Recently I got into a heated debate with my lecturer about feminism. We were suppose to break down a thesis and I chose to speak about third world feminism (basically inequality towards woman and children in much poorer, less developed counties). I was talking about how first would feminism, mainly the USA has overshadowed the actual meaning of feminism. And why I chose not to be a feminist for certain things American feminists are fighting for. Example: why should the color blue only be related to boys and pink to girls, or man spreading, being extremely obese and calling it "confidence'. And just hating the subtext of "men". But, there are so many great things they fought for. I. e:voting, my body my choice, work hierarchy, body positivity ( the healthy one), why "women related products" are more expensive compared to men. Which in all in is just consumerism and marketing. Anyways, coming back the third world feminism. While I was enlightening my fellow classmates about this topic, my lecturer cuts me off and says that I've picked a rather "challenging" topic for me to comprehend and in a way says that this topic is rather "useless". This behaviour irked me of course, because women and children in poor countries are going through child marriages, abuse, gender discrimination, being "brides" to pedophiles and the worst baby girls being killed because parents only want sons. Personally, I feel like the reason why some people are not supportive of feminism is because first world countries have been on the spotlight for so long with some of the nonsensical things their fighting for until there's no room for other countries to voice out. So what are your thoughts about this matter?
Ugh... I already talked to a guy earlier today about feminism and why I abhor it. After that, I'm frankly not in the mood to hear anymore false bullshit about how the most protected class of life in the entire history of Earth has been "oppressed" all throughout society.
In short, (Western) feminists are literally some of the dumbest and least useful people alive and the entire ideology is disgusting and horrible. Here's the recap of what I said with the guy:
POINT 1: [I've met many feminists in real life.] They always start off rational enough, but whenever I ask them deeper questions, their can never give me any kind of rational, logical, or semi-intelligent answers whatsoever.
Questions like "Why are you a feminist? Why do you think feminist has a monopoly on women's rights? Why is it a negative for you to believe in women's rights without calling yourself a feminist? What rights do Western women have that men do not? Why do feminists always complain about non-problems of first world women, but do nothing to address major problems of third world women? Why do feminists claim to be about 'gender equality' but do nothing but bash, belittle, and berate men? Why do feminists not complain about the unfair advantages women have or the unfair disadvantages men have? Who were the first feminists? What was the ultimate goal of the 1848 Seneca Falls Convention? Why do people wrongfully think the Suffragettes were 'heroes' who fought for women's suffrage (they delayed it by 9 years due to arson and vandalism)?" And so on... I've done this song and dance for over ten years. I can safely say I know more about Western feminism than 99.999% of all self-proclaimed feminists. And it's not something that I can say is positive or beneficial for society at all (with the small exception to second-wave).
I know it may seem like a gross oversimplification or inaccurate myth to just call feminism a misandrist hate movement for insecure hateful women. But it's sure as hell not an inaccurate one, when you've learned as much as I have.
POINT 2: Ultimately, I don't care what label people want to call themselves. Actions speak louder than words. I don't agree with the label [of feminism], but I'm fine with the "Egalitarian" feminists. In both real life and social media however, I'd say those are only about 5 to 10% of self-proclaimed feminists, and they sure as hell don't speak out against the third and fourth wave feminists who think male castration and male suicides are "the right step towards society." I see feminists spend more time defending the name of feminism than actually helping women who need help (and never helping men who need help, obviously).
In short, there's no need for ANYONE to call themselves a "feminist" and take on all the baggage of #killallmen and BS like rape culture and the wage gap, if they actually want to make a difference in women's and men's lives. But they do, and I already know why they do. But in the end, actions speak louder than words, for both the misandrists and the egalitarian "feminists."
POINT 3: [Feminism has literally never been about "gender equality." That's a complete myth.]
Proto-feminism: About not treating women like second-class citizens.
First wave: About giving women more political rights and privileges, namely and primarily, suffrage.
Second wave: About ending gender discrimination, breaking women's gender roles, and opening up women's sexual liberation.
Third wave: Dismantling patriarchy, ending the wage gap, destroying rape culture, ending the pink tax.
Fourth wave: Internationality, diversity, and inclusion, including a stronger focus on women of color (WOC's) like Bell Hooks, LGBTQ, and transwomen.
These are all of the core goals and focuses on feminism. Basically, what they stood for. I'm not even saying I agree with these or that they accomplished any of this stuff (they mostly did not). I'm just telling you, this is what ACTUAL feminists scholars, professionals, and activists in each wave stood for. Feminism has quite literally never been about "gender equality" and that tagline and bait-and-switch was not even a thing prior to 2003-2004 or so. It's a tagline, nothing more. This is why I said feminists don't even know the basics of what they claim to fight for. [They're complete idiots.]
