What do you think about feminism?

[Kacper_Poland]

What is it about i just can't understand?

[George1992]

The basic idea behind feminism — that women should have the same rights as men — is really good.

Feminism goes further than this, and argues that women should also be free from types of oppression that are only suffered by women, at the hands of men. That’s also good!

Sometimes modern feminism turns into an excuse for sexism against men and becomes an all-encompassing way of looking at the world, in which women are all victims and men are all oppressors. Obviously that’s ridiculous and most women wouldn’t agree with it. It is promoted by a small percentage of “feminists” who, from the point of view of most “normal” people, are distinctly abnormal and do not represent the interests of normal women.

For me as a man that’s OK, because it’s a source of entertainment. None of my female friends, or women I’ve ever had a relationship with, have ever been one of these crazy ultra-feminists. They all thought those women were crazy. They all believed in equality for women, as do I.

There are still countries were women are basically oppressed by men. That needs to change, so it is a pity that now if a woman says she is a feminist, we don’t know if she means she wants to sort out real problems, or if she means she believe the entire world is controlled by a patriarchy and men in general are rapist oppressors.

[Canadaman99]

What confuses you is that you think a vocal minority is a fair representation of the movement. And there is not yet true equality so they keep pushing. My sister was told she shouldn't have her job because she is a woman, and gets constantly ridiculed for "pretending to be a man".
But never forget: equality ends at 10lbs and the draft. Or so to speak, irregardless of your physical abilities women will get hired into jobs that they may not be able to do and thus their coworkers have to overwork for the same pay (This is not always the case!!!), And while women want equal rights, how many actually want to be on the draft?

[MlleCake]

If there is to be an army, I believe it should be a people's army, and that a fair cross section of able-bodied Americans should be chosen. Feminists are fighting now for women to be treated humanely and fairly in the military, for women to have the right to serve in combat, and for women to be promoted into higher ranks in a more equitable way, so please, do us all a favor and quit hauling out this 5o year old trope about women avoiding the draft. We don't even have a fucking draft anymore.

[Canadaman99]

Of course the women actively involved are. But I would like to know how many that aren't currently involved in military type roles or have an active steak in it, actually are pushing for representive positions and drafts. Also I don't give a flying fuck about the American military or how it operates so long as it is not an enemy of my nation or commiting unjustifiable war crimes. And despite there being no current draft, you are naive if you think there would not be a return to a draft in the event on a global conflict like those seen in the 19th and 20th centuries. It's a dialogue that should be had in a more encompassing theater than just who willingly enlisted

[CountessSarah]

That's normal.

Feminists are very cunning in the way they use words and explain what they mean.
They'll put up the 'Feminism is just about equality between the sexes!' smokescreen when they're in trouble, but that's not true, there's much more than that.

Feminism is like a doctrine. It doesn't have a specific holy text, but it sure has some weird rules and tenets.
The wage gap myth, patriarchy myth, catcalling, manspreading, mansplaining, 'Intersectionality', whatever.
Tell a feminist that you're also a feminist, but attack any of these concepts and there's a very strong chance you'll be attacked for it, that's if they don't immediately claim that men can't be feminists.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is the simple belief that men and women each deserve social, economic, and political equality, equity, fairness and justice. And that women should have the power and freedom to determine their own destinies (men too actually.) We support intersectionalism in our understandings of unique challenges different women face worldwide.

[Deformate]

You have these equalities yet you fight for... more?

[spakadoo]

I can't think of one law that men have over woman where Im from.

[Deformate]

Exactly. The term 'flogging a dead horse' springs to mind.

[Deformate]

If anything, men have the rough end of the stick.

[spakadoo]

Shhhh don't say that it's impossible!

[muffinmanwolfe]

Wrong, feminism believes in equal rights, pay, etc. for women. But not for men. When was the last time you saw a feminist rally for men serving longer prison sentences or the male suicide rate being 75% higher than women, or that 3/4 homeless people are men? You didn't, because feminism isn't about equality of the genders. Egalitarianism is.

[spakadoo]

Very true @muffinmanwolfe

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe Yes, feminism fights FOR women. If men are seeing problems in THEIR ranks, then THEY should be working on those. But basically, you are an anti-feminist repeating right wing talking points that have never been based on what feminists are actually doing.

Now, I actually support comprehensive prison reform including sentencing reform, and have actually been involved in political action, along with many other feminists. Have YOU?

I have been working with men and women who have mental illness to promote recovery (preventing suicides). Have YOU?

I have spent countless hours serving and speaking with homeless men and women to promote recovery. Have YOU?

Several of these problems could be helped with a great deal more funding, and since men control more capital, it would be really great to have men pouring their time and resources into these things. Some are. Are YOU?

