a guy who went above and beyond to replicate that, (or vice versa with a girl being a guy) unless the trans person goes by their actual pronoun and is just honest about it. I'm a real girl. I was that as a sperm cell, in the womb and when I came out of it. They're not what I am and it is offensive to an actual born that gender person to say they are exactly what we are because they're not and that's a diss. You're trans. Just go by that. You're really he and it shows so just go by that. And if it doesn't show, then seriously go by that so no one clumps you in as being an actual female. Because that's not what female is. It's insulting to say so.

[BlueCoyote]

I think you're placing waaaay too much importance on genetics. Especially since there are lots of things we don't even understand about these things yet. Sure, nature is one factor but there are many other factors too. You say that you're a "real" girl but I would ask what really makes a real girl. If I have boobs and a vagina and generally look like a girl, plus I act like a girl in every single social situation, I have feminine interests and hobbies etc. etc., so I'm a girl physically, mentally, emotionally and socially, you're saying I'm still a guy just because of my y-chromosome? That logic seems pretty flawed to me.
Also, you seem to be uninformed about the state of current medical progress in this field. Despite what people like you claim, it is in fact almost impossible to see the difference between a real penis and one that was modeled artificially. Especially since nowadays, these genitals are also fully functional, both for peeing and for sex.

[BlueCoyote]

And most importantly, I still don't get why any of these offends you. Are you THAT insecure in your own gender identity that you feel threatened by a couple of trannies? This is where I come back to homosexuality again. A lot of men find homosexuality extremely offensive (especially in America). I don't get it. I can have boys making out right in front of me and I don't give a rat's ass. It makes me feel like men who get offended about homosexuality are very insecure in their own sexuality. And likewise, you seem very insecure in your state of being a woman. You act as though being a woman was an academic degree that you had to work hard for and now some uneducated hillbillies start calling themselves PhD. In that case, I'd understand your frustration. But being a men or a woman is completely coincidental. And just because YOU find something offensive doesn't mean it should be the law. There are people who find interracial marriage offensive, too.

[MrShadyLP]

No you're the one who's thinking with their EMOTIONS. You still are. Thinking you're the opposite sex is nothing but a mental disorder. Psychopathy, sociopathy, depression, bipolar disorder, etc. are all mental disorders, are they encouraged? Transgenderism is a mental disorder. As I said it deserves understanding and treatment, aka tolerance. Just because most people don't encourage it, doesn't mean they aren't tolerant to it. Please start thinking with your brain and not your emotions. Just because you FEEL someone should be encouraged for wanting to be the opposite sex, doesn't mean it should be real. That's not how life works. If you're born with a vagina, you're a girl, if you're born with a pens, you're a boy. It's not that hard. There isn't a difference between gender and sex. Again, if you have a penis, you're a boy, and a vagina, you're a girl. They need a psychiatrist, they're not sane.

[BlueCoyote]

@MrShadyLP Dude, if you don't even know the difference between sex and gender, I'm not going to discuss this any further with you. Grow up a bit. Go to university and learn something.

[bruises]

You're either stupid or aren't reading what I'm actually saying. Don't know... Me being a normal real girl and not wanting a tranny to be clumped in with me as being a normal real girl too doesn't equate to me being self conscious.. ? Trannies are... They themselves don't like the fact that they weren't born the gender they want to be which is why they get their pronouns and ID's changed and go around introducing themselves as just that gender and often lie that they're not trans or feel like they got exposed if someone says it. Despite how embarrassing and genuinely creepy it is to be a tranny I can understand they want to do that and shouldn't be tortured with living in a body they do not like. That has to be hell. Let them be weird yes. But if they don't even like that they had to be trans & would rather pass themselves off as an actual person of that gender why in the fuck would an actual person of that gender be cool with a tranny clumping themselves in with what they are.