So obviously a complex topic with a lot of moving bits,
Assuming this is more for an academic environment I would note that there are different kinds of feminisms, not just ideologically (i. e. intersectional/ lipstick or queer) but also in function. Simone de Beauvoir would in academia be extremely influential, on many subjects outside just sociology or philosophy; but is probably pretty dismissible to the “anti-man spreading” buzz-feed style feminism that I think your criticising. I’m not trying to claim any use of feminism as better than any other, but many people don’t generally make or are aware of any difference in intent, but in an academic space you probably should.
A small general criticism of ‘third world feminism’.
It often trends close to imperialistic politics, ironically. Despite its intentions there can often be an implied assumptions that these countries are inherently lesser or lack their own autonomy thus needing the kind of direct action you seem to be purposing. Even the term ‘third world’ implies some kind of rank. This doesn’t dismiss this branch of feminism, or exclude the atrocities which happen to women through the world however. But again, if you wish to talk about it in an academic environment I would be aware of this trend, and encourage reading up on post-colonialist theorist, such as ‘Frantz Fanon’/ ‘Edward Said’ (these are a good place to start, probably not the best to finish).
Other writers I would encourage reading are:
‘Shirin M. Rai’ and ‘Sikata Banerjee’ for there work on nationalism/ national identity and gender, particularly how it shapes masculinity which is often overlooked in feminist spheres but worth understanding at least for context.
I would also look into Emma Goldman, who had a lot of views on race/ gender/ economics and sex, which were all very ahead of the time, and very interesting from a historical perspective. But pacifically she had a lot of views on how nationality and its function.
To be clear I’m not saying I agree with all or any of these writers, but if this is something you want to pursue seriously, these are a few names you should have a good understanding of.
It is misused by people in power aka by people in the media. Sane feminists get silenced like some sane german feminists who dont get any support anymore by media due to trend in america. Every trend or new thing that happens in america influence foreign media too. Furthermore, i know a turkish feminist organisation who get shut down/cancelled for critizising antiman propaganda and swjs. I also know turkish lbgt website that get sabotaged because they did not want to support the current lbgt agenta etc. Any liberal movement like blm, feminism, lbgt get used by oppurtinists or people in power for vote, clout or whatever but in the end real activists get harmed by it. Hollywood itself was very conservative few decades ago but now they are very liberal. In the past religion, conservative values were used by the oppurtinists but now it is the opposite. So Hollywood also use any liberal movement which harm real liberals etc. Is it real coincidence that hollywood change itself 180 %? I dont support the "feminism " in media, hollywood etc because this is not feminism. They use feminism for their own selfish purpose and so they dont care about women I only support sane feminists who dont get any support and whose voice dont get a plattform in my experience If you want to get a plattform you have to be " feminazis" which i dont understand. Men's problems affect women and vica versa. So men's problems are women's problems and vica versa. For example you may have a dad, son, brother, husband/boyfriend etc and their problems indirectly affects you and vica versa. I also know many pro choice men and being against men only will affects you in a negative way lol.. So it does not make sense for me to hate men. We need each other. I know many sane feminists who are married for 10 years. Yes marriage can be feminist. Feminism is actually about choice. So a feminist can be a housewife or a career woman.
I also dont like how the feminism in the media are negative towards white men but like muslims which is hypocritical. I am not racist but it is a fact that men in western world which are mostly white men respect women more than in asia/africa. This is my opinion on American media/hollywood feminism.
The jail time for rape was 6 month-2 years in many european countries which is changed thanks to turkish feminist contract two years ago. HOWEVER, women still have problems like not having the right for abortion in some european countries but also dont have the right for sterilization when they dont have kids and ain't under their 40s in germany. Then there is a problem with violence in labor ward in germany/austria. Kids also can get taked away from you for ridiculous reasons. No wonder why women dont want to have kids. Anal rape is legal in switzerland because anal rape is seen sexual harrassment! The sex industry is corrupt also corrupt as f even in germany. Majority of prostitutes in germany get lied, betrayed and get selled false promises from poor countries. Most of them work to financially support their families in poor countries. If they go to police, they get sent to their poor countries where they end up homeless and starved. Porn directors choose vulnerable young people and approach 17 years Girls and wait till they they become 18 years old. Porn industry can be directed to sex traffic too. The age of consent is also very low. I know a man whose 14 years daughter live with a 40 years old man and the dad can't do anything because the police can't help them. So this world disgusts me
I am a feminist myself (at this point I don't even think it is a secret). There, unfortunately, is a WIDE gap between what feminism is supposed to mean and what is being portrayed.