[Opinion Owner]

@Deformate We don't. After we have been half of all the US presidents, half of all the congress people, senators, judges, CEOS, then maybe you and I can talk about how we've achieved equal treatment in society. When we have paid parental leave for all, maybe we'll talk. In western countries, we're still striking down sexist laws and practices. They aren't gone yet.

[spakadoo]

What rights do men have that woman don't?
For everything to be equal everyone of high power (Congress, etc) has to be 50/50 men and women?
A woman can be a president if she is good enough, a woman can be in Congress if she is good enough. There is nothing stopping woman from reaching these positions but herself.
Women choose to go down different career paths to men and there is nothing wrong with that, stop forcing the agenda that society needs to make everything 50/50 for equality.

[muffinmanwolfe]

"Oh, you're just repeating right wing talking points, what you say has no basis in fact." Funny, considering im not a conservative. And im not an anti feminist, im more anti third wave misandry. Also, you invalidated your own argument right in the first sentance. And what I have done personally has no room in this debate. Its about as bad as me saying "well, im a better person because I've probably given more money to homeless people, and I've helped more people change a tire and fixed their car for free." Oh wait! Im a better feminist too because most of them were women!

[muffinmanwolfe]

Preventing suicides is where ill start next. Absolutely, my mother worked as a rape counciler at a community college where I live, as she has a masters in criminal psychology, and occasionally, theyd call asking for her, and id have to take the helm by default.

[Opinion Owner]

@spakadoo It isn't strictly about rights, but also the unimpeded exercise of such. We have legislators enacting laws to curtail one specific right we have and they keep having to go to appeal and get struck down. Don't be fooled. Our rights are under attack too.

[muffinmanwolfe]

Also, from there, Id love to join an MRA group if there was one around me that isn't scared of going public because the feminist movement will just come and shut iy down again like it does everything else.

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe So, you want to accuse feminists of not doing stuff to help men and that means we aren't for equality in your mind. But YOU aren't doing anything to solves these problems either. So why are these problems men have somehow feminism's cross to bear? I didn't say YOU were conservative. I said you were repeating anti-feminist right-wing talking points. And you ARE.

[muffinmanwolfe]

And sorry, but just because you dont have equal representaion in congress or with the president does not mean that you dont have the RIGHT to. Also, to clarify, im for abortion and gay and trans rights. And I've got 9 years in the army.

[muffinmanwolfe]

These aren't just talking points, the movement you claim to be a part of Literally thinks its sexist for a man to say anything, or have his legs open in a car, a bus, or a train. Your movement claims to be for trans rights, but will just as easily assult a trans person if they look even in the slightest bit like a conservative. Im more of a centrist. But the problem with your movement along with regressive left, is that anything that stands to the right of the far left they consider alt right, even if that person is still left of the middle.

[muffinmanwolfe]

Also, how the fuck am I supposed to be doing somethung that helps men? Every program out there that helps men, also helps women, but not the other way around. Remember that Male Battered mens shelter? Cause I dont, because it got shut down.

[spakadoo]

@muffinmanwolfe boom Bada boom pow you got rid of the cow.

[muffinmanwolfe]

Not yet... she'll be back. Also, so nice of her to stay anonymous. isn't that generally what they accuse men of doing being trolls?

[Deformate]

Muffinmanwolfe, I hate to be so crude but you are pissing in the wind here bud. You can be as open minded as you like, modern day feminists just aren't receptive to any ideology that isn't their own.

[spakadoo]

Anonymity means shit in my opinion you can easily make a fake account it's the Internet after all.

[Opinion Owner]

@Deformate We actually know that there are ways that the patriarchy hurts men too, and we'd love to see you freed from that tyranny as well.

[spakadoo]

Actually it's obvious why she's anonymous I bet she looks... Triggered?

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe I'm MlleCake. I almost always post anonymously because I want what I say to be focused on. Not who I am.

[Deformate]

Patriarchy hurts men? How so?

[muffinmanwolfe]

Lets just make sure that we smash the patriarchy for women first. Sad thing is, I really hate that I have to be against the movement of feminism. But seriously, all the major political activists do nothing but put down men, talk about how strong women are, and the complain about how a character in a video game is dressed to sexily and theyre triggered.

[muffinmanwolfe]

Actually @Deformate, i have to take her side on this one. She can call it "the patriarchy," i prefer to call it society at large which includes men and women. However, this Toxic Masculinity thing does exist, just not in the way that prominent feminist speakers talk about. Toxic Masculinity is going into a job intoview and not being hired because you're not good enough looking or have a small frame. Its when you go to a bar and some guy talks shit to you and wants to fight because you drive a miata and not an American car (person story).