[bruises]

As a real girl and a normal person I can see how embarrassing it is to be a guy with an adams apple in your neck and a man jaw and man shoulders, man hips, a mans flat chest, a manly forehead ridge, (often times a manly chiseled nose too but sometimes actually not) and manly body hair and often a man's voice, and a man's penis, tuck that dick in between your man ass, paint the nails on your big hairy man feet and man hands wax laser or shave that male body hair including 5 o clock shadow, and then decorate yourself like a girl and talk in this weird fake girl voice, and then sign papers so the government declares you a real female, and expect to be treated like a real female and in the instance someone doesn't agree their ignorant, and I'm suppose to say that they are just as much woman as I am because they want to be. That's an insult when you're saying that's what a woman is.

[MrShadyLP]

Yet you're the one saying transgenderism should be encouraged. You're also the one comparing apples to oranges things. Also the one acting like transgenderism is okay. Also using your emotions instead of your brains (which I've concluded it's because you don't have any). Being 28 you should be pretty smart, not too stupid to not realize that transgenderism Is a mental disorder. You can't pick and choose which mental disorder to help and which not.

[MrShadyLP]

So should I start encouraging people with NPD, ASPD, depression, etc?

[bruises]

Then when they go on to get hormone therapy because they really are loaded with manly testosterone because their Dna is X, Y male and not XX female, because it makes them look like a dude phsyically because they are, and go to get plastic surgery to fix their voice or adams apple and literally shave or file it down and get fake tits on their manly flat chest, and get their man dick and testicles sliced and rearranged into a replicate of a vagina and get all this reconstructive shit to replicate the feminine traits a real female is just naturally born with, I’m suppose say they’re just as much of a real woman as I am, and we are the same and we are equal and his documents should even declare him as female as should the world. Like if being a female means you’re something like that when it actually means you never could be because a female means she's female and born that way.

[bruises]

Simply put yes they should be allowed to do what they want if they're feeling that tortured, but it should absolutely not be a thing everyone is cool with in the instance they're documents and pronouns are referring to them as a gender they're not. Trannies should never actually be accepted as or treated like the gender they want to be because they're not and that's disrespectful to the real actual people born as that gender or "sex". They're not as good they are not the same and they should not be treated like they are. They should be classified and treated as less because they genuinely just are which is why they do get ostracized for the most part. And so no one's life is in danger and everyone's happy, both the trannies and the real deal they mock, segregation would actually be a benefit.

[bruises]

And if you wanna say that gender and sex are 2 different things then why the fuck do some of their ID's state their sex as female. That's contradictory to even what your saying and only supports my argument. They don't want to be trans, they want to really be the real thing, and the people actually born that gender shouldn't shit on themselves and let some tranny come along and say I'm what you are. In that case if some dude wants to be a girl his ID should either just say
sex: male
Or
sex: male Gender: trans
and they should be segregated as such. And reminded that that's actually what it really is. You're not what we are. Never will be. Never should be. Never could be. Respect that and maybe we'll have a little more respect for you.

[BlueCoyote]

Man, you're really emotionally invested in this, huh? xD Well, it's sort of hard to respond to such an utterly aggressive, bitchy and pissy answer as yours in a polite fashion but I'm still going to try.
1. I'm not a transgender... where do you even get that from? Are you hallucinating?
2. Why do you get so pissy about other people's passports? Do you have some kind of dictator complex? Just caaalm down. It's none of your business what other people's passports say. You find it offensive I GET IT. I find your language offensive. Am I calling out to ban it? Nope. That's called democracy. You might want to look it up in a dictionary. Democracy means we all find some stuff "offensive" or "stupid" or "disgusting" but we tolerate because we live in a pluralist, democratic society. If you don't like that kind of system, you need to move to Russia or Saudi Arabia.
I don't care much for transgender. I simply think it's dumb how you two get so cranky about stuff that doesn't even affect you.