The base definition is just the advocacy of women's rights based on equality of the sexes. Somewhere along the way that message got hella corrupted. These shock factor tactics that some have already listed in their responses are just a radicalized version of the original message.
For this who have read my past messages about this you'll know that I really am about equality. I advocate for men too on that same front. I think they deal with a lot of bs that we take for granted as women. That needs to stop. From our end, we need to stop being dismissed by certain men in this country who think the fight is over and that just because we have it better than 100 years ago we are equals.
You can tell this fight isn't over just by the stupid posts we get around here calling women hoes for having sex, but it is ok for guys to do. In the MyTake I just put out there, it was about women taking a stand about the uniforms they were being forced to wear and how women were starting to be taken more seriously when it came to reporting assaults. Instead of seeing what the message was actually about, I got a ton of responses of how women's sports are not as popular as men's sports and without skimpy uniforms nobody would watch.
Does anyone see the problem with that? Certain parts of the population are still ok with saying the only worth a woman's value has is to be eye candy and serve men's sexual interest. We are certainly not yet equals. Now I already know I am going to get the guy with no reading comprehension come in at some point and say "yeah, well what about what guys deal with?" I need you to read this next line carefully.
It isn't always about you.
Sometimes a group needs a bit of advocacy when something is not equal to others. It doesn't lessen other groups. Equal rights for women doesn't mean that guys suck and we want to be better than them. Gay pride isn't about making us better than hetero people. Black lives matter wasn't about saying black lives were the only ones that mattered.
I am not sure why that is hard for some people to grasp. The only thing I can think of is an imagined loss of position within the power structure of society or not understanding a struggle outside of their own experiences.
"Women in my company are paid the same as men." Great! That isn't the same experience that occurs in every workplace though and that is why movements like feminism exist.
Like I said, unfortunately there are going to be those few (or maybe more than a few) who take things way too far and it only hurts the cause. All sides need to filter out those extremist voices and stick with the core message.
Become a woman, experience what we do, then speak to oppression. I mean, it is that simple. You can't just say it doesn't exist anymore and treated better on average.
"Oh hey it isn't as bad as before, now shut your mouth."
It isn't as bad because we have made progress. It isn't stopping with "good enough". It will stop when equality is there across the board.
"Sometimes a group needs a bit of advocacy when something is not equal to others. It doesn't lessen other groups." And that is exactly the problem. When speaking specifically about things like abortion or slut-shaming, the MRAs will come out in full force, shouting "But what about the men?" And when speaking about male victims of rape or domestic abuse, the feminists hijack the discussion because they seem to think it takes focus away from female victims. Maybe if MRAs would ACTUALLY start discussing men's issues seriously and not just treat it as a response to someone talking about women's issues, things would actually get done... Of course, when you see feminists trying to shut down male support centers, that's obviously going to make those guys even more bitter and convinced that every single feminist in the world wants to shut up discussions about issues men face.
Yeah, the anger in those kind of people who want to tear others down are frustrating. Victims of sexual assault and rape are victims no matter their gender. It isn't a contest of who had it worse just like it isn't a contest of which *sshole who sexually assaulted them is more of a monster.
The radicalized portion of any group whether it be feminists, any political party, etc. really detracts from the real message that was intended and makes everyone else take the whole less seriously. This idea of needing to tear men down to gain equal rights or even become more powerful than men is asinine. First, I don't want to be more powerful than men, but I sure as heck don't want to have to deal with the way society treats each side based on old stereotypes that others haven't realized we have moved beyond. Second, as women why would we want to tear men down at all if we are trying to get equal rights? Why lower them to 75% when we can all lift ourselves to 100%?
@Hallo626262 "Sorry but women just aren't oppressed anymore. They actually get treated much better on average."
What? Really? There are still so many issues that woman have to still deal with, for instance: Marital rape and domestic abuse are still not illegal in many parts of the world.
Back in the turn of the 20th Century, it was necessary. It was about giving women the ability to have the same equality of opportunity in business and politics.
Now it's more about equality of outcome. And it's about a soci-economic war to transfer power and control of men who did what was necessary to become successful, and simply transfer it to women because they need readdress from their perceive losses in employeement and wages. They like to take aggregate wages from all sectors, and show disparity whereas when you focus on specific jobs, at specific companies and women often make more money than their male counterparts at the same job and experience. And to add insult, many women juggle motherhood, which has mothers leaving work to tend to sick kids and come in late and leave early, whereas most men do just the opposite, but when a man struggles to succeed, it's called toxic, when a woman gets paid more to do actually less at her company, it's called a flute because everyone believe women are challenged, and has work life issues between home and work. To her point of view, she is pushed to the point of nearly breaking down.