[muffinmanwolfe]

But, in a sense, it does exist. But its not just men against men, it women against men too. If you go in for a job interview to be a bartenter, chances are, their going to hire a woman over you. Especially if the person interviewing you is female. (Again, been there, done that.)

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe There are people currently working, right now, to create more shelters for men and non-women. I support that. Most feminists I know do. Are you contacting any of these groups to help them?

Yes, feminism and feminists have a complicated relationship with transwomen, I won't deny that. We're figuring it out as we go just like the rest of society.

You want to join an MRA group but you don't want to be thought of as anti-feminists. Har har.

[muffinmanwolfe]

Because MRA groups are NOT anti feminist, i mea have you seen the red pill?

[muffinmanwolfe]

Also, i dont think their should be an exclusive mens shelter, shelters should be open to everyone regardless of gender and/or gender identity. And I feel conservatives would agree with that.

[Deformate]

I gotta disagree there wolfe. It someone has been a victim in domestic abuse, they are probably gonna be nervous around the opposite sex for a while. It might be a good idea to keep a few gender exclusive shelters but I dont disagree the point that they should have shelters for both genders. That shoud be default.

[muffinmanwolfe]

You know, thats a fair point.

[Deformate]

I do like an open minded person :)

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe @Deformate, and I agree with you both that there should be shelters for all the people who need them. Maybe that is mostly women, but certainly not ONLY women. I don't want to see anyone abused, and I want to see appropriate resources out there to help whomever it is who needs it. I know very few feminists who disagree with this. But we women fought for our shelters, and we're not preventing anyone else from funding shelters for men. I just don't see how you think feminists are behind some conspiracy to keep men from having domestic violence shelters. If you need and want them, create them. Plenty of us will help too.

Overall, you have both thrown out things that you see as legitiamte social problems, and said feminists don't care, but in terms of the ones mentioned, I could point to direct work I have done, as a feminist, on each of those issues, and I know many feminists who have done the same.

[Deformate]

You sound more like an egalitarianist though if Im being honest.

[muffinmanwolfe]

I really do try, and im not saying that feminism doesn't have any legitimate talking points. The problem is the movement as a whole is completely out of control, and has nothinf but support from politicians, the media, and many companies because its profitable. At some points, their arguments are intrinsically at odds with one another. Like manspreading, lets ban men from sitting with their legs mildly apart, but dont look at the woman over their whos taking up three seats with her bags. The issue isn't about women having equality, its about taking mens ability to do anything away and replacing it as the defacto matriarch rule of law.

[Deformate]

Erm... without the ist on the end. Its late lol.

[muffinmanwolfe]

And @Somewhat anonymous, i really dp enjoy having these conversations. Perhaps we could Skype sometime and see what each other has to say?

[Opinion Owner]

@muffinmanwolfe The woman with the bags is expected to, and usually will, move them when someone demonstrates they need to sit down.

I want to address this though "The issue isn't about women having equality, its about taking mens ability to do anything away and replacing it as the defacto matriarch rule of law." I appreciate that you feel this way, and you have a ton of men on the right rallying with this battle cry. But this isn't and has never been the actual goal of feminism - but yes, men are losing some privilege to do things how they always saw fit, and I don imagine that feels great. But if your life w not so tied up in the little things that oppress women, it wouldn't feel like such a loss when we ask that those societal ills be eradicated. I mean, think about it - is it really right for men not to be prosecuted for assaults they legitimately committed? Is it really right for men to take up three seats on crowded trains? It really isn't.

[CubsterShura]

I didn't understand it as well, until something happened and now I'm a feminist. Used to write feminist blogs in past.

[Deformate]

Genuinely sounds lime you just said that you didn't really concern yourself. with feminism until it benefitted you to do so.

[CubsterShura]

@Deformate If by benefit you mean that I opened up about now discriminated I felt in my family and discussed it with them and now my brother and I are taken equally, then yes.

[JCT666]

Feminism simply is the belief of gender equality, which I think is good for women particularly in the third world where their rights are still limited in this day.

I don't support feminism for women in the west because privileged, middle-class, fuckin' white women are in no way oppressed.

[MlleCake]

White women are not the only ones who live in Western countries.

[JCT666]

@MlleCake No, but that doesn't mean that women of other backgrounds are oppressed in the west. For example, black women have much better lives in the west than black women in Africa. It's that simple.

[MlleCake]

Better yes, but are women experiencing true and full equality in the west yet? No. There is still work to do, all over the world, and it in all intertwined.

[JCT666]

@MlleCake What oppressions do women face in the west today? That's quite laughable.