[bruises]

Lol are you, hallucinating I never said *you..* were transgender. I was speaking generally. the way I would to a tranny themselves. Your nonsensical answers are what gets a bitchy response not really the topic of trannies. It's plain and simple your a guy or your a girl, and you could be either and have a birth defect which would result in your biological chromosomes or anything being out of the norm. That doesn't mean that gender and sex are predominantly constructs at all. According to you being a tranny is more valid then gender and or sex are. Those are constructs and to you being a transexual isn't because some guy grew up wanting to be a girl so naturally has the brain chemistry pretty close to an actual one. Which means that is valid and gender or sex or what ever isn't.

[bruises]

You're picking shit apart and getting retardedly technical. I'm legitimately right that if their sex is male or female and their gender isn't that their gender should say trans and their sex should remain what ever they were born as. It's that simple. And let them get what ever surgery they want, It's just legally scientifically morally off that they get treated like they're not transgender and an actual real guy or girl because they aren't their trans and real guys and girls shouldn't include them as being what we are... it's not that complicated or bitchy. They need a separate category which is the one they were given. Trans. It's a matter of them staying in their lane.

[bruises]

I got rude the minute you got that nonsensical and even went on to imply that I'm insecure if I don't think a transsexual should be put on the same pedestal as any person that actually was always that gender.

[bruises]

There never has ever been a singular instance in human history where a shit ton of tests were done and it came back that this really was a full on girl who somehow ended up being born with a man's body and became trans as a result of that. Just instances where chromosomes and dna were mutated but they were still either a guy or a girl, and instances where a trans persons brain chemistry matched the kind of brain chemistry a real guy or girl had. But even when it's argued that all of that is just social construct which (idiotically) means there really isn't "male" or "female" somehow when it's a tranny it's like totally legit and makes them actually male or female like... what... That's a contradiction that means that the same way I just happen to like my gender and gender role but it's not even a real thing it's not either for a fucking dude that just happens to like my gender and gender role either..

[bruises]

It does have a negative affect on my life and "cis" gender people in general that a tranny doesn't want to identify as that and wants to be treated as and identified as exactly what we are which is real. The fact that there's even a subcategory for being normal by default now puts an emphasis on this. As if we're not normal, and we're just like them. They just coincidentally didn't like their gender and we just coincidentally did. No it's normal to identify with your gender. It's abnormal not to, whether you think it's negative or a positive thing to encourage is a fucking debate, but it is the definition of abnormal. Even if you support it. Trans people don't like being trans. They want to be that real guy or real girl but obviously can't be because they were already the sex they ended up being as a sperm cell and matured into that, once they were born. It's genuinely embarrassing. They would of wanted to be born the gender they like, not be trans and have to replicate it.

[bruises]

Despite that I personally feel grossed out the same way they probably honestly personally do, and despite me feeling like nobody should be encouraged to make a mockery out of women or men like that, I will say that is my opinion, and should not have the right to dictate someones right to be what they want, because they would kill themselves if they couldn't. But Since it's pretty embarrassing to be a trans person that got hormones and surgery to avoid looking like their actual gender and *that's* how they currently look like a real girl or guy, why would real girls or guys want them to be able to replicate us? So that we can't even tell the difference between who's real and who's not and now group ourselves in with something so embarrassing because they wanted to group themselves in with us so they wouldn't be embarrassed? And then say that they're just as good. Maybe even help them make children like we can? If they are what we are, then that makes us what they are.

[bruises]

When they didn't even want to be. That isn't cool to regular normal real girls or real guys. If we're gonna allow ourselves to be mocked like that then we should have some amount of segregation, and we should still call them by the pronouns they were assigned at birth as a result of their actual scientifically correct sex which transsexuals should understand and be fine with, out of respect for real girls and guys they want to be and also so shit does not get confusing. They didn't want the burden of being trans because it's embarrassing so now we're gonna take on the burden of them blending in with us and probably in the future becoming just like us and it doesn't matter how embarrassing it really is to basically be what they are if we're all gonna be just as good? If they're allowed to be disrespectful enough to go through with making real men and women look bad because they wanna be one so bad we should be allowed to remind them them they're not what we are, legally as well.