Now it's not that simple. It's very hard to raise kids and have a challenging corporate career and their own business. Something has to give. Mothers are having less children, and paying others to raise them. In many cases without the father, who they often claim left them, but when you really take it apart, the woman married a guy, cut back on him with sex, became a nagger, ran up the credit cards and became hard to live with.
And people will say he should do more, the husband or partner finds that his wife or partner leaves about 70-90% of the time, and claim that she was forced to disolve the relationship because she had to be brave to leave a bad relationship. And if you wait just some time you will find that she was trying to find a better partner to begin with, after she lost respect for current man or husband. No one considers the dynamics of modern relationships working at biological levels that no one understands happening in real time.
What modern feminism has done has destroyed the family and kids suffer the most. If you look at how pathetic and weak-minded children of this generation are, it's because their care has been outsourced and often being babysitted by electronics.
Back when women ran the house, the neighborhoods were safer so kids could play outside. Now most suburbs and cities has so few kids playing like they use to just 30 years ago that had kids climbing trees and visiting their other friends down the street. That time and era is gone. Is it a bad thing? Most people live homes alone and feeling incomplete. This is very common, so much that single people out number married people.
Now we as a country have to find people from other countries to come work because things still need to be made and harvested. In Europe they imported people from the middle east. It's causing cultural shifts and anger. Same thing is playing out in US with south Americans being invited in causing new cultural shifts. Some love all the diversity, but in reality it's causing islands of people and conflict.
Pretty much feminism is behind all the problems that has caused this idea that we need to change our world for the sake of weaker people who can't compete and have less time and effort to do what it takes to see us through the good times and the bad. Seeing that we now are designing maternity flight suits for military pilots, the absurdity is so blaten. When the next conventional war should ever start, American might will be on full show and likely to be our undoing.
Petty BS excuse for entitlement as most feminists don't want the actual equality they want what so many people call "easy mode" lifestyle. The glitz the glam and the money without any of the actual work or accountability. Let alone the fact that like 60% of women over inflate their self value to a point that its a joke to even ask them what their dream guy is. As often the dream guy is a top 10% guy. Yet the women who are chasing after prince charming have ZERO actual traits that make them a top 10% gal. MANY women and girls think guys only thing they do is think with their meat.
And thats the ideology of guys who want to pump and dump. NOT the ones who are going to keep you around. Which is part of why feminism gets such a rough reputation with GUYS is most of feminist ideology is of that stereotypical prick asshole guy and then take that narcissistic idea and paste it to all men. Add on the whole women are suppose to be strong and independent all the time. Leaves guys to ask "Then why the hell do you need us then?"
Which leads to my final point which is feminism in its tirade to try and level the playing field has done far more harm to what it means to be female than it has to benefit. More men fear and or want nothing to do with women more than ever. It REALLY hasn't helped the fact that there is enormous bias towards mothers in marriages. Which has made the whole feminism and feminist theory kinda snow ball and has made a really radioactive environment societal wise.
Its no longer men have to show why they are fit to take care of the wife and kids, it has become women have to show they are qualified to be proper mothers who will be there to support the husband. Feminism has instead of finding equality has just 180'ed how first world society looks at relationships.
The dating market is no longer Sexy girl = Highest dating market value. Its smart, sharp guy who happens to be wealthy and or smart. That defines the quality in this dating atmosphere. Looks are now a thing for many plus rather than a must.
Feminism in the US has to have different priorities than in other countries. As far as I can tell, feminism *does* care about women's issues overseas of course, but we hear more about domestic stuff because they are behavior changes that we have to implement in daily life.
I can send money to a women's shelter overseas *and* I can tell my peers that rape jokes aren't cool. Different countries are in different places in the fight for equality, but that doesn't mean we have to only focus on one issue around the world.
And don't think that child brides are only an overseas thing, child marriages are legal in the US last time I checked. There's a *lot* of work to be done domestically.
And as for feminists being "man haters"... Not all men. Feminists don't hate all men. They're just tired of men feeling entitled to their bodies. They're specifically talking about the men who are predators and sexists and there are enough men like that to make women understandably distrustful of men.
If we want feminists to not be "man-haters" we need to get our shit together enough that we don't have 81% of women and 41% of men experiencing sexual violence in their lifetime! (source: www. nsvrc. org/.../criminal-victimization-2018), and 65% of male victims were victimized by other men (source: www. google. com/.../)
And all the "useless" feminism people seem to be complaining about, like toxic masculinity, benefit men as well! If we reduce toxic masculinity, there will be less expectation for men to be strong and stoic. That lack of expectation for men to "tough it out" will make it more likely for them to seek medical attention and mental health services which will reduce male death. If we reduce toxic masculinity, there will be less expectation that men are inept with kids, which will improve men's ability to get custody of their kids.