[MlleCake]

www.theguardian.com/.../women-legal-discrimination-worldwide-consequences

alochonaa.com/.../

msmagazine.com/.../

[LegateLanius]

I think it is good to elevate women to the level of men but, that is more for countries that women are still facing second class citizenship. The crazy stuff women do over here for the pushing down of men and the goal of treating men like shit is not feminism.

[grega239]

A hate group thats basically a religion at this point and its members r either delusionally insane and power hungry vengeful cunts or so stupid they can't see that they were brainwashed and indoctrinated

[TheJinxGod]

They hide under equality but in reality it’s about women having special privileges.

[dipeshb]

Feminism - too much power given to a particular gender!
Even a false allegation can ruin a guys career

[Guava_11]

Don't need it.
Equal pay - no problem
Gender equality - no problem
Only problem is that VAT tax on tampons becuase they are classed as luxury items

[Lutherthesaint]

Its protecting women from men when it should protect women from women

[MlleCake]

Actually, we're trying to dismantle a system that is also upheld by women, so in a sense, you're not entirely right. But I'd love to hear more from you about this. You make an interesting point and I'd like to see you flesh it out.

[CrystaMat]

Feminist just discriminate the male gender, if they want be treated like us they should be also working such jobs as a bricklayer or something like that

[MlleCake]

You know that feminism has fought for able bodied women to be admitted to these types of careers? And we are not asking to be treated like you. We are asking to be treated fairly.

[Sixgun77]

feminism is fine, its about women being people with rights and needs.
This 3rd wave misandrist shit ain't feminism.

[kelvinmed]

It's needed. Women deserve respect, equal pay and rights. We also need to end rape culture

[crazyburnerz]

It's not that bad but the woman who are fighting for it are just cringy and annoying

[andy6511]

A sex has zip to do with what ever we are doing. Sex is a bad way to judge someone

[LoveBirb]

What is it that you don't understand about it?

[Kacper_Poland]

All. Just why?

[LoveBirb]

Well, by definition, feminism is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.
It aims to guarantee all of these to all people, regardless of gender. A lot of people will argue that feminism has only benefited women, but feminists have fought for men as well. Men can be homemakers and take part in more traditionally feminine hobbies and jobs with much less discrimination than they used to face. Although more work needs to be done. Its still incredibly difficult for men to find jobs in childcare, for example.
The basic principles behind feminism are that Everyone should be treated fairly, nobody should be left out, respect your differences, don't judge people by their looks, etc.
Just like in any movement, there are extremists. Its important to remember that these people are not an example of the movement itself.

[LoveBirb]

Most women who identify with the movement strongly do so because of something they went through or the things that other women have been through. We don't only support the movement for ourselves, but also for women in other countries like India where women are still forced into arranged marriages and some middle eastern countries in which it is legal and fairly common to beat and rape your wife.
Feminism also strives for equality for transgendered peoples who face discrimination daily. Ultimately feminism is a movement used to stand up for the vulnerable and those of us who are lucky enough to live in first world countries where the male to female divide is so much smaller try to use that privilege to help other women who were never given a choice or a voice.

[LeeKenz]

It's about finding equality for all.

[Deformate]

No, that would be egalitarianism. Feminism is about women wanting the same rights as men, which they do. Modern day feminism is just a pestilence.

[Deformate]

Egalitarianism

[mead99]

They're already equal

[LeeKenz]

But they aren't. And they old definition for feminism is wanting equality for all

[Deformate]

Not quite LeeKenz

[LeeKenz]

Whatever

[Deformate]

You are a feminist?

[LeeKenz]

No I'm an egalitarian

[LeeKenz]

I can't say feminist anymore without someone getting offended

[Deformate]

Im not offended if thats what you mean. I just meant you werent quite right about wjat you thought the initial feminist movement was about. It was about claiming basic rights that were denied them but offered to men by default based purely on their gender. The right to own property, the right to vote etc.

[LeeKenz]

I know what it was I didn't say the movement I said the word itself the definition is about wanting equality for all. But that has changed drastically.

[Deformate]

Oh indeed. Im glad you said egalitarianism was your thing. I hate to sound cliché bit I genuinely view third wave feminism as toxic for everyone.

[LeeKenz]

Me too! That's why I no longer claim feminism as my belief in equality because all they do is complain about stupid shit

[711paulister]

Bullshit after the first wave of feminism

[disgustingweebtrash]

It's cancer

[Nandhankr]

They are great. That's it. No words apart

[Anonymous]

Full of malarkey. And shit.

[Kiran04]

Feminism is cancer.

[tartaarsaus]

Indifference

[Abraham_ééé]

It's plain shit 💩

[CT_CD]

It's stupid

[SuperMan89s]

Its bullshit !

[Anonymous]

I hate it

[mead99]

Its straight cancer