[BlueCoyote]

See, you keep looking at this from your subjective viewpoint and you're completely incapable of stepping in another person's shoes. You keep repeating "why would anyone want to be trans". Well, why would any guy want to have sex with another guy? Doesn't make sense to me. Let's forbid it. Why would anyone want to drink alcohol? I hate alcohol. Makes no sense. Let's forbid it. Why would any girl want to wear high heels? My god, I find high heels so annoying on girls! Let's forbid them too. Cuz all that matters is MY OPINION and everyone else can fuck off!
That's exactly how you argue here. You don't care about others. You are caught up in a circular argument that goes "I find it offensive hence it must be forbidden and it must be forbidden because I find it offensive".
Of course you can whatever opinion you want but it's not a very qualified one and certainly not accepting either.

By the way: who decides what a "real" girl is? Aaaah YOU. Because again, this is actually all about YOU.

[bruises]

You're showing obvious signs of being stupid or delusional. Like when atheists debate with religious people and the responses they get are just stupid as fuck but they'll swear their imaginary shit is factual and more scientific (lol oh my "god") You're inventing that I said we should forbid transgenderism. I do think it would be better but said that I can acknowledge that they would kill themselves and that it would be torture which IS putting myself in their shoes despite "my opinion." I said that if they're going to swap genders physically they should rightfully be treated like it and use their birth sex pronouns. NOT act like they're "cis" because they're not and it's embarrassing.

[bruises]

What determines what an actual real girl is, is DNA not my opinion, that's what you're doing Lmao... You actually think that there's no difference between a male sperm cell maturing into a boy and then becoming a fake girl so he doesn't become a full on man if he hasn't already vs. a girl sperm cell becoming a girl and living on to be a real woman. Your insane argument is that that's an opinion that the latter is an actual girl and not a fact. And that what ever gender you want to be in your head because in your opinion you prefer it more, is scientifically factually what you are... despite your actual factual dna being what it is.

[bruises]

I don't even want to entertain a debate with anybody that says "it's an opinion that you're genuinely a girl when you were born as one and that you can genuinely be a girl if you weren't born as one, because in your *opinion* you preferred it more, which actually somehow equates to that being just as factually female as a girl being born female which i keep being told somehow does not mean you're any realer a girl then a guy that became one... (which it does the sentence just speaks for it's self the same way a natural blonde is a real blonde and isn't the same as someone who dyed their hair) and how that's just an opinion that you'd think you are". This is why I don't think this tranny shit should be encouraged. It's delusional. And then actual "cis" aka normal people who shouldn't even have a label as if you need one when you are what you actually are, are literally straight up being told that our gender is in fact the socially constructed made up one, and that theirs isn't..

[bruises]

lol look at you... even resorting to pretending i "asked" (?) why anyone would want to be trans because I can't understand it? (lie.. lol where?) and want it illegal because I'm offended (?) when i literally said the opposite that despite it being gross and them thinking it is too so much that they need to change, I *DO* get they don't like their gender and would kill them selves if they had to stay like that, and even said I would be dictating to ban it. My argument is that they aren't the same as "cis" and should not be treated like they are, because they aren't, they wish they were a real girl, but had to be a guy that became one, and since that's what they are that's how they need to be addressed and segregated. Let them do their thing they would off themselves if they couldn't, you're inventing what my argument is, and saying I want it to be banned because I'm offended, and since I'm offended it should be banned. You're nonsensically lying for the sake of your argument.

[conkrete721]

Unrelated question, why are you assuming that she is a conservative? Are you stating conservatives in general or are you calling her out directly? There are certainly liberals that would agree with her and others who don't. I don't get this whole, attaching a political party to a person just because their views differ from your own.

[bruises]

@conkrete721 There's way too many paragraphs of bullshit with us going back and forth but I literally told him that I'm not a conservative. He thought that I was because I don't like trannies and I don't think they're the same as people who aren't. He also assumed I was homophobic but I'm genuinely not at all. I've never given a shit and never found it weird at all that some people are attracted to the same sex. In one of the million paragraphs up there I addressed this because my mom's a lesbian and if she ever turned straight I'd be freaked out as hell because she's been gay since I was like 1. Never cared. Nothing weird there. Kind of preferred it if anything.