Feminism helps both men and women, and domestic feminism is still important.
Also, I suspect you might've picked too broad of a topic for your school project. Might I suggest narrowing it to *just* the negative effects of the one child policy *or* the practice of child marriages both foreign and domestic? It's hard to write a meaningful paper about huge nebulous topics, which I think is what your prof might have been trying to say.
Moedern Feminism is a force of destruction. Few if anybody disagrees with equal opportunity for all people, regardless of sex, race, etc, etc... And there has been a great deal of work to make sure opportunity is getting distributed equally and that work continues. But modern 'feminism' is now a force for evil. Not only are women equal to men in opportunity, they are better, under modern feminism. It's fallen into misandry, delusion and hatred. To where, now, men are creatures to be loathed, taken advantage of and used. Men are now disposable and it's better if women become men in the world, do male roles to the exclusion of as many men as possible. And like most destructive leftist forces, it requires abandonment of reason and runs on pure emotion and that emotion is anger, rage, hate. There is no good logic that supports that women are better off becoming like men in every way to the disregard of less than half the species. The is no logid that supports the notion, 'we don't need men, but (some of us) want men.' Nature didn't make us that way, we depend on each other and we do better when our natural roles are fulfilled. What has this all led to? Well the stats look really bad for women (and men, but worse for women). Less than half of women in the US will get married in their live time. The happiness quotient for women are at its lowest since it was first tracked in 1970 and continues to trend down. 30% of all families are now single parent households with the mother being the single parent in most cases. And this is an odd one, but unmarried female sexual activity is at its highest point in history, while at the same time male sexual activity is at its lowest point since this data was being recorded. (If your trying to figure out the math, it's actually not that hard. Most women are rotating through the same small group of men, you're all sharing the same guys over and over again). And last, there are more women than men. The percentage is about 2% women over men. Now if you think that's a low percentage, your right except that in real numbers that's more than 7 million more women than men. Yeah, modern feminism, is a destructive, shallowly cloaked marxist force, evil in its philosophy. I wouldn't date a feminist on a dare. If I want to be miserable, I can find a more tolerable misery.
Feminism is merely another ideological doctrine, as all ideological doctrine bases its belief on dichotomic thinking we/they. In which we are the perfect and just constantly martyrs and they are the evil, constantly slayers. That is, separation and tribalism. Divide, identify an enemy, and exalt your group as the superior one. As all ideological doctrines are dogmatic like religion from they derive, and woe to go against their dogmas. It is heresy! It is unacceptable! You're a monster! You hate us! And so on… Ideological polarizations that want to kill differences, to impose a single thought… their thought.
Feminism is one of the many manifestations of Marxism. Marxism is a rotten ideology, which led to tens of millions of deaths. It has also ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people, all the inhabitants of the countries where these ideologies have been implemented.
This ideology is toxic to ionizing radiation. The effect does not appear immediately, but also spreads over several generations.
Continuously, when I show the toxic sides of this ideology, there is always the genius on duty who jumps out and says "Eh, but that's not true feminism!", In the same way that every failure of a Marxist regime Marxist intellectual on duty tells you “Eh, but this was not true communism". Besides, every new experiment is another failure. As Angela Merkel said, "If the Germans have failed in making Communism work, nobody will."
Everyone, to this feminism, gives them a little the meaning they want. In fact, we have radical feminism, Marxist feminism, anarchist feminism, liberal feminism, lesbian feminism and, of course, the worst of all, that is intersectional feminism. Where is the problem? That basically all these ideologies always have a common thread. A dogma that unites them. I would call it "mother crap". There is therefore a deep “seed” at the base which allows us to identify a whole within which distinct realities and levels of interpretation can coexist.
At this point, it is legitimate to ask what is the element that unites all forms of feminism. What is it that makes an ideology "feminist"? The answer is simple. It is the false belief that in the history of humanity, woman has always been an oppressed victim and man has always been the privileged executioner.
Feminism, in its very being, is a pseudo-historical form that is based on misandry but passes itself off as "equality". It does not just fight for the rights of women, which I support, they do so by comparing it to a systematic demonization of the male. This happens from the very beginning of the so-called first wave. In the second wave, it becomes obvious. Feminism is nothing but pure misandry.
Unlike other Marxist doctrines, this is more dangerous. Its effects, which are already being seen, will bring society down. It has already happened in the past and it will also happen in the future. When the basic structure of society breaks down, society collapses within a few generations.