[conkrete721]

Yeah there is no way I was reading that massive argument haha

That's good to know though. I really think it's ridiculous that people try to tie you to a certain political party because of your opinion. People get so wrapped up in that BS that it's suffocating.

[Thisperson98]

I agree completely.
overpassesforamerica.com/.../...lack-dna-test1.jpg

[Lightspeed-Lemon]

You are basically right. But why do you only have a problem with men turning into women? There are famous examples of women going the other way too.

teen.mthai.com/app/uploads/2014/04/Chaz-Bono.jpg

If life were perfect, it would be like a videogame where you get to choose your gender, age, race, and appearance at the start. Unfortunately, it is not, and we have to accept that.

[bruises]

Nah I know, I said I think negatively of both but being an actual girl I get more irked by the guys that say they're a girl because that's what I am so I just focused on that because I genuinely do feel the need to shut down the whole hi im a regular real girl just like you act. The girls that pretend to be guys tend to look better because guys can have not as masculine features and still look fine but the guys that pretend to be girls always look masculine. Maybe in a crowd of 300 2 might look pretty spot on. Carmen carrera and Gigi gorgeous always get referenced as being "fish" or totally feminine and it's like holy fuck. Really? That jaw and nose and forehead and probably lots of other shit don't scream manly? That's insulting to say they look like women. Maybe if she's unfortunately chiseled for a girl... but that's not what a female is or looks like thanks for spitting on us like that though.

[Lightspeed-Lemon]

Well, it's only the unconvincing trans people who you would notice. If you saw ones like this, you'd be none the wiser:

totallycoolpix.com/.../...7__tcp_gallery_image.jpg
www.nationmultimedia.com/.../30218568-01.jpg
static4.businessinsider.com/.../...uty-pageant.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/.../Jenna_Talackova.jpg

Now here is a genuine real woman, Rumer Willis:
www.picsofcelebrities.com/.../...-rumer-willis.jpg

Lol. But if all this irks you, it's gonna get worse. Was reading the other day about trans guys demanding admittance to all-female sororities. I don't think that should happen, but then again, plenty of all-male clubs, organizations and sports teams were forced to admit women and nobody questions that.

[bruises]

Yeah I said that they all look like unfortunate masculine women. The only one that didn't was the second one waving.

[LunaLawliet]

Tbh, they don't really bother me. I don't feel insulted in the slightest, but I respect your opinion.
I do agree about the whole not telling the other person that they're trans, but I can understand why they'll feel inclined not to.
Though I'm willing to accept a transgender person as mentally ill, I feel that if a person wants to identify as another gender, then let them. It's their body in the end. About the whole pronoun thing... if a biological female wants to identify as a male, and vice versa, I think it's best to use the pronouns they prefer.

[cheapshotbob]

i have trans friends and while the dont won't to lie they say if they dont they get beat up threatening phone calls etc. all because guys dont like guys pretending to be something there not. but its th only defense they have with how violent people are.

and while i agree its wrong i think its a good way to keep safe as well , i wprry about my friends ending up in a morgue , and i hope they keep safe. but till things can be made safer for them i can't say i blame them. though when it comes t sex they are always up front with the guy before hand so it does not get to intimate if the guy does not want that.

im a straight non trans guy, i love women more than life itself , and i have
awesome friends and thats why im posting this.

[Dipsy]

Probably a next level mental illness or something.
If your dna says you're a female. Then you're a female. If it says male, then you're a male. Simple.
You can't change to something you're not.

[Jnerdy97]

I don't like it personally. It doesn't make any sense. If you are born a boy then that's what you'll be. Same for a girl. If you feel that you need to change your gender then you need help. Psychiatric help. People are only doing it because it's more accepted now. So yea I don't like them. I try to stay away from them all. I try surround myself with people who are not touched in the head.