What can I think of a movement that hates me? Just all the worst possible.
The part you are missing is that the original feminist movement was usurped by the Red Stockings - a pro-Marxist group of women - who converted or forced out the original leadership and created "radical feminism".
The goal of RadFem is not feminism and not equality, and as you have discovered, they care absolutely nothing about women in the Third World. RadFem's goal is the complete destruction of marriage and male-female relationships. This isn't a secret - Feminist leaders have stated that goal in public and written about it publicly many times.
And while they are using Feminism as a cover, the reason for this goal isn't really Feminist at all. Marxism teachings acknowledge that a free, capitalist country is too powerful and robust to be converted to Marxism. Instead, the entire society must be completely destroyed, and the people made completely dependent on the government, so that enough people will vote for Marxism when it is put forth as the great answer to all problems, if we just vote away all of our rights and give the government total power.
Feminism doesn't care about the women in the Third World because there's no real power there. 8t only cares about obtaining First World power. It doesn't care about First World women either, except to the extent that they can convince you to vote against your own best interests to give the government more of your power. Feminism has made generations of women unhappy - many are outright miserable and terrified of being alone, and miserable thinking of having to work for another 30 years or more. Record numbers of women are on antidepressants and have diagnosed mental health issues.
Feminism today is about undermining the nuclear family and weakening First World society so that we beg for Marxism to save us. Then we can all be equally dirt poor and have no ability to improve our situation. Just like what happened in every country that has ever tried it.
First of all, anyone thinking they are oppressed in America is foolish. Like the video I saw of 2 girls at (Princeton I believe) screaming at their sociology teacher about how oppressed they are. Anyone attending an Ivy League school is arguably privileged not oppressed.
Feminism is a dumpster fire and has been since day one.
These spoiled women claim to be fighting for equality but they’re really fighting for special privileges for women. I don’t see any of them demanding to have to register with Selective Service when they’re 18 or fighting for the right to be drafted. I don’t see any of them demanding women be held to the same physical fitness standards on physical fitness tests as men in the military or as part of the hiring process for police and fire departments. I don’t see any of these feminists demanding female criminals receive the same sentence for the same crime as men when prior record and mitigating factors are taken into account. I don’t see any of these women demanding affirmative action for women be eliminated and demanding they compete on a level playing field with men for employment. I don’t see any feminists demanding jail time for women who slap men on grounds that’s it’s every bit domestic violence as when a man hits a woman.
It’s hard to take someone seriously who thinks painting their face with menstrual in protest will get people to listen to them.
As a fourth generation feminist, whose great-grandmother went from dirt poor to rather well-off (aka associating with multi millionaires) on her own hook as her husband died and she never remarried - let me be blunt.
Real feminism died in the 1970s.
It's why you have all these bloated loud-mouthed "feminists" today - screaming about garbage because they now live a soft sheltered life and wouldn't understand hardship unless they're tossed into jail - in western countries doing fuck all that is actually beneficial. Body positivity? That wasn't feminists that ideology is a leftist thing.
Who have their hands out screaming I want this, I should have that job, etc. because I've breasts.
Who act and dress like whores and/or sluts screaming about my body and then get upset when they are sexualized, viewed as nothing more like a c*nt, etc. REAL FEMINISM was AGAINST dressing & acting like a prostitute, AGAINST sexualization... today's feminism is full of IDIOTS who are BEHIND THE TIMES.
Who give not one shit about women who are suffering either as single moms or low income in western societies or women suffering in other countries.
That's what feminism is today. A pathetic, in many ways useless, mockery.
The only place AUTHENTIC feminism exists is in eastern European countries and in the handful of women rights lawyers, activists, etc. in eastern & third world countries - many of whom are threatened, jailed, etc. The rest of "feminism" is a waste.
I do not agree with you. Partially because USA is by no means up to a "First world country" standard when it comes to Female rights and partially because people are not necessarily required to champion their beliefs in every country and in every area. It is a noble goal to try end discrimination against women around the world but that is not the same as being concerned about discrimination within your own community.
To make an analogy, say you support the monetary prosperity of your community/country. Does that mean you have to extend the same goal to the rest of the world? It is unfair to expect the average feminist to make such a big leap even though we can appreciate and applaud those who still do.
Personally I find that the biggest problem with Feminism is that people dont understand why actual Feminists supports what they do. Lets take obesity for example, it is currently one of the biggest health emergencies in the developed world so it is a good cause to focus on.
What is some of the biggest causes of obesity? Bad behaviors and bad emotions. How do you help people overcome them? By making them feel better about themselves and break bad habits (preferably by replacing them with good ones). Just reassuring obese people that they are still appreciated is a small price to pay for saving countless lives and medical costs.