[LilahSteph]

Any person who believes in God would know it is wrong, they openly defy God's will and judgment for them but I would never bring myself to insult them or judge them because they are not any less human and they have a heart and as a person who believes in God, I cannot bring myself to cause someone misery or pain. Therefore, I am just indifferent.

[ThisDudeHere]

You defy god's will by showing cleavage. So now what?

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere Who said I'm perfect? But we cannot compare this to this, and you have just made me change it.

[ThisDudeHere]

No one said you're perfect - you're most def not, but neither am I.
Why can we not compare? Define what counts as a severe sin and what doesn't.
I didn't make you change anything, you yourself did. Apparently you didn't want to come off as hypocritical hypocritical.

[bruises]

@ThisDudeHere aw come on you made her change it lol. Yeah she's religious and I guess cleavage is considered not too cool, but at least she's not the type to pick and choose what scriptures she wants to follow over ones she'd rather ignore like most people do. She literally even changed it. But being a straight up dude and making a mockery out of women like that vs her sort of showing the natural cleavage she was born with isn't really comparable. Probably would get you sent to a shittier level of hell-- or something.

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere You are very wrong my friend. I am the child of two different religions and I am very confused when it comes to religion but I believe in One God. Anyway, I wouldn't care how I would come off as, I removed it because you pointed out it was a sin when I was not sure if it is or not because I don't belong in one specific religion's teachings but I can def know that changing gender is a sin because the one God I believe in gas created us all in one way and he wouldn't make a mistake. Changing his will is like implying He has mistake

[ThisDudeHere]

For your information, I am not religious so cleavage to me is not a "sin."
I merely pointed out that it is a sin in for religious people.

"but at least she's not the type to pick and choose what scriptures she wants to follow"

Um... excuse me but that was exactly what she was doing. From a religious point of view, cleaveage and transgenderism are sins, but she chose to focus on one while ignoring the other. That is cherry picking.

Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, it's a sin in either Christianity or Islam, if not both, for a woman to speak against a man. So technically you both are sinning now.

But of course you will conveniently ignore this sin.

[bruises]

@ThisDudeHere She wasn't picking and choosing because she changed it. She wouldn't of changed it if she was picking and choosing.

[bruises]

@ThisDudeHere I'm an athiest.

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere First I don't belong to any specific religion and who told you it's a sin to speak up to a man? Please learn about religions before speaking and I'm not picking and choosing, as I said I'm not perfect but I try hard to be decent

[ThisDudeHere]

No h8 m8

[bruises]

@ThisDudeHere Your response to me in particular didn't make sense it looked like you were implying I was religious with the whole you're both sinning by speaking back to a man comment, and like I said since she changed the picture she wasn't picking and choosing what was or wasn't sin just if she kept it. And even then, the comparison was just like apples and some unrelated vegetable. And for fucks sake, I'm an atheist please... never, get that twisted. No h8 to you either though..

[ThisDudeHere]

-I didn't know that you weren't religious. Since you came to her defense, I thought you were.
-But since she had that picture up BEFORE she posted up, she was picking and choosing.
-I know the two can't compare, but I had to make some kind of comparison.

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere I told you before, the picture was up because I didn't have any specific religion, I never officially claimed being a Christians, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew or belonging to any other religion. I just believe in God, the one who created me, the one who protects me and draws my path. Therefore, I cannot tell if that picture was a sin or no but I can definitely tell that the Creator of all wouldn't want you to change the way he created you. By showing that pictures, I wasn't harming myself nor anyone else, I was just being comfortable and accepting my natural self LIKE I WAS CREATED. But when you are comparing me to a person who went AGAINST the will of whatever force or God that created them and when I remove it just so I don't offend you, you go and call me hypocrite and tell me I'm choosing and picking. Anyway, I admit I'm human, I cannot be 100% sure, was born to sin and repent and you have no right to judge.

[ThisDudeHere]

But if God created them to feel out of place in their own body, doesn't that mean that he wants them to change? I mean, they have some kind of problems in their brain that are telling them that they are not the gender they were born as. Who put those problems there? They didn't themselves. God did.

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere God can never be wrong, he created the universe in such a perfect way, no human could ever understand. It has taken us thousands of years to create a spaceship whereas he got us floating in a balon in the middle of nowhere and we're still living. If the earth get 0,000001 mm closer to the sun we are all screwed and don't tell me it all came from nothing because 0+0 can never give 1 and he is the only perfect one. That's why us are sinners, because we can't be perfect like our God, we can only pray for him to help us and forgive us.

[ThisDudeHere]

If God can never be wrong then why did he change his mind and created the new testament? If God knows all then creating a new set of rules goes against that notion. Either he knows all and thus shouldn't and couldn't have created a new set of rules, or he doesn't know all.

And if every natural event is caused by God, and God can never be wrong, then that means God was right to cause yet another earth quake in Italy, killing innocent people. Children among them.
But I see no point in arguing over what "he" has done if there is no proof for him.
Again, if God is perfect, then why does he kill innocents?

[LilahSteph]

@ThisDudeHere God didn't change his mind about anything. Let me give you an example to enlighten you... A class are having a test, the teacher has given his lessons before, he explained it but only few students payed attention. On the day of the test, students who didn't follow the course started panicking and mixing all lessons and notions therefore they got bad marks. Is it the teacher's fault? No. Same with God, he sent us one message and every time we corrupted it he'd send it again.

And God knows better than all of us, if you knew anything about Earthquakes, it's how our planet breaths. As for people dying in natural disasters, I don't think God has to send us a notice 'Dear humans and servants, evacuate Italy today because the earth will breathe'. It makes no sense and sometimes innocent people die, bad people will rule and that's only a test. Good and evil will always live among us, right and wrong will always be present in our quotidian.

[ThisDudeHere]

Faulty logic.
"he sent us one message and every time we corrupted it he'd send it again."
-God knows everything. That means he would know how we'd react to his message. Meaning he'd know we'd corrupt it. Sending it again implies he adapted to our reaction and tried differently which doesn't make sense if he knows all.

"it's how our planet breaths"
-A planet is not a breathing being. It's a big rock, floating in space.

"and that's only a test"
-So God starting an Earthquake that makes a kindergarden collapse and kill most of the children inside is a "test"? He is generous indeed.

"Good and evil will always live among us, right and wrong will always be present in our quotidian."
-But why pray to a being who's intentions and actions are evil the majority of the time?

I mean, God was the one that made the lighting strike the plan which lead to it's subsequent crash. God was the one who saved those two or three people but he was the one who killed the other 200 people. Why? For a test?

[Mesonfielde]

If you have testicles then you're male, if you have ovaries then you're female, end of story

Trans people should realize that mutilation won't reverse the process that happened during the first trimester.

[JCT666]

I think it's a total abomination. A man will always be a man and a woman will always be a woman regardless of what they do with their bodies. The two biological sexes were never meant to intertwine.

[bruises]

THANK YOU.

[Blitzkrieger]

i believe it is wrong. these people chemically castrate and sterile themselves in order to reach their goals. if i were to go to a hospital and ask for chemical castration then they would send me back home. i think it should not be tolerated in society. i also think that it is a burden for society.

[Curmudgeon]

You are absolutely right. These people do not "Change" their sex. They mutilate it. They need mental health help. And yes, I do feel badly for people who are mentally disturbed.

[skeptic002]

i feel sad for them honestly
but it's so much fun
making fun of them cause there that stupid they believe there a women
and the women believes she's a man
pix.iemoji.com/.../face-with-tears-of-joy.png
so i shame them now when they come at me for believing there's a god and he made male and female

[Hollywood-Glam]

I agree, they shouldn't be hiding that they're transsexual. They should let other people know what they are.

[Xfitchick]

You are 100 years old, so its not important to you anymore :-)

[bruises]

18..