I find it exhausting to needlessly tie yourself to a particular brand or idea. When you do that, you assume the role of people who came before you and after you. A feminist can mean many things. Be yourself and don't assume that people think the way you do or believe in the same things just because there is a specific title for an ideology. From what I have seen, feminists seek control. They enjoy talking about how a woman has the right to abort a baby. So, if people who don't abort want to label themselves with the people that do they immediately look bad. Don't be this way. You are making better choices in steering clear of the baggage that comes along with a predetermined ideology and setting yourself up to giving into a cause and thus limiting your natural freedom of making choices for yourself according to your beliefs. I don;t particularly like getting mentally farmed and questioned about my beliefs because that leaves people with the notion that they can influence my own personal decisions. And sometimes they even believe they have the right to stand in my way.
Feminism is just another word for sexism against men and boys, no matter what country you want to look at. All of these poor women and girls in 3rd world countries you talk of, have you actually considered what their men are also going through? I'm not talking about the top 1% of men in those societies, I'm talking about that little girl that was sold off in a child marriage, have you considered what the life of her brother consists of? If you was given the choice on who's life to live between them, you'd choose the little girl. As horrible as being a child bride is, it's still better than being a forced child solider that's been drugged up and forced to kill innocent people before you're even a teenager, assuming you're not one of the innocent ones who are tied up and set on fire as they same time they rape your sister.
That's what feminism does, it blinds people to men's experiences as being anything less than privileged. There one and only one reason why you don't call yourself one, and it's got nothing to do with your belief in equality, and everything to do with the fact men do not want to date women that think just like you.
I think a lot of people misunderstand feminism. Its sort of like hating on a religion because there are a few terrorist groups who carry out their terrorism in the name of a religious group. Obviously that doesn’t really have a reflection on the religion but the crazy people.
feminism can be like this, feminism is ensuring the rights of females are protected and do not go backwards, you may say it is not necessary at certain parts of the world. The question is... well why was it necessary in the first place? It was necessary in the first place because until they were forced to respect women they chose not to. And let me assure you there is nothing stopping it from regressing backwards. The fact that a lot of men stilll don’t respect feminism is in itself should inform you it is necessary.
a lot of people have confirmation bias, which means you have decided what you want to believe and you find evidence to support that, and misinterpret evidence which goes against your belief. I believe a lot of people think what they want about feminism. Because it suits their ego, they like to believe it is this or that even though for whatever reason.
if you believe in the equality and continued equality of women you are a feminist whether you are a male or woman. Or whether you chose to label yourself as one or not.
people add all these fictitious attitudes like it’s man hating or this or that, no feminism is not those things. There are women who hate men. And those women might also be feminists, but the two are not correlated. People don’t like to see this because it goes against their confirmation bias, and it’s a bit tiring having to explain the difference to people.
I think that feminists are extremely confused and backward in their thinking.
To my mind and that of a growing number of people, feminism is old hat, its no longer relevant.
Why?
Because we have moved on from this centuries old issue and the modern view point is that we are all equals regardless of gender, race, orientation etc.
To be still banging the gong of feminism and simultaneously some how failing to grasp the simple premise that you cannot be an advocate of equality while you are excluding people on the basis of their gender and 'you' do, constantly.
Is there a place for feminism in the 3rd world?
Maybe?
But what would be the point of that?
It doesn't make any sense.
Imagine this in terms of the invention of the wheel and suppose as it is often portrayed humourously that the wheels started out square then a breakthrough came, more sides is more better and we now have the octagonal wheel (this is feminism).
Why would anyone want the 3rd world to adopt the octagonal wheel in a world which already has the round wheel?
You are living in the fucking dark ages and telling people you are enlightened.
Just stop it.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
in trynoI say its all a crock pot of 💩. All of these groups out there advertising that they are fighting for equal this and that are in fact are prejudice to many directions. There not working towards equal anything, because if they were, it wouldn't be Black Lives Matter (when taken by a white officer with opportunity to gain high attention, Feminist (treat us equa job C C Cl ) Stop Asian hate, LBGTQ...
How is focusing on one group with shared demographics being equal about anything. Many of these people want to force a belief and be recognized , but at the same time think anyone with opposing views shouldn't be allowed to have those views. The same freedom if speech that one has is the same freedom of speech that the other has too. Its like why is it ok for when Blacks denounce and stereotype cops, whites, or pretty much anyone its ok, but when its the other way around its discrimination. Is it not racist to behave as words being ok for only 1 group of Humans to use. Sign (Words only Blacks can use) Sign (Black only drinking fountain). I see no difference. Why does someone that commits a "hate" crime get a harsher sentence than as opposed to just crime. So humans life means less if discrimination wasn't the motivation. Again promoting discrimination and segregation.