[Xfitchick]

that looks better :-)

[alice55]

That's disturbing honestly. I don't know if they're women or guy and I find too that they're quite weird too.

[anonman32]

I think its unethical for them not to tell people they are trans. Some say it after being years into a marriage, i think that is not ethpi

[anonman32]

*but i also believe it is unethical for people to hold back that they are smokers or take drugs or something.

[bruises]

It's the dishonesty.

[fauchelevent]

I support them and I've had a lot of good trans friends in the past.

[dishonorableusername]

This is the most transphobic shit I have ever read. I recommend educating yourself on this subject. Might I suggest having an open-minded, respectful conversation with a trans person (like myself) about their experiences and struggles with gender?

[Girlanony]

I got bored too by reading all this crap, but what the hell, I'll answer what you asked: I think you're an ignorant bitch.
But stay cool, with reading a little bit and informing yourself about the subjetc, you can overcome the "ignorant" part.

[bruises]

I doubt you didn't read the whole thing even though your response was dumb as fuck like if you didn't and then you shouldn't of responded. What ever.. lol. I'm gonna chalk it up to you're just a dumb bitch or "thing" yourself.

I already knew I was right and have a valid point I was just curious about what the average mindset was.
I'm more educated on the subject than you're capable of being on anything in general obviously and I unfortunately work with one of those things and he/it is the biggest joke and rudest bitch. You're too pathetic.. educate YOUR self, you think that men that pretend to be women and vice versa are cute and normal and not insulting to the people that were born with that gender or are sexually taking advantage of them by lying. You're either just stupid and weird as fuck or a tranny yourself, which means just that.

[Girlanony]

Wow you really are super educated, I can see by the way you talk haha... if you don't want answer you dislike, then why you ask? I actually answer one of the two options you gave in your pedant question.
Let me repeat it for ya:
"Do you think I have a point or do you think I'm an ignorant bitch."
I chose the second option, which is that "you are an ignorant bitch". So calm down, if you don't others to call you names, then don't do it yourself lol

[Girlanony]

And you call "a thing" to whoever you want, that doesn't make any better of a person... but it's ok, go repeat yourself you are a perfect person by disliking those hideous creatures! haha, most likely they'll cry a lot by knowing the way you think about them, because you know, your opinion is way too important!

[bruises]

Okay yeah I got bored and skimmed over that. I wouldn't of said shit if you said that you thought I was an ignorant bitch I would of genuinely left it at that because yeah that's an option you can totally say that, this is sort of a poll. But after you wrote that, it looked like you actually thought that I was considering that possibility myself and also implied that I didn't already know what I was talking about when I do unfortunately, even first hand in real life at work. I know a lot about that shit. Knowing about it in it's entirety or at least most of it doesn't mean you're gonna respect it or not find it weird and gross and finding it weird and gross doesn't mean you're not educated on the subject because if you were you'd be fine with it. *If* that's what you think then that's ignorant.

[Girlanony]

We are not going to get anywhere, because just like you say you "know about the subject because you work with those things", I say the same I've worked and studied them (them as people, you moronic narcissist haha), so yes, of course I choose that option and add a comment that was of my understanding and freedom of thought... cuz you know, you're not the only one that can state her opinion. Just saying...

[Tanairy328]

G8 B8 M8

[ThisDudeHere]

*gr8

[Tanairy328]

sucks they don't have the option to edit on here :P oh well

[ThisDudeHere]

but at least you tried lol

[bruises]

Yeah... I was gonna ask if that's what you meant. Had me squinting all confused and shit...

[Tanairy328]

lmao

[crs9683]

They're not human.

[bruises]

I wish it was illegal to do that honestly. Like in Dubai you'll get detained and told to fly back to where ever you came from for imitating and making a mockery out of women. It's a legal federal offense. Ugh. I'm not even religious *at all* it's just fucked up to an actual real girl.

[cheesypeezzz]

it's pretty medically valid.

[_Türk_]

I don't care.