Despite any of that, I wouldn't consider what your describing as "Feminist" anything. Those things dont just happen to women and children... And the acts against humanity aren't just carried by men.. It occurs all over by any type of person,
Not needed in the western world, and as anything that hasn't any real purpose, it's trying to made up "fights" to keep existing. And it now turned into a man hating machine, filled with hate, sexism. Modern feminists are now just plainly showing how much they want to hurt men, and anyone not following their cult. Their goal is to identify They have an ego the size of a moon, and consider that women should be given everything, but give nothing. That women should have rights, but no responsibilities (which was funny to see when they talked about including women into the draft), and that they should lead, be above everyone. They claim to want equality, but seek it only wherever it suits them. And don't ask them to fight for equality where it's needed, they prefer staying here safely and fight against people who won't fight back. We also won't mention that intersectionality bullshit, or as I'd like to call it, the "victimization contest". Looking to identify who can cry more, and separate people by sex, color and disabilities. Who will check the most requirement? Who will blame the others more?
A movement for equality that became a crusade against men and responsibilities.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I’m not married but my mom knows I can and will be good father/husband one day. Why do I have to be a feminist supporter to show girls respect or lower my gaze and not ogle at them? I want women to be good at sports or have their own businesses and be strong minded. See, that’s a very simple human concept for others to have human rights, why do I need to follow another ism-based ideology? The feminists I’ve encountered at rallies, on sites like GAG to even TA’s at university where one TA basically called me sexist because I didn’t cite my work correctly and thought I was a male pig. Really? I called her out on that where I could have informed the department of the university but didn’t. Feminists have destroyed female minds, feminists have destroyed the family unit for individualism without borders. That’s why I started to gravitate to religion and God’s words, I needed something to spark inside of me for change and direction of what this life means. People may read this and not agree with this and that’s fine. I don’t agree with the LGBTQ constant forcing of acceptance meanwhile they demonize religions, I don’t accept capitalism, communism or socialism, I don’t accept the illegal state of Israel, I don’t support feminism. This world is in shambles and when the time comes people will realize the truth was right in front of them and I won’t bother saying where, it’s something people tend to reject very quickly nowadays.
Why does feminism have to exist? Like... it kinda seems like us girls just want something to argument, I haven't seen any discrimination against women lately.
Another thing I noticed, perhaps coincidentally, is that there is a lot of music where girls are like "We don't need men, they think we can't do anything, but girls rule" and the women are bashing on the dudes, whereas I've never heard a song where the roles are reversed.
I think the best way to get rid of all things similar to this (racism, discrimination, etc) is to just stop talking about it.
OK there's a few things here pertaining to your feminism. Let's being with your body choice. You feminist pretend to care about children protecting them pedophile marriages and so on while at the same time you advocate for murdering children aka your body choice. If you actually cared about children your body choice would be the right choice which is having the child you were responsible for making. You're also leaving out the fact that just as many women are pedophiles as there are men, the only difference is women get a free pass. And as far as your claims of baby girls being killed because parents only want sons, guess who's choice to abort their girl baby's was? Here is a hint, where in the world are men allowed to make paternity decisions? What's that you say, men aren't allowed to make paternity choices over women? I think that should answer your question. And you feminist claim MGTOW has no bases.
The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29% were abused by their fathers. And of children who died at the hands of one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.8% were killed by their mothers, whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.
The fact that someone somewhere else has it worse than you doesn't take away your own struggles.
Women in the west can't realistically do anything about the injustice in third world countries. But just because someone somewhere in a third world country is struggling more so than you are, it doesn't take away your right to also fight against whatever injustice committed against you.
That would be stupid and self-sabotaging, and inadvertently play right into the hands of your oppressors who already love to employ whataboutism with the intent to dismiss and silence your voice.
Your duty is to fight your own battles, kicking down other people who are also struggling is not productive, if anything, it aids your enemies.
As with everything, the extremists spoil it for everyone.
even in the ‘liberated’ west, there are still some big hurdles to overcome, however the important stuff is diverted due to rampant extremists within the feminist movement, wanting gender neutral grammar, putting people’s backs up and diverting from the good work of more women in boardrooms by merit.
The Extremists also act as a barrier to other countries event contemplating greater equality, they point at these extremists and go why should we.
As a father with a daughter, I want her to have every chance she has, I want her to have an equal chance as any other person male or female with her qualifications. I also want her to have a fair shot at a career in whatever she chooses, recognising some are naturally harder for women than men.
